Russ asked:
"Kcd hows your progress? haven't taken the time to tell you fantastic job your doing over there where you are. the controller and motor are amazing. please post progress!!"

Well, I've been thinking...

Just for a moment, I would like everyone reading this to think back to the first time you heard about the noble gas engine.  My first reaction was that it won't do doodly squat!  Chances are (be honest) your reaction was the same.  Not only will it not run, but claims of over unity, well, that's just totally absurd!  But then there were the videos, poor quality, yes.. recorded on film, or the best 20 pound BetaMax of the time.  The videos got me interested, but not convinced.  So next, a look at the patents; because, the patent office simply does not accept applications for perpetual motion machines, right?  But the patents were issued...  So something, somewhere must have some merit, and admittedly, that's when I got hooked, not convinced, just hooked.

So I decided that the only way I would be truly convinced is to build an engine for my self, after all, the patent specifications should have a complete and thorough description of the build, otherwise the patent may be later challenged, and deemed invalid.

But, we are not the first to attempt such a build.  It has been thirty plus years.  Think back.  The computers at the time were the Apple II, Commodore 64, and the TRS-80.  Research then, was to go to the library and look up patents, or publications.  There was no internet, or at least, not as we know it today.

I suppose my point is that countless many others have tried and failed.  Some may have published their attempts, but more likely, they kept the information to themselves and just filled journals with their thoughts, sketches, and data.  The test hardware and journals now forgotten about, lost, or thrown away.

So if the NGE is for real, what are we, and the countless other experimenters before us, missing? The 'It_s_Not_HHO' guy (sorry, I don't know who the guy is) brings up some interesting points about the gas processing.  He hesitates to use the word 'magic'.  The first time he said it, he corrected himself, but then went ahead and used the 'm' word a second time.

I hate to say it, but possibly there is something magic going on in the gas processing.  I (we all) have read the Papp patents several times.  My first reaction, especially to the gas processing apparatus section, was 'what a bunch of crap this is!'

Did Papp use wording in his patents to confuse and hide vital information?  Some say yes, I say no. Was Papp protective and paranoid? We all likely agree on this one - yes. Personally, I have some limited knowledge of the patent process.  To enjoy the full protection of the patent process one must fully disclose, within the patent specification (the description portion) full and complete instructions such that one (skilled in the art) can build a working model of the device.  If it is found that the patent specification fails in this regard, the patent may be deemed invalid.  Did Papp know this?  Of course he did.  He knew that he must describe every single detail of every step of the build and the process.  Why?  Because he did not understand why it worked, and therefore did not know which detail was important and which was not - so you can't go wrong by piling everything in there – and he did!  His patents are long and wordy.  (Compare to Klostermann's patent - Klostermann had no clue how the thing worked, and is shows.)  Papp attempted to explain things that he may or may not have understood, and which may or may not have survived the Hungarian to English translation.  He attempted to explain where the energy came from, for if he did not, or stated that it come from the 'ether', then he knew that would provoke an immediate and very final rejection from the Patent Office.

I believe, as the it's-not-HHO-guy suggests, that the gas processing is the next area that need's to be explored.  In the video, he suggests that the first Papp patent (US3670494) contains all the information we need, and perhaps it does.  He suggests that when Papp 'ran the apparatus to mix the chlorine and the gas', that what in actuality occurred was an electrolyzing process where he ‘ran it with the dc generator on, the ac generator off’ to build the material that supplies the energy.'  He suggests that electrolysis is possibly the answer.  Maybe so.

But if you read the Papp patent, without trying to read between the lines too much, you can see that there is a 6 hour or longer 'build of material' ionizing process using the AC voltage of 110 to 440 volts.  Perhaps the words "The contents of the cylinder are then cycled, agitated or otherwise mixed to cause some of the chlorine to become absorbed by the water" means simply just that, and nothing more.

The gas processing apparatus on US4428193 is explained in great detail.  So much detail, that it is easy to dismiss the whole thing as total nonsense.  Perhaps it is - perhaps it is not.  Within the long list of components of gas apparatus are several ionizing heads.  Wow, could this be the important part?  This was also done in the first patent.  But what about the desert cannon demo?  Papp had flasks of the various gases and injected them into the cannon.  Did the flasks contain isolated gases?  I suggest that the contents of the flasks were all the same, and mixed and pre-processed before showing up for the demo.

So what about the JR engine, or the JR popper.  Anything work there? No mention of gas processing there, right?  I wish to now present a quote from Chuck, before he got worried about disclosing to much of the Plasmerg IP.

