Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.

KevinW_EnhancedLiving

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #50, on August 13th, 2012, 08:16 PM »
Quote from TinMan on August 11th, 2012, 05:29 AM
Ok -well i must say that this (like Russ said)went all wrong.
First i find it very interesting that CC just so happens to turn up on this very post -for the very first time on this forum,right after Bob dose???
CC-you should look at the system a bit closer befor giveing your expert opion on how something some one else has built-works.
Yes,magnetic fields will react to any metal-if strong enough.
First wrong asumption-the electromagnetic field is what is lifting the ali pistion.
In this case no-you are wrong.
The ali pistion is between the center and bottom of the electro magnet-so any force would have been downward,not up.
Second-the electro magnet is on befor the high amp pulse is sent to the cylender,and the pistion dose not move prior to the high amp pulse being sent to the cylender.This high amp pulse is delivered through two apposing electrode's,and no linear magnetic fields produced by that pulse.
Then to get your knickers in a twist because he wouldnt carry out your test requests is nothing more than childish.
What you have succeeded in doing is getting rid of a very inportant part of this reserch ,and a valuble member of this forum.
Did you CC heed to your own advice and build a replication to proove your theroy?.If so,post the vidio so we can all see your experiments
On IAEC we value everyone's input,and we do not try in any way to discredit any one's work-especially when we cant proove it to be wrong.
This is something maybe Russ and other members should concider implimenting into the ruels of this forum
I do appologise to all for my strong post,but some times things just shouldnt take a direction like this did.
Thanks for verbalizing these thoughts so well.

/watch?v=AqFgM8osjLE

~Russ

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #51, on August 13th, 2012, 09:21 PM »
All, just cought up... Thank you all for all the grate posts!

Rawbush, give me a call. I don't think I have your number stored in my phone. Or email me it again.

Tinman, thanks for seeing what I saw.

Elament, thanks for the thoughts!!!

Mrfreedom50, that's why I wanted to test this and apply it to the EPG! These 2 are close and we can understand more about the EPG with these tests! ;)

Blessings all:

My latest update:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3pBEgNGoS0&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Now let's get cooking! :)

~Russ

Jeff Nading

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #52, on August 14th, 2012, 06:35 AM »
Quote from KevinW-dirtwill on August 13th, 2012, 08:16 PM
Quote from TinMan on August 11th, 2012, 05:29 AM
Ok -well i must say that this (like Russ said)went all wrong.
First i find it very interesting that CC just so happens to turn up on this very post -for the very first time on this forum,right after Bob dose???
CC-you should look at the system a bit closer befor giveing your expert opion on how something some one else has built-works.
Yes,magnetic fields will react to any metal-if strong enough.
First wrong asumption-the electromagnetic field is what is lifting the ali pistion.
In this case no-you are wrong.
The ali pistion is between the center and bottom of the electro magnet-so any force would have been downward,not up.
Second-the electro magnet is on befor the high amp pulse is sent to the cylender,and the pistion dose not move prior to the high amp pulse being sent to the cylender.This high amp pulse is delivered through two apposing electrode's,and no linear magnetic fields produced by that pulse.
Then to get your knickers in a twist because he wouldnt carry out your test requests is nothing more than childish.
What you have succeeded in doing is getting rid of a very inportant part of this reserch ,and a valuble member of this forum.
Did you CC heed to your own advice and build a replication to proove your theroy?.If so,post the vidio so we can all see your experiments
On IAEC we value everyone's input,and we do not try in any way to discredit any one's work-especially when we cant proove it to be wrong.
This is something maybe Russ and other members should concider implimenting into the ruels of this forum
I do appologise to all for my strong post,but some times things just shouldnt take a direction like this did.
Thanks for verbalizing these thoughts so well.

/watch?v=AqFgM8osjLE
I think the design could be changed up a little, the cylinders should bolt on the outside of the crankcase, instead of a flange that slides into the crankcase, because, if you end up having to change out a cylinder or an oring on the piston you would have to disassemble the whole engine. Build it like an aircraft engine, [which I have worked on and done this] would be much easier to repair, especially if it had 6 cylinders. You can remove a cylinderhead without spitting the crankcase, I'm sure this will change once the engine goes into production.If you watch the video, slide over to the 4 min part where they actually start removing the cylinderhead's.:cool::D


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chnIMTCHKbA

element 119

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #53, on August 16th, 2012, 06:37 AM »
Russ expressed having trouble getting Helium because of a supply shortage. Here is one place that could help in the search.

Party City.
http://www.partycity.com/search.do?query=helium+balloons

Many locations available.

8.9 cu ft Helium Tank = $39.99

element 119

phil

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #54, on August 16th, 2012, 08:51 AM »
Quote from element 119 on August 16th, 2012, 06:37 AM
Russ expressed having trouble getting Helium because of a supply shortage. Here is one place that could help in the search.

Party City.
http://www.partycity.com/search.do?query=helium+balloons

Many locations available.

8.9 cu ft Helium Tank = $39.99

element 119
Yeah, I second this. You can get sensible size cannisters of helium from party shops for the balloons, usually have to leave a deposit and return the cylinder once youre done with it.

