Quote from bjrohner on August 21st, 2012, 05:45 PM

Any way. I will be posting an update video soon and will voice my opinion on all this interesting information/stuff soon...

~Russ Gries
____

Russ, I deeply apologize for that. I am extremely uncomfortable with all this sudden attention I am receiving. It seems that  misquoting and malicious fabrications about are the norm. Poor me, Right. Anyway, I'm not yet sure who my friends are so forgive me please.  I enjoy logical well considered technical criticism so don't be gentle in that regard.  One thing I want to be sure you understand, I just can't tell you how we do our process. I have responsibilities to my business and my co-owner.    

I see that Sterling just started to attack John for all his fraud. One thing he says is not true. When you get your popper, I don't believe you will have any trouble procuring the gas. My midsize tank of premix cost $1700 but you don't want premix anyway. Premix is not accurate to more that 3 or 4% and more expensive.

To start out with get high grade lab bottles of each gas, make up the septums as I told you, and buy used regulators.  Using the multiple syringe method you can go quite fast and will be much more accurate than with premix. Be sure to establish a routine to open fill and close. I once let a container of premix cracked open all  weekend. Monday morning bye bye $1700. Generally, You can open the main valve and just close it again as the pressurized gas in the regulator is sufficient for several charges. Xenon is quite expensive but one lab bottle of it will last forever as its percentage is so small. I buy from Prexaire but I'm sure airgas will be just as competitive.  

I'm sure you know this but keep careful records. I simply use my web cam to capture and later transcribe into notes.  If you don't you will be lost in no time. When you start charting power it's best to setup excel with the formulas. As smart as you guys are it's probably child's play for you. You will discover that different mixes (and individual gasses ) will result in different outputs and a very deep dark secret about helium. This is especially true when considering the cross over voltages (waste) that you will capture.

Bob, apology excepted, but do please easy when you respond to people even if you think there some one there not. As if there like me it may be ok, but for some, it may have been much deferent, the Internet is a crazy place as you know...

Any how. Back to the subject,

We don't plan on you giving us the "secret" what we do plan on is you giving us a kick in the but when we start heading in the wrong direction.. A yes or no some times is a big help.. Well when it's a honest yes or no.

Any way. Hope to have an update video out soon.

Also, paxair seems to be high on price. What size cylinders are those you have?

We plan on trying the mix as stated to start with. Once we have some success we will mix gas to the pree mix and use it as a control.

Also, what's the chances of us blowing up the aluminum cylinder  if mixed with the " correct" mix???

Syringe we will be using to transfer the mix. And or mix
Our own.

Thanks, ~Russ  

Quote from geert8550 on August 22nd, 2012, 12:18 AM

What the noble gases concern. With the technology of MT Keshe noble gases are also used namely hydrogen, helium, argon, xenon and neon. Neon serves as an insulator between the other gases. This mixture is also under vacuum in the central tank (sphere or hemisphere) left where it rotates at high speed. The gases automatically take their place according to their specific gravity by the centrifugal force. In this sphere are electro-magnets, via a column, which can be controlled from the outside. One can polaritatie flip, enlarge or combined, depending on what you want to achieve as antigraviteit, electricity, gas or absorption of proteins from the ambient air.
These technologies leaning close together with the difference that Keshe creates a double magnetic field which the phenomena of the universe imitate. The technologies are both based on plasma technology, which is clearly the future. Very interesting so for open source projects.
The Papp engine may possibly be a start to get acquainted with the use of noble gases for later might make a Kesh plasma generator.

Geert

Thanks for this Geert, can you show us the listing of noble gasses in Keshe's patents?

Say Russ, how feasible would it be to extract the noble gasses from the air or  fractional distillation of air, on a small scale?:D
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_separation
Noble gasses are inert gasses
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inert_gas
which are noble gasses and monatomic, one atom
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_gas
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monatomic
not to be forgotten are diatomic, two atoms
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatomic

Quote from Jeff Nading on August 22nd, 2012, 05:55 AM

Quote from geert8550 on August 22nd, 2012, 12:18 AM

What the noble gases concern. With the technology of MT Keshe noble gases are also used namely hydrogen, helium, argon, xenon and neon. Neon serves as an insulator between the other gases. This mixture is also under vacuum in the central tank (sphere or hemisphere) left where it rotates at high speed. The gases automatically take their place according to their specific gravity by the centrifugal force. In this sphere are electro-magnets, via a column, which can be controlled from the outside. One can polaritatie flip, enlarge or combined, depending on what you want to achieve as antigraviteit, electricity, gas or absorption of proteins from the ambient air.
These technologies leaning close together with the difference that Keshe creates a double magnetic field which the phenomena of the universe imitate. The technologies are both based on plasma technology, which is clearly the future. Very interesting so for open source projects.
The Papp engine may possibly be a start to get acquainted with the use of noble gases for later might make a Kesh plasma generator.

