VIC Coil

Gunther Rattay

RE: VIC Coil
« Reply #25, on October 26th, 2011, 01:20 AM »Last edited on October 26th, 2011, 01:21 AM by bussi04
Quote from dirtwill on October 11th, 2011, 06:28 PM
Quote from bussi04 on October 11th, 2011, 10:24 AM
Phil,

I agree, for inner secondary and outer chokes I used pie divided pancake style windings. due to the concentric structure of the bobbins special care must be taken at the wire entry points because there the complete voltage difference occurs. so I think my next transformer will have entry and exit points for a winding at opposite sides.

I calculated windings space volume needed with a selfmade excel sheet. for winding efficiency I took 98%. that showed to be a much too optimistic point of view.

In the German version of Wikipedia I found an article about different winding techniques and the technique I used was called "wild winding" on the opposite of orthocyclic winding technique (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spulenwickeltechnik).

so I read and found out in practical terms that 73% winding efficiency for wild windings is more what can be expected.

It´s time for my next more elaborated VIC,

bussi04
I don't understand "pie divided pancake style windings"??
It´s exactly the way as shown in the previous post from firepinto.


bussi04

~Russ

RE: VIC Coil
« Reply #26, on October 26th, 2011, 02:18 AM »
Quote from firepinto on October 25th, 2011, 07:45 PM
So I've been practicing Google Sketchup latley..:P  I started a 3D model of VIC bobbins that are detailed on a couple .pdf files by Dynodon on another forum.  I hope that is fine. :)  I converted all the measurements to millimeters for RepRapability. Yes new words.  :D I would like to make another model(s) that fits more available ferrite cores also.  Next task is to try to design some kind of structure or scaffolding to make it printable.  Is there any other features or grooves that would be necessary?  

Sketchup file is zipped and pdf files are all attached. :)

Nate
good work nate!

also just so you know those measurements should from Stan's orgnail.

if the bobbin works out, i may ask to try to print an extra one  for  me to try? i may just make some also... got the mini lathe!


looking forward to it.

thanks! ~Russ


firepinto

RE: VIC Coil
« Reply #27, on October 26th, 2011, 06:26 AM »
Quote from Rwg42985 on October 26th, 2011, 02:18 AM
Quote from firepinto on October 25th, 2011, 07:45 PM
So I've been practicing Google Sketchup latley..:P  I started a 3D model of VIC bobbins that are detailed on a couple .pdf files by Dynodon on another forum.  I hope that is fine. :)  I converted all the measurements to millimeters for RepRapability. Yes new words.  :D I would like to make another model(s) that fits more available ferrite cores also.  Next task is to try to design some kind of structure or scaffolding to make it printable.  Is there any other features or grooves that would be necessary?  

Sketchup file is zipped and pdf files are all attached. :)

Nate
good work nate!

also just so you know those measurements should from Stan's orgnail.

if the bobbin works out, i may ask to try to print an extra one  for  me to try? i may just make some also... got the mini lathe!


looking forward to it.

thanks! ~Russ
If it works out I'm going to print a bunch of them!  Ill gladly send ya some. :) Having a good supply of these things should help figuring out what needs to be wound onto them.

Nate

~Russ

RE: VIC Coil
« Reply #28, on October 26th, 2011, 07:20 AM »
Quote from firepinto on October 26th, 2011, 06:26 AM
Quote from Rwg42985 on October 26th, 2011, 02:18 AM
Quote from firepinto on October 25th, 2011, 07:45 PM
So I've been practicing Google Sketchup latley..:P  I started a 3D model of VIC bobbins that are detailed on a couple .pdf files by Dynodon on another forum.  I hope that is fine. :)  I converted all the measurements to millimeters for RepRapability. Yes new words.  :D I would like to make another model(s) that fits more available ferrite cores also.  Next task is to try to design some kind of structure or scaffolding to make it printable.  Is there any other features or grooves that would be necessary?  

