VIC testing (Findings and notes)

Sharky

RE: VIC testing (Findings and notes)
« Reply #25, on August 3rd, 2012, 01:11 AM »
Quote from Webmug on August 2nd, 2012, 09:34 AM
Any ideas how to design the primary / feedback / secondary coils and tune them on resonance?

What if the wire length of primary is 1/4 or 1/2 wavelengths of secondary, can they be tuned?

Why because the secondary coil (charger) has halve the resonance frequency of the positive resonant charging choke (choke and WFC "LCR").

If you know the resonant charging choke frequency you can design the secondary coil, feedback and the primary coil (on halve resonant frequency). All coils are in phase with the primary pulse signal.
The blocking diode doubles the frequency of the secondary used by the resonant charging choke.

Any ideas?

Br,
Webmug
Webmug are you sure you see the second pulse from the collapsing field of the charging choke on your feedback coil? In my opinion it should not be there since the diode prevents the second pulse from reaching the secondary but instead forces it into the water capacitor causing the step charging effect. So the pulse doubling will be seen at the capacitor but not at the secondary and feedback coils?

Webmug

RE: VIC testing (Findings and notes)
« Reply #26, on August 3rd, 2012, 01:30 AM »
Quote from Sharky on August 3rd, 2012, 01:11 AM
Quote from Webmug on August 2nd, 2012, 09:34 AM
Any ideas how to design the primary / feedback / secondary coils and tune them on resonance?

What if the wire length of primary is 1/4 or 1/2 wavelengths of secondary, can they be tuned?

Why because the secondary coil (charger) has halve the resonance frequency of the positive resonant charging choke (choke and WFC "LCR").

If you know the resonant charging choke frequency you can design the secondary coil, feedback and the primary coil (on halve resonant frequency). All coils are in phase with the primary pulse signal.
The blocking diode doubles the frequency of the secondary used by the resonant charging choke.

Any ideas?

Br,
Webmug
Webmug are you sure you see the second pulse from the collapsing field of the charging choke on your feedback coil? In my opinion it should not be there since the diode prevents the second pulse from reaching the secondary but instead forces it into the water capacitor causing the step charging effect. So the pulse doubling will be seen at the capacitor but not at the secondary and feedback coils?
The double pulse is formed when the gate shuts down the PLL and this unipolar pulse is bounced back from the blocking diode. Since the magnetic collapse is on the core but the PLL is off it doesn't do anything until the gate switches the PLL back on for next charging cycle.
So discharging the chokes is when secondary stops the charging of the resonant chokes, gate is active. Diode prevents a short of the secondary coil when discarging the chokes as unipolar pulse.

Thus the double pulse is at the chokes and on the core but also the neg choke prevents current flow on the neg secondary side when collapsing the magnetic field and so restrict the current at the same time. Also the blocking diode prevents leakage of the wfc and step charge the wfc.


Br,
Webmug

Sharky

RE: VIC testing (Findings and notes)
« Reply #27, on August 3rd, 2012, 03:10 AM »
Quote from Webmug on August 3rd, 2012, 01:30 AM
Quote from Sharky on August 3rd, 2012, 01:11 AM
Quote from Webmug on August 2nd, 2012, 09:34 AM
Any ideas how to design the primary / feedback / secondary coils and tune them on resonance?

What if the wire length of primary is 1/4 or 1/2 wavelengths of secondary, can they be tuned?

Why because the secondary coil (charger) has halve the resonance frequency of the positive resonant charging choke (choke and WFC "LCR").

If you know the resonant charging choke frequency you can design the secondary coil, feedback and the primary coil (on halve resonant frequency). All coils are in phase with the primary pulse signal.
The blocking diode doubles the frequency of the secondary used by the resonant charging choke.

Any ideas?

Br,
Webmug
Webmug are you sure you see the second pulse from the collapsing field of the charging choke on your feedback coil? In my opinion it should not be there since the diode prevents the second pulse from reaching the secondary but instead forces it into the water capacitor causing the step charging effect. So the pulse doubling will be seen at the capacitor but not at the secondary and feedback coils?
The double pulse is formed when the gate shuts down the PLL and this unipolar pulse is bounced back from the blocking diode. Since the magnetic collapse is on the core but the PLL is off it doesn't do anything until the gate switches the PLL back on for next charging cycle.
So discharging the chokes is when secondary stops the charging of the resonant chokes, gate is active. Diode prevents a short of the secondary coil when discarging the chokes as unipolar pulse.

Thus the double pulse is at the chokes and on the core but also the neg choke prevents current flow on the neg secondary side when collapsing the magnetic field and so restrict the current at the same time. Also the blocking diode prevents leakage of the wfc and step charge the wfc.


