@ magneton
Really don't understand what you are trying to say in that last post....was you expecting something to happen?

it is just an observation... the magnet moves on it's own when you give it a little push... but it rotates back against the push

yer ok. I saw a little bit of lenz law across the copper maybe caused by a skin effect around the loop of the wire circumference. bit like dropping a magnet down through a copper pipe....right?

Are you reading newmans book?? if so how you doing..

yeah, I read it a few years ago... re-reading it again now

I guess the main thing with my little video is how strong the rotation is...
 it almost acts as if it wants to take off on its own...
I was thinking the rotation may be visual evidence of the gyroscopic
effect Newman keeps talking about...

Electrical generators of every description could in a way be thought of as concentrators. They are producing an energy mass state of a given quantity and quality at a particular location in space time. Tthere is less physical energy in the void mostly than the ambient atmosphere or in a burst of electrical energy.

Possible to build this to work on the details but nice to know how it works in mind before.   

Quote

I guess the main thing with my little video is how strong the rotation is...
 it almost acts as if it wants to take off on its own...
I was thinking the rotation may be visual evidence of the gyroscopic
effect Newman keeps talking about...

Have no doubt it is...
but imagine that the little magnet was sat upon the coil (in fact you may struggle to get it close to the coil) when magnetic flux is emanating out of the coil...the magnet would indeed take off.

That's what Newman is showing you....A coil with a short/loop (your coil wasn't shorted / looped by the end of each wire from the coil but was by a eddy current running around the wire circumference)

Think of each commutator stage as an entirely different electrical circuit in your head....they are not connected is the best way to picture it.

 On Newman's motor, in the segment 'short' stage of the commutator- a electron flow had already been added to the coil prior to the commutator reaching the 'short'segment of the commutator. This induced a magnetic field in the coil.
So think of it like this, the coil is sat there energised in the new part of the circuit called the 'short' (think of it literally, as looking at your coil there in the vid -no batteries connected - just a coil that is magnetised and has the ends of the wire shorted/looped).When I say is magnetised I mean someone could have walked into your room and up to the table there with a compass and if you put a compass near it it would deflect the needle.

The pre stored magnetic field in the coil wants to collapse, in doing so will create what we would normally call BEMF but it's now in a different circuit so it's not BEMF but EMF relative to that circuit.

 So it does collapse but as it starts doing that,  it is creating electron flow in the loop instantly and when you create electron flow you create a magnetic flux.

at the 'short' stage you could think of it more like a permanent magnet but not literally in this example , The magnetic field in the 'short' stage struggles to collapse and dissipate the field,  holding the magnet field over a longer time. Our currents flowing here but it's not coming from our battery...get it

The current in the commutator 'short' stage is flowing around the coils closed short/loop effectively useless and disembodied from the battery circuit.

This is where I was stating we don't want the current in the circuit i.e. the battery circuit....the current is stuck in the coil loop until all the magnetic stored energy has been dissipated (that is as much as we can dissipate it given time scales) when the switch is thrown again on the commutator segment to 'fire' this is so as to join the looped/shorted coil back to the battery circuit with no residue (very little) current. But the moment it is joined back to the battery the battery current is flowing again. Note.. all our electrons are there back in the whole circuit.

You see in a stand alone LC circuit with no other magnetic fields present. the chicken and egg would be you start with a charge in the capacitor, what Newman is doing is starting with a magnetic field in the inductor coil.

ok, thanks for the explanation

study.... you will want to read the rest of the text in the book as well... but theses give you wonderful visuals.

This is to try to get you to understand the dynamics and interactions of the wire and magnet and the current and voltage, and switching cycle.
look at step 1 real closely.... This is why the interaction happens. if you "miss" the wire, you dont get the same result. This is what i was trying to explain to you Matt.

it seems counter intuitive...
However i will say that my understanding is growing.

Because there is a difference in the magnet vs the wire.

Meshing gears attract, now the thing that gets confusing is that not only can they mesh, but they can also "couple" or be anywhere in between.

so this is confusing due to the odd thinking that the lines of force them self are not "meshing" ( so coming our of one place in the magnet) however we are looking at other fields from a different magnet. those are the ones that mesh or dont mesh...

its to my understanding that the "lines of force" are REAL LINES. so those spinning partials coming from the SAME magnet DO NOT hit each other. BUT they do ADD ( become more dense)

however in the wire... they DO HIT each other... but NOT FROM THE SAME WIRE. instead from the wire next to it... make scene?

this is where our capacitance and inductance comes from me thinks...

the spacing and charge on the wire play a MAJOR roll in the performance... this is what a Tesla coil has wire so neatly spaced ... it madders..  hence better performance in better wrapped coils ( when used for this type of work)

in the end its not to much to worry about the spacing on most devices. but you want the most bang for your buck and you better pay attention! 

