Quote

If we add enough we might be able to remove the capacitors added to the coils... see where I'm going?

Now you're back to where I was in my mind before you kept throwing in the capacitors. Don't read into that I'm saying I'm right....I liked your ideas but your doubting yourself.
Ask for a little help with this tonight before bed....that's what I do. See how you wake.

Quote

The caps are used for energy storage from the coils.

correct but because they are in the circuit at the time of the spark gap they are a factor in the capacitance of the coil.

Quote from sonnet on November 10th, 2017, 03:51 PM

Now you're back to where I was in my mind before you kept throwing in the capacitors. Don't read into that I'm saying I'm right....I liked your ideas but your doubting yourself.
Ask for a little help with this tonight before bed....that's what I do. See how you wake.

yes. well the funny thing is i have been deeply thinking and thinking and agree to my self and then find in the book its correct. lol

as you seen in my video and your post. :)

so it might just be further in, but its so much more fun to discover first, then rediscover later :)

I'm not doubting my self... this time :)
rather I'm trying to make sure i clearly see that its helpful. and why.

a doubt comes from an already made decision. this one is still in the air :) hehe

yes, before bed... i will, as i i have been :)

~Russ

@ Haxar
I take that back Ive not seen the circuit with the capacitors so I,m assuming...sorry

Quote from sonnet on November 10th, 2017, 04:03 PM

@ Haxar
I take that back Ive not seen the circuit with the capacitors so I,m assuming...sorry

http://open-source-energy.org/rwg42985/russ/newman/Joe_Newman_Plans.gif

most of his later videos had caps on the coils. his original 1st motor did not produce much torque. and did not have caps from my research.

so it was latter added for reasons i believe to help from killing the commutator. its almost the same as shorting but helps keep the energy in the system. instead of arcing to the commutator,  But if its built in to the coil...
However even that photo may not be 100% accurate.

fine tooth comb...

kinda reminded me of the current doubling circuit Matt pointed us to back when... The battery's as the first cap... ? any hew now i'm out there. back to work.

~Russ 

Yes see now, the whole short circuit will change impedance because of the caps. there's quite a bit of maths to do there.
still think we shouldn't worry about capacitance as I believe it would be a help. wonder how matt we see it.

Quote from sonnet on November 10th, 2017, 04:43 PM

Yes see now, the whole short circuit will change impedance because of the caps. there's quite a bit of maths to do there.
still think we shouldn't worry about capacitance as I believe it would be a help. wonder how matt we see it.

as of now, i agree, but i wanted to really push the WHY NOT... :) ~Russ

Just a day in the world. (Taken a few min ago) over the Pacific
god bless us all...

i'd like to keep this place we call home ...

Those plans, is it Joe's. source has his address but did he endorse that plan anyone know?
the machine there is not very big and sort of goes against what he said.

sorry seen video of joe with small unit now...lol... don't worry i'm catching up with you lot....it was a while back I looked at joe's work...never seen that one before....regards

Quote from sonnet on November 10th, 2017, 05:20 PM

Those plans, is it Joe's. source has his address but did he endorse that plan anyone know?
the machine there is not very big and sort of goes against what he said.

I was told no less than 40 lb of wire.... 36awg... ( that might be on each coil??) and for every 40Lb or wire add 20-50lb of magnets...

yes, I'm quite sure it was endorsed by Newman. due to other facts i know.

do you know ANYONE who has put even 40lb on wire on a motor? more less a window motor? I dont...


~Russ

I thought this was interesting

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirchhoff%27s_circuit_laws

this "law" is based more on the math than anything so its in no way a "law" we need to worry about...

you should also note that this law is how most simulators are built.... umm hummm ....

~Russ

lol no...Just that I've only ever seen his old school teachings and motors in his video's...as I said catching up on vids now. regards

on page 461 he says he uses 140 lbs of #38 wire cut into 56 equal lengths with a 130 lb rotor with magnets
litz wire comes with #38 wire pretty standard... that would sure make winding the coils a lot easier.

Good stuff. Its also noted on the drawings I linked. But its all blurry. One page at a time for me. Still reading. :) ~Russ

Quote

the speed of the charges is proportional to the value of electric current;"

http://amasci.com/miscon/speed.html

and potential (voltage) moves at the speed of light.. (so its said)
~Russ

That might confuse when electrons really move at only meters per second along the surface of a metal conductor.

The article also says only the surface layers of atoms are involved with conduction.

So we have another play on word definitions:
 
1) capacitance of storage such as cap, battery

2) capacitance of conductor carrying charge.

 The second is not based as much on mass as surface area.
   

Quote from ~Russ on November 10th, 2017, 04:52 PM

as of now, i agree, but i wanted to really push the WHY NOT... :) ~Russ

If you keep the internal capacitance low, you will limit the speed in which things happen.  Ten RPM might not be what you're looking for, but possibly be all you are going to get.

If Newman is correct, the voltage acts as a catalyst to manifest out the magnetic field in such a way to have a coherent polarity.  That's really all you need.  The tricks Newman uses to get the proper alignment should be applicable whether done slowly or quick.  If those are my two choices, I'd take quick and do those same tricks more often.

140 lbs of copper, whew, but that is a whole lot of copper... that is the smallest Newman motor I see

maybe he used 56 rolls each of 2.5 pounds of 38AWG wire

Quote from Matt Watts on November 10th, 2017, 11:13 PM

If you keep the internal capacitance low, you will limit the speed in which things happen.  Ten RPM might not be what you're looking for, but possibly be all you are going to get.

If Newman is correct, the voltage acts as a catalyst to manifest out the magnetic field in such a way to have a coherent polarity.  That's really all you need.  The tricks Newman uses to get the proper alignment should be applicable whether done slowly or quick.  If those are my two choices, I'd take quick and do those same tricks more often.

Right. However. We might be playing in an area that is WAY above or below our speed.

So in the end we may not even see much difference.

If we are in the window. Then its a factor.

This all could be calulated to get an idea. But I don't think its necacarry for. Proof of consept. However re wrapping 140lb of 30 or 36 is not somthing I want to be doing...

That it Matt. Its only a catalyst.  And once started the charge is bigger coming back. Than goin in.  This bei gs the caps up on the coils and your letrialy shuffling potental back and forth. But its with in the system. Its self.

Newman got his big motor running at full speed.  Pumping water.  He then remove the catalyst (input battery)  and the motor ran for OVER 3 MIN!!  Do the math.  I'm not convinced its just the mass.  Why?  Becuse when he started it,  it takes off WAY faster than that...  Gives us an idea of what torque and how heavy it really is.

The rotory is
4foot flywheele. 450lb
9" rotor 9 foot long. I think the magnet was 120lb from my notes.

Edit 1200lb rotor!  This was "including a 5foot flywheel. (I haven't tried to measure it yet) 

~Russ

we will have to have some kind of a machine to wrap that much wire... it would take super human effort to do it by hand

I measured a 1 pound microwave oven transformer HV coil and it was over 5uF... with Newmans 140 pound coils we will be very high in capacitance !!!

What size wire is on that MOT you think?  ~Russ

Quote from ~Russ on November 11th, 2017, 11:33 AM

What size wire is on that MOT you think?  ~Russ

I measured size 26 (0.40mm diameter)

average mot wire size.
The wire used on the mains primary is heavy gauge, appearing to be between #13 and  #14
The wire on the high voltage secondary was much finer between #24 and #25 gauge