Br,
Webmug
Hmmm, nice discussion :cool:, ... take a look at the Birth of a Technology memo 422DA figure 3-19 and 3-20. There is a difference between input pulse train, which has a 50% duty cycle (so not the gating but for the pulses) and the pulse train at the cell. The magnetic field does not only collapse when gating is on but the field collapses after every pulse of the input pulse train. See paragraph 2 at page 3-8, there it states:

"Switching diode of figure 3-22 not only acts as a blocking diode by preventing electrical shorting to secondary coil during pulse off-time since diode only conducts electrical energy in the direction of schematic arrow; but, also and at the same time functions as a electronic switch which opens electrical circuit during pulse off-time allowing magnetic fields of both inductor coils to collapse forming pulse train 64a xxx 64n"

Remains the question if a collapse of the magnetic field/release of the chokes energy to the cell causes a pulse on the core or only at the cell?

Do you have measurements of the extra pulses on the feedback coil with a scope?

Regards,
Sharky

Webmug

RE: VIC testing (Findings and notes)
« Reply #28, on August 5th, 2012, 09:32 AM »Last edited on August 5th, 2012, 11:54 AM by Webmug
Quote from Sharky on August 3rd, 2012, 03:10 AM
Quote from Webmug on August 3rd, 2012, 01:30 AM
Quote from Sharky on August 3rd, 2012, 01:11 AM
Quote from Webmug on August 2nd, 2012, 09:34 AM
Any ideas how to design the primary / feedback / secondary coils and tune them on resonance?

What if the wire length of primary is 1/4 or 1/2 wavelengths of secondary, can they be tuned?

Why because the secondary coil (charger) has halve the resonance frequency of the positive resonant charging choke (choke and WFC "LCR").

If you know the resonant charging choke frequency you can design the secondary coil, feedback and the primary coil (on halve resonant frequency). All coils are in phase with the primary pulse signal.
The blocking diode doubles the frequency of the secondary used by the resonant charging choke.

Any ideas?

Br,
Webmug
Webmug are you sure you see the second pulse from the collapsing field of the charging choke on your feedback coil? In my opinion it should not be there since the diode prevents the second pulse from reaching the secondary but instead forces it into the water capacitor causing the step charging effect. So the pulse doubling will be seen at the capacitor but not at the secondary and feedback coils?
The double pulse is formed when the gate shuts down the PLL and this unipolar pulse is bounced back from the blocking diode. Since the magnetic collapse is on the core but the PLL is off it doesn't do anything until the gate switches the PLL back on for next charging cycle.
So discharging the chokes is when secondary stops the charging of the resonant chokes, gate is active. Diode prevents a short of the secondary coil when discarging the chokes as unipolar pulse.

Thus the double pulse is at the chokes and on the core but also the neg choke prevents current flow on the neg secondary side when collapsing the magnetic field and so restrict the current at the same time. Also the blocking diode prevents leakage of the wfc and step charge the wfc.


Br,
Webmug
Hmmm, nice discussion :cool:, ... take a look at the Birth of a Technology memo 422DA figure 3-19 and 3-20. There is a difference between input pulse train, which has a 50% duty cycle (so not the gating but for the pulses) and the pulse train at the cell. The magnetic field does not only collapse when gating is on but the field collapses after every pulse of the input pulse train. See paragraph 2 at page 3-8, there it states:

"Switching diode of figure 3-22 not only acts as a blocking diode by preventing electrical shorting to secondary coil during pulse off-time since diode only conducts electrical energy in the direction of schematic arrow; but, also and at the same time functions as a electronic switch which opens electrical circuit during pulse off-time allowing magnetic fields of both inductor coils to collapse forming pulse train 64a xxx 64n"

Remains the question if a collapse of the magnetic field/release of the chokes energy to the cell causes a pulse on the core or only at the cell?

Do you have measurements of the extra pulses on the feedback coil with a scope?

Regards,
Sharky
Hi Sharky,

You are right about the 50% pulse. After diode the choke generates double pulse when magnetic field collapses.

Info what Stan tells in the patent about Impedance (Z) is very important!

Electrical Impedance (Z), is the total opposition that a circuit presents to alternating current. Impedance is measured in ohms and may include resistance (R), inductive reactance (XL), and capacitive reactance (XC). However, the total impedance is not simply the algebraic sum of the resistance, inductive reactance, and capacitive reactance. Since the inductive reactance and capacitive reactance are 90o out of phase with the resistance and, therefore, their maximum values occur at different times, vector addition must be used to calculate impedance.

This Z is for secondary, positive and negative chokes and wfc.
If you connect the chokes to the wfc, you notice the inductance is altered and also the capacitance and resistance. Neg choke gives 180 phase shift to choke pos.