Geert

Thanks for this Geert, can you show us the listing of noble gasses in Keshe's patents?

In Keshe patent EP 1 770717 A1, page 3 line 26 is called:
He 18B, Ne 18C, Ar 180, Kr, Xe 18E.
These are all inert gases some used as scintillators, let us say that they give light by ionization. It would be important to use liquid helium or neon.

The texts in the patents are very long and difficult for me because my mother language is not English. But i try now and then to learn from the patents. Therefore, I find it important to learn your way to the forum.
Kesh says that it is important to understand the technology that you read have the three books he wrote, but I do not know anyone who even thinks so. It still takes a small € 100 for all three of them.:( Yes of course, the books are also in English.:-/ If the books bring on the technical side something to teach :huh: to duplicate the device, I do not think so. They also need money, how else can they donate the expensive devices to the good cause, what they have done several times as in the University Hospital in Ghent (Belgium).

Geert

Quote from geert8550 on August 22nd, 2012, 07:42 AM

Quote from Jeff Nading on August 22nd, 2012, 05:55 AM

Quote from geert8550 on August 22nd, 2012, 12:18 AM

What the noble gases concern. With the technology of MT Keshe noble gases are also used namely hydrogen, helium, argon, xenon and neon. Neon serves as an insulator between the other gases. This mixture is also under vacuum in the central tank (sphere or hemisphere) left where it rotates at high speed. The gases automatically take their place according to their specific gravity by the centrifugal force. In this sphere are electro-magnets, via a column, which can be controlled from the outside. One can polaritatie flip, enlarge or combined, depending on what you want to achieve as antigraviteit, electricity, gas or absorption of proteins from the ambient air.
These technologies leaning close together with the difference that Keshe creates a double magnetic field which the phenomena of the universe imitate. The technologies are both based on plasma technology, which is clearly the future. Very interesting so for open source projects.
The Papp engine may possibly be a start to get acquainted with the use of noble gases for later might make a Kesh plasma generator.

Geert

Thanks for this Geert, can you show us the listing of noble gasses in Keshe's patents?

In Keshe patent EP 1 770717 A1, page 3 line 26 is called:
He 18B, Ne 18C, Ar 180, Kr, Xe 18E.
These are all inert gases some used as scintillators, let us say that they give light by ionization. It would be important to use liquid helium or neon.

The texts in the patents are very long and difficult for me because my mother language is not English. But i try now and then to learn from the patents. Therefore, I find it important to learn your way to the forum.
Kesh says that it is important to understand the technology that you read have the three books he wrote, but I do not know anyone who even thinks so. It still takes a small € 100 for all three of them.:( Yes of course, the books are also in English.:-/ If the books bring on the technical side something to teach :huh: to duplicate the device, I do not think so. They also need money, how else can they donate the expensive devices to the good cause, what they have done several times as in the University Hospital in Ghent (Belgium).

Geert

Thanks Geert, I think Dr. Keshe's patent [one of many] to be very important in this research here and will explain allot of what the noble gasses are doing, cause and effect.
http://open-source-energy.org/rwg42985/geert8550/EP1770717A1.pdf

It is very interesting :huh: how the noble gasses react or compliment each other, to produce different results when manipulated in different ways, Dr. Keshe knows this full well. They can be used to heal the sick, create vast amounts of electricity, be mobilized for transportation, among other things.:cool::D:P

In the patents of Kesh he discusses work (deficiencies and misconceptions) of other inventors who also worked with similar technology ie with noble gases.
Annex I placed a piece from the patent WO2008/113392A1 page 3 line 46 where Papp's work is mentioned.

