Had some good thoughts last night about winding geometry.  I think I have an idea now that might work quite nicely, at least for a motor/generator.

Quote from Cycle on March 21st, 07:36 PM
So essentially a low-resistance battery would 'outrun' the rotational rate of the rotor, allowing the battery to continue pumping voltage into the coil and accelerating the rotor, whereas a high-resistance battery has a voltage dip which allows the induced momentum of the rotor (after the first 15 - 20 degrees of rotation) to induce current in the same direction as the applied current.

 Would it be correct in that the battery resistance will trend up" Get  a higher  resistance" as the batteries get older.

If that is true then this could be why Newman was using old batteries in his demonstrations.

Quote from Enrg4life on March 27th, 2018, 06:51 PM

Quote from Cycle on March 21st, 07:36 PM
So essentially a low-resistance battery would 'outrun' the rotational rate of the rotor, allowing the battery to continue pumping voltage into the coil and accelerating the rotor, whereas a high-resistance battery has a voltage dip which allows the induced momentum of the rotor (after the first 15 - 20 degrees of rotation) to induce current in the same direction as the applied current.

 Would it be correct in that the battery resistance will trend up" Get  a higher  resistance" as the batteries get older.

If that is true then this could be why Newman was using old batteries in his demonstrations.

Yes, the internal resistance increases with battery age. Russ could get the same effect (and be able to tailor starting voltage, current flow and voltage dip) if he used a constant-current, variable-voltage power supply rather than a battery pack.

Just put diodes between it and the machine, then let the negative current flow (that coming back from the machine) go into a large cap bank or a battery bank, from which one can draw to power the upstream side of the power supply.

So sort of a joule-ringer circuit that supplies a constant (user-adjustable) current, and a variable voltage (user-adjustable for starting voltage and voltage dip).

You'll note that will 'close the loop' while ensuring the power supplied to the machine is always optimal. ;)

Yes its a mess...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ou2b07zn628

more open coil tests coming with motorized magnet spinning.

~Russ 

As expected or predicted by my Jack Noskills testing.

What you should clearly note is the pull force required to spin the magnet dropped, but the outcome of the charging remained the same.  Now consider why?

Because with the shunted coils, you are allowing a magnetic field to be produced that is in opposition to the force imposed by the magnet.  In the open coils, you still have this effect, but it is much reduced and can be reduced to near zero with the proper geometry.

The magnet is the source of the energy.  It is freely discharging into your coils.  Grab it, wait and then use it to both power a load AND produce the magnetic field you need to accelerate the magnet.  Can you do that with your geometry...?   I'm not sure.  Maybe.  For certain you can with a better geometry.

The  Joseph Newman  machine  ,  could induce  similar  effects to  a Tesla  transformer  where resonance can occur  due  to the length of  the filar coil,  the capacitance effect,  and  the impulsion  which  decompose  in  high frequency (see Fourier transform).

https://youtu.be/oyODF8FWs_8

This one is something to think about...

ANY... and also ______
~Russ

Quote from ~Russ on March 31st, 2018, 12:24 PM

This one is something to think about...

ANY... and also ______

Crap Homer, I was focused on odd harmonics, not odd quarter wavelengths.  Stupid, stupid.  Sure easy to get tunnel vision.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeTM32GB0r4

Matt answer the question.

ANY... and also ______ (hint, same as Manny but more)
~Russ

Quote from ~Russ on March 31st, 2018, 01:58 PM

Matt answer the question.

ANY... and also suitable length of wire (hint, same as Manny but more)

Not sure how we determine what "suitable" is, but I'm sure you will give us another hint.

Hi Russ, I wrote down now the basics of the overunity output
from Newman´s big first machine... Please study this here:
http://overunity.com/17661/first-newman-machine-big-back-current-spikes-lighting-up-incandescent-bulbs/msg519199/#msg519199

Many thanks for your great work on the Newman machines.

Try to enhance the coil´s stray capacitance by putting small high voltage 100 NanoFarad or 1 uF caps in a few taps,
so you will have multiple Lc tanks in series... this will enhance the back current spike and make it much longer...

Good luck.
Best regards from Stefan.

Quote from Matt Watts on March 31st, 2018, 04:07 PM

Not sure how we determine what "suitable" is, but I'm sure you will give us another hint.

Good guess,

Here is what i was lookign for:

ANY... and also ALL of thses F.....

Why limit your self to one?

~Russ

Thanks Stefan.

