VIC testing (Findings and notes)

Gunther Rattay

RE: VIC testing (Findings and notes)
« Reply #150, on August 24th, 2013, 11:52 AM »Last edited on August 24th, 2013, 11:56 AM by bussi04
HMS-776,

when go more into detail for those parameters I´ll try to make an LTSpice model to simulate circuit behaviour.[/quote]Already did! The only problem is you cannot simulate the non-linear resistance drop of the water. As dog one pointed out, the resistance of the water drops with voltage. It is well known in physics and chemistry that the resistance of water does not follow ohms law.

Because of that you can't get the discharge RC time constant to be shorter than the charging RC time constant on the simulation.



ENJOY!
Quote from Dog-One on August 24th, 2013, 10:25 AM
Quote from HMS-776 on August 23rd, 2013, 06:40 AM
I will go into this further later...Until then, enjoy!
The thing most notable to me was how the water capacitor would charge fairly easily to just under two volts potential; above that its internal resistance drops rapidly.  That break in linearity seems like something we should be focusing on; specifically, how do we increase that break point to some higher voltage.
I mentioned before that I did leakage tests on the wfc using distilled water. The leakage current rises exponentially with voltage, therefore you cannot charge the cell with a small current. You have to force more current than the water can use to the cell, that is the only way you can build up a voltage across the cell.[/quote]you can. spice supports programmable voltage and current sources. driven by capacitors and inductors integral and differential voltage and current behaviour can be simulated. that way a variable resistance can be emulated.

of course it needs parameter tables to implemente the simulation.

as an example for a saturable transformer core simulated in spice realized with programmable sources: http://www.beigebag.com/case_xfrmer_3.htm


Quote from Dog-One on August 24th, 2013, 10:25 AM
Quote from HMS-776 on August 23rd, 2013, 06:40 AM
I will go into this further later...Until then, enjoy!
The thing most notable to me was how the water capacitor would charge fairly easily to just under two volts potential; above that its internal resistance drops rapidly.  That break in linearity seems like something we should be focusing on; specifically, how do we increase that break point to some higher voltage.
the 2V threshold of water is the result of the liquid crystallic behaviour of water as explained by Gerald Pollack https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnGCMQ8TJ_g GERALD POLLACK: Electrically Structured Water, Part 1 | EU 2013

HMS-776

RE: VIC testing (Findings and notes)
« Reply #151, on August 24th, 2013, 12:41 PM »
Bussi04,

Can you do the same in multisim?

I will upload that file if anyone wants.  I must warn you though,  it's quite touchy.  Adjust anything too far either way and it changes the signal . That simulation can teach us some good things though.

Note that the simulation components are ideal so there are no parasitics in the circuit.
I have done simulations in which I added the parasitics to make it more 'real world' and I have to say it makes getting the circuit working nearly impossible.  
RE: VIC testing (Findings and notes)
« Reply #152, on August 24th, 2013, 11:12 PM »
Bussi04,

Here are my measurements using a 3 inch coaxial cell (identical to Stan's WFC setup) filled with distilled water, tested at 70 degrees F. I connected the cell directly to my 0-60V DC power supply and slowly turned up the voltage as I tried to take note each time the leakage current rose by 10mA.

[attachment=4101]

I think I actually need to do the measurements again, but do them using 5 second pulses or so, then turning the cell off for the same time so we can cause the polarization to go back to 0 each time. If I remember correctly the polarization relaxation time of water is 2 seconds.