~Russ

here print 2 of theses out, cur them out and color them.

Then play with real magnets, and play with theses. see how they react and you will " get it"

~Russ

Like those toy tops that "fight"... 

https://www.w8ji.com/inductor_current_time_delay.htm

more current delay answers and questions but good to note all the details in that one short post...

if you view them from Joe's view it can make even more scene!

~Russ

@Russ

Quote

https://www.w8ji.com/inductor_current_time_delay.htm

more current delay answers and questions but good to note all the details in that one short post...

with my poor knowledge I read that with the belief that.

1) Our coil windings must be tightly wound and close spacing? that is No sloppy windings
     This is so the current can shunt the coil via a magnetic linkage and decrease the time that current takes to get from one side of the coil to the other

2) Capacitance in the coil is therefore not a bad thing if the desire is to loose the current/magnetic field before it leaves the short/loop stage?

3) We don't want to introduce any metal to the coil in the belief that the inductance will give a better field strength?

4) because the current shunts the windings of the coil this gives a capacitance value which will increase capacitance as frequency increases?

Am I right in these assumptions Russ

Quote

1) Our coil windings must be tightly wound and close spacing? that is No sloppy windings
     This is so the current can shunt the coil via a magnetic linkage and decrease the time that current takes to get from one side of the coil to the other

edited to read 'decrease'

Basis:

Current aligns the gyroscopic particles.
Voltage pushes them out of the wire.

Experiment:

Take a coaxial cable of some length.  Push a small current of high voltage through both the center & outside conductors in the same direction.  This should align the gyroscopic particles and at the same time push them out from their conductive material.

Next, short the current in the outside conductor which should hold the aligned particles in place.

Third, drop the current from the inside conductor and collect any excess electrical power.

Last, remove the short from the outside conductor and allow the conductive atoms to reguage themselves.

Repeat cycle as rapidly as possible.


If Newman is correct, the center conductor should acquire considerable gyroscopic particles from the outer conductor, pulling them in and making them available for direct electrical use.

@ Matt
Not sure what the magnetic flux lines would look like from a outer coaxial cable, it may interfere with net spin of electrons. (see my above note of keeping coil winds uniform and tight.

obviously DC current..

How to loop the outer short....need a commutator like Newmans EDITED to read outer short

As you do step 3 you will induce a BEMF and spring your electrons back into outer coaxial cable.

Your brain's working matt I like it, but solve the above problems.
I think you are getting the Newman way of interactions though...from the way you tried to deduce that one.

in saying that step 3 may still work if the bias of the stronger magnetic fields is on the coaxial outer.

Also another caveat matt,
electrons leaving the shell have a probability of where they will be, hitting a whole bunch of wires is easy...trying to hit just one may reduce the transfer...given enough time I have no doubt this would transfer all free electrons but your time scale is within the window of the oscillation...
Also you are creating positive charged atoms in the coaxial and negative atoms in the centre line, they will try to equal out by robbing the free electrons back in the regauging process, you need to get them away as soon as possible. You can only keep them in a current that flows with wires that move away from each other, keeping the wire parallel will incur losses even more so if the coaxial is insulated as the electrons in the inner cable are a easier pick.

Would the net charge gain be significant??? you would need to try it...but your using up power in the coaxial even before you have gained any...
Regards

For those who read Reply #207
I include a visual representation of Newman's circuit, I replaced the commutator with a DPDT switch purely for illustration purposes as the circuit is easier to see. The DPDT switch is not to be used in a real Newman circuit as the commutator does the timing.

I did another quick experiment on my 9.5 pound roll of #22 wire. Resistance  ~ 78.5 ohms
I applied 13.2 volts from a battery for 200 milliseconds with an Arduino controlled relay
then I disconnected both sides of the coil for 15 milliseconds and then shorted the coil with another
Arduino controlled relay for 5 milliseconds. Attached is the scope shot.. no core (air) and no magnets

If I'm reading that right we had a little oscillation there and a reverse current flow of ?
but I'm not too good at reading scopes.correct me please
was there a capacitor on the shorted coil, I'd expect a better oscillation.

no capacitor... except the self capacitance of the coil
I was not looking for oscillation
we had a spike when power was applied
we had a spike when power was removed and some ringing
we had a spike when the coil was shorted.
and then a very large negative pulse after the short was removed after 5 milliseconds

Is it my eyes...lol
is there oscillation