"The manual calls for using an old CB radio tuned to channel 12. The CB antenna output is connected to a fitting that you scrounge from somewhere. Your're supposed to drill a hole in the head and run the RF antenna wire in a semi circle inside the head cavity. When you get ready to fire the piston, you turn on the 60V DC to your homemade coil, key the CB talk button, then hit the red button on the control box. You're supposed to get a "pop" movement of the piston. Crude, yes. But, it is supposed to demonstrate the "Plasma Transition" principal.

Chuck"

Chuck also provided us with a video of the ignition coils.  The ignition coils are not 'fired' conventionally, but are fed bursts of pulses, a more of a 'buzz' than a 'fire'.  Hmmm, an ionizing AC voltage again. Anyone seeing a pattern?  Suppose JR, either knowingly, or unknowingly spilled the beans on the essential portion of the gas processing?  Turn on the magnetic coil, put a tie-wrap on the push to talk lever, and  put a brick on the red button until something happens.  Has anyone tried all of these combined together?  JR didn't mention 6 hours...  But, there are a lot of things JR fails to mention...

So, a magnetic coil and RF.  Are these mentioned by Papp for gas processing?  In US3670494 - no, in US4428193 - yes.  How about BR, does he process?  Below is a photo of his (current working, or former non-working) gas apparatus.  I am beginning to think processing the gas may actually be important…

I hope that I have incited some interest in others who have read this to pursue work along these same lines.  I have no desire to build the contraption that Papp proposes in US4428193.  I don’t want to fill some sort of multi-tube contraption with expensive gases, relying on no air contamination by using a proper pump down and having zero leaks.  And how do you get the gas back out?  Pressurize the whole thing (dangerous) or use a pump (contamination potential) to withdraw (some) of the gas out for use?  Well, KISS may be the answer.

I have built a batch ‘gas processor.’  I have a long cylindrical 0.5 liter jar (a $1.47 candle from the grocery store, 2.25” dia x 8” tall) that I wore two holes in the flat bottom (or top when in use as a gas container) (dremel and cheap diamond bits from Harb. Freight).  A small hole in the center with a stainless steel rod epoxied in, and a larger hole close to the edge with a septa (polyurethane rubber sheet cut with a 3/8” hole cutting die) (don’t use silicone rubber, it tears and it my possibly core when the needle is inserted) sealed in place (silicone seal seems to work ok for the sealant).  The jar filled with water in a bucket filled with water and inverted to form a water seal.  Inject the gases through the septa, remove the jar using a small pan to maintain the water seal.  Apply various voltages to the center electrode, wrap an antenna around it, apply RF, put a magnetic coil over it, etc.  When the gas is ready to be removed, put the jar back into deep water and withdraw the gas, at a slight positive pressure, through the septa.  

To test the gas, I have several small transparent plastic pill bottles, about 50 to 60 ml in size.  Drilled a hole in the center bottom, inserted a septa, super glue applied around the edge for a sealant.  A paper clip reshaped to form a self-standing vertical post.  Well, anyway, you probably get the picture, put the post in the bottle, fill with water, invert in a small metal pan, inject 30 ml or so of test gas, remove the needle and insert a straight pin, allow about a ¼’ gap to the metal post, stand behind your polycarbonate shield, and pop the thing with an automotive coil, or a small neon trans former.  Try to use an electrical stimulus that does NOT otherwise make air or an unprocessed noble gas mix go ka-blu-ee.

Time for me to go eat my turkey bologna and boxed mashed taters.
Peace.
kcd

PS By now, most of you may think my controller is just a myth - can't blame you.  I'm a bit of a perfectionist.  I will be releasing it soon.

Quote from k c dias on November 22nd, 2012, 12:46 PM

... and admittedly, that's when I got hooked, not convinced, just hooked.

I became a believer too after the video's, seeing it run with so much horsepower on the dynamo.

I think one can make a patent and still keep stuff in the dark. Papp liked to be needed...

I'm not sure how many others have tried it, i don't think of them as a whole bunch.

Quote

The test hardware and journals now forgotten about, lost, or thrown away.

That's why i am so curious about the old users of the engine's. They have been working/turning at some places around america. And later have been bought up by rohner and consortium or so.

Quote

So if the NGE is for real, what are we, and the countless other experimenters before us, missing?

We don't know yet what we are missing. If the Bob Rohner setup has enough power... then his mix has the magic still.
If we can duplicate with the separate gases.. then no magic mix is needed, or magic gas threatment.

Quote

I hate to say it, but possibly there is something magic going on in the gas processing.  I (we all) have read the Papp patents several times.  My first reaction, especially to the gas processing apparatus section, was 'what a bunch of crap this is!'