~Russ

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #55, on August 16th, 2012, 09:14 PM »
Quote from phil on August 16th, 2012, 08:51 AM
Quote from element 119 on August 16th, 2012, 06:37 AM
Russ expressed having trouble getting Helium because of a supply shortage. Here is one place that could help in the search.

Party City.
http://www.partycity.com/search.do?query=helium+balloons

Many locations available.

8.9 cu ft Helium Tank = $39.99

element 119
Yeah, I second this. You can get sensible size canisters of helium from party shops for the balloons, usually have to leave a deposit and return the cylinder once youre done with it.
only prob is that they stopped selling it around here (last i checked) and also we need lab grade 99.9% pure... the balloon gas is like 60 or 80% pure... so its kinds out unless we can refine that gas... lol

good thoughts all.

~Russ
RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #56, on August 16th, 2012, 09:15 PM »
Quote
I think the design could be changed up a little, the cylinders should bolt on the outside of the crankcase, instead of a flange that slides into the crankcase, because, if you end up having to change out a cylinder or an oring on the piston you would have to disassemble the whole engine. Build it like an aircraft engine, [which I have worked on and done this] would be much easier to repair, especially if it had 6 cylinders. You can remove a cylinderhead without spitting the crankcase, I'm sure this will change once the engine goes into production.If you watch the video, slide over to the 4 min part where they actually start removing the cylinderhead's.:cool::D
agreed... would be eazer!!
 ~Russ

CuriousChris

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #57, on August 17th, 2012, 03:11 AM »Last edited on August 17th, 2012, 03:44 AM by CuriousChris
Quote from TinMan on August 11th, 2012, 05:29 AM
Ok -well i must say that this (like Russ said)went all wrong.
First i find it very interesting that CC just so happens to turn up on this very post -for the very first time on this forum,right after Bob dose???
CC-you should look at the system a bit closer befor giveing your expert opion on how something some one else has built-works.
Yes,magnetic fields will react to any metal-if strong enough.
First wrong asumption-the electromagnetic field is what is lifting the ali pistion.
In this case no-you are wrong.
The ali pistion is between the center and bottom of the electro magnet-so any force would have been downward,not up.
Second-the electro magnet is on befor the high amp pulse is sent to the cylender,and the pistion dose not move prior to the high amp pulse being sent to the cylender.This high amp pulse is delivered through two apposing electrode's,and no linear magnetic fields produced by that pulse.
Then to get your knickers in a twist because he wouldnt carry out your test requests is nothing more than childish.
What you have succeeded in doing is getting rid of a very inportant part of this reserch ,and a valuble member of this forum.
Did you CC heed to your own advice and build a replication to proove your theroy?.If so,post the vidio so we can all see your experiments
On IAEC we value everyone's input,and we do not try in any way to discredit any one's work-especially when we cant proove it to be wrong.
This is something maybe Russ and other members should concider implimenting into the ruels of this forum
I do appologise to all for my strong post,but some times things just shouldnt take a direction like this did.
The coincidence is Russ's video. I found it while trying to find information at the plasmerg kit. I had no idea Bob was on here and I have never had any contact with his brother. I assume he found this forum the same way and the timing is not so strange. But if you want to be paranoid be my guest.

I am aware of some of the configuration of the cylinder. The piston is below the centre of the coil. But like you I am unaware of all the details of the configuration. There is apparently a massive chunk of iron directly beneath the piston. That may well effect the shape of the magnetic field generated, The cylinder walls also appear to be aluminium, without more detailed information I could not even guess as to how this would effect the resultant field, it may well concentrate it to the base of the cylinder where the iron is and directly below the piston. But I am only guessing just like you. My guess though is a large field is created and as the piston can't go down it goes up in an attempt to reach ground state.

You don't know that the high current pulse is not going through the coil. You just assume that based on information you may have seen. but you don't know that that's the way it actually works.
Anyway I did not discredit the work of Bob I only asked him if he had tested it to see if the coil was acting like a solenoid. in fact if you read my post I said its "just a theory".
I do find it incredibly odd that Bob had no idea that aluminium reacts strongly with a magnetic field. That is how some maglev trains work. It is an extraordinarily large gap in his knowledge, don't you think?
As for building it. If I could I might try. perhaps you can point me to plans of how to build it. I am not talking about plasmergs 'popper' now, I am talking about the demo one we saw in the Tesla video. I think Bob is quite correct the plasmerg popper is more about discrediting him than proving any true science. I may be wrong though, so I wait on Russ's build.

Did Bob leave because of me? perhaps, but perhaps not. If he took his ball and bat because someone questioned him then what does that say about him? Without even considering other options he called me a liar, abused me, accused me of being a stooge for his brother and then ran away. That says more about him than me. It doesn't go astray on me that while defending Bobs rights you chose to ignore mine.

But I *am* curious, nobody has attempted to answer my question. Where is the energy to drive the system coming from. If we are to believe the conservation of energy laws then it must come from somewhere. I have not heard of these laws being bent by anyone other than crackpots. So I assume they still hold here.
With the assumption that the energy must be derived from somewhere, can someone try to answer that question?

Censoring those that don't say the things you like is of course another option.




