The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman 2017

~Russ

Re: The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman 2017
« Reply #475, on November 23rd, 2017, 12:25 PM »Last edited on November 23rd, 2017, 12:32 PM
Ok parallel. Vs singe.

100/46 litz 100feet.

26awg equlivent.

Wrapped togther.

Same Inductance...

Turns?  Not sure.

According to the math. Its 100 turns more. For the same current...

So the MMF should be 100x more... I'll have to measure that later. 

Should. Be about the same amount of copper though...

Its about the same resystnace. To its to my understanding that the magnetic feild will be the same. Even though the amp turns states it will be 100x more

Somthing tells me that the only way to do the math is LB of copper / turn

Not amp turns. This dose not work for parallel wires me thinks.

Becuse if the wire was the same 26 awg size. But 100 more strands it would make alot More sence. All the other values were also verry close.

He dose state in the book that it would be the equivalent of the same bigger wire size.
But the voltage could be lowered to get the same effect.   More to think about

Skin effect and proximinity effect needs more attention

Copper LB is the factor...  Becuse to my math I can get 10H in a 10mm coil of 44 wire...  And the same H with alot more big wire. So I think at some point the H dose not even madder. Its the mass...

~Russ



~Russ

Re: The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman 2017
« Reply #476, on November 23rd, 2017, 12:43 PM »
My question is still..  What happens if I conect those small wires in series ?  Would it change anything? 
~Russ

~Russ

Re: The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman 2017
« Reply #477, on November 23rd, 2017, 12:47 PM »
This gose back to the...  What ever takes the lowest amount of input for the amount of atoms aligned the better...  That thought means. More mass... Same input...   More output. ~Russ

talisman

Re: The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman 2017
« Reply #478, on November 23rd, 2017, 12:59 PM »

Thoughts again. The time constant is the most missing in assumptions. Equal in math is instant but time says it is not instant it is dynamic.

Any ho I thought There might be a zero or near zero voltage condition with apparent power.
So If there are zero volts reading it could be below the 100th of a volt instrument range (if connected proper).
.0001 volt needs 10,000 amp for 1 watt. Can amps be stored? If amps are current they are pure electrical energy.
Volts are defined as potential energy of type not active energy. So the thought is if real active dynamic energy
is electricity then the perfect math would be amps alone = energy and with next to nil volts (is it even possible to
have zero volts at any point in the universe) no possibility of expanding those amps.

 

~Russ

Re: The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman 2017
« Reply #479, on November 23rd, 2017, 01:17 PM »
Again. I think back to the book. Its quite clear in there...

I'm quite sure that if you parallel wires. You have to match the current. If you do you will match the LB... 

~Russ

~Russ

Re: The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman 2017
« Reply #480, on November 23rd, 2017, 01:24 PM »Last edited on November 23rd, 2017, 03:23 PM
Amps/lb.turns.

The more I think about this the more I see that its the LB. So the equation is something on the order of

Amp turns * lb.

However for parallel wires. This changes. There is a calculation that needs to keep the amps the same. So for 1/2 the resistnace.  We need 2* the lingth. Or 2* the copper.

This works.

 Me thinks 100lb 56 in parallel 30 awg. @21 ohms. Will be hard.

However. Each wire has 56th the current. So that's somthing to think about. We need to understand the wire length better...

Makes me lean in to less strands. Or 1 strand. But voltage would be high... 

Strangely enough this makes me want to go back to the 5awg monster more than anything. It makes the Most  sence to start with.

~Russ


~Russ

Re: The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman 2017
« Reply #482, on November 23rd, 2017, 04:07 PM »Last edited on November 23rd, 2017, 04:22 PM
ok... the calculations match up... 5AWG,

i see where im stumbling. i keep doing this but i see again..

its the charge time.  inductance is so big. 20-40 H

in his 5AWG motor 4500Lb of copper.

he states that it takes .1 sec to rise .5A in the coil. @200V input.
so think, if we charge this thing up, we start to build momentum. over some time we build ALOT of momentum.
Every time we break the circuit we get a massive water hammer.
the is where the excess is generated. BUT we know the current takes time to gt out.
look at this curve. ( see attachment)

Once again we talked about over the last 4 months that we need play in a window of the charge rate. ( 1000V cap, use 500-550V to do your work... )  so a charge rate that slow in an inductor would work really nice....