I have read everything i could find. I also have tested most all the configurations that i can think of.

However,  i have not seen the results shown on those scope shots.

It feels there is a few key things that have to be in place.
I will rethink and re visit some of thses things.

From my experience so far adding caps is not helpfull. The result i see when doing so is that the  cap switching polarity just destroys the brush / conutator.

And eats more input power. Charging the cap on the next 1/2 cycle.

This coil sure dose not act the same as the bigger sized larger coils from all my tests so far. However i dont have anything to compair it to either. Not on my bench...

More to do for sure..

Thanks for taking the time to post and help!!!

~Russ

Hi Russ, for these big current spikes to happen, you need to fix the rotor versus commutator angle this
way, that it is not going at the maximum rotation speed(motor configuration), but more in a generator state,
so the commutator has to switch, when the magnet still pushes magnetic field into the coil....
also it is important to have graphite versus copper on the commutator, so the there is a big spark at this moment...
also a bigger cap than 1 uF is really not good, also it could be good to connect the cap not directly across the coil, but only
to inner taps of the coil...
Yes, with smaller models of these coils it is really hard to get such a big current backspike...
Just play with the angle of commutator versus rotor angle, so you set where the rotor is reversing the current at which
angle of the rotation of the magnet...
Good luck ! Regards, Stefan.

Quote from ~Russ on March 31st, 2018, 04:59 PM

Here is what i was lookign for:

ANY... and also ALL of thses Frequencies.

You know, you're sure starting so sound a lot like Mr. G.    :-)

Russ, have a look at this:
http://overunity.com/17661/first-newman-machine-big-back-current-spikes-lighting-up-incandescent-bulbs/msg519213/#msg519213

Regards, Stefan.

Quote from Piero on March 30th, 2018, 03:02 PM

The  Joseph Newman  machine  ,  could induce  similar  effects to  a Tesla  transformer  where resonance can occur  due  to the length of  the filar coil,  the capacitance effect,  and  the impulsion  which  decompose  in  high frequency (see Fourier transform).

...https://youtu.be/oyODF8FWs_8

...the tenet stands: that an antenna must be an image of the signal it is to capture. What does it mean that a linden leaf captures light but √3 does not? One is reminded of a quotation from the great Johann Wolfgang von Goethe: “The eye was made by the light, for the light…the eye is sun-like.” Like the linden-leaf, it must bear likeness to sunlight in order to meet it. Otherwise there could be no purchase for the photons; the light would miss the retina like two ships passing in the night, just as we do with the angels on the sidewalk.

ELECTROMAGNETISM IN THE HALL OF MIRRORS: PART I
https://thelizardpress.wordpress.com/2015/05/30/electromagnetism-in-the-hall-of-mirrors/



Fundamentally wrong in its basic premises, and wasteful in its practice,
man's modern concept of the universe must be torn down and built again on truth as plainly told in light.

https://wikischool.org/divided_light

Quote

The Free Energy Principle

All potential gradient (trapped excess energy density) is free for the taking. The potential is due to the violent VPF exchange between the vacuum and the separated bipolar charges furnishing the source potential gradient. The energy of the entire universe is flowing through that source potential. You can have as much of this internal VPF fLUX energy (potential) as you wish, as often as you wish, so long as you don't demand current (which is power, or the rate at which the energy is being freed and dissipated). It's really simple. You can have all the trapped energy you wish, from any source. You cannot connect to the source and start to dissipate the energy as power, however, without starting to close the "gate" from which your free trapped energy is coming.

In other words, here's the iron rule: If you draw current, you kill the bipolarity gate furnishing the potential gradient (source of energy density). In that case, you kill the source. If you do not draw current, you do not kill the bipolarity gate and you do not shut down the source. In that case, you can continue to "use" it and extract trapped EM energy from it forever.
...
Good Copper Wire: Bane of Overunity Inventors: Many destitute inventors, tinkering and fiddling with overunity devices, finally get something (a circuit or device) that does yield more work out than they had to input. At that point, they usually conclude that it's simply the specific circuit configuration and its conventional functioning that produces the overunity work. However, usually as soon as this configuration is more carefully built with very good materials, boom! It isn't overunity anymore. The inventors and their assistants then desperately bang and clang away, getting more frustrated as the years pass. The investors get mad, sue for fraud, or get in all sorts of squabbles. The scientists who tested it and found it wanting, pooh-pooh the whole thing as a scam and a fraud, or just a seriously mistaken inventor. Scratch one more "overunity" device.