Sketchup file is zipped and pdf files are all attached. :)

Nate
good work nate!

also just so you know those measurements should from Stan's orgnail.

if the bobbin works out, i may ask to try to print an extra one  for  me to try? i may just make some also... got the mini lathe!


looking forward to it.

thanks! ~Russ
If it works out I'm going to print a bunch of them!  Ill gladly send ya some. :) Having a good supply of these things should help figuring out what needs to be wound onto them.

Nate
That would bbe sweet!

thanks! ~Russ
RE: VIC Coil
« Reply #29, on October 29th, 2011, 07:18 AM »
h20, what are you using for your switching device? you have it labeled "MTA" on your diagram?

thanks, ~Russ

h2opower

RE: VIC Coil
« Reply #30, on October 29th, 2011, 01:44 PM »

I corrected the wave form one should expect to see with this set up on the scope with the H11D1's working correctly to control the MTA. Remember this is a pulse by pulse analysis with respect to time looking at what happens with each and every pulse being applied to the system. Also note that the first negative pulse under the green will not be there in the initial pulse for choke 1 hasn't induced choke 2 yet. I just put it there for ease of understanding as if I left it off someone would ask why is there no magenta colored pulse under one of the green pulses.

@Russ it's a MTA55A rated at 1800v from: http://luhuanping.cn.alibaba.com/ but note two SCR's will also do the job just not as efficiently.

h2opower
RE: VIC Coil
« Reply #31, on October 29th, 2011, 01:52 PM »

I corrected the wave form one should expect to see with this set up on the scope with the H11D1's working correctly to control the MTA. Remember this is a pulse by pulse analysis with respect to time looking at what happens with each and every pulse being applied to the system. Also note that the first negative pulse under the green will not be there in the initial pulse for choke 1 hasn't induced choke 2 yet. I just put it there for ease of understanding as if I left it off someone would ask why is there no magenta colored pulse under one of the green pulses.

@ Russ, it's a MTA55A rated for 1800 volts from a company in china called Greegoo http://greegoo.en.busytrade.com/ Note that two SCR's will also work fine it just won't be as efficient.

h2opower
RE: VIC Coil
« Reply #32, on October 29th, 2011, 01:54 PM »
Quote from Rwg42985 on October 29th, 2011, 07:18 AM
h20, what are you using for your switching device? you have it labeled "MTA" on your diagram?

thanks, ~Russ

I corrected the wave form one should expect to see with this set up on the scope with the H11D1's working correctly to control the MTA. Remember this is a pulse by pulse analysis with respect to time looking at what happens with each and every pulse being applied to the system. Also note that the first negative pulse under the green will not be there in the initial pulse for choke 1 hasn't induced choke 2 yet. I just put it there for ease of understanding as if I left it off someone would ask why is there no magenta colored pulse under one of the green pulses.

@ Russ, it's a MTA55A rated for 1800 volts from a company in china called Greegoo http://greegoo.en.busytrade.com/ Note that two SCR's will also work fine it just won't be as efficient.

h2opower
RE: VIC Coil
« Reply #33, on October 29th, 2011, 01:54 PM »
Quote from Rwg42985 on October 29th, 2011, 07:18 AM
h20, what are you using for your switching device? you have it labeled "MTA" on your diagram?

thanks, ~Russ
@ Russ, it's a MTA55A rated for 1800 volts from a company in china called Greegoo http://greegoo.en.busytrade.com/ Note that two SCR's will also work fine it just won't be as efficient.

h2opower

firepinto

RE: VIC Coil
« Reply #34, on October 31st, 2011, 03:40 PM »Last edited on October 31st, 2011, 03:42 PM by firepinto
First ever test print of the VIC bobbins:
[attachment=413][attachment=414][attachment=415][attachment=416][attachment=417]
You can see there is still some support structure on the large bobbin.  Also most of the grooves still have support in them.  This support was created automatically by the Skienforge application.  It worked great, but is a real pain to remove.  I will be designing a more simple support that can be removed easier.  
[attachment=418]
I had to do a fair amount of filing to get the pieces to fit each other.  The tolerances will have to be adjusted since the printer doesn't create a perfect smooth circle.  This took 5+ hours to print, most of the time was ate up by printing the support.  It slows down to print supports.  I'm sure there are many more settings I can tweak.  