now what do we get from an inductor but not a cap? a transient spike... caps dont have the some momentum built up.

charge it 1/2 way, slam it on and off rapidly... collect the transient ( this one will have current also)

The last thing that i need to get in my head around is the rotation of the rotor..  ( this is something i still need to wrap my head around)

 if we keep flipping poles. how can we deal with such a high charge time?

it would take forever to revere that current for a rotor to spin at any fast rate?

the magnetic field dose not revere when voltage is turns off right? so it has to be completely reversed.

again, this goes back to coil shorting at the peak of the wave... when current it at its maximum... ( inertia)

~Russ

read pages 24-35 ( book numbers) to get all the calculations you ever needed... we are so lucky ( blessed) to have those notes... and Newman Theory.

sonnet

Re: The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman 2017
« Reply #483, on November 23rd, 2017, 04:33 PM »Last edited on November 23rd, 2017, 04:35 PM
Throwing it out there
cant we reverse the one coil winding and buck the coils with a nsns magnet. the next pole will be be aligned then

~Russ

Re: The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman 2017
« Reply #484, on November 23rd, 2017, 05:35 PM »
Quote from sonnet on November 23rd, 2017, 04:33 PM
Throwing it out there
cant we reverse the one coil winding and buck the coils with a nsns magnet. the next pole will be be aligned then
I'm sure there is a better configuration.. 

But to far ahead. Altho this "simple" motor generator looks eazy.

We must master what he teaches for us to advance.

The questions we are asking are already answerd if we know the metrial.

;)   just saying. Lol.

All good stuff though. One day at a time.

~Russ

Matt Watts

Re: The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman 2017
« Reply #485, on November 23rd, 2017, 11:34 PM »Last edited on November 23rd, 2017, 11:58 PM
Quote from ~Russ on November 23rd, 2017, 04:07 PM
if we keep flipping poles. how can we deal with such a high charge time?
In a non-super conductor, you must have some voltage to have a current correct?

The voltage is instantaneous, which means the current necessary for alignment is instantaneous.  Those Aether particles will flip as soon as the voltage is applied.  They won't push out of the conductor, but they will be aligned.  So the voltage now pushes them out and concentrates the magnetic field on the rotor.

So far so good?  If not, just think pulse--everything happens that you need in a pulse.

What did I explain to you about resistance the other night?  Specifically the resistance encountered in an inductor?  Rotating discs remember.  When those things come out of alignment and begin to buck the binding, current flows.  So how do we fix that?

First we have to recognize a different form of current.  One type (the kind we are interested in) is purely an alignment of Aether particles.  The second (the type we all think of when the word current is used) is more like electron flow or something associated with heat.  This is a current that begins when perfect alignment starts to slip or deviate.

Solution to your conundrum:

Drop the voltage before real current starts to flow.  Remember, for a very short instance in time an inductor is actually an insulator (as far as current is concerned).  For voltage, it's just the opposite--in a short instance it is a very good conductor.  The larger the inductor the more pronounced this will seem.
Quote from ~Russ on November 23rd, 2017, 04:07 PM
it would take forever to revere that current for a rotor to spin at any fast rate?
Don't charge up the coil Russ.  There is no need to do this.  Just bump it very briefly, let off (relaxation & reguaging time), then hit it again.  When the rotor comes around and needs to be pushed in the opposite direction, do the same thing with reverse polarity.  You can always grab the back EMF and re-use this energy too.  There won't be much of it there because you're not going to slam the coil with current anyway (like in that video you posted above).  So don't get all twisted up in the back EMF or counter EMF.  It's not a huge deal here.  It's just something you can use to make things more efficient if you want to; certainly not compulsory.

A Newman motor probably shouldn't even be called a motor at all.  It doesn't work like a motor we are all familiar with.  Joe's device works on totally different principals.  His setup is the gold standard for what a true pulse motor should look & work like.