Choke neg is tuned for Z Equal to Choke pos Z to restrict current and charge the water molecules.

Gating tunes in on the "water molecule resonance", meaning pulsing voltage , step charge level. (pulsating voltage on step charging) resonant action.

We want a AC resonant wave what is seen 180o phase at the wfc where current is minimal on the Z vector impedance. When you connect equal chokes to opposite sides of wfc you see differences between them. Stan tuned the neg choke Z to have almost zero current to pos choke, what steps up the voltage at the wfc (charges the water molecule) with unipolar double frequency pulses. Neg Step charge AC signal is blocked by diode so only unipolar pulse is seen at the pos choke side. When neg side has no diode and is copied due magnetic field but is 180o out of phase with pos choke. Chokes are tuned on double charge frequency from the secondary coil.



Br,
Webmug

RE: VIC testing (Findings and notes)
« Reply #29, on August 6th, 2012, 11:57 AM »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-x3PVi8wF0
Tony, have you tested this on the resonance VIC?

When I measure at the chokes I have 180o phase what is seen in the video. But when I connect the WFC, I have all the signals in phase again... :D

Ideas?

Br,
Webmug

Gunther Rattay

RE: VIC testing (Findings and notes)
« Reply #30, on August 7th, 2012, 02:16 AM »
Quote from Webmug on August 6th, 2012, 11:57 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-x3PVi8wF0
Tony, have you tested this on the resonance VIC?

When I measure at the chokes I have 180o phase what is seen in the video. But when I connect the WFC, I have all the signals in phase again... :D

Ideas?

Br,
Webmug
I can´t understand what signal the video shows. are those signal lines 1 channel or two?

if it´s one channel the scope´s timebase makes a trick and the signal is a normal sine. a single voltage pulse can´t be positive and negative at the same time ...

if it´s 2 channels where are the signals taken from?

without exact circuit wireing information and a component scheme it´s hollywood ...


Webmug

RE: VIC testing (Findings and notes)
« Reply #31, on August 7th, 2012, 02:34 AM »
Quote from bussi04 on August 7th, 2012, 02:16 AM
Quote from Webmug on August 6th, 2012, 11:57 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-x3PVi8wF0
Tony, have you tested this on the resonance VIC?

When I measure at the chokes I have 180o phase what is seen in the video. But when I connect the WFC, I have all the signals in phase again... :D

Ideas?

Br,
Webmug
I can´t understand what signal the video shows. are those signal lines 1 channel or two?

if it´s one channel the scope´s timebase makes a trick and the signal is a normal sine. a single voltage pulse can´t be positive and negative at the same time ...

if it´s 2 channels where are the signals taken from?

without exact circuit wireing information and a component scheme it´s hollywood ...
Asking the same questions...

I measure with two channel scope at B+ and B- (choke output).
GND leads connected between secondary neg and choke neg.
I see two AC signals 180o out of phase on two channel inputs.

Br,
Webmug

RE: VIC testing (Findings and notes)
« Reply #32, on August 7th, 2012, 02:28 PM »
Question: "how do you restrict current" ?
Quote
The value of the Inductor (C), the value of the capacitor (ER), and the pulse-frequency of the voltage
being applied across the LC circuit determines the impedance of the LC circuit
Quote
The Inductor (C) takes on or becomes an Modulator Inductor which steps up an oscillation of an
given charging frequency
with the effective capacitance of an pulse-forming network in order to charge
the voltage zones (E1/E2) to an higher potential beyond applied voltage input
Amp leakage is restricted to 1-2 milliamp on resonance, so 2000 to 5000 Voltage potential applied gives E=IZ -> 2000=1 *10^-3 Z -> Z= 2 Mega Ohms or Z=2.5Mega Ohms total electrical Impedance at the chokes on typical 5kHz frequency.
Quote
Info what Stan tells in the patent about Impedance (Z) is very important!

Electrical Impedance (Z), is the total opposition that a circuit presents to alternating current. Impedance is measured in ohms and may include resistance ®, inductive reactance (XL), and capacitive reactance (XC). However, the total impedance is not simply the algebraic sum of the resistance, inductive reactance, and capacitive reactance. Since the inductive reactance and capacitive reactance are 90o out of phase with the resistance and, therefore, their maximum values occur at different times, vector addition must be used to calculate impedance.

This Z is for secondary, positive and negative chokes and wfc.
If you connect the chokes to the wfc, you notice the inductance is altered and also the capacitance and resistance. Neg choke gives 180 phase shift to choke pos.