Quote from Mrfreedom50 on August 11th, 2012, 01:03 AM
Hey! Russ!
Very excited for you to get the popper project started.
 I’ve seen some people doubting whether this thing is real and if it can produce power. Lets look at what the energy source is and how it functions.
1: Noble Gases and 2: RF wave energy i.e.: electricity and 3: Heat.
With these three things can we make a piston in a cylinder move?
I believe everyone would answer yes! to that question. The Real issue is how efficiently can it be done and also how much power can we produce.

Plasma has already been proven as an energy source. Heat a no brainier!
RF wave energy? Used to create the plasma! Electricity used to create the RF Wave! Sparks????? Does an Electrical Sparking Increase the energy of a soweto plasma? Ionization happens in different ways! So the answer is yes!
So! What do we see happing? I see some one using RF wave energy to bring the gas up to a higher level of excitement than using a electrical spark to cause a plasma burst with reactive elements to enhance that burst and then letting the whole process collapse.
There is no doubt in my mind that this process is real and not nuclear. Plasma is a function of electromagnetic force/Radio Frequency. Turn on your Neon Sign.
Is the Satallite plasma engine a Neuclear Reaction.
Take a look: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=bba_1264267430
The VASIMR (VAriable Specific Impulse Magnetoplasma Rocket) works by using radio waves to ionize a propellant into a plasma and then a magnetic field to accelerate the plasma out of the back of the rocket engine to generate thrust.//

So! What’s the Difference? The Rocket Engine expels the gas. The PPAP engine does not! The Rocket Engine completely converts all the gas to plasma and then accelerates even further. The PPAP Engine does not. The Rocket engine gets HOT!
The PPAP Engine does not! Why! Isn’t there something wrong here! NO!!!
The PPAP Engine does have a thermal component! This Component is both positive and negative. So the net thermal left over is from the Coil heating!


Last But not least. This is exactly how Stanley Myers Electrical generator works.
Plasma is not an energy source its an energy sink. in other words it absorbs energy and the result is light and heat, when it cools from the plasma state it may also release some energy.

"plasma burst with the reactive elements" Are you saying the reactive elements are consumed? converted to energy. If the Papp engine works as described then I don't think there is enough reactive elements in the chamber to power it for long. Or are you talking about something different?

I thought about the self canceling heat and cold with a net result of zero, But I could not come up with a configuration that would work. perhaps you could explain the configuration you had in mind

Jeff Nading

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #58, on August 17th, 2012, 09:13 AM »
Quote from CuriousChris on August 17th, 2012, 03:11 AM
Quote from TinMan on August 11th, 2012, 05:29 AM
Ok -well i must say that this (like Russ said)went all wrong.
First i find it very interesting that CC just so happens to turn up on this very post -for the very first time on this forum,right after Bob dose???
CC-you should look at the system a bit closer befor giveing your expert opion on how something some one else has built-works.
Yes,magnetic fields will react to any metal-if strong enough.
First wrong asumption-the electromagnetic field is what is lifting the ali pistion.
In this case no-you are wrong.
The ali pistion is between the center and bottom of the electro magnet-so any force would have been downward,not up.
Second-the electro magnet is on befor the high amp pulse is sent to the cylender,and the pistion dose not move prior to the high amp pulse being sent to the cylender.This high amp pulse is delivered through two apposing electrode's,and no linear magnetic fields produced by that pulse.
Then to get your knickers in a twist because he wouldnt carry out your test requests is nothing more than childish.
What you have succeeded in doing is getting rid of a very inportant part of this reserch ,and a valuble member of this forum.
Did you CC heed to your own advice and build a replication to proove your theroy?.If so,post the vidio so we can all see your experiments
On IAEC we value everyone's input,and we do not try in any way to discredit any one's work-especially when we cant proove it to be wrong.
This is something maybe Russ and other members should concider implimenting into the ruels of this forum
I do appologise to all for my strong post,but some times things just shouldnt take a direction like this did.
The coincidence is Russ's video. I found it while trying to find information at the plasmerg kit. I had no idea Bob was on here and I have never had any contact with his brother. I assume he found this forum the same way and the timing is not so strange. But if you want to be paranoid be my guest.

I am aware of some of the configuration of the cylinder. The piston is below the centre of the coil. But like you I am unaware of all the details of the configuration. There is apparently a massive chunk of iron directly beneath the piston. That may well effect the shape of the magnetic field generated, The cylinder walls also appear to be aluminium, without more detailed information I could not even guess as to how this would effect the resultant field, it may well concentrate it to the base of the cylinder where the iron is and directly below the piston. But I am only guessing just like you. My guess though is a large field is created and as the piston can't go down it goes up in an attempt to reach ground state.

You don't know that the high current pulse is not going through the coil. You just assume that based on information you may have seen. but you don't know that that's the way it actually works.
Anyway I did not discredit the work of Bob I only asked him if he had tested it to see if the coil was acting like a solenoid. in fact if you read my post I said its "just a theory".
I do find it incredibly odd that Bob had no idea that aluminium reacts strongly with a magnetic field. That is how some maglev trains work. It is an extraordinarily large gap in his knowledge, don't you think?
As for building it. If I could I might try. perhaps you can point me to plans of how to build it. I am not talking about plasmergs 'popper' now, I am talking about the demo one we saw in the Tesla video. I think Bob is quite correct the plasmerg popper is more about discrediting him than proving any true science. I may be wrong though, so I wait on Russ's build.