-We still have a lot of work to do...




securesupplies

RE: VIC testing (Findings and notes)
« Reply #153, on August 26th, 2013, 08:44 AM »
Hi Guys I just go contacted by a

EMI Filtering company

they are offering to build some test coils for me with stainless and ferrite

Can we put down from
what we know now the target spec should be and I will see what they say

Ideal Wish list please for coils and bobbins sec wise

1 vic bobbin1
Ferrite core desire size
bobbins1-4/5 and the winding and or
target out put we want
out put measurement desired


2 bobbin 2 injector
target wish list as above

I will ask them to suggest the solution from their current tech
and I will post their answer

If may be time to use a modern voltage controller and
get a coil professionally made with target spec in mind we may have much better results as worl has modernised alot now

and yes they have a app for that!! lol

Dan

HMS-776

RE: VIC testing (Findings and notes)
« Reply #154, on August 26th, 2013, 06:29 PM »
Quote from securesupplies on August 26th, 2013, 08:44 AM
Hi Guys I just go contacted by a

EMI Filtering company

they are offering to build some test coils for me with stainless and ferrite

Can we put down from
what we know now the target spec should be and I will see what they say

Ideal Wish list please for coils and bobbins sec wise

1 vic bobbin1
Ferrite core desire size
bobbins1-4/5 and the winding and or
target out put we want
out put measurement desired


2 bobbin 2 injector
target wish list as above

I will ask them to suggest the solution from their current tech
and I will post their answer

If may be time to use a modern voltage controller and
get a coil professionally made with target spec in mind we may have much better results as worl has modernised alot now

and yes they have a app for that!! lol

Dan
Honestly,  I'm not sure what to recommend.  As I mentioned before I'm stuck on the next design (have been for several months). All I know from my testing is that you need something which can provide more current (see my post titled "Notes from the replications of others). It has some good information. I'm still stuck step charging only to 20v.


FaradayEZ

RE: VIC testing (Findings and notes)
« Reply #155, on October 2nd, 2013, 08:44 PM »
Quote from HMS-776 on August 26th, 2013, 06:29 PM
Honestly,  I'm not sure what to recommend.  As I mentioned before I'm stuck on the next design (have been for several months). All I know from my testing is that you need something which can provide more current (see my post titled "Notes from the replications of others). It has some good information. I'm still stuck step charging only to 20v.
Then isn't it time to leave the coils and use a circuit board to mimic the coils outcomes?

I thought that was one option lynx thought about to be possible.

Then the parasitic stuff is also gone..

HMS-776

RE: VIC testing (Findings and notes)
« Reply #156, on October 3rd, 2013, 06:41 PM »Last edited on October 4th, 2013, 06:55 AM by HMS-776
Quote
Then isn't it time to leave the coils and use a circuit board to mimic the coils outcomes?

I thought that was one option lynx thought about to be possible.

Then the parasitic stuff is also gone..
Yes, if that is the direction you want to go.

Basically what the VIC does is output a continuous current which resembles a full wave rectified AC waveform.

Meyer's early setup (The Electrical Polarization Process black box) did just that using an autotransformer and a full wave bridge rectifier.


Farrah Day

RE: VIC testing (Findings and notes)
« Reply #157, on October 4th, 2013, 02:57 AM »Last edited on October 4th, 2013, 03:00 AM by Farrah Day
Quote from Matt Watts on August 24th, 2013, 10:25 AM
The thing most notable to me was how the water capacitor would charge fairly easily to just under two volts potential; above that its internal resistance drops rapidly.  That break in linearity seems like something we should be focusing on; specifically, how do we increase that break point to some higher voltage.
Matt, this is the basis for the operation of commercial  Electric Double-Layer Capacitors. They are only very low voltage, but very high capacitance. The voltage of these caps has to stay below the threshold to initiate electrolysis.

Unlike us, using SS electrodes, commercial EDL capacitors use activated carbon as electrodes as it has a massive surface area (something like the area of a football pitch in a 1 cm cube package!). The total over-voltage potential required to initiate electrolysis is also slightly higher when using carbon electrodes, so electrolysis does not initiate until around 3.5 volts.

I don't think we can raise the threshold at which electrolysis initiates in our WFCs, but if we do some things very fast, we might be able to create other reactions that evolve gas, before Faraday electrolysis has time to take place - or in addition to Faraday electrolysis taking place.