Choke neg is tuned for Z Equal to Choke pos Z to restrict current and charge the water molecules.
Since the coils are not perfect components we have to use Real Components capacitor (Rs, L, C, Rp) and inductor (Rs, L, Cw) combined WFC (C and R) and calculate the needed Z for the chokes. This is then on typically 5kHz resonance 3 inch resonance WFC!
Quote
Variable inductor-coil (D), similar to inductor (C) connected to opposite polarity voltage zone (E2)
further inhibits electron movement or deflection within the Voltage Intensifier Circuit. Movable wiper
arm fine "tunes" "Resonant Action" during pulsing operations. Inductor (D) in relationship to inductor
(C) electrically balances the opposite voltage electrical potential across voltage zones (EI/E2).
Negative choke has different Z as the positive choke, because it has R wfc added to the total Electrical Impedance and needs 'tuning'.

Br,
Webmug


RE: VIC testing (Findings and notes)
« Reply #33, on August 8th, 2012, 08:28 AM »Last edited on August 8th, 2012, 12:28 PM by Webmug
Hi,

Can you explain this scope shot what I took?

The secondary lead B+ and B- are connected to two identical scope probes channels A en B. Look what the voltage is on both channels. A-B is also visible. Scope AB gnds are connected.
The secondary is on SRF (self resonance frequency). Primary was pulsed 50% square wave 12V. They are 180 out of phase????? Scope channels are not inverted.

Why are the blue and yellow scope traces not opposite but equal in amplitude?

What happens when you connect a choke at B- and/or B+ tuned on this frequency? Give more voltage right?

Solved: got tiny wire hanging out B-. Now the voltages are equal. Just to said how sensitive the coils are!!!!!  ???



Br,
Webmug

HMS-776

RE: VIC testing (Findings and notes)
« Reply #34, on August 11th, 2012, 11:52 PM »

Hey Everyone,

Tonight I was able to get the frequency doubling effect to occur, I was also able to lock on resonance. But I could not get both at the same time. No gas produced but still a few steps in the right direction.

I am uploading a few videos on youtube that I will add after they have uploaded. Getting closer but still a lot of work to do.

Gunther Rattay

RE: VIC testing (Findings and notes)
« Reply #35, on August 12th, 2012, 02:17 AM »
Quote from HMS-776 on August 11th, 2012, 11:52 PM
Hey Everyone,

Tonight I was able to get the frequency doubling effect to occur, I was also able to lock on resonance. But I could not get both at the same time. No gas produced but still a few steps in the right direction.

I am uploading a few videos on youtube that I will add after they have uploaded. Getting closer but still a lot of work to do.
that´s great! please add a circuit diagram showing the probe access points :-)


Shainagua

RE: VIC testing (Findings and notes)
« Reply #36, on August 12th, 2012, 08:12 AM »
Quote from HMS-776 on August 11th, 2012, 11:52 PM
Hey Everyone,

Tonight I was able to get the frequency doubling effect to occur, I was also able to lock on resonance. But I could not get both at the same time. No gas produced but still a few steps in the right direction.

I am uploading a few videos on youtube that I will add after they have uploaded. Getting closer but still a lot of work to do.
Wonderful news, I can not wait to see the video.

Good work and thanks for sharing, blessings

Shainagua

HMS-776

RE: VIC testing (Findings and notes)
« Reply #37, on August 12th, 2012, 01:14 PM »Last edited on August 12th, 2012, 02:51 PM by HMS-776
Here's the video of the frequency doubling effect!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRDD1yreOSQ

If there are any questions don't hesitate to ask me as I will be happy to answer them.

Bussi04.

The oscope is connected directly at the cell (in parallel) and at the feedback coil test point. I also move it to the primary coil in the video so you can see the difference between the primary and feedback coils doubled frequency.


Although I'm getting frequency doubling it looks more like tripling or quadroupling frequency. I think that's only due to errors on my part and the fact that the impedances are not matched, nor are the secondary and choke coils the same values. Perhaps if I was able to adjust the duty cycle I could get the doubling effect to more closely ressemble Stans.

The work continues!
RE: VIC testing (Findings and notes)
« Reply #38, on August 12th, 2012, 05:49 PM »Last edited on August 12th, 2012, 09:00 PM by HMS-776
Here's a better video showing the frequency doubling and the difference between my frequency doubling and Stan's.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysY_oDMfayo&feature=plcp

[attachment=2078]
Above is a scopeshot of the frequency doubling at a different frequency. I have noticed that is occurs at different frequencies but not at all frequencies.
Note that the phases are not matched which shows the circuit is not in resonance.