The PLA plastic is very strong, but can shatter and shoot your eye out when breaking off the structure. lol  I think it will be strong enough to wind one choke with out worrying about the bobbin flexing much.  

Nate


~Russ

RE: VIC Coil
« Reply #35, on November 1st, 2011, 09:59 AM »
Quote from firepinto on October 31st, 2011, 03:40 PM
First ever test print of the VIC bobbins:

You can see there is still some support structure on the large bobbin.  Also most of the grooves still have support in them.  This support was created automatically by the Skienforge application.  It worked great, but is a real pain to remove.  I will be designing a more simple support that can be removed easier.  

I had to do a fair amount of filing to get the pieces to fit each other.  The tolerances will have to be adjusted since the printer doesn't create a perfect smooth circle.  This took 5+ hours to print, most of the time was ate up by printing the support.  It slows down to print supports.  I'm sure there are many more settings I can tweak.  


The PLA plastic is very strong, but can shatter and shoot your eye out when breaking off the structure. lol  I think it will be strong enough to wind one choke with out worrying about the bobbin flexing much.  

Nate
THAT IS SO COOL NATE!

nice work... wonder if i can lath out those gaps?

cool stuff man!

~Russ

firepinto

RE: VIC Coil
« Reply #36, on November 1st, 2011, 10:22 AM »
Quote from Rwg42985 on November 1st, 2011, 09:59 AM
Quote from firepinto on October 31st, 2011, 03:40 PM
First ever test print of the VIC bobbins:

You can see there is still some support structure on the large bobbin.  Also most of the grooves still have support in them.  This support was created automatically by the Skienforge application.  It worked great, but is a real pain to remove.  I will be designing a more simple support that can be removed easier.  

I had to do a fair amount of filing to get the pieces to fit each other.  The tolerances will have to be adjusted since the printer doesn't create a perfect smooth circle.  This took 5+ hours to print, most of the time was ate up by printing the support.  It slows down to print supports.  I'm sure there are many more settings I can tweak.  


The PLA plastic is very strong, but can shatter and shoot your eye out when breaking off the structure. lol  I think it will be strong enough to wind one choke with out worrying about the bobbin flexing much.  

Nate
THAT IS SO COOL NATE!

nice work... wonder if i can lath out those gaps?

cool stuff man!

~Russ
I think you could if ya have a tool that small.  Only problem is this one has a slight oval shape from my printer still giving me some grief. I broke my little modified screwdriver I made for digging the stuff out.
 I have 5 pounds of white PLA on order to make improved versions.  It is really cool, drawings and pictures don't compare to holding one in your hand. :) Lol its bigger in real life I think.  I hope to have a new sketchup done and tes printed by the end of the weekend.  

Nate

~Russ

RE: VIC Coil
« Reply #37, on November 1st, 2011, 11:14 AM »
Quote from firepinto on November 1st, 2011, 10:22 AM
Quote from Rwg42985 on November 1st, 2011, 09:59 AM
Quote from firepinto on October 31st, 2011, 03:40 PM
First ever test print of the VIC bobbins:

You can see there is still some support structure on the large bobbin.  Also most of the grooves still have support in them.  This support was created automatically by the Skienforge application.  It worked great, but is a real pain to remove.  I will be designing a more simple support that can be removed easier.  

I had to do a fair amount of filing to get the pieces to fit each other.  The tolerances will have to be adjusted since the printer doesn't create a perfect smooth circle.  This took 5+ hours to print, most of the time was ate up by printing the support.  It slows down to print supports.  I'm sure there are many more settings I can tweak.  


The PLA plastic is very strong, but can shatter and shoot your eye out when breaking off the structure. lol  I think it will be strong enough to wind one choke with out worrying about the bobbin flexing much.  