And i still like to think that. Unless Papp added a physical something, like you mention about chlorine. But when he only ionized stuff then i think that effect might linger off after a while.

I hope we can push off the complicated gasmagic till there is no other explanation left. Just from practical stands, and because its such an unclear process.

Quote

Papp had flasks of the various gases and injected them into the cannon.  Did the flasks contain isolated gases?  I suggest that the contents of the flasks were all the same, and mixed and pre-processed before showing up for the demo.

Your right could be both, we just don't know yet.
But we know Papp injected the gases separately into the engine, and we think that the premix isn't good enough. Although Bob's premix could be good enough if we measure and calculate what his poppersetup produces with it.
Bob's mix was done by Papp, Russ mix is just the mix of the gases.

Quote

So what about the JR engine, or the JR popper.  Anything work there? No mention of gas processing there, right?

That's again another reason to check 11 dec. closely. Their could be more ways to Rome, then only the Pappway. And lucky if so.
And we hope to find out how the RF is used by JR.

But i think all agree KCD that the finer aspects of the papp engine are still to be found out. But also notice that the last month we are more theorizing then really experimenting. Its frustrating, but in your case you could still try to get the engine running on helium or h2 no? What if you use those plasmasparkplugs, and by placing a diode from the ground to the top of the ignition coil (wasn't it something like that?) to get more spark. At least you have the reassurance that a pop is possible. Maybe Russ can sent ye some big caps?

Quote

I hope that I have incited some interest in others who have read this to pursue work along these same lines.  I have no desire to build the contraption that Papp proposes in US4428193.

I hope so too, maybe some elementry work could be done on a setup that is even simpler then the popper. But its difficult to find builders, i see that with other do-able devices that need proof.

own made processor:
Can't picture what you build, but would love to see a  picture

Quote

Time for me to go eat my turkey bologna and boxed mashed taters.

Hmm sounds good, but what are boxed(?) smashed potatoes?

Tonight i made porkmeat with prumes and applestroop..it simmert for an hour, its for tomorrow. ;)

In his patents, Papp mentioned the use of chlorine in pre-processing his noble gases.

What role does chlorine play in the Papp reaction?

Starting out with some background, it was initially believed that the noble gases could not form compounds due to their full valence shell of electrons that rendered them very chemically stable and unreactive.
 
All noble gases have full s and p outer electron shells (except helium, which has no p sublevel), and so do not form chemical compounds easily.

Because of their high ionization energy and almost zero electron affinity, they were not expected to be reactive.

The heavier noble gases (HNG), Xenon, Krypton, and Argon have more electron shells than the lighter ones. Hence, the outermost electrons experience a shielding effect from the inner electrons that makes them more easily ionized, since they are less strongly attracted to the positively-charged nucleus. This results in an ionization energy low enough to form stable compounds when they are in the ionized state with the most electronegative elements, fluorine and oxygen, and even with less electronegative elements such as nitrogen and carbon under certain circumstances, and of interest to the Papp engine, Chlorine.



Short-lived excimers of Xe2 and noble gas halides such as XeCl2 are used in excimer lasers.

An excimer (originally short for excited dimer) is a short-lived dimeric or heterodimeric molecule formed from two species, at least one of which is in an electronic excited state (in our case HNG).

Excimer is often diatomic and are composed of two atoms or molecules that would not bond if both were in the ground state.

 The lifetime of an excimer is very short, on the order of nanoseconds. Binding of a larger number of excited atoms form Rydberg matter clusters, the lifetime of which can exceed many seconds.

Excimer can be generated by, Dielectric Barrier Discharges(DBD). The DBD process normally uses high voltage alternating current, ranging from lower RF to microwave frequencies.

An excimer laser (sometimes more correctly called an exciplex laser) is a form of ultraviolet laser which is commonly used in the production of microelectronic devices (semiconductor integrated circuits or “chips”), eye surgery, and micromachining.

Laser action in an excimer molecule occurs because it has a bound (associative) excited state, but a repulsive (dissociative) ground state.

This is because noble gases such as xenon and krypton are highly inert and do not usually form chemical compounds. However, when in an excited state (induced by an electrical discharge or high-energy electron beams, which produce high energy pulses), they can form temporarily-bound molecules with themselves (dimers) or with halogens (complexes) such as fluorine and chlorine.
 
The excited compound can give up its excess energy by undergoing spontaneous or stimulated emission, resulting in a strongly repulsive ground state molecule which very quickly (on the order of a picosecond) dissociates back into two unbound atoms. This forms a population inversion.

The addition of chlorine in the Chorine Papp reaction will generate ultraviolet laser light radiation.