You got to get into Newman's mind Russ.  This stuff was simple to him; if it's not simple to you, you're not thinking right.
Quote from ~Russ on November 23rd, 2017, 05:35 PM
We must master what he teaches for us to advance.
Roger that.

d3x0r

Re: The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman 2017
« Reply #486, on November 24th, 2017, 03:45 AM »
A coil that is 2KH will take a long time at 100W to get up to max current.  If you don't have the field saturated, it won't be as big of a forward EMF as you think it is....
Some quick reading (Eric Dollard's Lone Pine Writings, retrieved when it was still free)
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B812EYiKwtkkRGFZZTNQZHNfVE0

Falstad SIM with 1000V power, 10K Resistance and 2400H coil....  http://www.falstad.com/circuit/circuitjs.html?cct=$+1+0.00009999999999999999+10.20027730826997+50+5+43%0As+384+80+448+80+0+0+false%0Al+384+80+384+352+0+2400+0.09870743517858276%0Av+448+352+448+80+0+0+40+1000+0+0+0.5%0Ar+384+352+448+352+0+10000%0Ao+1+64+0+4099+1280+0.1+0+2+1+3%0A

After 1 second the coil is up to 99.4mA current.

So sure... using 100W energy over a long time, you can get much watt quickly by opening the circuit ( a huge voltage spike)
But the power (energy over time) is still the same... 100Ws (watt-seconds)

a 1H coil only takes  500us to get up to 99mA current.  so that's only 50uWs to charge it to full...  and it then cannot store any more energy.
You'r calculations on your hour and a half long video are all corect, but you forgot Time.

Since it is hard to wind a coil that is even 1H it's hard to see the time delay to charge so it would seem all coils should be instantaneously at full current... but this just isn't true.

Tavote

Re: The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman 2017
« Reply #487, on November 24th, 2017, 04:57 AM »
Quote from Matt Watts on November 23rd, 2017, 11:34 PM
...
The voltage is instantaneous, which means the current necessary for alignment is instantaneous.  Those Aether particles will flip as soon as the voltage is applied.  They won't push out of the conductor, but they will be aligned.  So the voltage now pushes them out and concentrates the magnetic field on the rotor.
...
Drop the voltage before real current starts to flow.  Remember, for a very short instance in time an inductor is actually an insulator (as far as current is concerned).  For voltage, it's just the opposite--in a short instance it is a very good conductor.  The larger the inductor the more pronounced this will seem.
...
Totally agree with you because look at what Meyer did (click on the uploaded picture).
He used voltage potential difference to align the atoms of water and if you just change the water that is between the positive and the negative plate for a copper wire, then it should be the same.

The voltage potential difference should align the atoms and thus create the magnetic field.
Magnet have a magnetic field that comes from the atoms that are aligned but, do you constantly apply voltage (or / and) current to a magnet ?
no, because the atoms are already aligned and they can't disaligne by them self so fast like copper does.
Newman said: "Copper is so magnetic, that it deceives the observer" meaning fast atom disaligning.

Feel free to tell me that im wrong but, if Matt is right then you don't need the current in the coil, it will only stand in the way.

What i said above is my observation from my viewpoint and my knowledge.

Best regards,
Tavote


chuff1

Re: The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman 2017
« Reply #489, on November 24th, 2017, 08:52 AM »
I had a thought about what is happening in a superconductor that explains how atoms act.
If the sub atomic particles in the supercooled material are slowed from the internal spinning
of the electrons around the nucleus easier than if you tried to slow them by applying a voltage/
current through the wire.  If that is so then the slowing down of the electrons movement is
the cause of the magnetic field, in which the spinning electron is so tightly spun into the
nucleus that it doesnt show an external field.  But if you slowed it down by pulled it away
from the nucleus it would spin out into a farther position from the center like an ice skater
pulling their hands in close to spin fast and extend them to slow. 

~Russ

Re: The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman 2017
« Reply #490, on November 24th, 2017, 09:11 AM »
Chuff. One must be really carful thinking this way. 
Cooling somthing takes away heat.  Heat is the caiotic movement of all the atoms. The spins never slow down. 

If they did super conductors would not work.

More coralated movement with the atoms the eazer that are to alighn.  That's what cooling dose. ~Russ

sonnet

Re: The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman 2017
« Reply #491, on November 24th, 2017, 09:21 AM »Last edited on November 24th, 2017, 09:28 AM
@chuff
My understanding chuff is that they are not slowed unlike the vibration of the atoms, which atoms are most definitely have mass, the electron is a fuzzy charge.
This is what electronics points you too.
But in physics they are viewed as having a similarity to a mass particle state when exchanging energy.