Geert

Quote from geert8550 on August 22nd, 2012, 11:41 PM

In the patents of Kesh he discusses work (deficiencies and misconceptions) of other inventors who also worked with similar technology ie with noble gases.
Annex I placed a piece from the patent WO2008/113392A1 page 3 line 46 where Papp's work is mentioned.

Geert

Thanks Geert for posting this.:D

Jeff, i made a new treath to understand the Keshe TECHNOLOGY. The information can be used to create a 3D model of the Keshe reactor or build it as an open source.
http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=694

Geert

FYI: i also want to thank bob for hanging around, i'm extremely glad he is here and he is the only one that has showed a working device. so bob my hats off to you, keep pushing forward!

and no... i will not pick a side (bob or john) this is a group effort. even if there not working together... all data will be posted here as i can do it from both bob and john.

will be making an update video this week i hope Tuesday.


some data as i collect it.

from what i understand as of today...

information below is on the popper kit:

the ground electrode is Strontium: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strontium

My Theory: as i see it if one would hit this Strontium with high voltage it would still give off some of the radioactive "things" and could be used as a catalyst in the reaction.

next, the coils

From John rohner:

Quote

normal 2" coil used to ionize the gas, the 4" coil is used sets the "virtual" cylinder

next the RF:

Quote

The RF signal is injected into the cylinder head by a " wire antenna" that must use 1/2 the inner arc and " float" in the middle of the the chamber

you can see it here, this photo is posted on there web site, http://plasmerg.com/plasmr.html

[attachment=2101]

on my own research:
i did find the type of ignition coils that they are using...

http://www.weaponxperformance.com/weaponx/catalogv137/xcop-inductive-efx-super-coil-p-295.html

took a while but found it. also, you can order custom ones so i'm not sure if they are doing that or using the 80,000 volt coils...

im still not convenced that thay will ship the kits soon but like a have stated before, kit or no kit... we will be trying this out...

 

i have attached the orgnail papp patents:

also here is a combined schematic of the drawing in papps patent:

[attachment=2107]

i have not read this but just glanced it it... check it out... lol it is just what we are doing...

found a similar one from same guy may be updated or something...

i will update this post as i feel i need to or fine more info with in the patents,

in this patent:
[attachment=2108]

i see now why the strontium instead of the rubidium...
[attachment=2109]

reading on...

~Russ

That's what I'm talking about!!!
 Here is what 25-50% looks like.
Holly crap... Everything on that table went 2" up! Lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qqHI-WHQiE&feature=youtube_gdata_player

~Russ

Note on this post: bob eddied the footage as the point of this video was to show the power of the device, he later did the same test and no editing was done.

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on August 27th, 2012, 07:20 PM

That's what I'm talking about!!!
 Here is what 25-50% looks like.
Holly crap... Everything on that table went 2" up! Lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qqHI-WHQiE&feature=youtube_gdata_player

~Russ

my concerns about this video:

bob you can explain, just observing what i see... why the delay?

here is snap shots of the 3 "popps" thses are just after the pop:

one
[attachment=2112]
two
[attachment=2113]
three
[attachment=2114]


here is what i see in each one:
the sun and valve are in different  positions. there is a time delay in each pop.

one
[attachment=2115]
two
[attachment=2116]
three
[attachment=2117]

just looking and thinking... would love if bob could explain. not trying to hold anything agenst you bob! just dont understand why the delay and change in the valve?

thanks, ~Russ

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on August 27th, 2012, 11:03 PM

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on August 27th, 2012, 07:20 PM

That's what I'm talking about!!!
 Here is what 25-50% looks like.
Holly crap... Everything on that table went 2" up! Lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qqHI-WHQiE&feature=youtube_gdata_player

~Russ

my concerns about this video:

bob you can explain, just observing what i see... why the delay?

here is snap shots of the 3 "popps" thses are just after the pop:

one

two

three



here is what i see in each one:
the sun and valve are in different  positions. there is a time delay in each pop.

one

two

three


just looking and thinking... would love if bob could explain. not trying to hold anything agenst you bob! just dont understand why the delay and change in the valve?

thanks, ~Russ

Don't know about the valve Russ, but I think clouds are moving in and out to block or let the sun shine in.:D

Quote from Jeff Nading on August 28th, 2012, 05:13 AM

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on August 27th, 2012, 11:03 PM