 

It seems that chlorine does play an important role in the Papp reaction, not as a pre-processing noble gas agent but as an active reactant in the mainline reaction cascade.

The UV laser radiation catalyzed by chorine will simulate the formation of large superatomic clusters in Xenon gas.

These positively charge ions are very massive being comprised of a thousand or more of extra heavy atoms formed in the crystalline shape of  Buckyballs.



This heavy cluster of atoms is the force and momentum carriers that transport the reactive force derived from the expansion of the lighter noble gases to the face of the cylinder.

These clusters are enclosed inside the ring shaped plasmoid produced by the field reversed spark discharge.


This UV laser radiation replaces RF radiation as a source of Xenon cluster formation.
 

The venerable and ancient ball and powder model of old style firearms can be used to illustrate the essential workings  of the Papp reaction. This BALL POWDER process compares the light noble gases as the powder and the heavy noble gases as the ball.

In the old style firearms of yesteryear, the powder produces the energy for the ball to be launched forward. The ball carries the energy and momentum of the powder to the target.

Without the ball, the powder is ineffective in projecting and concentrating its force onto the target.

Experimentally, we have seen that helium produces a robust expansion of the gas in the Papp cylinder.

We have also seen that the heavy noble gases expand poorly.

In current day implementations of ion engines, Xenon is used exclusively as the reactant because of its high atomic weight. This high atomic weight of the heavy noble gases including Xenon make them good at transferring momentum from the spark discharge to the face of the piston.

But like the BALL POWDER process, both  the heavy and light components of the process are indispensable to proper operation of the Papp process.
   
 

Quote from Axil on November 22nd, 2012, 08:05 PM

But like the BALL POWDER process, both  the heavy and light components of the process are indispensable to proper operation of the Papp process.

So if this theory holds true for the Pappengine, we should add a small amount of clorine or other heavy negative's to the gas inside the chamber.

I think it also could lengthen the POP. First the Cl bonds, then it returns to lower state and emitts and with that clusters are formed to run against the piston.

On the other hand... what is the power made of in the POP..? And if it is the seize of a potatoe, then should it matter if it has lumps inside it or consists of only smooth puree? Its still the same total mass, that never changed..?

If charge separation is the ultimate cause of LENR, then Xenon has to be at the top of the LENR catalytic pile.

Coincidently, a new article about ionization of noble gases that has just appeared in PhysOrg indicates that Xenon could be the Top contender for LENR reactivity because of its surprising ability to be ionized.

Xenon has achieved record ionization: X-ray laser removes more than two shells from electron cloud surrounding noble gas atoms


Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2012-11-ionization-x-ray-laser-shells-electron.html#jCp

With only one flash of the world's most powerful X-ray laser, an international team headed by Daniel Rolles ejected 36 electrons from a xenon atom and thus stripped the atom of more than two of its highest energy shells.




From the inner to the outer electron ring as follows:
2, 8, 18, 18, 8

Xenon can form superatoms in the form of buckyballs that can be as large as 20,000 atoms.

These clusters could be highly ionized to a positive charge level of close to a million.

Here is how it works in detail.

Multi-photon ionization of xenon cluster results in the generation of few electron–ion pairs within the cluster.
 
The electrons generated on the surface of the cluster escape leaving behind a net positive charge on the cluster, which then acts as a potential barrier for the remaining inner electrons inside the cluster.

As a result, the electrons which have left the parent xenon ion, but cannot leave the cluster (referred as quasi free electrons) are forced to interact with the optical field of the laser pulse. These quasi-free electrons under the influence of Coulomb field within the cluster, keep extracting energy from the laser pulse presumably via inverse Bremsstrahlung (IBS) process, through electron–ion and electron neutral collisions.
 
Once the electron energy exceeds the ionization energy of singly charged ion, secondary ionization by these energetic electrons leading to generation of doubly and triply charged Xe ions can take place.

In spite of increasing energy of the electrons due to IBS process, the electrons are retained within the cluster because of increasing Coulomb potential which arises due to the small but finite escape probability of energetic electrons.

This process of electron energisation and ionization to the next higher charge state of xenon continues until a stage comes when Coulombic repulsive energy overcomes the total cohesive energy of the cluster and the multiply charged cluster violently explodes resulting in formation of multiply charged atomic ions with large kinetic energy.

With a extreme ionization level possible, huge charge separations can be reached before Coulombic repulsive energy overcomes the total cohesive energy of the cluster.
   
 Also see related posts as follows:

The ball and powder model

What role does chlorine play in the Papp reaction?

Quote from FaradayEZ on November 23rd, 2012, 12:09 AM

Quote from Axil on November 22nd, 2012, 08:05 PM

But like the BALL POWDER process, both  the heavy and light components of the process are indispensable to proper operation of the Papp process.