Ironically, many scientists are working to reduce the threshold at which normal electrolysis initiates, with various catalysts, because the lower the over-voltage potential, the more power efficient standard Faraday electrolysis is.

Webmug

RE: VIC testing (Findings and notes)
« Reply #158, on October 25th, 2013, 01:48 PM »
Hi,

I think we need to study the "VIC transformer" in detail.

Here I post a video of the waveform I have, doing some parameter adjustments (pulse frequency, gate duty cycle and voltage amplitude) on the primary coil.

Note. measured between (virtual) gnd and resonant charging choke B+

I need feedback on this, let me know what you think!

Br,
Webmug


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTmh59d6DF4

Lynx

RE: VIC testing (Findings and notes)
« Reply #159, on October 25th, 2013, 02:52 PM »
Quote from Webmug on October 25th, 2013, 01:48 PM
Note. measured between (virtual) gnd and resonant charging choke B+

I need feedback on this, let me know what you think!
Do you feed this to a WFC also?
Are there any increased gas output when step charging takes place?
Thanks.

HMS-776

RE: VIC testing (Findings and notes)
« Reply #160, on October 25th, 2013, 08:03 PM »
Quote from Webmug on October 25th, 2013, 01:48 PM
Hi,

I think we need to study the "VIC transformer" in detail.

Here I post a video of the waveform I have, doing some parameter adjustments (pulse frequency, gate duty cycle and voltage amplitude) on the primary coil.

Note. measured between (virtual) gnd and resonant charging choke B+

I need feedback on this, let me know what you think!

Br,
Webmug


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTmh59d6DF4
Looking good!  How much voltage are you getting across the cell,  600+?

You need to change your circuit so that when the pulse train ends the signal goes to 0V. Then the cell will discharge correctly.  (I also encountered that effect same problem,  I think I solved it by using a NAND gate instead of an AND gate (or maybe it was the other way around).

Webmug

RE: VIC testing (Findings and notes)
« Reply #161, on October 27th, 2013, 07:17 AM »
Quote from HMS-776 on October 25th, 2013, 08:03 PM
Looking good!  How much voltage are you getting across the cell,  600+?

You need to change your circuit so that when the pulse train ends the signal goes to 0V. Then the cell will discharge correctly.  (I also encountered that effect same problem,  I think I solved it by using a NAND gate instead of an AND gate (or maybe it was the other way around).
No WFC was connected.

This is the output measured over chokes output B+ and B-

Br,
Webmug


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwBpG3NMMJ8


gpssonar

RE: VIC testing (Findings and notes)
« Reply #162, on October 27th, 2013, 09:38 AM »Last edited on October 27th, 2013, 09:40 AM by gpssonar
Webmug, Step charging looks great. There should be a neg. potential step charge also which would give you around 1700 volts since your getting 850 volts positive potential. But It may be because your only measuring the positive potential. Good Job your on your way to getting it working.

Webmug

RE: VIC testing (Findings and notes)
« Reply #163, on October 27th, 2013, 09:57 AM »
Quote from gpssonar on October 27th, 2013, 09:38 AM
Webmug, do you have a neg. choke on your setup? Step charging looks great. There should be a neg. potential step charge also which would give you around 1700 volts since your getting 850 volts positive potential. But It may be because your only measuring the positive potential. Good Job your on your way to getting it working.
Yes, I use the "negative" choke in this test .

I'm measuring with a diff probe across the B+ and B-, test 2 video.

First I also thought it outputs negative voltage. But it doesn't output negative voltage only, not the waveform from the "positive" choke seen as inverted.

Would be nice to see if more experimenters have this output and we could compare our findings and "tune" it.
 
Br,
Webmug

HMS-776

RE: VIC testing (Findings and notes)
« Reply #164, on October 28th, 2013, 10:17 AM »
So,  if you're not connected to a wfc you must be charging the probe capacitance.  Looks like there is also a good deal of Leakage there.  What is the capacitance & impedance of your probes?