I believe and theories that like a photon they love to stay in the energy form, only showing themselves as having a property of mass when they bump into another particle of matter or electron. This catalyst happens when the electron is forced to leave its atom based mass family and move into a area of superposition outside of the mass. The electron in this external state is entangled because of its ability to want to pair with its fellow electrons in the lattice that copper atoms form when in the wire , Full pairing cannot happen until the temperature is down to 10oK where the electrons are given the name cooper pairs.
Saying that they have a 'property of mass' is not saying they have mass
'Viewed' still does not state they are mass

~Russ

Re: The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman 2017
« Reply #492, on November 24th, 2017, 10:58 AM »Last edited on November 24th, 2017, 11:10 AM
Quote from Matt Watts on November 23rd, 2017, 11:34 PM
In a non-super conductor, you must have some voltage to have a current correct?

The voltage is instantaneous, which means the current necessary for alignment is instantaneous.  Those Aether particles will flip as soon as the voltage is applied.  They won't push out of the conductor, but they will be aligned.  So the voltage now pushes them out and concentrates the magnetic field on the rotor.

So far so good?  If not, just think pulse--everything happens that you need in a pulse.

What did I explain to you about resistance the other night?  Specifically the resistance encountered in an inductor?  Rotating discs remember.  When those things come out of alignment and begin to buck the binding, current flows.  So how do we fix that?

First we have to recognize a different form of current.  One type (the kind we are interested in) is purely an alignment of Aether particles.  The second (the type we all think of when the word current is used) is more like electron flow or something associated with heat.  This is a current that begins when perfect alignment starts to slip or deviate.

Solution to your conundrum:

Drop the voltage before real current starts to flow.  Remember, for a very short instance in time an inductor is actually an insulator (as far as current is concerned).  For voltage, it's just the opposite--in a short instance it is a very good conductor.  The larger the inductor the more pronounced this will seem.

Don't charge up the coil Russ.  There is no need to do this.  Just bump it very briefly, let off (relaxation & reguaging time), then hit it again.  When the rotor comes around and needs to be pushed in the opposite direction, do the same thing with reverse polarity.  You can always grab the back EMF and re-use this energy too.  There won't be much of it there because you're not going to slam the coil with current anyway (like in that video you posted above).  So don't get all twisted up in the back EMF or counter EMF.  It's not a huge deal here.  It's just something you can use to make things more efficient if you want to; certainly not compulsory.

A Newman motor probably shouldn't even be called a motor at all.  It doesn't work like a motor we are all familiar with.  Joe's device works on totally different principals.  His setup is the gold standard for what a true pulse motor should look & work like.

You got to get into Newman's mind Russ.  This stuff was simple to him; if it's not simple to you, you're not thinking right.


Roger that.
Thanks Matt, your right, if its not easy, were not thinking right... ( step back, reevaluate)

studding more of what Joe teaches i came up with this:

some of this is directly from the book, some slightly view from my prospective.

Chapter 3:


A spinning gyroscope will move at right angles to the force acting upon it. Hence as the gyro particles encounter the particles composing the conductor wire, they move “up, or down” the conductor. At right angles to the direction that they first encounter the conductor.
It’s the spin, not the direction of the path down the flux line that do the interaction.
So each atom row expands to a flux line… width and height and length of the row of atoms create the flux lines. theses are REAL lines in space...

My thoughts:
This is why you can make a bigger magnetic field with more current in a smaller coil, but if you were to look at the flux lines you would see there is less. there just more spread out.   However in more copper with the same current you can have more interactions more flux lines, this makes a bigger field with the same input. it really is about the mass or flux lines.  ( like my expandable pipe in a coil… more “ surface area” of interactions, gyro particles )


chapter 4.


The magnetic field is not generated by the current. Copper is already magnetic, relative to the speed of the alignment of the atom.  As well as the action reaction effect of the energy released ( gyro particles)

Current in is the same as current out, but when shut off, and shorted, there is still current flowing in the coil.  Where did that current come from?
So there is an “extra” “gallon” of current in the coil that is relisted in the coil. (magnetic field) 
As the field expands, then collapses, the particles try to return to where they came from ( like in sonnet’s electron spring idea.)   The mechanical action of the gyro particles strike other atoms as they go back in, at some degree of right angle and moving at right angles to that force. 