So if this theory holds true for the Pappengine, we should add a small amount of clorine or other heavy negative's to the gas inside the chamber.

I think it also could lengthen the POP. First the Cl bonds, then it returns to lower state and emitts and with that clusters are formed to run against the piston.

On the other hand... what is the power made of in the POP..? And if it is the seize of a potatoe, then should it matter if it has lumps inside it or consists of only smooth puree? Its still the same total mass, that never changed..?

Chlorine/noble gas  produces the most powerful laser effect in the 150 and 173 nm wave length range, were the shorter the wavelength is, the closer the laser is to the soft x-ray range.

Floride/noble gas produces a less powerful laser emination

The wavelength of an excimer laser depends on the molecules used, and is usually in the ultraviolet:

Excimer   /Wavelength         /Relative Power mW

Ar2*   /126 nm   
Kr2*   /146 nm   
Xe2*   /172 & 175 nm   
ArF   /193 nm            /60
KrF   /248 nm           /100
XeBr   /282 nm   
XeCl   /308 nm            /50
XeF   /351 nm            /45
KrCl   /222 nm           / 25
      
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excimer_laser


* Notice that  Ar, Kr, and Xe can produce powerful soft x-ray laser radiation on their own.   
 

http://phys.org/news188458077.html

 This says it all!

 Iron or magnetic electrodes create huge amounts of magnetic particles in the form of crystals. These crystals are a combination of the electrode + the gas particles.

 This is accomplished via superimposition of the magnetic component of the electrodes vaporized with the gas medium. Usually in the amount of 6+2. 6 parts electrode particles and 2 gas particles.

 This is also the reason Russ had a black residue in the hydrogen version. I'm betting the residue is very very magnetic!

 Iron + nitrogen should be the strongest magnetic version but that remains to be tested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3EX0vEfFKU


Boat floats on xenon...

New slide show from Barry Springer: The Revolutionary Plasma Power Technology of Josef Papp

http://www.worldsci.org/pdf/events/Springer-TheRevolutionaryPlasmaPowerTechnologyofJosefPapp.pdf

Quote from Axil on November 24th, 2012, 09:36 PM

New slide show from Barry Springer: The Revolutionary Plasma Power Technology of Josef Papp

http://www.worldsci.org/pdf/events/Springer-TheRevolutionaryPlasmaPowerTechnologyofJosefPapp.pdf

Ha, nice find Axil.

Good to see the things about the engine in a line-up. A recapturing, new to me was the line about it having a 80 to 1 COP.

A document like this could be perfect for accompanying the mail to Dr. T.

No fuss, just the facts.

thx

The k c dias Noble Gas Engine (NGE) (Papp Engine) Controller Circuit released today.

http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=822&pid=9919#pid9919

kcd

I now believe that the Papp engine gets it power from the vacuum. The Papp engine sets up an optimum condition to control and manipulate both attractive and repulsive forces at topological plasmoid surfaces based on engineering of the Casimir force.

To explain how this is done, a special kind of high powered capacitive spark discharge produces a form of plasmoid in the shape of a roiling smoke ring. This plasmoid topology provides a sharply delineated zone of intense electrostatic attraction which in turn provides a hook that the Casimir force latches onto to accelerate the plasmoid through a dielectric.  


To set the stage, noble gases are the most dielectric of gases with a high threshold for ionization. Also note that the gases: Chlorine and Fluorine which promote the excimer laser ionization function of the heavy noble gases are also highly dielectric.


Note…This excimer laser ionization process was used by the original Papp implementation but it is now being replaced(J. Rohner) by RF excitation of the heavy noble gases.


Sorted by 1st Ionization Potential (eV), Name, Sym #

12.130 Xenon       Xe 54
12.967 Chlorine    Cl 17
13.598 Hydrogen  H 1
13.618 Oxygen     O 8
13.999 Krypton     Kr 36
14.534 Nitrogen    N 7
15.759 Argon        Ar 18
17.422 Fluorine     F 9
21.564 Neon         Ne 10
24.587 Helium       He 2

The bow shock of the plasmoid does not respond with an equal and opposite force because of a conflict between Newton’s classical First Law of Motion with the quantum theory based on the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principal.

Ultimately, it is the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principal where the over unity energy production comes from.

The Heisenberg Principal states that highly fixed quantum objects must exhibit a proportionally high degree of random momentum and amplified energy levels.

The plasmoid provide a sharp boundary between highly ionized and neutral noble gases.

The high degree of bow shock electron fixedness of the plasmoids electrons skin results in a high degree of random response of those same electrons to all forces, including both body and surface forces.