Webmug

RE: VIC testing (Findings and notes)
« Reply #165, on October 28th, 2013, 10:43 AM »
Quote from HMS-776 on October 28th, 2013, 10:17 AM
So,  if you're not connected to a wfc you must be charging the probe capacitance.  Looks like there is also a good deal of Leakage there.  What is the capacitance & impedance of your probes?
Don't think so, then it should charge at 120-180kHz
Input R 27MΩ Â±1%
Input C 2.5 PF ± 2% 2
Input Impedance 54 MΩ // 1.25 PF

Sirgoose

RE: VIC testing (Findings and notes)
« Reply #166, on November 1st, 2013, 08:37 PM »
As stated in Stan Meyer's "The Birth of a New Technology"; The output on the secondary will be 40kV @ 1mA.:exclamation: Which is 40 watts, so 12v on the primary divided by 40 watts is 3.33 Amps. So 12v @3.33A at the primary is what the Transformer must withstand in order to achieve the required voltage at the needed limited current. Which ends up being 3.6 Ohms of resistance on the primary side of the transformer winding and 3.24k ohms at the secondary for a matched impedance. The transformer Stan mostly talks about is the 1:30 ratio transformer. So this is the ratio i am using for my transformer and calculations as well. Since the ratio of the transformer squared times the primary resistance equals the secondary resistance.  Before resonance is achieved the output current will be around 360V@111ma on the secondary though.  Once resonance is hit it will then start to climb to 40KV@1mA. This is what i arrive at as far as the VIC Transformer operation. Has anybody been able to accurately make a transformer with these specs or similar to reproduce the VIC resonant condition. Maybe, just making the transformer and getting the correct waveforms with amplitude control and duty cycle control on the secondary winding?:huh: I know that was a lot to take in but am trying to reproduce the transformer but i don't have the money for a lot of the materials. It would be easier if i had a 3d printer but i don't have the money. :(
Any ways thanks for your time.

securesupplies

RE: VIC testing (Findings and notes)
« Reply #167, on November 2nd, 2013, 06:57 PM »
Quote from Sirgoose on November 1st, 2013, 08:37 PM
As stated in Stan Meyer's "The Birth of a New Technology"; The output on the secondary will be 40kV @ 1mA.:exclamation: Which is 40 watts, so 12v on the primary divided by 40 watts is 3.33 Amps. So 12v @3.33A at the primary is what the Transformer must withstand in order to achieve the required voltage at the needed limited current. Which ends up being 3.6 Ohms of resistance on the primary side of the transformer winding and 3.24k ohms at the secondary for a matched impedance. The transformer Stan mostly talks about is the 1:30 ratio transformer. So this is the ratio i am using for my transformer and calculations as well. Since the ratio of the transformer squared times the primary resistance equals the secondary resistance.  Before resonance is achieved the output current will be around 360V@111ma on the secondary though.  Once resonance is hit it will then start to climb to 40KV@1mA. This is what i arrive at as far as the VIC Transformer operation. Has anybody been able to accurately make a transformer with these specs or similar to reproduce the VIC resonant condition. Maybe, just making the transformer and getting the correct waveforms with amplitude control and duty cycle control on the secondary winding?:huh: I know that was a lot to take in but am trying to reproduce the transformer but i don't have the money for a lot of the materials. It would be easier if i had a 3d printer but i don't have the money. :(
Any ways thanks for your time.
THANK YOU  

THIS WAS A PRODUCTIVE POST
IS THIS FOR  Vic Style 1 or for the Injector bobbin
we can have this made