Production efficiency and conversion efficiency.

my thoughts:
In a small coil, there is insignificant current flow to generate the desired effect. When switched off and shorted out. (inertia) 
A much larger coil of the same resistance will have a lot more inertia
Also note that the inductance is greater when shorted. And if the coil is energized then shorted the current will flow for a long time in a massive coil.

theses below are subject to change, I'm trying to calculate some stuff.

 Desired Result (Flow of kinetic energy or inertia.)  = inductance * Turns/lbs.  More Inductance the greater resistance to change, the more the mass the more inertia it has. The more turns it has …( need to add here. i think the turns are already included in the inductance. so it might just be : Desired Result  = inductance * lbs ( flux line interactions) )

There is no such thing as “stored potential” in a magnetic field. Its kinetic! ( gyro particles spinning and moving at the speed of light)


Flow of kinetic energy.... all the time. Even in a capacitor... ITS ALL KINETIC! there is no such thing as "potential energy"...

Magnets...  on the same pole end has particles in 2 directions... This is why we get an AC wave on the output of a conventional coil. "cancellation effect" See diagram 19-A(chapter 8 )

attached explains why the current is held for a long time. the magnet plays a big roll in this. also note the poles of the magnet are headed to the ends of the coil... ( see figure 20-C in chapter 8 ) as this happens the magnet is on its side, each side has the same effect. when the poles of the magnet are adjacent with the coil there is a " canceling effect" (See diagram 19-B and 19B1 (chapter 8 ) )

so the edges of the magnet are trying to alight with the coil's winding. this ADDS to the current flowing in the coil... there for when you turn off the current you get an even higher current "BEMF" or transient spike... again its a huge amount of inertia.

more to add later...  if we STOP thinking for our self's UNTIL we master what Newman teachings THEN bring back our thinking for ours self... we will have this mastered in no time... and yes, it should be "easy" at that point to advance it...

more to do...

~Russ

sonnet

Re: The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman 2017
« Reply #493, on November 24th, 2017, 12:22 PM »
Nice one russ, makes sense reading that. To many who are not following the threads and reading the book it goes against their understanding.

So don't worry if they challenge, it will be the start of many challenges you are to overcome. I have faith that you can do it.
Still walking with you. you are on the right path.
Regards

talisman

Re: The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman 2017
« Reply #494, on November 24th, 2017, 12:36 PM »
Quote
Flow of kinetic energy.... all the time. Even in a capacitor... ITS ALL KINETIC! there is no such thing as "potential energy"...
This is true at one level (universal) and leaves small trace of doubt about the potential energy drummed in to our heads for (practical?)
 generalization.

With potential energy an analogy could be a rock near the edge of a cliff. They also say potential energy for pressure tanks and for voltage
potential.

True the rock is kinetic inside itself at the atom and lower level even before acting out the form of potential target energy (gravity).

For every conversion there is time to convert even if it is in nanoseconds a physical thing cannot be both things at the same instant
one follows the other.

~Russ

Re: The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman 2017
« Reply #495, on November 24th, 2017, 12:41 PM »Last edited on November 24th, 2017, 12:44 PM
I said I needed to get. My head around this more. So here you go...

The magnet litraly pushes its self while inducing current in to the coil.

~Russ

Sorry sloppy hand wrighting.

~Russ

Re: The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman 2017
« Reply #496, on November 24th, 2017, 12:47 PM »Last edited on November 24th, 2017, 12:53 PM
No..... 

That rock.  Even after it falls off the clff and lands at a rest STiLL has "potental energy" in the form of kenetic energy!!!!!

At the atom level.  If you could alighn all the atoms in that rock. At that point you will see it...  In the form of the feild. That's allways in the rock. At all times!  Its just  "not excessible by man" as Newman sais

There is ALLWAYS MOTION in EVERYTHING at ALL times!!!

~Russ

sonnet

Re: The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman 2017
« Reply #497, on November 24th, 2017, 12:56 PM »
Gut feeling,
when the magnet is parallel to the coil field, I don't like the idea of the coils field moving into the permanent magnet mass, at the poles end it's ok...but not on the parallel.
Why?
because the coil field enters the mass of the  permanent magnet and can disrupt the atom alignment of the perm magnet...can you see this or do you want a drawing.