The negatively charged tightly constrained electron layer on the leading edge of the plasmoid bow shock pulls strongly towards the positively charged neutral matter dielectric layer by the Casimir Force.


Self-perpetuating and ever amplifing counter rotating positive and negative electric currents in the plasmoid are self-maintained by complimentary magnetic forces induced by those same electric currents. So in the timeframe of the Papp reaction, the plasmoid becomes a permanent electromagnetic structure.


The plasmoid electron skin increases in energy density as the pressure of acceleration generates an increasing response in the magnitude of randomized electron momentum, instead of the expected simple momentum increase proportional to the attractive Casimir force.

 
The increasingly randomized momentum of the bow shock electrons collectively forms a very thin and highly constrained randomized momentum Heisenberg Uncertainty Surface (HUS) that forms a randomized momentum Heisenberg Uncertainty Volume (HUV) confining the plasmoid.

Randomized forces exerted on the bow shock electrons of the HUS and the HUV constrained by the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principal cannot respond in kind as an equal and opposite force and so conflict directly with Newton’s laws of motion. But no new science is required, only the realization that Newton’s Laws are the special case, not the general, as they are with relativity.

Like a horse pulling a cart, the bow shock electrons pulls along heavily positively ionized  currents of Xenon and Krypton crystals produced by an initial burst of soft X-rays during the plasmoid formation process. These large numbers of heavy noble gas crystals can be composed of over 20,000 atoms, each in the form of a ball.

The plasmoid is like an ever accelerating heavy ball shot out of a rail gun.  

The kinetic energy that the plasmoid has developed through its transit into the dielectric boundary gases are imparted to the surface of the piston when the ensemble of heavy noble gas crystals impacts the piston surface face. These very large heavy noble gas crystals are the primary force carriers of the Papp reaction


Cross posted on vortex



 

Quote from Axil on November 25th, 2012, 11:34 PM

To explain how this is done, a special kind of high powered capacitive spark discharge produces a form of plasmoid in the shape of a roiling smoke ring.

I wonder if the geometry  of the piston head in Russ' popper is helping to form this smoke ring shape.

Quote from Axil on November 25th, 2012, 11:34 PM

I now believe that the Papp engine gets it power from the vacuum. The Papp engine sets up an optimum condition to control and manipulate both attractive and repulsive forces at topological plasmoid surfaces based on engineering of the Casimir force..................

Hey Axil! I like your theory. I'm still doing some research but it makes sense. It sounds like it's a Plasmic Scalar Blast acting against the piston. Could the smoke ring (torioid) effect you're describing inherit scalar properties? Either way i'd like to see a completed engine or a measurement proving that there is more energy out than in. Hope everyone had a good Thanksgiving!

vr,

Ken

Quote from Axil on November 25th, 2012, 11:34 PM

I now believe that the Papp engine gets it power from the vacuum. The Papp engine sets up an optimum condition to control and manipulate both attractive and repulsive forces at topological plasmoid surfaces based on engineering of the Casimir force.

To explain how this is done, a special kind of high powered capacitive spark discharge produces a form of plasmoid in the shape of a roiling smoke ring. This plasmoid topology provides a sharply delineated zone of intense electrostatic attraction which in turn provides a hook that the Casimir force latches onto to accelerate the plasmoid through a dielectric.  


To set the stage, noble gases are the most dielectric of gases with a high threshold for ionization. Also note that the gases: Chlorine and Fluorine which promote the excimer laser ionization function of the heavy noble gases are also highly dielectric.


Note…This excimer laser ionization process was used by the original Papp implementation but it is now being replaced(J. Rohner) by RF excitation of the heavy noble gases.


Sorted by 1st Ionization Potential (eV), Name, Sym #

12.130 Xenon       Xe 54
12.967 Chlorine    Cl 17
13.598 Hydrogen  H 1
13.618 Oxygen     O 8
13.999 Krypton     Kr 36
14.534 Nitrogen    N 7
15.759 Argon        Ar 18
17.422 Fluorine     F 9
21.564 Neon         Ne 10
24.587 Helium       He 2

The bow shock of the plasmoid does not respond with an equal and opposite force because of a conflict between Newton’s classical First Law of Motion with the quantum theory based on the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principal.

Ultimately, it is the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principal where the over unity energy production comes from.

The Heisenberg Principal states that highly fixed quantum objects must exhibit a proportionally high degree of random momentum and amplified energy levels.

The plasmoid provide a sharp boundary between highly ionized and neutral noble gases.

The high degree of bow shock electron fixedness of the plasmoids electrons skin results in a high degree of random response of those same electrons to all forces, including both body and surface forces.