Dan
www.securesupplies.biz





Sirgoose

RE: VIC testing (Findings and notes)
« Reply #168, on November 2nd, 2013, 08:28 PM »Last edited on November 2nd, 2013, 09:07 PM by Sirgoose
Quote from securesupplies on November 2nd, 2013, 06:57 PM
Quote from Sirgoose on November 1st, 2013, 08:37 PM
If your able to construct the Transformer with a Primary, Secondary, Feedback, and 2 choke coils, then i would say go about it that way to reduce the potential of high voltage outside the transformer. I was aiming for making the water injector plugs so that could be done. Then after the capacitance of the water injector plugs is found out. I would make the resonant chokes the appropriate inductance value to put the resonant frequency around 5khz. For the transformer i was thinking 900ft of 16 AWG magnet wire for the primary to make up 3.6ohms. The magnet wire is able to withstand 3.7 Amps (very Conservatively) for Power Transmission. The skin effect doesn't start kicking in until 11Khz. We could obviously use a much smaller gauge for the secondary and resonant chokes. I am learning mainly through trail and error. I have never been able to get a transformer to work without it being connected straight to the supply. I have tried using resistors to compensate for the lack of resistance in the transformer but i could never get a working or clean signal. So the good LORD showed me that to prevent the loading of the IC circuitry , preserve energy, and get a clean signal. That i would have to make a transformer with the resistance i need provided by the coils on the transformer itself. I might be shady on some other details but i getting there and with every bodies help here, I'm sure we can figure this out.

Update: Its the VIC Style 1

Update 2: Injector bobbin or "VIC Style 2" is only the Resonant Chokes in a Multi-Spool Assembly. The description goes as followed, Bifilar wound resonant chokes networked together to form a "Voltage Inductment Network" that consists of multiple bifilar wound inductors that contribute to the next coils operation while inhibiting current flow.This stage uses 30 awg magnet wire; while the final stage of the VIC Multi-Coil Spool Assy uses  stainless steel composite coil wire (430 FIFR) that consists of both inductance and resistive properties which aids in amp restriction beyond the singular use of self inductance that have lower resistive values. This Final stage is called Stainless Steel Bifilar Coil-Stage Assy. It is connected between Magnet Coil Stage Assy and Water Gap to obtain optimum voltage to amp differential ratio. When assembled together the magnet wire bifilar coils are placed on the top of the stainless steel bifilar coils to maximize the mutual inductance coil field and to cause coil capacitance to help maintain and even increase pulse voltage amplitude while the resistive value of the S.S. coil wire performs the work of further restricting the flow of amps not inhibited by both self inductance fields.

Jeff Nading

RE: VIC testing (Findings and notes)
« Reply #169, on November 2nd, 2013, 09:38 PM »Last edited on November 3rd, 2013, 06:59 AM by Jeff Nading
Quote from Sirgoose on November 2nd, 2013, 08:28 PM
Quote from securesupplies on November 2nd, 2013, 06:57 PM
Quote from Sirgoose on November 1st, 2013, 08:37 PM
If your able to construct the Transformer with a Primary, Secondary, Feedback, and 2 choke coils, then i would say go about it that way to reduce the potential of high voltage outside the transformer. I was aiming for making the water injector plugs so that could be done. Then after the capacitance of the water injector plugs is found out. I would make the resonant chokes the appropriate inductance value to put the resonant frequency around 5khz. For the transformer i was thinking 900ft of 16 AWG magnet wire for the primary to make up 3.6ohms. The magnet wire is able to withstand 3.7 Amps (very Conservatively) for Power Transmission. The skin effect doesn't start kicking in until 11Khz. We could obviously use a much smaller gauge for the secondary and resonant chokes. I am learning mainly through trail and error. I have never been able to get a transformer to work without it being connected straight to the supply. I have tried using resistors to compensate for the lack of resistance in the transformer but i could never get a working or clean signal. So the good LORD showed me that to prevent the loading of the IC circuitry , preserve energy, and get a clean signal. That i would have to make a transformer with the resistance i need provided by the coils on the transformer itself. I might be shady on some other details but i getting there and with every bodies help here, I'm sure we can figure this out.

