VIC Coil

KevinW_EnhancedLiving


txqNL

RE: VIC Coil
« Reply #1, on August 27th, 2011, 12:01 PM »
Quote from dirtwill on August 27th, 2011, 07:33 AM
Looking to get started on a VIC... Please post any VIC stuff here. Thanks :)
That is looking very good, where can I buy lol :)


KevinW_EnhancedLiving

RE: VIC Coil
« Reply #2, on August 28th, 2011, 08:11 PM »Last edited on August 28th, 2011, 08:29 PM by KevinW_EnhancedLiving
I am Hearing that This is a more efficient type of VIC



H20power build:http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=92



http://waterfuelcell.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=999
Just found this here...
RE: VIC Coil
« Reply #3, on August 30th, 2011, 02:31 PM »Last edited on August 30th, 2011, 02:50 PM by KevinW_EnhancedLiving
Quoted from:  http://rwgresearch.com/open-projects/stanley-meyers-wfc-tec/wfc-%E2%80%9Cwater-fuel-cell%E2%80%9D/
Here one will find Stan’s VIC next to my test VIC. Once I get things the way I like it I will give out the specs of my VIC to work with the Test Cell and you can try it for your self!



This is an iron core for testing. The finished coil will have a Ferrite core.


This is my VIC bobbin I’m using. Its extremely close to Stan’s original equipment. The main difference is that Stan’s was using a flat core you can in the next photo.





Here one can see how the card fits on to the VIC



Here one can see all the VIC's and cards for the Fuel cell.





Also something totally different, but super efficient :)


Take from here : page 3 - 7
http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Chapter3.pdf
RE: VIC Coil
« Reply #4, on September 4th, 2011, 08:13 AM »
Hey H20, What are the physical components used for the Alternate power/Switching gate?
RE: VIC Coil
« Reply #5, on September 30th, 2011, 02:39 PM »
So Matt and I are thinking about using microwave transformers to get our high voltage. Pulsed by the frequency generator.

I guess after the transformer we should make the bi-filar coil to act as a choke?
 

~Russ

RE: VIC Coil
« Reply #6, on September 30th, 2011, 09:19 PM »Last edited on September 30th, 2011, 09:19 PM by ~Russ/Rwg42985
Quote from dirtwill on September 30th, 2011, 02:39 PM
So Matt and I are thinking about using microwave transformers to get our high voltage. Pulsed by the frequency generator.

I guess after the transformer we should make the bi-filar coil to act as a choke?
Vic coils act in a verry defrent way.

See the high voltage comes from step charging the water cap.

The VIC coil is a step up transformer. But only 12v to 360v it's a 1:30 step up transformer. Then the resonant charging chokes are where the amps are held back and the LCR circuit starts to take over. And the diode is there so the cap dose not discharge and other stuff that is unknown at the  moment...

basically what I'm saying is you don't want to transform 12v to 12000v but let the LRC circuit do it for You.

More later.

~Russ

Gunther Rattay

VIC Coil electrical values
« Reply #7, on October 1st, 2011, 01:15 AM »Last edited on October 26th, 2011, 12:35 AM by bussi04
We are all using different cores.

so core sizes and wire lengths are interesting but not sufficient.

to get a common base for testing it´s necessary to exchange values that are comparable.

so I want to suggest to exchange electrical values like inductance of each coil at a given frequency (i.e. 1 kHz), Al value of the core and Amin for the effective core diameter. also wire diameter or at least RMS amp flow expected are necessary for exchange.

Adding min and max pulsing frequency shooting for and of course primary pulsing voltage range shall be a minimum set of values worth for exchange.

bussi04

KevinW_EnhancedLiving

RE: VIC Coil electrical values
« Reply #8, on October 1st, 2011, 06:43 AM »
Quote from bussi04 on October 1st, 2011, 01:15 AM
so I want to suggest to exchange electrical values like inductance of each coil at a given frequency (i.e. 1 kHz), Al value of the core and Amin for the effective core diameter. also wire diameter or at least RMS amp flow expected are necessary for exchange.

Adding min and max pulsing frequency shooting for and of course primary pulsing voltage range shall be a minimum set of values worth for exchange.
bussi04
I dont think I understood any of that. Please elaborate on your ideas.

Tesla Bi-filar


Gunther Rattay

RE: VIC Coil electrical values
« Reply #9, on October 1st, 2011, 10:23 AM »
Quote from dirtwill on October 1st, 2011, 06:43 AM
Quote from bussi04 on October 1st, 2011, 01:15 AM
so I want to suggest to exchange electrical values like inductance of each coil at a given frequency (i.e. 1 kHz), Al value of the core and Amin for the effective core diameter. also wire diameter or at least RMS amp flow expected are necessary for exchange.