Did Bob leave because of me? perhaps, but perhaps not. If he took his ball and bat because someone questioned him then what does that say about him? Without even considering other options he called me a liar, abused me, accused me of being a stooge for his brother and then ran away. That says more about him than me. It doesn't go astray on me that while defending Bobs rights you chose to ignore mine.

But I *am* curious, nobody has attempted to answer my question. Where is the energy to drive the system coming from. If we are to believe the conservation of energy laws then it must come from somewhere. I have not heard of these laws being bent by anyone other than crackpots. So I assume they still hold here.
With the assumption that the energy must be derived from somewhere, can someone try to answer that question?

Censoring those that don't say the things you like is of course another option.




Quote from Mrfreedom50 on August 11th, 2012, 01:03 AM
Hey! Russ!
Very excited for you to get the popper project started.
 I’ve seen some people doubting whether this thing is real and if it can produce power. Lets look at what the energy source is and how it functions.
1: Noble Gases and 2: RF wave energy i.e.: electricity and 3: Heat.
With these three things can we make a piston in a cylinder move?
I believe everyone would answer yes! to that question. The Real issue is how efficiently can it be done and also how much power can we produce.

Plasma has already been proven as an energy source. Heat a no brainier!
RF wave energy? Used to create the plasma! Electricity used to create the RF Wave! Sparks????? Does an Electrical Sparking Increase the energy of a soweto plasma? Ionization happens in different ways! So the answer is yes!
So! What do we see happing? I see some one using RF wave energy to bring the gas up to a higher level of excitement than using a electrical spark to cause a plasma burst with reactive elements to enhance that burst and then letting the whole process collapse.
There is no doubt in my mind that this process is real and not nuclear. Plasma is a function of electromagnetic force/Radio Frequency. Turn on your Neon Sign.
Is the Satallite plasma engine a Neuclear Reaction.
Take a look: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=bba_1264267430
The VASIMR (VAriable Specific Impulse Magnetoplasma Rocket) works by using radio waves to ionize a propellant into a plasma and then a magnetic field to accelerate the plasma out of the back of the rocket engine to generate thrust.//

So! What’s the Difference? The Rocket Engine expels the gas. The PPAP engine does not! The Rocket Engine completely converts all the gas to plasma and then accelerates even further. The PPAP Engine does not. The Rocket engine gets HOT!
The PPAP Engine does not! Why! Isn’t there something wrong here! NO!!!
The PPAP Engine does have a thermal component! This Component is both positive and negative. So the net thermal left over is from the Coil heating!


Last But not least. This is exactly how Stanley Myers Electrical generator works.
Plasma is not an energy source its an energy sink. in other words it absorbs energy and the result is light and heat, when it cools from the plasma state it may also release some energy.

"plasma burst with the reactive elements" Are you saying the reactive elements are consumed? converted to energy. If the Papp engine works as described then I don't think there is enough reactive elements in the chamber to power it for long. Or are you talking about something different?

I thought about the self canceling heat and cold with a net result of zero, But I could not come up with a configuration that would work. perhaps you could explain the configuration you had in mind
Hi CC, I think Dr. Keshe will have the answers you are looking for because of cracking the code of plasma, light and energy, the very things that are being discussed here. So please look and research here, very interesting:
http://www.keshefoundation.org/phpbb/index.php
and here:
http://www.keshefoundation.org/en/
This should enlighten everyone as to the fundamentals of these new technologies, especially in the upcoming months, they are going to be released to the world, free. Also, let me just say, all opinions are of value here at this forum, it's just how they are presented as to how they are received, so enjoy, thanks, Jeff.:D:P

Darenzo

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #59, on August 17th, 2012, 03:20 PM »
Well I'm with CC on this one  ... It looks to me as if bob was here to check out his compitition and not to help us in our research..
What it looks like to me is that he is out to line his own pockets and not share his knowlage for the benefit of mankind..
You are your own ambassador .. If you want to throw your toys out of the pram and make yourself look like a dick please do it else where this is not the place or if you want to help us make a positive change in the world for all ,then please share you knowlage....
Surely honest and open discussion is the way to go??

~Russ

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #60, on August 17th, 2012, 11:13 PM »Last edited on August 17th, 2012, 11:14 PM by ~Russ/Rwg42985
Quote
Surely honest and open discussion is the way to go??
yes. lets keep moving forward on the subject at hand and less about people things and stuff...

CC... no worries! lets just keep going...

lets get back to plasma gasses motors and how to make it work...

as for me I'm still waiting for the popper kit (so i can get the coil specs) an also trying to get these company to sell me some gas... freekin crazy guys take there sweet time on these gas quotes... i bet it if flashed some money in front of them maybe they will hurry up!!!

ill post more as we go on...

I'm thinking this could be a non moving parts "solid state" device instead of capturing the pressure... hummm. we will see after we get poppin.  

~Russ

soreron

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #61, on August 18th, 2012, 12:09 AM »
Russ
Newbie here just joined and like you just discovered the Noble gas engine.