Sharky

RE: VIC testing (Findings and notes)
« Reply #39, on August 13th, 2012, 12:28 AM »
Quote from HMS-776 on August 12th, 2012, 05:49 PM
Here's a better video showing the frequency doubling and the difference between my frequency doubling and Stan's.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysY_oDMfayo&feature=plcp


Above is a scopeshot of the frequency doubling at a different frequency. I have noticed that is occurs at different frequencies but not at all frequencies.
Note that the phases are not matched which shows the circuit is not in resonance.
Current will only be induced in the secondary coil if there is a change in the magnetic field on the primairy caused by a changing current. So on the rising edge of the pulse on the primairy you see the secondary rising as well, then when the pulse on the primairy stays on its max pulse value there is no change in magnetic field anymore, thus no signal on the secondary. When you get at the falling edge, change again so pulse on the secondary again. So i think it is the standard transformer action what is happening in my oppinion in your video.

Gunther Rattay

RE: VIC testing (Findings and notes)
« Reply #40, on August 13th, 2012, 12:30 AM »Last edited on August 13th, 2012, 01:10 AM by bussi04
Quote from HMS-776 on July 30th, 2012, 05:12 PM
Thanks Webmug, I knew such a device had to exist.

The only problem is wow, they are quite expensive. So I guess for now that's going to get ruled out. We already know the capacitor is non-linear. The numbers you provided as well as my own testing prove that.

For now the work continues. I am waiting for some electronics stuff to arrive which will give me much more precise tuning capabilities. Until then I don't have much else to do.

And yes Webmug as you pointed out there is a definate RADAR connection. Waveguides, PFN's, AC and DC charging etc! Good posts on those!
this measurement support tool may be useful: http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=469&pid=6965#pid6965

















Webmug

RE: VIC testing (Findings and notes)
« Reply #41, on August 15th, 2012, 07:25 AM »Last edited on August 15th, 2012, 07:47 AM by Webmug
Hi,

I'm posting this message here to lead you to ionizationx.com because I don't want to post a copy of a thread twice.

This could be the working principle of the Resonance VIC transformer and also the Injector VIC unit since it is a follow up improved version.
Quote from http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,2488.msg23224.html#msg23224
The VIC is a system for restricting the flow of amperes while allowing voltage electrical stress to be propagated. It uses a principle called the electron bounce phenomenon, that is simply the separation of charges in conductor materials under time varying magnetic fields. For this a pulse is applied and is compressed during the collapse the field in its coils.
Let me know what you think!

It involves the EbP Electron Bounce Phenomenon and Electron Clustering.

If there are few members who can not access the ionizationx site I would post the thread here if required.

Cheers!!!

Br,
Webmug
RE: VIC testing (Findings and notes)
« Reply #42, on August 18th, 2012, 02:57 AM »
This is the best example what the VIC is doing at both sides of the exciters!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qbo0T_HYe8

What do you think how much voltage is needed doing this?

Br,
Webmug

~Russ


Webmug

RE: VIC testing (Findings and notes)
« Reply #44, on August 18th, 2012, 03:28 AM »
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on August 18th, 2012, 03:27 AM
Quote from Webmug on August 18th, 2012, 02:57 AM
This is the best example what the VIC is doing at both sides of the exciters!!


What do you think how much voltage is needed doing this?

Br,
Webmug
not much... you'd be surprised. ~russ
Exactly!!! :D

Sharky

RE: VIC testing (Findings and notes)
« Reply #45, on August 20th, 2012, 05:32 AM »Last edited on August 20th, 2012, 05:35 AM by Sharky
Quote from Webmug on August 15th, 2012, 07:25 AM
Hi,

I'm posting this message here to lead you to ionizationx.com because I don't want to post a copy of a thread twice.

This could be the working principle of the Resonance VIC transformer and also the Injector VIC unit since it is a follow up improved version.
Quote from http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,2488.msg23224.html#msg23224
The VIC is a system for restricting the flow of amperes while allowing voltage electrical stress to be propagated. It uses a principle called the electron bounce phenomenon, that is simply the separation of charges in conductor materials under time varying magnetic fields. For this a pulse is applied and is compressed during the collapse the field in its coils.
Let me know what you think!

It involves the EbP Electron Bounce Phenomenon and Electron Clustering.

If there are few members who can not access the ionizationx site I would post the thread here if required.

Cheers!!!

Br,
Webmug
Hi Webmug,
Your results are very interesting indeed, the scope shots where you do not have the wfc connected seem almost perfect step charging images. You state that when you connect the wfc that the signal is not at all there anymore but could you post it anyways?

Allthough i have quite some electrical engineering knowlegde some things are difficult for me to grasp (guess happens to all of us sometimes :cool: ). Could you try to enlighten me a bit on what exactly triggers the electron bounce phenomena? I do understand why it could trigger amp restriction but i do not understand what makes the copper ions and electrons cluster on opposite sides of the coil? As far as my knowlegde reaches the only resistance to amp flow was the actual copper wire resistance itself. Do you know of any, non-meyer, information source about the ebp in inductive coils?