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on August 27th, 2012, 07:20 PM

That's what I'm talking about!!!
 Here is what 25-50% looks like.
Holly crap... Everything on that table went 2" up! Lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qqHI-WHQiE&feature=youtube_gdata_player

~Russ

my concerns about this video:

bob you can explain, just observing what i see... why the delay?

here is snap shots of the 3 "popps" thses are just after the pop:

one

two

three



here is what i see in each one:
the sun and valve are in different  positions. there is a time delay in each pop.

one

two

three


just looking and thinking... would love if bob could explain. not trying to hold anything agenst you bob! just dont understand why the delay and change in the valve?

thanks, ~Russ

Don't know about the valve Russ, but I think clouds are moving in and out to block or let the sun shine in.:D

Jeff, if you watch really closely after every pop about two or three seconds you can actually see the sun transition from one point to another. And then it stays there through the entire frames until the end of the next pop and so forth take a closer look

~Russ

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on August 28th, 2012, 05:55 AM

Quote from Jeff Nading on August 28th, 2012, 05:13 AM

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on August 27th, 2012, 11:03 PM

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on August 27th, 2012, 07:20 PM

That's what I'm talking about!!!
 Here is what 25-50% looks like.
Holly crap... Everything on that table went 2" up! Lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qqHI-WHQiE&feature=youtube_gdata_player

~Russ

my concerns about this video:

bob you can explain, just observing what i see... why the delay?

here is snap shots of the 3 "popps" thses are just after the pop:

one

two

three



here is what i see in each one:
the sun and valve are in different  positions. there is a time delay in each pop.

one

two

three


just looking and thinking... would love if bob could explain. not trying to hold anything agenst you bob! just dont understand why the delay and change in the valve?

thanks, ~Russ

Don't know about the valve Russ, but I think clouds are moving in and out to block or let the sun shine in.:D

Jeff, if you watch really closely after every pop about two or three seconds you can actually see the sun transition from one point to another. And then it stays there through the entire frames until the end of the next pop and so forth take a closer look

~Russ

Watch in full screen-Russ speaks the truth.
The vidio is edited in 3 spots--why?
Enough seen and said.CuriousChris
It is time for me to eat humble pie
Sometime's some of us dont see the light until a later date.

Quote from TinMan on August 28th, 2012, 06:28 AM

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on August 28th, 2012, 05:55 AM

Quote from Jeff Nading on August 28th, 2012, 05:13 AM

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on August 27th, 2012, 11:03 PM

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on August 27th, 2012, 07:20 PM

That's what I'm talking about!!!
 Here is what 25-50% looks like.
Holly crap... Everything on that table went 2" up! Lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qqHI-WHQiE&feature=youtube_gdata_player

~Russ

my concerns about this video:

bob you can explain, just observing what i see... why the delay?

here is snap shots of the 3 "popps" thses are just after the pop:

one

two

three



here is what i see in each one:
the sun and valve are in different  positions. there is a time delay in each pop.

one

two

three


just looking and thinking... would love if bob could explain. not trying to hold anything agenst you bob! just dont understand why the delay and change in the valve?

thanks, ~Russ

Don't know about the valve Russ, but I think clouds are moving in and out to block or let the sun shine in.:D

Jeff, if you watch really closely after every pop about two or three seconds you can actually see the sun transition from one point to another. And then it stays there through the entire frames until the end of the next pop and so forth take a closer look

~Russ

Watch in full screen-Russ speaks the truth.
The vidio is edited in 3 spots--why?
Enough seen and said.
CuriousChris
It is time for me to eat humble pie
Sometime's some of us dont see the light until a later date.

I see it now, the video flashes in and out like it could have been edited.

I too really want this to be valid, Russ you are doing a good job of thoroughly researching this.  It is disappointing to suspect fraud, but as you pointed out, the evidence appears to be there. Even the overlay of a cricket soundtrack to try and provide continuity demonstrates it is purposeful. Really very disappointing.

In the video released at conference Bob made a point of saying about Papp purposefully never sharing the secret to the tech as it allowed him to have an excellent lifestyle with investors paying for it.  The cynic in me wonders if Bob started out with good intentions to build something with investor money and has not managed to get it working with any reliability and as such has now gotten himself into a situation where he must contend that he has it working to maintain his income and reputation, as he is keen on stating he is not getting any younger and the pressure not to lose it at this stage must be immense.