The negatively charged tightly constrained electron layer on the leading edge of the plasmoid bow shock pulls strongly towards the positively charged neutral matter dielectric layer by the Casimir Force.


Self-perpetuating and ever amplifing counter rotating positive and negative electric currents in the plasmoid are self-maintained by complimentary magnetic forces induced by those same electric currents. So in the timeframe of the Papp reaction, the plasmoid becomes a permanent electromagnetic structure.


The plasmoid electron skin increases in energy density as the pressure of acceleration generates an increasing response in the magnitude of randomized electron momentum, instead of the expected simple momentum increase proportional to the attractive Casimir force.

 
The increasingly randomized momentum of the bow shock electrons collectively forms a very thin and highly constrained randomized momentum Heisenberg Uncertainty Surface (HUS) that forms a randomized momentum Heisenberg Uncertainty Volume (HUV) confining the plasmoid.

Randomized forces exerted on the bow shock electrons of the HUS and the HUV constrained by the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principal cannot respond in kind as an equal and opposite force and so conflict directly with Newton’s laws of motion. But no new science is required, only the realization that Newton’s Laws are the special case, not the general, as they are with relativity.

Like a horse pulling a cart, the bow shock electrons pulls along heavily positively ionized  currents of Xenon and Krypton crystals produced by an initial burst of soft X-rays during the plasmoid formation process. These large numbers of heavy noble gas crystals can be composed of over 20,000 atoms, each in the form of a ball.

The plasmoid is like an ever accelerating heavy ball shot out of a rail gun.  

The kinetic energy that the plasmoid has developed through its transit into the dielectric boundary gases are imparted to the surface of the piston when the ensemble of heavy noble gas crystals impacts the piston surface face. These very large heavy noble gas crystals are the primary force carriers of the Papp reaction

Cross posted on vortex

Good stuff Alix, I think you may have described what Telsla had coined as,
Aetheral vortical objects. ball lightning. a smoke ring, having a rigid body.

Thanks Alix, and all for being the # one forum on the net.
What am i thankful for, Life.;)

Were all with you on that freethisone.:D

This is what a Field Reversed Configuration (FRC) plasmoid looks and acts  like.

I beleive that this is what the papp engine produces.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrgTtZXuj4w&feature=endscreen

The following is a suggested improvement to the Papp engine.

A Field Reversed Configuration (FRC) plasmoid consists of a closed field line, fully ionized plasma confined by a large azimuthal self-current. It is a ring shaped structure that move forward in a face on attitude. This plasma diamagnetic current flows opposite to the coil currents producing the external axial magnetic field.

Typically FRC plasmoids are formed in a cylindrical coil with a fast (< 10 μs), and large (100’s kA) pulsed inductive discharge resulting in a stable, well-confined plasmoid that is neutral to translation. A simple conical coil can then be employed to produce the magnetic gradient desired to produce plasmoid movement.


Typically this demands a very rapid and large flux change in order to generate a sufficiently large induced current. This method thus inherently requires a high voltage pulse power system for operation.

Bob Rohner uses such a large pulse power system to drive his plasmoid generation.

In replicating Bob’s work, Russ has done the same thing.

Propitiously for those who want to produce the ringed plasmoid using less power, there is another method for the generation of the FRC that does not rely on inductive techniques. The same azimuthal currents can be caused to arise without the rapid magnetic flux change of pulsed induction by employing a Rotating Magnetic Field (RMF) where the rotating field lines lie in a plane transverse to the axis in a cylindrical geometry.

Reference:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Ferps.spacegrant.org%2Fuploads%2Fimages%2Fimages%2Fiepc_articledownload_1988-2007%2F2009index%2FIEPC-2009-265.pdf&ei=g661ULmwFpCE0QHr34G4Ag&usg=AFQjCNEPNh6BWQKySL4cz_NcCEgd6EO4aA&sig2=qgWKZIDstzRRuf8-5xMwDw

[attachment=2637]

You can find the antenna layout to do this on page 5 of this reference.

The circuit that drives the RF antenna is found on page 16.

What is different between the The Electrodeless Lorentz Force (ELF) thruster and the Papp engine? The big difference is that the thruster was only tested against the following gases. Nitrogen, Air, Oxygen, and Xenon.

The noble gas mix will do wonders for the ELF thruster.

When we perfect the Papp reaction, the Papp technology can be easily transferred to the ELF thruster design with a performance improvement of a few hundred times.