Thank you,
Sharky

Webmug

RE: VIC testing (Findings and notes)
« Reply #46, on August 21st, 2012, 05:00 AM »
Quote from Sharky on August 20th, 2012, 05:32 AM
Quote from Webmug on August 15th, 2012, 07:25 AM
Hi,

I'm posting this message here to lead you to ionizationx.com because I don't want to post a copy of a thread twice.

This could be the working principle of the Resonance VIC transformer and also the Injector VIC unit since it is a follow up improved version.
Quote from http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,2488.msg23224.html#msg23224
The VIC is a system for restricting the flow of amperes while allowing voltage electrical stress to be propagated. It uses a principle called the electron bounce phenomenon, that is simply the separation of charges in conductor materials under time varying magnetic fields. For this a pulse is applied and is compressed during the collapse the field in its coils.
Let me know what you think!

It involves the EbP Electron Bounce Phenomenon and Electron Clustering.

If there are few members who can not access the ionizationx site I would post the thread here if required.

Cheers!!!

Br,
Webmug
Hi Webmug,
Your results are very interesting indeed, the scope shots where you do not have the wfc connected seem almost perfect step charging images. You state that when you connect the wfc that the signal is not at all there anymore but could you post it anyways?

Allthough i have quite some electrical engineering knowlegde some things are difficult for me to grasp (guess happens to all of us sometimes :cool: ). Could you try to enlighten me a bit on what exactly triggers the electron bounce phenomena? I do understand why it could trigger amp restriction but i do not understand what makes the copper ions and electrons cluster on opposite sides of the coil? As far as my knowlegde reaches the only resistance to amp flow was the actual copper wire resistance itself. Do you know of any, non-meyer, information source about the ebp in inductive coils?

Thank you,
Sharky
Hi Sharky,

I try and make a couple of more scope shots.

At this moment I can not find this EbP exactly explained used by Meyer in other sources found on the Internet.

But maybe this could help:
http://www.opamp-electronics.com/tutorials/static_electricity_1_01_01.htm or "single fluid theory"

Electrons and Ben Franklin

    Ben Franklin's "single fluid theory" showed that
    a given body possessing a normal amount of
    electric fluid was called neutral. During the
    process of charging, the fluid was transferred
    from one body to the other; the body with the
    deficiency being charged minus and the body
    with the excess charged plus . But no fluid is
    lost. Ben's "single fluid theory" led to the
    electron theory in 1900: electrons move about
    conductors much as a fluid might move.

CURRENT ELECTRICITY IS THE OPPOSITE OF STATIC ELECTRICITY? Wrong.
"Static Electricity" appears whenever the negative charges within matter are separated from the positive charges. "Current" appears whenever the negative charges within matter are made to flow through the positive charges (or when positive flows through negative.) "Static" and "Current" are two separate kinds of events, they are not opposites.

    "Static" is a separation; it is a stretching-apart, and it really has little to do with anything remaining static or stationary.

    "Current" is a flowing motion. It has little to do with the separation of opposite charges.

"Static electricity" was misnamed, and it really should be called "charge separation" or maybe "stretched" or "pressurized" electricity. Since stretch is not the opposite of flow, Static is not the opposite of Current. And athough electric current really exists and electric charge really exists, there is no such material as either "current electricity" or "static electricity." See http://amasci.com/miscon/curstat2.html on this topic.
Quote
Magnetic Field Coupling (71) of Figure (7-9) entering into and passing through Secondary Coil-winding (52) of Figure (7-8) causes and produces copper ions (643a xxx 643n) (Positive Charged atoms 542a xxx 542n having missing electrons) when moving external electromagnetic field strength (71a xxx 7In) is sufficient enough to dislodge electromagnetically charged electrons (64Ia xxx 64In) from copper atoms making up copper wire material (52). Collectively, the resultant positive electrical charged copper ions (642a xxx 642n) added together produces Positive Voltage Potential (629) being electrically applied to choke-coil (56); whereas, the "Liberated" negative electrical charged electrons (64Ia xxx 64In) added together provides Negative Voltage Potential (631) to the opposite end of Secondary Wire (52) being electrically connected to choke coil (62). Once Secondary Coil-winding (52) is de-energized by the removal (collapsing magnetic field during pulse off-time T2 of external Magnetic Field (71), the dislodged electrons (641a xx 641n) return to positive charged copper ions (642a xx 642n) ... terminating and switching off opposite voltage potential (629 - 631) when positive electrical state of the copper atoms changes back to net electrical charge of zero. Sustaining and maintaining the resultant induced Voltage Potential (Vo - Vn) without "Electron Discharged" (inhibiting electron flow) through Choke Coil (62) while, at the same time, inhibiting (preventing) any additional or other electrons from entering into Secondary copper wire-zone (52) by way of Choke Coil (56) is herein called "Electron Bounce Phenomenon" (EbP), as illustrated in (700) of Figure (7-9).
Quote
Note 1) The Electron Inhibiting Effect (631) of Figure (7-6) to cause "Electron Clustering" (Grouping/collecting negative charged particles at a given point) (700) of Figure (7-9) to produce ''Negative Voltage Potential" ( B- ) at one side of Water Gap (Cp) of Figure (7-8) is accomplished by low electrical power input (Tab 38) when Choke-Coil (62) of Figure (7-1) magnetic field (FL2) (690) of Figure (7-8) during pulse on-time (49) impede "Electron-Flow" since electron mass is composed of electromagnetic matter which interacts with magnetic field strength (FL2). Capacitance Charging Effect (628) prevents amp influxing away from Water Gap (Cp) in a similar manner ... producing "Electrical Stress" (SS' - RR') (B+/B-) across Water Gap (Cp) since both Choke-Coils (56/62) conducts voltage potential (Negative or Positive) during pulsing operations.
Br,
Webmug