As I say that is a very cynical viewpoint and I am not one to condemn a man in-absentia, maybe Bob will return with a valid explanation to it all. I really hope that all of these Papp related breakthroughs are not examples of the good old dog and pony show with a continuation of the string along of the vulnerable/gullible for as long as possible before shuffling off this mortal coil with an air of mystery as your legacy rather than being debunked in your lifetime.

Very sad and disillusioned about it all right now.

All,

During my last couple of posts I have mentioned Bob's video that he just uploaded to YouTube. Has some interesting edits within it. There is another video on his website which you must go watch. It's demonstrating a lower power repetitive popping with no coil. This video I believe is legit and looks to be good. Stillmore reviewing to do but I have seen this demonstration before on Bob's behalf or other videos and have no doubt that it is real.

http://www.rohnermachine.com/pagedocuments

See that link and see "for wes" video.

The earlier video I talked about was more showing the violent power to be concerned with people playing with the popper kit from intelligently. This sounds like a personal problem with his brother. So we need to pay attention to which videos or for what. The battle videos and the real videos they're both there Bob makes both of them as I see now.

Nonetheless review all of what Bob has on his website and see the videos there. I have no reason to believe that those are fraudulent..

I believe the process is real I seen enough video evidence to say so now it'll be test time soon and will find out for ourselves

Once again I'm on no one side just stating the facts trying to stay out of the way do research prove it works or doesn't work and move on...

God bless us all!!

~Russ

Thank you Russ for your PM.

The reason I came to this site was because based on Mike McKubres witness I felt this technology was worth investigating further. As I cannot afford to buy and build Johns popper I went looking for someone who had or was going to. That's how I found you Russ and this forum.

By then my conversation with Bob had started to unsettle me. my scam radar was starting to beep.

I believe I have final and convincing proof that not only is the Rohner machine a fake but Bob Rohner is deliberate in his deception.
The reason I even looked into this machine was only because Mike McKubre gave his 'qualified' support for it. This has been a major blow for me as I mostly trusted Mike.

I recite this to explain that I didn't come here deliberately as an unsettling source. I was genuine in my desire to understand this claimed technology. I now know I can no longer trust Mike. I also gave Bob the benefit of the doubt. I thought perhaps he is trusting in Papp and doesn't even see the possible deception in his hands. It is now my opinion he is complicit in this alleged fraud.

Anyway back on topic

The main steps the Bob goes through when showing his device

1/ Optionally build the device and show each part. (including and excluding the coil)
2/ connect the various leads and hoses
3/ evacuate the device (and remove the vacuum hose)
4/ fill the device with the special gas mix using syringes.
5/ charge the capacitor bank
6/ fire the unit by discharging the capacitors through the device
7/ repeat steps 5 and 6.

I am going to concentrate on 3 & 4 there is, once you realise it a glaring anomaly, one that is in all his videos that show this part of the procedure.

Firstly we do not know that Bob is evacuating the device. his vacuum pump may well be a compressor. but it doesn't really matter. The so called vacuum gauge may be real a dummy or even a pressure gauge made to look like its reading vacuum.

Now to the interesting part. Bob forces the syringe through the rubber seal, these seals are designed for this purpose and I have no issue with them. He then injects the gas mixture into the evacuated chamber.

This is the proof. If the chamber was really evacuated Bob would not need to force the gas in by pushing the plunger (which takes some effort in the latest video) As soon as the tip of the syringe entered the chamber the air pressure on the plunger would cause the syringe to empty its contents into the chamber BY ITSELF. only the last syringe might need a final push to put the last bit of gas in. If you have ever used a syringe to try and evacuate a chamber you will know how hard this is and how much pressure you must apply, Usually the rubber tip pops off.

Plain physics tells us the chamber is not evacuated. In fact it must be slightly pressurised due to the additional gas Bob is adding.

As for what causes the plunger to fire. I think most of the time its pneumatic. but at other times he possibly uses other more clandestine techniques, like the coil hypothesis.

P.S. I could not find the video you spoke of Russ under the heading "For Wes - Coilless" there was no video, the popper warning video is also missing.