Most of these inventors got their successful effect (and possibly erratically) when they were struggling with inferior, usually old, usually corroded materials. Actually, the more inferior, the better. The more contaminated/doped, the better!

The moment you wire up your circuit with good copper wire connected between the battery or primary source and any kind of load including the distributed circuitry loading itself, you can forget about overunity. You will lose it in the copper, after the first 1.5 x 10-19 second!

Think of a really good conductor such as copper as an essentially linear material. Linear means energy conservative. Overunity can only be done with a highly nonlinear effect. So your "conductors" have to be made of nonlinear materials. In fact, they have to be made of degenerate semiconductor material. For the type of circuitry we are talking about, the copper has to be doped and then made into "doped copper" wiring. You also have to utilize the primary battery only to potentialize a collector (secondary battery/source), and then use this secondary battery source to conventionally power the load while also killing itself.
...
Then Heaviside et al forced Maxwell's theory into a vector framework, throwing out the scalar component, and discarding the unification of gravitation and electromagnetics along with it.
...
Just remember that the control and use of energy is personal power. The control and use of absolute energy is the control and use of absolute personal power. In the old adage, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Please use it wisely.
http://www.cheniere.org/techpapers/Final%20Secret%209%20Feb%201993/indexold.html

Stefan, here is some slow video of the scope and generator.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxeiCIIwcag

to my understanding he had the lights connected to the outer coil. as the magnet passes the coil it lights up the lights. as it appears in that video. however there was other configurations with the generating coil on the out side as seen in the fallowing quote.

however it is also noted that the current spike is extremely sharp... so this could indicate that its not from induction, BUT, if the power is cut, when the magnet is more in the 90 degree angle then the current COULD look like that. however i have no real way to say whats what...
that current spike could even be the re connection of the commutator, because the spark can be seen in that "burst" in a totally different time than this large current spike. its all a bit unclear.

Its worded in the patent that the magnetic field produced by the drive coil will cancel out magnet induction from the magnet in the second generator coil IF things are set up correctly.  here is some test from pages 28 and 30 from the patent. There is more in there one should read but here is a few bits.

Quote

This effect is additionally more fully understood by
stating the following results obtained from experimentation
by the applicant in the process of this invention.

a) When the system is initially attached to a 1.5 volt
size N Battery 201 or 301 and the magnet 200 or 300 and
related rotation entities are placed close to or in the
center of coil 205 or 305, the following results are
observed:
25
If the electric current produced in coil 206 (306) is
then fed back into coil 205 (305) in accordance with proper
polarity, the rotation speed of magnet 200 or 300 will then
accelerate. If fed back into coil 205 (305) in wrong
polarity, the rotation speed of magnet 200 (300) will slow
down,

The
coil 206 (306) can be taken out of the system, or its
electrical current fed away from the system, and the
rotational speed of the magnet 200 (300) will not observably
25 change. However, the rotational speed of magnet 200 (300)
will noticeably change when the electric current from coil
206 (306) is fed back into coil 205 (305)!

b) When the electric current from battery 201 (301)
becomes weaker to the point that the magnetic field coming
from coil 205 (305) has weakened and shrunk allowing the
magnetic field of the rotating magnet 200 (300) to expand
5 and then noticeably induce electric current into coil 206
(306) and into coil 205 (305), then reverse results are
observed. When the magnetic field from the coil 205 (305) is
large, then the magnetic field from magnet 200 (300) is
retained!
70
If coil 206 (306) is then short circuited, the rotation
of magnet 200 (300) will noticeably slow down.
If electric current from coil 206 (306) is fed back
15 into coil 205 (305) in wrong polarity, the rotation of the
magnet 200 (300) will stop. If fed back into coil 205 (305)
in correct polarity, the rotation of the magnet 200 (300)
will slow down. At that point, the rotation of the magnet
200 (300) will not accelerate, no matter how connected!
20
These results show that, at this time, the magnetic
field from magnet 200 (300) noticeably induces a current in
coils 206 (306) and 205 (305) which opposes the rotation of
the magnet 200 (300). This effect has already been mechan-
25 ically explained, and it has been shown that Lenz1 Law was
simply an observation of that mechanical explanation.

so as you can see there was Manny different configurations he was experimenting with on his big unit.

Not just not main coil. but also a smaller coil on the out side of the main coil. With smaller Gage.