Update: Its the VIC Style 1

Update 2: Injector bobbin or "VIC Style 2" is only the Resonant Chokes in a Multi-Spool Assembly. The description goes as followed, Bifilar wound resonant chokes networked together to form a "Voltage Inductment Network" that consists of multiple bifilar wound inductors that contribute to the next coils operation while inhibiting current flow.This stage uses 30 awg magnet wire; while the final stage of the VIC Multi-Coil Spool Assy uses  stainless steel composite coil wire (430 FIFR) that consists of both inductance and resistive properties which aids in amp restriction beyond the singular use of self inductance that have lower resistive values. This Final stage is called Stainless Steel Bifilar Coil-Stage Assy. It is connected between Magnet Coil Stage Assy and Water Gap to obtain optimum voltage to amp differential ratio. When assembled together the magnet wire bifilar coils are placed on the top of the stainless steel bifilar coils to maximize the mutual inductance coil field and to cause coil capacitance to help maintain and even increase pulse voltage amplitude while the resistive value of the S.S. coil wire performs the work of further restricting the flow of amps not inhibited by both self inductance fields.
Sounds like a good plan Sirgoose, don't know of but a few working on the injectors, keep at it and good work/ thinking thus far. :cool::D:P

Sirgoose

RE: VIC testing (Findings and notes)
« Reply #170, on November 2nd, 2013, 09:57 PM »
Quote from Jeff Nading on November 2nd, 2013, 09:38 PM
Quote from Sirgoose on November 2nd, 2013, 08:28 PM
Quote from securesupplies on November 2nd, 2013, 06:57 PM
Quote from Sirgoose on November 1st, 2013, 08:37 PM
If your able to construct the Transformer with a Primary, Secondary, Feedback, and 2 choke coils, then i would say go about it that way to reduce the potential of high voltage outside the transformer. I was aiming for making the water injector plugs so that could be done. Then after the capacitance of the water injector plugs is found out. I would make the resonant chokes the appropriate inductance value to put the resonant frequency around 5khz. For the transformer i was thinking 900ft of 16 AWG magnet wire for the primary to make up 3.6ohms. The magnet wire is able to withstand 3.7 Amps (very Conservatively) for Power Transmission. The skin effect doesn't start kicking in until 11Khz. We could obviously use a much smaller gauge for the secondary and resonant chokes. I am learning mainly through trail and error. I have never been able to get a transformer to work without it being connected straight to the supply. I have tried using resistors to compensate for the lack of resistance in the transformer but i could never get a working or clean signal. So the good LORD showed me that to prevent the loading of the IC circuitry , preserve energy, and get a clean signal. That i would have to make a transformer with the resistance i need provided by the coils on the transformer itself. I might be shady on some other details but i getting there and with every bodies help here, I'm sure we can figure this out.

Update: Its the VIC Style 1

Update 2: Injector bobbin or "VIC Style 2" is only the Resonant Chokes in a Multi-Spool Assembly. The description goes as followed, Bifilar wound resonant chokes networked together to form a "Voltage Inductment Network" that consists of multiple bifilar wound inductors that contribute to the next coils operation while inhibiting current flow.This stage uses 30 awg magnet wire; while the final stage of the VIC Multi-Coil Spool Assy uses  stainless steel composite coil wire (430 FIFR) that consists of both inductance and resistive properties which aids in amp restriction beyond the singular use of self inductance that have lower resistive values. This Final stage is called Stainless Steel Bifilar Coil-Stage Assy. It is connected between Magnet Coil Stage Assy and Water Gap to obtain optimum voltage to amp differential ratio. When assembled together the magnet wire bifilar coils are placed on the top of the stainless steel bifilar coils to maximize the mutual inductance coil field and to cause coil capacitance to help maintain and even increase pulse voltage amplitude while the resistive value of the S.S. coil wire performs the work of further restricting the flow of amps not inhibited by both self inductance fields.
Sounds like a good plan Sirgoose, don't know of but a few working on the injectors, keep at and good work/ thinking thus far. :cool::D:P
I'm sorry that was a typo. I meant to say "I would aim for making the water injector plugs so that could be done. " I have been working on the technology and electronics design, but i am not a metal former or machinist. I know all the theory though to a tee pretty much.