Nate
THAT IS SO COOL NATE!

nice work... wonder if i can lath out those gaps?

cool stuff man!

~Russ
I think you could if ya have a tool that small.  Only problem is this one has a slight oval shape from my printer still giving me some grief. I broke my little modified screwdriver I made for digging the stuff out.
 I have 5 pounds of white PLA on order to make improved versions.  It is really cool, drawings and pictures don't compare to holding one in your hand. :) Lol its bigger in real life I think.  I hope to have a new sketchup done and tes printed by the end of the weekend.  

Nate
sweet bro! good luck,

~Russ

BAYLE

RE: VIC Coil
« Reply #38, on November 4th, 2011, 03:36 PM »
Hi, I am new on the forum.
After having traversed the forum, I come to fall on the thread « coil VIC ».
I wish to know if the wire in stainless steel 430 is obligatory for the 1st choke ? Even if Stanley Meyer describes it in its patents, because in Europe, this wire out of stainless is untraceable and not manufactured. Thank you for your illumination…

KevinW_EnhancedLiving


firepinto

RE: VIC Coil
« Reply #40, on November 9th, 2011, 07:26 PM »
I just created my first thingiverse.com ... thing. :cool:  The VIC bobbins are now thing #13463 and the whole world can print them. :D  
I'm falling behind on building my own printed supports for the next bobbin design.  The rest of my year is going to have very little spare time.  I figured I better post the first version now.  
I also invited all of the 3D printer community to come and join us. :)

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:13463

~Russ

RE: VIC Coil
« Reply #41, on November 10th, 2011, 07:27 AM »
Quote from firepinto on November 9th, 2011, 07:26 PM
I just created my first thingiverse.com ... thing. :cool:  The VIC bobbins are now thing #13463 and the whole world can print them. :D  
I'm falling behind on building my own printed supports for the next bobbin design.  The rest of my year is going to have very little spare time.  I figured I better post the first version now.  
I also invited all of the 3D printer community to come and join us. :)

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:13463
very Nice Nate! so cool! hope they all come and join the effort!  looks good! ~Russ

Oneminde

RE: VIC Coil
« Reply #42, on November 10th, 2011, 10:12 AM »
Good afternoon.

Here is a reply i did just recently; http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=170&pid=1682#pid1682

When it comes to data on the VIC, this is still being performed and together with replications of the electronics that go together with this transformer.

In order to help you guy's, I will re post what Tony wrote regarding this transformer:

"I am going to attempt to explain how Stan split the water molecule with low currents. Ok first thing, basic electrolysis uses current to slit water by using electron collision. In Stan's system he only wanted to use voltage and no current, which we all know by now. Well I've been digging deep into what Stan says in his lectures and memos. This is what I've come up with and it all make sense with what Stan says. Stan talks about the molecule and its "Ground State". Theground state of a system is its lowest-energy state. The energy of the ground state is known as the zero-point energy of the system. Basically the ground state refers to the electrons being in their correct orbit making them stable. Well Stan's talks about taking the molecule from ground state to excited state. Excitation is an elevation in energy level above an arbitrary baseline energy state. In physics there is a specific technical definition for energy level which is often associated with an atom being excited to an excited state. This means to make the electrons go from their correct orbit up to the next orbit. Like in the water molecule you have 2 orbital shells and the 1st orbit is the "K" shell and the 2nd orbit is the "L" shell. So to make the molecule go from ground state to exited state, the "L" shell electrons will  be ejected to what is know in electronics as the conduction band, which is just an imaginary location outside the orbit of the molecule. Once you have less than 8 electrons occupying the "L", you will then have the 2 electrons from the "K" orbit jumping into the "L" orbit. This will continue till all electrons are in the conduction band and the "K" and "L" orbits are empty. Once the orbits are empty there is obviously no covalent bonding between the Hydrogen and Oxygen atoms at this point.