I have also tested this with my coil and there was not much change in the results trying to "shield" the magnet field.  There for my magnet has to much interaction between the magnet and the coil to obtain the same results as he describes.

also note that he was feeding the outer coil in to the main coil in different polarities. I'm not sure even how he was doing that with a simple commutator. unless the connections were more complex then he shows in most of his other work.


The florescence's  on the side of the unit flash when the magnet comes out of the unit. indicating that the florescent is connected to the motor winding. and flashing to suppress the spark.  you can see this spark on the scope shot as well. when it has a burst / the trace "explodes"

also there is this consent rise in the trace on the scope shot. I'm not 100% sure where there measuring this ether. or what the time base it. its hard to tell.

If i make the time base small i can get a similar scope reading with very large current spikes. but nothing in the 10's of amps range that is shown on some scope shots in the other reports.

its also important to note that the inductive reactance in his big coil seems to play a big roll in his results. as he only has around 13 ohms in his big coil. however the coil I'm working with is 50K ohms. i'm guessing this dramatically changes the out come. 

500V @ 13 ohms even for the large inductance of 100 ( his big coil was less than that from my understanding)  is a lot more current. so the induction like I'm exploring could be canceling out the input current along with the inductive reactance.

Just some thoughts...
more to do...

~Russ 

https://youtu.be/Fi8FbMHNc8Y

That mini model sure looks a lot like a window motor.

Quote from ~Russ on April 3rd, 2018, 11:41 PM

...https://youtu.be/Fi8FbMHNc8Y

...https://youtu.be/Fi8FbMHNc8Y?t=18m33s

Yes, you can also see the commutator of the very first big machine, that was shown in Maryland in the convention center...but that was hard to film, as I only had a a Pooty VHS-C camcorder with a Tube sensor, which was affected by the magnetic fields of the big permanent magnet rotor...and the coil was pretty high, so I needed to film with my hands over my head and not seeing, what I was really filming...

 :cool:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPLbJYkWhCw

JWN Project P14: Magnetic Induction Cancellation Testing.

It is stated in the Newman Patent:

Quote

"When the electric current from battery 201 (301)
becomes weaker to the point that the magnetic field coming
from coil 205 (305) has weakened and shrunk allowing the
magnetic field of the rotating magnet 200 (300) to expand and then noticeably induce electric current into coil 206
(306) and into coil 205 (305), then reverse results are
observed. When the magnetic field from the coil 205 (305) is
large, then the magnetic field from magnet 200 (300) is
retained!"

lets test this....

conclusion,

Dose the magnetic field of the inner coil "cancel" out any of the permanent magnet flux from cutting in to
the outer coil?

yes, not all but some.

It appears that the 2" permanent magnet is to strong and the coils field to week to get a full cancellation effect.

Why could this be important?

If the goal was to only get the inner coils magnetic field to induce in to the outer coil
 with out the permanent magnetic induction in to the outer then,
The magnetic field of the inner coil VS permanent magnet field strength needs to be balanced.

Once This is done then the coils coils be configured in such a way where the outer coils induction could add to the system.
as stated here in the patent:

Quote

"If the electric current produced in coil 206 (306) is
then fed back into coil 205 (305) in accordance with proper
polarity, the rotation speed of magnet 200 or 300 will then
accelerate. If fed back into coil 205 (305) in wrong
polarity, the rotation speed of magnet 200 (300) will slow
down,

The
coil 206 (306) can be taken out of the system, or its
electrical current fed away from the system, and the
rotational speed of the magnet 200 (300) will not observably change. However, the rotational speed of magnet 200 (300)
will noticeably change when the electric current from coil
206 (306) is fed back into coil 205 (305)!"

~Russ

Quote from Cycle on March 21st, 2018, 08:28 PM

Now you've got it... except that the equation for capacitor stored energy is:
¹/₂ Q deltaV

ΔΕ = Q.ΔV

and  Q ?

Q = 10³⁶  eV
                           
1 eV = 1,6 x 10^-19   J oules

 The   energy  that can  be  pumped   with  the  big   coil  potentialy  is:
ΔΕ = 1,6 x  10¹⁷  J

  which  is    huge  !

Russ and all, read my reply here:
http://overunity.com/17661/first-newman-machine-big-back-current-spikes-lighting-up-incandescent-bulbs/msg519456/#msg519456

Also I guess we need 2 commutators, one for the inner coil and the other for the outer coil  to check out,
how these 2 coils can support each other and how the current can be fed back or shorted out at the right position of the rotating magnet
and to see, if you could get then a bigger back current spike...

Regards, Stefan.