Jeff Nading

RE: VIC testing (Findings and notes)
« Reply #171, on November 3rd, 2013, 06:58 AM »
Quote from Sirgoose on November 2nd, 2013, 09:57 PM
Quote from Jeff Nading on November 2nd, 2013, 09:38 PM
Quote from Sirgoose on November 2nd, 2013, 08:28 PM
Quote from securesupplies on November 2nd, 2013, 06:57 PM
Quote from Sirgoose on November 1st, 2013, 08:37 PM
If your able to construct the Transformer with a Primary, Secondary, Feedback, and 2 choke coils, then i would say go about it that way to reduce the potential of high voltage outside the transformer. I was aiming for making the water injector plugs so that could be done. Then after the capacitance of the water injector plugs is found out. I would make the resonant chokes the appropriate inductance value to put the resonant frequency around 5khz. For the transformer i was thinking 900ft of 16 AWG magnet wire for the primary to make up 3.6ohms. The magnet wire is able to withstand 3.7 Amps (very Conservatively) for Power Transmission. The skin effect doesn't start kicking in until 11Khz. We could obviously use a much smaller gauge for the secondary and resonant chokes. I am learning mainly through trail and error. I have never been able to get a transformer to work without it being connected straight to the supply. I have tried using resistors to compensate for the lack of resistance in the transformer but i could never get a working or clean signal. So the good LORD showed me that to prevent the loading of the IC circuitry , preserve energy, and get a clean signal. That i would have to make a transformer with the resistance i need provided by the coils on the transformer itself. I might be shady on some other details but i getting there and with every bodies help here, I'm sure we can figure this out.

Update: Its the VIC Style 1

Update 2: Injector bobbin or "VIC Style 2" is only the Resonant Chokes in a Multi-Spool Assembly. The description goes as followed, Bifilar wound resonant chokes networked together to form a "Voltage Inductment Network" that consists of multiple bifilar wound inductors that contribute to the next coils operation while inhibiting current flow.This stage uses 30 awg magnet wire; while the final stage of the VIC Multi-Coil Spool Assy uses  stainless steel composite coil wire (430 FIFR) that consists of both inductance and resistive properties which aids in amp restriction beyond the singular use of self inductance that have lower resistive values. This Final stage is called Stainless Steel Bifilar Coil-Stage Assy. It is connected between Magnet Coil Stage Assy and Water Gap to obtain optimum voltage to amp differential ratio. When assembled together the magnet wire bifilar coils are placed on the top of the stainless steel bifilar coils to maximize the mutual inductance coil field and to cause coil capacitance to help maintain and even increase pulse voltage amplitude while the resistive value of the S.S. coil wire performs the work of further restricting the flow of amps not inhibited by both self inductance fields.
Sounds like a good plan Sirgoose, don't know of but a few working on the injectors, keep at and good work/ thinking thus far. :cool::D:P
I'm sorry that was a typo. I meant to say "I would aim for making the water injector plugs so that could be done. " I have been working on the technology and electronics design, but i am not a metal former or machinist. I know all the theory though to a tee pretty much.
I still want to encourage anyone who has the will to, to work out solutions for the injectors, for this is the end result of Meyer's work and will bring us much closer to a climax of such, thanks Sirgoose. :cool::D:P

securesupplies

RE: VIC testing (Findings and notes)
« Reply #172, on November 4th, 2013, 01:55 AM »
OK Sir Goose

I have access to skill coil builder and factories enough to get samples ,
which we should all work on . They may have skills to improve the performance of our desired specs faster

It is very hard work to keep it simple.

Please post the ideal specs and charateristics of your posts for
cell vic and the injector vic

target rating measurements and any suggest wire sizes.