Now I will explain how this can be achieved. The key to Stan's system is Harmonic Oscillation. The LC circuit has to be made to give a specific Harmonic Oscillation Wave Function. This wave function will mimic a particle equal to that of the electrons. When the electrons are hit will this wave function signal, they will go from ground state into excitation state. If you stop the signal, after a short time period the electrons will emit photons and then return to ground state. This is why Stan say pulse for X amount of time and then gate and gas will be produces for another X time period. The gate will allow the photon energy to be released and this photon energy will continue to produce more gas and allow the water to go back to ground state.

The Harmonic Oscillation Wave Function is very similar to an AM signal. The signal has to be the correct band of frequencies in order to split the water molecule. Puharich gives these specific frequency bands ( 3.98kHz, 7.96kHz, 15.95kHz, and 31.84kHz, which these frequencies are all sub-harmonics of 63.68kHz ) need to split the molecule. I've noticed in Stan's setup he uses chokes in around 1H each and if you calculate the capacitance of a single tube it will be around 1.6nF, by using L= 1H and C= 1.6nF, the resonant frequency will be 3.98kHz....is this just coincidence? I think NOT. Research Meyer and Puharich's system and you will see that these two system are very much alike. Here are some references on what I've just explained, research it and you will see that this is the way it was done."

http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,2121.0.html



~Russ

RE: VIC Coil
« Reply #43, on November 28th, 2011, 06:23 PM »
updated some of my stuff and also added Stan's to the spread sheet. see tabs at bottom.

everything that i have now on  my 1/4" core round bobbin is in red at to bottom of the sheet.  

i'm working on warping the new VIC bobbins now.

thanks, ~Russ

Davecbwfc

RE: VIC Coil
« Reply #44, on November 28th, 2011, 08:50 PM »
hey guys, this is my first time posting here. i'd like to share some of my experiance with the vic. The core i'm using is way bigger than Stan's. I've had some interesting results lately that I could use some input on.
I made a few video's this is the important one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYtd8cbAlU0

Anyway, Since my coils are so large (around 6 henrys for secondary and both chokes each)  I made a small one inch test cell because i needed a much smaller capacitance. Voltage at the cell was between 290 and 330 volts ac.  If I leave the cell on for a few minutes gas production doubles and triples which still isn't very much. voltage also raises with gas production. I really want to use a pll to keep it at resonance because its really really touchy. One of the most interesting things I observed was that the gas seemed to be charged. The positive alligator clip is half way out of the water and some of the bubbles are attracted towards it and some are pushed away! after i turn everything off, a much larger plume of gas is released from the tubes. I had the circuit on for an hour or so, after it runs for a few minutes I can adjust the frequency for a higher voltage and gas production increases as well. I probably adjusted it 20 times in an hours for better results. what are your thoughts? do you think this production is just electrolysis?



Muxar

RE: VIC Coil
« Reply #45, on November 28th, 2011, 11:59 PM »
[attachment=541][attachment=542][attachment=543][attachment=544][attachment=545]
Hello guys!
This is the cheapest and esaiest way i found of replicating this vic plastic thing.
Is not the coolest one but can help geting ideas for people that has no acces to machinery. It´s a pity that my microwave transformer core is useless for the vic,because is fitting really tigth.

~Russ

RE: VIC Coil
« Reply #46, on November 29th, 2011, 02:58 AM »
Quote from Muxar on November 28th, 2011, 11:59 PM
Hello guys!
This is the cheapest and esaiest way i found of replicating this vic plastic thing.
Is not the coolest one but can help geting ideas for people that has no acces to machinery. It´s a pity that my microwave transformer core is useless for the vic,because is fitting really tigth.
nicely done!!!!

also you can try the core! but i'm having no luck getting the desired results.

but don't let that stop you! give it a go!

good work to all!!! thanks for sharing!