Adding min and max pulsing frequency shooting for and of course primary pulsing voltage range shall be a minimum set of values worth for exchange.
bussi04
I dont think I understood any of that. Please elaborate on your ideas.

Tesla Bi-filar
I defined a set of electrical values taken from datasheets or calculations each of us should publish here in the thread instead of pictures and number of turns. those pics and number of turns don´t allow to compare anything in practical experiments.

as an example:
taking a stanley meyer steel core without defined AL value etc. and adding the information "primary 100 turns" is quite useless. more useful is a value like 100 mH that can be used for calculations in electronic circuits. once you are using another core with a higher AL value than Stan Meyer´s steel core you will have a completely different turn count for the same induction.

hope that helps to make clear what I wanted to state.

bussi04


~Russ

RE: VIC Coil electrical values
« Reply #10, on October 1st, 2011, 01:36 PM »
Quote from bussi04 on October 1st, 2011, 10:23 AM
Quote from dirtwill on October 1st, 2011, 06:43 AM
Quote from bussi04 on October 1st, 2011, 01:15 AM
so I want to suggest to exchange electrical values like inductance of each coil at a given frequency (i.e. 1 kHz), Al value of the core and Amin for the effective core diameter. also wire diameter or at least RMS amp flow expected are necessary for exchange.

Adding min and max pulsing frequency shooting for and of course primary pulsing voltage range shall be a minimum set of values worth for exchange.
bussi04
I dont think I understood any of that. Please elaborate on your ideas.

Tesla Bi-filar
I defined a set of electrical values taken from datasheets or calculations each of us should publish here in the thread instead of pictures and number of turns. those pics and number of turns don´t allow to compare anything in practical experiments.

as an example:
taking a stanley meyer steel core without defined AL value etc. and adding the information "primary 100 turns" is quite useless. more useful is a value like 100 mH that can be used for calculations in electronic circuits. once you are using another core with a higher AL value than Stan Meyer´s steel core you will have a completely different turn count for the same induction.

hope that helps to make clear what I wanted to state.

bussi04
agreed! This is what we need to do.

I will be posting my data so far ASAP!

I will post a'n excell sheet. So we can download and add to the file then upload it. This will help up keep organized.

Sweet!

~Russ

KevinW_EnhancedLiving


~Russ

RE: VIC Coil
« Reply #12, on October 6th, 2011, 07:24 AM »
Quote from dirtwill on October 5th, 2011, 09:52 PM
http://www.diygallery.de/DIYsites/inductor.html
I found this Helpfull

So are you guys saying we should have a meter that reads Inductance?Like H or mH? for proper testing?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/LCR-Inductance-Capacitance-Digital-Multimeter-Meter-RCL-/300418629699?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45f2588043
LCR Inductance Capacitance Digital Multimeter Meter RCL
$20 on ebay
good find, i have one just like this that was donated to me. it works ok but there is no frequency selector. i will be getting a much better LRC meter.

also, attached is the VIC readings of my VIC. you can make a new "sheet" at the bottom and enter your test results.

Then re upload the file. we can just keep updating this excel file as we progress.

my stuff is kinda sloppy... but that's what i got... if some one wants to make a better spreed sheet. that's cool!

thanks, ~Russ

KevinW_EnhancedLiving

RE: VIC Coil
« Reply #13, on October 6th, 2011, 09:25 PM »
Quote from Rwg42985 on October 6th, 2011, 07:24 AM
Quote from dirtwill on October 5th, 2011, 09:52 PM
http://www.diygallery.de/DIYsites/inductor.html
I found this Helpfull

So are you guys saying we should have a meter that reads Inductance?Like H or mH? for proper testing?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/LCR-Inductance-Capacitance-Digital-Multimeter-Meter-RCL-/300418629699?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45f2588043
LCR Inductance Capacitance Digital Multimeter Meter RCL
$20 on ebay
good find, i have one just like this that was donated to me. it works ok but there is no frequency selector. i will be getting a much better LRC meter.

also, attached is the VIC readings of my VIC. you can make a new "sheet" at the bottom and enter your test results.

Then re upload the file. we can just keep updating this excel file as we progress.

my stuff is kinda sloppy... but that's what i got... if some one wants to make a better spreed sheet. that's cool!

thanks, ~Russ
Ok done... $34 with shipping ;). Frequency and inductance :)
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/180614882090?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

~Russ

RE: VIC Coil
« Reply #14, on October 7th, 2011, 09:23 AM »
Quote from dirtwill on October 6th, 2011, 09:25 PM
Quote from Rwg42985 on October 6th, 2011, 07:24 AM
Quote from dirtwill on October 5th, 2011, 09:52 PM
http://www.diygallery.de/DIYsites/inductor.html
I found this Helpfull

So are you guys saying we should have a meter that reads Inductance?Like H or mH? for proper testing?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/LCR-Inductance-Capacitance-Digital-Multimeter-Meter-RCL-/300418629699?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45f2588043
LCR Inductance Capacitance Digital Multimeter Meter RCL
$20 on ebay
good find, i have one just like this that was donated to me. it works ok but there is no frequency selector. i will be getting a much better LRC meter.

also, attached is the VIC readings of my VIC. you can make a new "sheet" at the bottom and enter your test results.