Just to point out

Bob is the only guy to show a 'working demo' and is the only guy to actually show it to the public, even inviting them to examine his equipment WITHOUT asking for money up front.

Seems like a man who's exasperated with all the naysayers.

I should think you and he have a lot in common.

I genuinely think he would help you out an awful lot more if he could.  I hope you contact him privately and maybe go and see him.

Remember he comes from a different generation, that doesn't really 'get' open source.

Be wary of the inteligentry folk.
Just my 2 cents worth

Keep on the good work !

Sore Ron
ps the name is a p*ss take about the Lord of the Rings,  I'm not really that sore!

~Russ

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #62, on August 18th, 2012, 03:38 AM »Last edited on August 18th, 2012, 03:39 AM by ~Russ/Rwg42985
Quote from soreron on August 18th, 2012, 12:09 AM
Russ
Newbie here just joined and like you just discovered the Noble gas engine.
well about a year or more ago... :)
Quote
Bob is the only guy to show a 'working demo' and is the only guy to actually show it to the public, even inviting them to examine his equipment WITHOUT asking for money up front.

Seems like a man who's exasperated with all the naysayers.

I should think you and he have a lot in common.

I genuinely think he would help you out an awful lot more if he could.  I hope you contact him privately and maybe go and see him.
yep. he is an open harted guy, thus the reason why he left. its easy to offend people that are open harted. but he did respond to my email. so time will tell...
Quote
Remember he comes from a different generation, that doesn't really 'get' open source.
i dont now about this one... how do we know this? he has been a real help for me so far... not "hiding" anything when i ask him a question...
Quote
Be wary of the inteligentry folk.
Just my 2 cents worth
time will tell...
Quote
Keep on the good work !
thanks bro! keep up the support !!! its always needed!!

~Russ

TinMan

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #63, on August 18th, 2012, 08:58 PM »
Quote from CuriousChris on August 17th, 2012, 03:11 AM
Quote from TinMan on August 11th, 2012, 05:29 AM
Ok -well i must say that this (like Russ said)went all wrong.
First i find it very interesting that CC just so happens to turn up on this very post -for the very first time on this forum,right after Bob dose???
CC-you should look at the system a bit closer befor giveing your expert opion on how something some one else has built-works.
Yes,magnetic fields will react to any metal-if strong enough.
First wrong asumption-the electromagnetic field is what is lifting the ali pistion.
In this case no-you are wrong.
The ali pistion is between the center and bottom of the electro magnet-so any force would have been downward,not up.
Second-the electro magnet is on befor the high amp pulse is sent to the cylender,and the pistion dose not move prior to the high amp pulse being sent to the cylender.This high amp pulse is delivered through two apposing electrode's,and no linear magnetic fields produced by that pulse.
Then to get your knickers in a twist because he wouldnt carry out your test requests is nothing more than childish.
What you have succeeded in doing is getting rid of a very inportant part of this reserch ,and a valuble member of this forum.
Did you CC heed to your own advice and build a replication to proove your theroy?.If so,post the vidio so we can all see your experiments
On IAEC we value everyone's input,and we do not try in any way to discredit any one's work-especially when we cant proove it to be wrong.
This is something maybe Russ and other members should concider implimenting into the ruels of this forum
I do appologise to all for my strong post,but some times things just shouldnt take a direction like this did.
The coincidence is Russ's video. I found it while trying to find information at the plasmerg kit. I had no idea Bob was on here and I have never had any contact with his brother. I assume he found this forum the same way and the timing is not so strange. But if you want to be paranoid be my guest.

I am aware of some of the configuration of the cylinder. The piston is below the centre of the coil. But like you I am unaware of all the details of the configuration. There is apparently a massive chunk of iron directly beneath the piston. That may well effect the shape of the magnetic field generated, The cylinder walls also appear to be aluminium, without more detailed information I could not even guess as to how this would effect the resultant field, it may well concentrate it to the base of the cylinder where the iron is and directly below the piston. But I am only guessing just like you. My guess though is a large field is created and as the piston can't go down it goes up in an attempt to reach ground state.

You don't know that the high current pulse is not going through the coil. You just assume that based on information you may have seen. but you don't know that that's the way it actually works.
Anyway I did not discredit the work of Bob I only asked him if he had tested it to see if the coil was acting like a solenoid. in fact if you read my post I said its "just a theory".
I do find it incredibly odd that Bob had no idea that aluminium reacts strongly with a magnetic field. That is how some maglev trains work. It is an extraordinarily large gap in his knowledge, don't you think?
As for building it. If I could I might try. perhaps you can point me to plans of how to build it. I am not talking about plasmergs 'popper' now, I am talking about the demo one we saw in the Tesla video. I think Bob is quite correct the plasmerg popper is more about discrediting him than proving any true science. I may be wrong though, so I wait on Russ's build.

Did Bob leave because of me? perhaps, but perhaps not. If he took his ball and bat because someone questioned him then what does that say about him? Without even considering other options he called me a liar, abused me, accused me of being a stooge for his brother and then ran away. That says more about him than me. It doesn't go astray on me that while defending Bobs rights you chose to ignore mine.