P.P.S. For those that still think I am working for John Rohner, Do a little research and you will find how he defrauded an investor of $300K and it appears got away with it. Would I tell you that if I was his stooge?

well after watching this yesterday ....As we say in England.. "I Smelt a rat !"
Meaning i thought there was something very fishy about bobs papp cylinder..

If you watch this video at 42:17 the "plasma" is flashing like a strobe light without the piston reacting like it should ..like something is not igniting properly.. like err the explosive gas he injected into the compressed air in the cylinder maybe..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPY0skKjJU8&feature=relmfu

Bob I really hope I am wrong on this because the world needs this kind of technology
but if you want the people of the world to take you seriously then you have to show exactly how it works so we can reproduce it and move forward..?

Quote from CuriousChris on August 28th, 2012, 06:16 PM

Now to the interesting part. Bob forces the syringe through the rubber seal, these seals are designed for this purpose and I have no issue with them. He then injects the gas mixture into the evacuated chamber.

This is the proof. If the chamber was really evacuated Bob would not need to force the gas in by pushing the plunger (which takes some effort in the latest video) As soon as the tip of the syringe entered the chamber the air pressure on the plunger would cause the syringe to empty its contents into the chamber BY ITSELF. only the last syringe might need a final push to put the last bit of gas in. If you have ever used a syringe to try and evacuate a chamber you will know how hard this is and how much pressure you must apply, Usually the rubber tip pops off.

Plain physics tells us the chamber is not evacuated. In fact it must be slightly pressurized due to the additional gas Bob is adding.

i will test this out for you in about a week when i get my syringe's in... ordered them yesterday.  i have no dough that he is vacuuming the camber. he is putting gas in to just over atmosphere. so he will need to push it in to overcome the pressure that is on the syringe seals, all this i do not think it fake. seems logical to me.

Quote

P.S. I could not find the video you spoke of Russ under the heading "For Wes - Coilless" there was no video, the popper warning video is also missing.

its still there:

http://www.rohnermachine.com/pagedocuments

on the right hand,  down after the first 2 videos. push play.

~Russ

PS. if you watch and study all Bobs videos on his web site, some are kinda suspicious but others seem 100% legit.  time will tell when i give it a go. gasses orders and making an update video tomorrow as i did not get a chance today.

Sorry Russ. I don't think you get what I am saying. if Bob is pushing the syringe into a vacuumed chamber. which he states he is. then syringe plunger will get 'sucked' in, and with force.

As you probably remember from primary school physics, the syringe plunger doesn't actually get sucked in. it gets pushed in by the positive pressure outside of the syringe at 1 atmosphere or approx 100kPa.

Those videos have re-appeared must have been something funny in my browser.

Notice how in the "for Wes" video he fills the syringe? he opens the valve and the plunger is pushed out. The exact opposite must occur when adding the gas to the vacuumed chamber. If there is any vacuum in the chamber worth speaking about it would get drawn in very rapidly. instead he has to push it in which to me indicates no internal vacuum.

After filling the chamber then it would possibly be a slightly positive pressure in the chamber.

You don't need a syringe to play with it, do you have a bike pump?. pull it apart reverse the seal on the inside, assemble it put your finger on the hole and try to pull the plunger out to create a vacuum inside the pump. If you have done it right you will see its very hard to pull it out any distance. Careful you don't hurt yourself, enough pressure will cause a blood blister, hold a rubber stopper to the hole instead. This is exactly the sort of pressure the plunger will be pulled in at if there was even a minimal vacuum.

I doubt John Rohners popper works with a vacuum. It would probably crush.

Getting an appropriate seal for a vacuum is difficult. If you take a close look at the Wes video again at about 2:50 he shows you the cylinder and then assembles it. There is no seal, there does not look to even be a mating face inside the base, I can see the buckets clearly. They are round therefore cannot be used as a sealing surface. I can state with 100% confidence from watching him assemble the cylinder it is impossible to create a vacuum in that void.

If it doesn't need a vacuum and doesn't need a coil and as Bob stated the energy doesn't come from plasma then what is happening?

Quote from CuriousChris on August 28th, 2012, 11:09 PM

Sorry Russ. I don't think you get what I am saying. if Bob is pushing the syringe into a vacuumed chamber. which he states he is. then syringe plunger will get 'sucked' in, and with force.