Gunther Rattay

advanced skills in mathematics needed!
« Reply #47, on August 29th, 2012, 06:28 AM »Last edited on August 29th, 2012, 07:26 AM by bussi04
Quote from Webmug on July 29th, 2012, 03:20 AM
Quote from Webmug on July 28th, 2012, 01:12 PM
The major problem is where to tune into. If this is the self capacitance of a coil or total coils capacitance or WFC capacitance?

Inductance / capacitance between diode choke POS and WFC.

:exclamation: My findings of the operation of the VIC (which is based on radar PFN [Pulse Forming Network] modulators) :exclamation:

Resonance on the secondary coil is the key to have AC maximum voltage swing and use this signal as a charger component (voltage amplitude and resonance frequency).
(Stan stated if you change the windings count of the secondary / primary you can create more voltage potential) This said, alters the resonance frequency so a PLL is required to maintain resonance conditions. Think about this: why is the feedback coil between the primary and secondary coil! If secondary is on resonance it is voltage amplitude independent.

Then the choke and WFC must be tuned on the charger signal to establish resonant charging. It can be DC resonant charging. AC resonant charging is also possible, but this is even more difficult!

Stan wanted minimum amps and maximum voltage potential to develop at the exciters (and restricting amps using opposite chokes, voltage) and this can only be done using resonant charging by means of a charging frequency on resonance. If you read this it's difficult to understand but there are two resonance circuits connected to each other on the same or double tuned frequency.

He also is using a blocking diode so AC resonant charging is more likely. Stan states: the blocking diode prevent shorting the secondary coil and prevents discharging the WFC and creates a double pulse from the choke due the magnetic coupling.
If this is so, a blocking diode is needed to prevent a short when the gate switch(no signal) disable the charging signal and POS resonant choke discharges into the WFC. The NEG choke mirrors the POS choke (equal but opposite voltage) by using the magnetic field and restricts amps in the process.

Conditions for tuning the coils / capacitance / inductance and the WFC water type must be maintained. These are altered by the type of core inserted in the VIC transformer. If the chokes are connected to the secondary coil all conditions are changed because of the core coupling.

If the conditions are matched/tuned on the secondary charger signal, we can tune the gate for resonant charging (voltage potential) and charge the WFC with UNIPOLAR PULSES (discharging the chokes).

"The simplest type of a-c inductance charging is a-c resonant charging, in which the charging circuit is tuned to resonance at the impressed a-c frequency.

The network voltage reaches a maximum value when the impressed sinusoidal voltage is passing through zero. The pulses therefore occur whenever the impressed voltage is zero. Although the pulse recurrence frequency is usually equal to the impressed a-c frequency, it is sometimes double the impressed frequency, in which case there is one pulse for each half cycle of the applied-voltage wave. The disadvantage of a-c resonant charging is that the voltage across the network continues to build up if the switch misses one or several pulses.”

Here PULSE is read as a UNIPOLAR PULSE.

So if the switch misses several pulses the voltage continues to build up and charges the WFC to a point what the components can handle.

The PULSE frequency on the primary coil is in phase with the other coils.

Cheers!

Br,
Webmug
The Birth of New Technology: Water Fuel Cell Technical Brief

:exclamation: The Birth of New Technology: Water Fuel Cell Technical Brief: Page 1-2: Re:Hydrogen Fracturing Process Memo WFC 420 :exclamation:

"...The Inductor( C ) takes on or becomes an Modulator Inductor which steps up an oscillation of an given charging frequency with effective capacitance of an pulse-forming network in order to charge the voltage zones (E/E2) to an higher potential beyond applied voltage input.