But I *am* curious, nobody has attempted to answer my question. Where is the energy to drive the system coming from. If we are to believe the conservation of energy laws then it must come from somewhere. I have not heard of these laws being bent by anyone other than crackpots. So I assume they still hold here.
With the assumption that the energy must be derived from somewhere, can someone try to answer that question?

Censoring those that don't say the things you like is of course another option.




Quote from Mrfreedom50 on August 11th, 2012, 01:03 AM
Hey! Russ!
Very excited for you to get the popper project started.
 I’ve seen some people doubting whether this thing is real and if it can produce power. Lets look at what the energy source is and how it functions.
1: Noble Gases and 2: RF wave energy i.e.: electricity and 3: Heat.
With these three things can we make a piston in a cylinder move?
I believe everyone would answer yes! to that question. The Real issue is how efficiently can it be done and also how much power can we produce.

Plasma has already been proven as an energy source. Heat a no brainier!
RF wave energy? Used to create the plasma! Electricity used to create the RF Wave! Sparks????? Does an Electrical Sparking Increase the energy of a soweto plasma? Ionization happens in different ways! So the answer is yes!
So! What do we see happing? I see some one using RF wave energy to bring the gas up to a higher level of excitement than using a electrical spark to cause a plasma burst with reactive elements to enhance that burst and then letting the whole process collapse.
There is no doubt in my mind that this process is real and not nuclear. Plasma is a function of electromagnetic force/Radio Frequency. Turn on your Neon Sign.
Is the Satallite plasma engine a Neuclear Reaction.
Take a look: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=bba_1264267430
The VASIMR (VAriable Specific Impulse Magnetoplasma Rocket) works by using radio waves to ionize a propellant into a plasma and then a magnetic field to accelerate the plasma out of the back of the rocket engine to generate thrust.//

So! What’s the Difference? The Rocket Engine expels the gas. The PPAP engine does not! The Rocket Engine completely converts all the gas to plasma and then accelerates even further. The PPAP Engine does not. The Rocket engine gets HOT!
The PPAP Engine does not! Why! Isn’t there something wrong here! NO!!!
The PPAP Engine does have a thermal component! This Component is both positive and negative. So the net thermal left over is from the Coil heating!


Last But not least. This is exactly how Stanley Myers Electrical generator works.
Plasma is not an energy source its an energy sink. in other words it absorbs energy and the result is light and heat, when it cools from the plasma state it may also release some energy.

"plasma burst with the reactive elements" Are you saying the reactive elements are consumed? converted to energy. If the Papp engine works as described then I don't think there is enough reactive elements in the chamber to power it for long. Or are you talking about something different?

I thought about the self canceling heat and cold with a net result of zero, But I could not come up with a configuration that would work. perhaps you could explain the configuration you had in mind
Anyway I did not discredit the work of Bob I only asked him if he had tested it to see if the coil was acting like a solenoid.
Quote-Now that I better understand Bob Rohners lack of understanding about magnets I can say the "popper" as displayed by Bob Rohner is probably a solenoid. the flux is a sideshow. the magicians slight of hand. but even the magician is not aware he is doing it.
 
Well CC- i guess some of us have a diferent opinion  of discredidt.
Also your statement- If we are to believe the conservation of energy laws then it must come from somewhere. I have not heard of these laws being bent by anyone other than crackpots.

Well CC,i would like to see where these test have been carried out by scientist useing the same gas mix-under the same condition's?
All these laws you speak of, as something that are absolute,are made by man who dosnt know all there is to know.So with that in mind-how are these laws absolute?.
And further more,if some one like me were to show a magnet motor running under it's own power(this ofcourse breaking several of the writen laws) would you then concider me a crackpot?

When you stick to these inperfect law's ,written by inperfect beings -you will never succeed in going forward.
It's this simple-man dosnt know all there is to know.Man hasnt tested every thing there is to test.So man cannot write laws on what he dosnt know.

So i ask you-if Russ gets his popper to work,and he says it dose indeed work-will you then ask him to do all these test of yours to prove to you that it dose indeed work?
If Russ tells me it work's-then that is good enough for me.

Your previous encounter with Bob should never have been brought to this forum-its that simple.
To have Bob here was a very inportant part of this reserch,and all members should be treated with respect.
No one should have to proove there worth to any one else.



Darenzo

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #64, on August 19th, 2012, 01:47 PM »
This kind of thing was bound to happen sooner or later with someones ego getting bashed .. Look we are all here for the same Reason and that is to share our collective knowlage for the greater good is it not??
So please can we all kiss and make up ..!
Oh yeah and get back to the good stuff (like the Nobel gas motor) :)

bjrohner

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #65, on August 19th, 2012, 02:06 PM »
I do find it incredibly odd that Bob had no idea that aluminium reacts strongly with a magnetic field. That is how some maglev trains work. It is an extraordinarily large gap in his knowledge, don't you think?

 
Plasma has already been proven as an energy source.

Now that I better understand Bob Rohners lack of understanding about magnets I can say the "popper" as displayed by Bob Rohner is probably a solenoid. the flux is a sideshow. the magicians slight of hand. but even the magician is not aware he is doing it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Guys

Yes, I'm really sensitive about John. At my age I should be enjoying life. Instead
I have to deal with his crap.  
 