As you probably remember from primary school physics, the syringe plunger doesn't actually get sucked in. it gets pushed in by the positive pressure outside of the syringe at 1 atmosphere or approx 100kPa.

Those videos have re-appeared must have been something funny in my browser.

Notice how in the "for Wes" video he fills the syringe? he opens the valve and the plunger is pushed out. The exact opposite must occur when adding the gas to the vacuumed chamber. If there is any vacuum in the chamber worth speaking about it would get drawn in very rapidly. instead he has to push it in which to me indicates no internal vacuum.

After filling the chamber then it would possibly be a slightly positive pressure in the chamber.

You don't need a syringe to play with it, do you have a bike pump?. pull it apart reverse the seal on the inside, assemble it put your finger on the hole and try to pull the plunger out to create a vacuum inside the pump. If you have done it right you will see its very hard to pull it out any distance. Careful you don't hurt yourself, enough pressure will cause a blood blister, hold a rubber stopper to the hole instead. This is exactly the sort of pressure the plunger will be pulled in at if there was even a minimal vacuum.

I doubt John Rohners popper works with a vacuum. It would probably crush.

Getting an appropriate seal for a vacuum is difficult. If you take a close look at the Wes video again at about 2:50 he shows you the cylinder and then assembles it. There is no seal, there does not look to even be a mating face inside the base, I can see the buckets clearly. They are round therefore cannot be used as a sealing surface. I can state with 100% confidence from watching him assemble the cylinder it is impossible to create a vacuum in that void.

If it doesn't need a vacuum and doesn't need a coil and as Bob stated the energy doesn't come from plasma then what is happening?

chris, i understand 100% what your saying.

and the only to find out is test it. and like i say... that i will be doing. so wait and see...

theses seals on the  syringe are very tight. the hole is tinny. so this dose effect how it works. try to suck air through a pen hole... it will take some time to do so. and the chamber is not that big so even less vacuum to work with. these are 22gage needles...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Needle_gauge_comparison_chart

22 gage needle    outside diameter 0.02825"    inside diameter    0.01625"       

lol just you pull a vacuum through that one... lol you will see its not easy and will take a bit of time to pass that much vacuum to pull the syringe down with tight seals. ( it will work but you will need to sit and wait... bob did not do that)

you can see when he fills it it pushes out on its own, but a vacuum may not pull the  syringe in like you think. trust me. i know what your saying. i know you haven't seen all 350 videos i have on my youtube. i have played with this stuff.

test test test... then see. lol i will test it. i will have the same setup as bob as he gave me a list of parts for the set up. (  syringe and needle's and septa)

oh look a seal:
[attachment=2125]

now, i dont have time to convince you what is real... and whats not,  but whatever the dough is, i will TEST it and then we dont need to speculate.

so... make a list and i will test it.

as far as whats happening in the cylinder...

this is my theory as of 8-29-12

we already know we can "plasmatize" ( i just coined that one...) inert gases. EX neon sighn... ect.

now this is all done in a vacuum as we can plasmatize the gas eazer as there is less volts per inch (atoms are expanded more)

so.. any time we create plasma it expands. (lightning creates a BOOM this is from the expanding air...)

if we have a vacuum the gas can expand with no side effects ( neon sigh)

so what happens if we fill a glass tube with neon at just above atmosphere? well i dont know. but if it expands then it will POP. BUT it will take ALOT more energy to do this... hence why if bob dose not wait to fire it, it dont do much as the caps are not charged fully. less input voltage... less pop...

so those are my thoughts and is how i see it as of now.

if you want to see this explained more please watch this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zWJNyoFgJM&feature=g-hist

hope this helps.

my thought on fraud:
its hard to call anyone a fraud with out testing it out first... "do the work then state your thoughts"
this only apply to people who have demonstrated a working device.
 EX. BOB.  
not people that are selling stuff but have nothing to show...
EX JOHN

;)

Ok I missed the seal. That's a much better picture that you have there, I still couldnt see a seal in the one in the video.

As to the vacuum if the needle was so small that you couldn't get a vacuum to pull in the syringe then its too small for you to push it in. The syringe should have been sucked in. the exact speed it should go in will depend on many factors such as gas density, syringe length temperature so I guess I could have over estimated how rapidly it would get drawn in but I'd be surprised if it was slow.

Anyway I'll patiently await your tests. because as you say that this the real proof.