Then re upload the file. we can just keep updating this excel file as we progress.

my stuff is kinda sloppy... but that's what i got... if some one wants to make a better spreed sheet. that's cool!

thanks, ~Russ
Ok done... $34 with shipping ;). Frequency and inductance :)
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/180614882090?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
sweet! looks good.

~Russ

KevinW_EnhancedLiving

RE: VIC Coil
« Reply #15, on October 9th, 2011, 09:37 AM »Last edited on October 9th, 2011, 10:03 AM by KevinW_EnhancedLiving
[/code]
Quote from Rwg42985 on October 6th, 2011, 07:24 AM
Quote from dirtwill on October 5th, 2011, 09:52 PM
http://www.diygallery.de/DIYsites/inductor.html
I found this Helpfull

So are you guys saying we should have a meter that reads Inductance?Like H or mH? for proper testing?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/LCR-Inductance-Capacitance-Digital-Multimeter-Meter-RCL-/300418629699?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45f2588043
LCR Inductance Capacitance Digital Multimeter Meter RCL
$20 on ebay
good find, i have one just like this that was donated to me. it works ok but there is no frequency selector. i will be getting a much better LRC meter.

also, attached is the VIC readings of my VIC. you can make a new "sheet" at the bottom and enter your test results.

Then re upload the file. we can just keep updating this excel file as we progress.

my stuff is kinda sloppy... but that's what i got... if some one wants to make a better spreed sheet. that's cool!

thanks, ~Russ
Hey Russ I am trying to make sense of your VIC datasheet.

Which color is what coil? Primary, secondary, feedback and chokes.
Also your datasheet has two different feedback, why is that?



Thanks... I'll be shipping your board on Tuesday. Monday is canada thanksgiving.

Later ;)

~Russ

RE: VIC Coil
« Reply #16, on October 9th, 2011, 12:02 PM »
Quote from dirtwill on October 9th, 2011, 09:37 AM
[/code]
Quote from Rwg42985 on October 6th, 2011, 07:24 AM
Quote from dirtwill on October 5th, 2011, 09:52 PM
http://www.diygallery.de/DIYsites/inductor.html
I found this Helpfull

So are you guys saying we should have a meter that reads Inductance?Like H or mH? for proper testing?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/LCR-Inductance-Capacitance-Digital-Multimeter-Meter-RCL-/300418629699?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45f2588043
LCR Inductance Capacitance Digital Multimeter Meter RCL
$20 on ebay
good find, i have one just like this that was donated to me. it works ok but there is no frequency selector. i will be getting a much better LRC meter.

also, attached is the VIC readings of my VIC. you can make a new "sheet" at the bottom and enter your test results.

Then re upload the file. we can just keep updating this excel file as we progress.

my stuff is kinda sloppy... but that's what i got... if some one wants to make a better spreed sheet. that's cool!

thanks, ~Russ
Hey Russ I am trying to make sense of your VIC datasheet.

Which color is what coil? Primary, secondary, feedback and chokes.
Also your datasheet has two different feedback, why is that?



Thanks... I'll be shipping your board on Tuesday. Monday is Canada thanksgiving.

Later ;)
Updated the DOC. See notes in the top right side of the Sheet.

there is 2 pickup coils as that is what Stan had... see attached photo:

thanks! ~Russ

Gunther Rattay


phil

RE: VIC Coil
« Reply #18, on October 10th, 2011, 08:45 AM »Last edited on October 10th, 2011, 08:46 AM by phil
I see a few similarities between the VIC coil and the rhumkoff coil.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induction_coil

Construction details.
To prevent the high voltages generated in the coil from breaking down the thin insulation and arcing between the secondary wires, the secondary coil uses special construction so as to avoid having wires carrying large voltage differences lying next to each other. The secondary coil is wound in many thin flat pancake-shaped sections (called "pies"), connected in series. The primary coil is first wound on the iron core, and insulated from the secondary with a thick paper or rubber coating. Then each secondary subcoil is coated with an insulating layer like paraffin, connected to the coil next to it, and slid onto the iron core, insulated from adjoining coils with paper disks. The voltage developed in each subcoil isn't large enough to jump between the wires in the subcoil. Large voltages are only developed across many subcoils in series, which are too widely separated to arc over.