I do find it incredibly odd that you are attempting to crack into the operation of a Papp engine without reading or considering his patent. The second thing I find disturbing is your willingness to draw conclusions without reviewing the data. Taken together,  I now better understand your lack of understanding.  

 I clearly state during the presentation that the coil is entirely unnecessary for single cylinder operation. If you view the cylinder operations on my web-site you will see that I run without just as much as with. The coil is on there just to test its output and no other reason. However,  if the coil is timed incorrectly it will totally suppress the operation.  

The back-emf involved with the three coils during the down-stroke serve to help pre-excite the opposite cylinder. On the upstroke they are all on at 24vdc to re-layer forcing the argon into the middle layer for capturing the deposited charge. The reversing is simply to prevent the material from becoming magnetized which would lead to unwanted effects and kill the engine.

Lets discuss your aluminum in the coil and your solenoid theory. I don't know anything about your Plasmerg popper, but the both the piston and head of a papp engine is made out of ferrous Iron. The chamber is surrounded by stainless steel.

I understand just enough about magnets to get in trouble. The complexities in things like a maglev system are so great that many answers can only be derived by experimentation and I don't have godzillions of dollars or enough time left in my life to worry about it. I will tell you that the 24 volts DC on a thousand turns of number 18 wire which is roughly what these coil are will hardly pick up a screw driver let alone drive a piston at almost a thousand pounds of force.

One other thing, Plasma is not an energy source, it is a state of matter. I do find it incredibly odd that you don't realize this. It is an extraordinarily large gap in someone's knowledge, don't you think?

How do you spell touche??? Another gap in my learning I suppose.

Jeff Nading

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #66, on August 19th, 2012, 03:06 PM »
Quote from bjrohner on August 19th, 2012, 02:06 PM
I do find it incredibly odd that Bob had no idea that aluminium reacts strongly with a magnetic field. That is how some maglev trains work. It is an extraordinarily large gap in his knowledge, don't you think?

 
Plasma has already been proven as an energy source.

Now that I better understand Bob Rohners lack of understanding about magnets I can say the "popper" as displayed by Bob Rohner is probably a solenoid. the flux is a sideshow. the magicians slight of hand. but even the magician is not aware he is doing it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Guys

Yes, I'm really sensitive about John. At my age I should be enjoying life. Instead
I have to deal with his crap.  
 
I do find it incredibly odd that you are attempting to crack into the operation of a Papp engine without reading or considering his patent. The second thing I find disturbing is your willingness to draw conclusions without reviewing the data. Taken together,  I now better understand your lack of understanding.  

 I clearly state during the presentation that the coil is entirely unnecessary for single cylinder operation. If you view the cylinder operations on my web-site you will see that I run without just as much as with. The coil is on there just to test its output and no other reason. However,  if the coil is timed incorrectly it will totally suppress the operation.  

The back-emf involved with the three coils during the down-stroke serve to help pre-excite the opposite cylinder. On the upstroke they are all on at 24vdc to re-layer forcing the argon into the middle layer for capturing the deposited charge. The reversing is simply to prevent the material from becoming magnetized which would lead to unwanted effects and kill the engine.

Lets discuss your aluminum in the coil and your solenoid theory. I don't know anything about your Plasmerg popper, but the both the piston and head of a papp engine is made out of ferrous Iron. The chamber is surrounded by stainless steel.

I understand just enough about magnets to get in trouble. The complexities in things like a maglev system are so great that many answers can only be derived by experimentation and I don't have godzillions of dollars or enough time left in my life to worry about it. I will tell you that the 24 volts DC on a thousand turns of number 18 wire which is roughly what these coil are will hardly pick up a screw driver let alone drive a piston at almost a thousand pounds of force.

One other thing, Plasma is not an energy source, it is a state of matter. I do find it incredibly odd that you don't realize this. It is an extraordinarily large gap in someone's knowledge, don't you think?

How do you spell touche??? Another gap in my learning I suppose.
Hi Bob, I would like to thank you for coming back to the forum here. I am sorry for all the turmoil and things that were said. I really believe that we have and need to show honor and respect to one another. As I'm sure you can see, we really need your help in  understanding some of the principles you know, from working with them from day to day. Any one who has worked with coils can understand it takes a very large coil to move dead weight and takes less energy once an object is in motion, to get the energy back out is the awesome part . This achievement you have accomplished is major and would like to learn more about it, if you are willing . Thank you Bob for posting, Jeff.:D  

Forum Administrator

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #67, on August 19th, 2012, 08:38 PM »

Hi Bob, I would like to thank you for coming back to the forum here. I am sorry for all the turmoil and things that were said. I really believe that we have and need to show honor and respect to one another. As I'm sure you can see, we really need your help in  understanding some of the principles you know, from working with them from day to day. Any one who has worked with coils can understand it takes a very large coil to move dead weight and takes less energy once an object is in motion, to get the energy back out is the awesome part . This achievement you have accomplished is major and would like to learn more about it, if you are willing . Thank you Bob for posting, Jeff.:D[/quote]I second that notion, I wish I had more time to do some moderation, but I must say . .

Rule #1 = LOVE AND RESPECT YOUR BROTHERS ON THIS FORUM.  This is directed at no single member of the forum, this is a must have for this open source sharing to work :).