~Russ

waqas148

RE: VIC Coil
« Reply #47, on December 7th, 2011, 02:36 PM »Last edited on December 7th, 2011, 03:17 PM by waqas148
Quote from Davecbwfc on November 28th, 2011, 08:50 PM
hey guys, this is my first time posting here. i'd like to share some of my experiance with the vic. The core i'm using is way bigger than Stan's. I've had some interesting results lately that I could use some input on.
I made a few video's this is the important one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYtd8cbAlU0

Anyway, Since my coils are so large (around 6 henrys for secondary and both chokes each)  I made a small one inch test cell because i needed a much smaller capacitance. Voltage at the cell was between 290 and 330 volts ac.  If I leave the cell on for a few minutes gas production doubles and triples which still isn't very much. voltage also raises with gas production. I really want to use a pll to keep it at resonance because its really really touchy. One of the most interesting things I observed was that the gas seemed to be charged. The positive alligator clip is half way out of the water and some of the bubbles are attracted towards it and some are pushed away! after i turn everything off, a much larger plume of gas is released from the tubes. I had the circuit on for an hour or so, after it runs for a few minutes I can adjust the frequency for a higher voltage and gas production increases as well. I probably adjusted it 20 times in an hours for better results. what are your thoughts? do you think this production is just electrolysis?
Decrease the primary wire turns and use a thicker guage wire to increase the efficiency of your transformer ;)

I have seen ppl thinking that VIC is some sort of magical transformer.... NO!!!.... come on guys!!! .... After so many years of experience in Transformer design... i can bet that VIC is a simple step-up Power Transformer configuration that is used in UPS sort of devices....Plus Stan Meyer used the same core for his chokes (for better synchronization) which he was using separately with his 8xA circuit... and power came from the mains.
So what is my point????
 Dont expect that VIC will only draw milliamps of current on primary side.... Be realistic.... its should be a power transformer.... capable of supplying at most 100W to the load i-e almost 12v*8.3Amps max on Primary side...(use thicker gauge wire on Primary)
Yes!!! the Load will become minimum when in resonance BUT its about the average power... still the max power delivery could be required to scan a resonance stage or else the dissipation Factor of the VIC will rise and will not be able to start ionization Process.    
E.g: when i rewound Primary of one of my UPS transformer with a thinner gauge to reduce its power consumption from 100W max to around 40W max  ... which failed to light a fluorescent Tube rated at 25W.... why???? because the peak power consumption of tube startup was greater than 40W!!!! its the avg pwr=25W  
I hope i am of some help :)
Peace :)

KevinW_EnhancedLiving


Davecbwfc

RE: VIC Coil
« Reply #49, on December 18th, 2011, 09:34 AM »


Decrease the primary wire turns and use a thicker guage wire to increase the efficiency of your transformer ;)


I have seen ppl thinking that VIC is some sort of magical transformer.... NO!!!.... come on guys!!! .... After so many years of experience in Transformer design... i can bet that VIC is a simple step-up Power Transformer configuration that is used in UPS sort of devices....Plus Stan Meyer used the same core for his chokes (for better synchronization) which he was using separately with his 8xA circuit... and power came from the mains.
So what is my point????
 Dont expect that VIC will only draw milliamps of current on primary side.... Be realistic.... its should be a power transformer.... capable of supplying at most 100W to the load i-e almost 12v*8.3Amps max on Primary side...(use thicker gauge wire on Primary)
Yes!!! the Load will become minimum when in resonance BUT its about the average power... still the max power delivery could be required to scan a resonance stage or else the dissipation Factor of the VIC will rise and will not be able to start ionization Process.    
E.g: when i rewound Primary of one of my UPS transformer with a thinner gauge to reduce its power consumption from 100W max to around 40W max  ... which failed to light a fluorescent Tube rated at 25W.... why???? because the peak power consumption of tube startup was greater than 40W!!!! its the avg pwr=25W  
I hope i am of some help :)
Peace :)[/quote]That is what I did in this setup. I switch out my 400 turn 29 awg primary for a 150 turn 24 awg primary. An important thing to remember is that a water capacitor does not act like real capacitor by itself. The 8XA circuit passes current through the cell and builds some voltage. The multi coil vic is a different procces, maybe it evolved from the 8XA, but if current is passing through the cell it is not possible to build the massive voltage needed for this thing to work.