The Inductance ( C ) and Capacitance ( ER ) properties of the LC circuit is therefore "tuned" to resonance at a certain frequency. The Resonant Frequency can be raised or lowered by changing the inductance and/or the capacitance values. The established resonant frequency is, of course, independent of voltage amplitude..."


:exclamation: The Birth of New Technology: Water Fuel Cell Technical Brief: Page 3-7: Re:WFC Hydrogen Gas Management System Memo WFC 422 DA :exclamation:

:exclamation: The Birth of New Technology: Water Fuel Cell Technical Brief: Page 7-3: RE: VIC Matrix Circuit Memo WFC 426 :exclamation:  
"..pulse forming network (64a xxx 64n) of Figure ( 7 -1 ) as to ( 600 ) of Figure ( 6-3 ) in order to charge Voltage Zones ( E9/E10 ) to an higher potential beyond applied voltage input.."


Fig.7-5 660 : Inductance Charging Effect

Additional documents attached!

"a-c resonance charging" Page 19. in "line-type-radar-modulators-49_Brown.pdf"

http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=170&pid=3818#pid3818
http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=170&pid=3846#pid3846

Page 96.
A Textbook of Radar: A Collective Work by the Staff of the Radiophysics Laboratory, C. S. I. R. O., Australia

Br,
Webmug
For the Pulse Forming Network I have found a valuable source for calculation of multiple capacitor/inductor configurations as used inside the VIC. the whole book is a good compilation of this type of technology from the radar scene.

each page can be downloaded as separate pdf, but after 7 pages  you must pause for 5 minutes otherwise download gets locked for 5 or more minutes.

http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?view=image;size=100;id=mdp.39015017570121;page=root;seq=196;num=176

Stan Meyer used a line type pulser type A.

Unfortunately I can´t calculate the formulas lacking sufficient mathematic skills :-(

Maybe it´s possible to use Mathlab, Maple or Mathematica to solve those sequences of calculations.

My idea is to set up 3 equations from the book as an example how to solve using real world parameters and then the following equations can be processed in a similar way ...

once we have started that way a new thread should be opened for Stan Meyer Calculations.

Somewhere out there at the forum someone who can give me a starting point?

Any suggestions welcome!


For all people feeling in the comfort zone reading those equations here is another good example for a simulation/calculation scheme: http://www.alphaomegapt.com/pdf%20files/1989%20Repetitive%20PFN%20Design.PDF

Webmug

RE: VIC testing (Findings and notes)
« Reply #48, on August 30th, 2012, 09:46 AM »
Quote from Sharky on August 20th, 2012, 05:32 AM
Quote from Webmug on August 15th, 2012, 07:25 AM
Hi,

I'm posting this message here to lead you to ionizationx.com because I don't want to post a copy of a thread twice.

This could be the working principle of the Resonance VIC transformer and also the Injector VIC unit since it is a follow up improved version.
Quote from http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,2488.msg23224.html#msg23224
The VIC is a system for restricting the flow of amperes while allowing voltage electrical stress to be propagated. It uses a principle called the electron bounce phenomenon, that is simply the separation of charges in conductor materials under time varying magnetic fields. For this a pulse is applied and is compressed during the collapse the field in its coils.
Let me know what you think!

It involves the EbP Electron Bounce Phenomenon and Electron Clustering.

If there are few members who can not access the ionizationx site I would post the thread here if required.

Cheers!!!

Br,
Webmug
Hi Webmug,
Your results are very interesting indeed, the scope shots where you do not have the wfc connected seem almost perfect step charging images. You state that when you connect the wfc that the signal is not at all there anymore but could you post it anyways?

Allthough i have quite some electrical engineering knowlegde some things are difficult for me to grasp (guess happens to all of us sometimes :cool: ). Could you try to enlighten me a bit on what exactly triggers the electron bounce phenomena? I do understand why it could trigger amp restriction but i do not understand what makes the copper ions and electrons cluster on opposite sides of the coil? As far as my knowlegde reaches the only resistance to amp flow was the actual copper wire resistance itself. Do you know of any, non-meyer, information source about the ebp in inductive coils?

Thank you,
Sharky
Sharky,

Here are my scope shots!

First the open circuit measured;


positive choke B+ connected to WFC plate, B- open;


negative choke B- connected to WFC plate, B+ open;


chokes connected to both B+ and B- connected to WFC;


PULSE on the same frequency and GATE duty cycle and period are fixed except when the WFC is connected frequency is lower.

Regards
RE: VIC testing (Findings and notes)
« Reply #49, on August 31st, 2012, 09:46 AM »Last edited on August 31st, 2012, 09:46 AM by Webmug
Hi,

Made this updated diagram visualizing the 180 degrees out of phase.


Br,
Webmug