The very last thing I want to see is for someone to be offended and leave, taking some valuable information with them.

Glad to have ANYONE back who has decided to leave after being offended by someone else here.

Darenzo

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #68, on August 20th, 2012, 08:01 AM »
Welcome back bob :)

bjrohner

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #69, on August 21st, 2012, 10:55 AM »Last edited on August 24th, 2012, 11:02 AM by Jeff Nading
Quote from Darenzo on August 20th, 2012, 08:01 AM
Welcome back bob :)
I don't really need his acceptance, I do in fact enjoy logical criticism and the comradeship of discovery.  But, You should not expect me to get down to the nitty-gritty. I have investors who would like to make money some day. Can't be helped. In retrospect, it was certainly a good decision not to involve him.  Something you should consider.

Any new word on the Kit?

Jeff Nading

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #70, on August 21st, 2012, 11:29 AM »Last edited on August 24th, 2012, 11:01 AM by Jeff Nading
Quote from bjrohner on August 21st, 2012, 10:55 AM
Quote from Darenzo on August 20th, 2012, 08:01 AM
Welcome back bob :)
I don't really need his acceptance, I do in fact enjoy logical criticism and the comradeship of discovery.  But, You should not expect me to get down to the nitty-gritty. I have investors who would like to make money some day. Can't be helped. In retrospect, it was certainly a good decision not to involve him.  Something you should consider.

Any new word on the Kit?
I also have been watching Rossi with some interest, thank you for your support, Jeff.:D

~Russ

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #71, on August 21st, 2012, 02:36 PM »Last edited on August 21st, 2012, 02:40 PM by ~Russ/Rwg42985
I'll post any new information is I get it on the kit or on your Information...

Bob. About the last email to me, what's up with that? was that to me? Or what?

I do not "pick sides" I'm here to learn, share, and help those who are willing to put up there work. As you are. I can see you have investers and are one day goong to be "making money" but untill that day, my goal is to not lose all the information we have gained, after you who is there? I hope some one, we do not want to lose your hard work and information.  We are here to support every one, so as you can see I have been Nothing but nice, helpfull and as always giving credit to those who I see deserve it. Including you  

Any way. I will be posting an update video soon and will voice my opinion on all this interesting information/stuff soon...

~Russ Gries

bjrohner

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #72, on August 21st, 2012, 05:45 PM »


Any way. I will be posting an update video soon and will voice my opinion on all this interesting information/stuff soon...

~Russ Gries
____

Russ, I deeply apologize for that. I am extremely uncomfortable with all this sudden attention I am receiving. It seems that  misquoting and malicious fabrications about are the norm. Poor me, Right. Anyway, I'm not yet sure who my friends are so forgive me please.  I enjoy logical well considered technical criticism so don't be gentle in that regard.  One thing I want to be sure you understand, I just can't tell you how we do our process. I have responsibilities to my business and my co-owner.    

I see that Sterling just started to attack John for all his fraud. One thing he says is not true. When you get your popper, I don't believe you will have any trouble procuring the gas. My midsize tank of premix cost $1700 but you don't want premix anyway. Premix is not accurate to more that 3 or 4% and more expensive.

To start out with get high grade lab bottles of each gas, make up the septums as I told you, and buy used regulators.  Using the multiple syringe method you can go quite fast and will be much more accurate than with premix. Be sure to establish a routine to open fill and close. I once let a container of premix cracked open all  weekend. Monday morning bye bye $1700. Generally, You can open the main valve and just close it again as the pressurized gas in the regulator is sufficient for several charges. Xenon is quite expensive but one lab bottle of it will last forever as its percentage is so small. I buy from Prexaire but I'm sure airgas will be just as competitive.  

I'm sure you know this but keep careful records. I simply use my web cam to capture and later transcribe into notes.  If you don't you will be lost in no time. When you start charting power it's best to setup excel with the formulas. As smart as you guys are it's probably child's play for you. You will discover that different mixes (and individual gasses ) will result in different outputs and a very deep dark secret about helium. This is especially true when considering the cross over voltages (waste) that you will capture.


TinMan

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #73, on August 21st, 2012, 09:58 PM »
Hi Bob
Thanks for coming back after that not so nice stuff


geert8550

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #74, on August 22nd, 2012, 12:18 AM »Last edited on August 22nd, 2012, 12:52 AM by geert8550
What the noble gases concern. With the technology of MT Keshe noble gases are also used namely hydrogen, helium, argon, xenon and neon. Neon serves as an insulator between the other gases. This mixture is also under vacuum in the central tank (sphere or hemisphere) left where it rotates at high speed. The gases automatically take their place according to their specific gravity by the centrifugal force. In this sphere are electro-magnets, via a column, which can be controlled from the outside. One can polaritatie flip, enlarge or combined, depending on what you want to achieve as antigraviteit, electricity, gas or absorption of proteins from the ambient air.
These technologies leaning close together with the difference that Keshe creates a double magnetic field which the phenomena of the universe imitate. The technologies are both based on plasma technology, which is clearly the future. Very interesting so for open source projects.
The Papp engine may possibly be a start to get acquainted with the use of noble gases for later might make a Kesh plasma generator.

Geert