Its old-tech but may be worthy of some further study.

To prevent eddy currents, which flow perpendicular to the magnetic axis, and cause energy losses, the iron core is made of a bundle of parallel iron wires, individually coated with shellac to insulate them electrically. The ends of the primary coil often protruded several inches from either end of the secondary coil, to prevent arcs from the secondary to the primary or the core.


Gunther Rattay

RE: VIC Coil
« Reply #19, on October 11th, 2011, 10:24 AM »
Phil,

I agree, for inner secondary and outer chokes I used pie divided pancake style windings. due to the concentric structure of the bobbins special care must be taken at the wire entry points because there the complete voltage difference occurs. so I think my next transformer will have entry and exit points for a winding at opposite sides.

I calculated windings space volume needed with a selfmade excel sheet. for winding efficiency I took 98%. that showed to be a much too optimistic point of view.

In the German version of Wikipedia I found an article about different winding techniques and the technique I used was called "wild winding" on the opposite of orthocyclic winding technique (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spulenwickeltechnik).

so I read and found out in practical terms that 73% winding efficiency for wild windings is more what can be expected.

It´s time for my next more elaborated VIC,

bussi04

~Russ

RE: VIC Coil
« Reply #20, on October 11th, 2011, 11:44 AM »
Quote from bussi04 on October 11th, 2011, 10:24 AM
Phil,

I agree, for inner secondary and outer chokes I used pie divided pancake style windings. due to the concentric structure of the bobbins special care must be taken at the wire entry points because there the complete voltage difference occurs. so I think my next transformer will have entry and exit points for a winding at opposite sides.

I calculated windings space volume needed with a selfmade excel sheet. for winding efficiency I took 98%. that showed to be a much too optimistic point of view.

In the German version of Wikipedia I found an article about different winding techniques and the technique I used was called "wild winding" on the opposite of orthocyclic winding technique (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spulenwickeltechnik).

so I read and found out in practical terms that 73% winding efficiency for wild windings is more what can be expected.

It´s time for my next more elaborated VIC,

bussi04
bussi04,

is this spred sheet somthing your willing to share? will it help us all? if so please attach it? if not its all good! :)

thanks! ~Russ

Gunther Rattay

RE: VIC Coil
« Reply #21, on October 11th, 2011, 12:53 PM »
Russ,

it´s too early to share the excel sheet.

when designing my next VIC I will have to do some error corrections, translate it into english and add parametric input in inches.

at the moment it´s operating in mm, produces a side view simulation of the bobbins and generates a parameter output serving as parameter input for my cnc lathe.

stay tuned

bussi04

~Russ

RE: VIC Coil
« Reply #22, on October 11th, 2011, 01:46 PM »
Quote from bussi04 on October 11th, 2011, 12:53 PM
Russ,

it´s too early to share the excel sheet.

when designing my next VIC I will have to do some error corrections, translate it into english and add parametric input in inches.

at the moment it´s operating in mm, produces a side view simulation of the bobbins and generates a parameter output serving as parameter input for my cnc lathe.

stay tuned

bussi04
Yep! I know what you mean! Thanks!!! Good luck! Godspeed!

~Russ

KevinW_EnhancedLiving

RE: VIC Coil
« Reply #23, on October 11th, 2011, 06:28 PM »
Quote from bussi04 on October 11th, 2011, 10:24 AM
Phil,

I agree, for inner secondary and outer chokes I used pie divided pancake style windings. due to the concentric structure of the bobbins special care must be taken at the wire entry points because there the complete voltage difference occurs. so I think my next transformer will have entry and exit points for a winding at opposite sides.

I calculated windings space volume needed with a selfmade excel sheet. for winding efficiency I took 98%. that showed to be a much too optimistic point of view.

In the German version of Wikipedia I found an article about different winding techniques and the technique I used was called "wild winding" on the opposite of orthocyclic winding technique (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spulenwickeltechnik).

so I read and found out in practical terms that 73% winding efficiency for wild windings is more what can be expected.

It´s time for my next more elaborated VIC,

bussi04
I don't understand "pie divided pancake style windings"??

firepinto

RE: VIC Coil
« Reply #24, on October 25th, 2011, 07:45 PM »
So I've been practicing Google Sketchup latley..:P  I started a 3D model of VIC bobbins that are detailed on a couple .pdf files by Dynodon on another forum.  I hope that is fine. :)  I converted all the measurements to millimeters for RepRapability. Yes new words.  :D I would like to make another model(s) that fits more available ferrite cores also.  Next task is to try to design some kind of structure or scaffolding to make it printable.  Is there any other features or grooves that would be necessary?  

Sketchup file is zipped and pdf files are all attached. :)

Nate