1
4 bobbin cell vic spec


2
INjector boobin spec




I will than pursue factories here with every one to get some thing to test

back


Dan





Sirgoose

RE: VIC testing (Findings and notes)
« Reply #173, on November 23rd, 2013, 09:36 PM »Last edited on November 24th, 2013, 12:29 PM by Sirgoose
Quote from securesupplies on November 4th, 2013, 01:55 AM
OK Sir Goose

I have access to skill coil builder and factories enough to get samples ,
which we should all work on . They may have skills to improve the performance of our desired specs faster

It is very hard work to keep it simple.

Please post the ideal specs and charateristics of your posts for
cell vic and the injector vic

target rating measurements and any suggest wire sizes.

1
4 bobbin cell vic spec


2
INjector boobin spec




I will than pursue factories here with every one to get some thing to test

back


Dan
Thanks great Dan, I'm sorry for the really late respond; i didn't get a email response that you had replied. I have been working things out with the transformer specs, the type, and gauge of wire needed to achieve needed results.

I have made an Excel spreadsheet that will give an exact resistance rating of the transformer primary and what the resistance of the secondary should be based on that.
I have strong reason to believe that because of the audio frequencies that Stan was using he was able to squeeze more ampacity out of the wire gauge he was using for his primary winding. I came to this conclusion because after i finished the Excel Sheet, I plugged in all the values and everything using the original Vic bobbin with the Pri, Sec, Feedback, and two resonant chokes.

With the industry standard of a wires ampacity (Power Transmission Rating) and its resistance. I had to use 16 AWG wire for a 3.7 Amp rating and 4 Ohms per 1000ft. With this i came no where near my mark of 3.6 Ohms for 3.3 Amps off of a 12v battery. So i switched to 26 awg and that got me 5.747408333 ohms with a bobbin fulled to the brim. So we can work around in that area.


The Excel spreadsheet isn't completely fool proof but it works perfectly if your careful to watch out for the Layers Cell and how many Layers are actually being added.

P.S. I will get the other dimensions when i can find the time.
 
P.S.S I took down the excel spreadsheet because i uploaded the newest one in a later post.

securesupplies

RE: VIC testing (Findings and notes)
« Reply #174, on November 24th, 2013, 10:38 AM »
Quote from Sirgoose on November 23rd, 2013, 09:36 PM
Quote from securesupplies on November 4th, 2013, 01:55 AM
OK Sir Goose

I have access to skill coil builder and factories enough to get samples ,
which we should all work on . They may have skills to improve the performance of our desired specs faster

It is very hard work to keep it simple.

Please post the ideal specs and charateristics of your posts for
cell vic and the injector vic

target rating measurements and any suggest wire sizes.

1
4 bobbin cell vic spec


2
INjector boobin spec




I will than pursue factories here with every one to get some thing to test

back


Dan
Thanks great Dan, I'm sorry for the really late respond; i didn't get a email response that you had replied. I have been working things out with the transformer specs, the type, and gauge of wire needed to achieve needed results.

I have made an Excel spreadsheet that will give an exact resistance rating of the transformer primary and what the resistance of the secondary should be based on that.
I have strong reason to believe that because of the audio frequencies that Stan was using he was able to squeeze more ampacity out of the wire gauge he was using for his primary winding. I came to this conclusion because after i finished the Excel Sheet, I plugged in all the values and everything using the original Vic bobbin with the Pri, Sec, Feedback, and two resonant chokes.

With the industry standard of a wires ampacity (Power Transmission Rating) and its resistance. I had to use 16 AWG wire for a 3.7 Amp rating and 4 Ohms per 1000ft. With this i came no where near my mark of 3.6 Ohms for 3.3 Amps off of a 12v battery. So i switched to 26 awg and that got me 5.747408333 ohms with a bobbin fulled to the brim. So we can work around in that area.


The Excel spreadsheet isn't completely fool proof but it works perfectly if your careful to watch out for the Layers Cell and how many Layers are actually being added.

P.S. I will get the other dimensions when i can find the time.
this is a good start we needed this along time ago can we build on the extra value  and add in tab\ for round bobbins

dan