For those who like to read patents, see

http://www.google.com/patents/US20120031070?pg=PA21&dq=Pulsed+Plasmoid+Propulsion:+The+ELF+Thruster&hl=en&sa=X&ei=zq21UICxJo7O0QH3y4HABw&ved=0CDcQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Pulsed%20Plasmoid%20Propulsion%3A%20The%20ELF%20Thruster&f=false

[attachment=2636]

There is some additional info in the patent.

The Papp engine and the ELF thruster are very close as systems go.

Axil, thanks for your great posts, but your explanations generate more questions for this old country boy.
Your prior explanation of the "Pop" described a shock wave led by a cluster of electrons primarily traveling down the center of the cylinder as this was the low resistance discharge path. This makes total sense so I'm aboard with that.

Now you describe the toroid that develops creating a static charge, this also makes sense and would seem to be the slower moving plasmoid material more around the edges with the hot electron flow down the middle. Hope I got this right.

My big question is where is the Casimir force developing between? I thought Casimir forces were forces developed between close plates. As there are no close plates, I'm having trouble seeing where the Casimir force is coming from. Are you suggesting that the "Pop" forms particles like Rydberg structures and that the Casimir forces are developed between these particles at the atomic level.

Everyone seems to talk about the energizing, expansion phase, the collapse is just as mysterious to me, but its hardly discussed as to the actual events. Any opinion or clarification on this subject. Again, thanks for your great posts.

That's:D cool.

I would like to see a schematic, where is it posted?:huh:
Boots-2b1

Bob has a point, the Casimir Force was discovered and measured highest at a spacing of 10 nanometers and between uncharged metallic plates. You're saying that ionized noble gases are dialectric and therefore are compatible with the theory even though they are highly charged?

The smoke ring of highly ionized gases makes sense and if the Casimir Force is a possible accelerator generating a resultant kinetic force against the piston, is that all that's happening? I think the magnetic field of the toroid (smoke ring) as it moves toward the piston compresses the ionized gas in the center of the ring and creates a magnetic ring compressor. The ionized gas being squeased would create a wave of pressure in front of the ring as it accelerates down the chamber, thus creating a plasma rail gun/accelerator effect. This would explain why Russ has to pre-ionize the gas before he can get a good pop. Wouldn't it work better if the electrodes were placed in a parabolic cup, the piston surface was a parabolic bowl, and distance between the starting position of the piston were increased to get more time of an acceleration? Thanks for the posts. They really inspire thinking.

Ken

Quote from Boots-2b1 on November 28th, 2012, 09:06 PM

I would like to see a schematic, where is it posted?:huh:
Boots-2b1

what are you looking for? i did respond to a schematic request 1 page back.

http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=659&pid=9814#pid9814

??

~Russ

Quote from klebrun on November 28th, 2012, 11:19 PM

Bob has a point, the Casimir Force was discovered and measured highest at a spacing of 10 nanometers and between uncharged metallic plates. You're saying that ionized noble gases are dialectric and therefore are compatible with the theory even though they are highly charged?

The smoke ring of highly ionized gases makes sense and if the Casimir Force is a possible accelerator generating a resultant kinetic force against the piston, is that all that's happening? I think the magnetic field of the toroid (smoke ring) as it moves toward the piston compresses the ionized gas in the center of the ring and creates a magnetic ring compressor. The ionized gas being squeased would create a wave of pressure in front of the ring as it accelerates down the chamber, thus creating a plasma rail gun/accelerator effect. This would explain why Russ has to pre-ionize the gas before he can get a good pop. Wouldn't it work better if the electrodes were placed in a parabolic cup, the piston surface was a parabolic bowl, and distance between the starting position of the piston were increased to get more time of an acceleration? Thanks for the posts. They really inspire thinking.

Ken

Here are some properties of the plasmoid that bear upon the acceleration question.

There is a threshold of energy where a plasmoid is formed. This energy is directly proportional to the frequency of its electron cloud.

Below a critical frequency, determined by its size, a plasmoid represents a plasma state at a local energy maximum, i.e. it is unstable. In addition, electrons are unable to carry the current below this critical frequency.

Above the critical frequency, the physics becomes more interesting, as the current is carried by the electrons and the plasma is at an energy minimum, even though its total energy is positive.

Shock waves in gas occur when the energy in the system is below that required to establish a plasmoid.

A spherical plasmoid is a toroid with a very small central cavity. I believe that the toroid holds more energy than the spherical plasmoid but I am not certain of this.

The plasmoid can be thought of as an electromagnetic black hole. It is a bubble of electromagnetic radiation that is cut-off from the remainder of space. This is why a plasmoid will accelerate when acted upon by the Casimir force.

The negative charge layer on the outside surface of the plasmoid forces all emf radiation inward (normal) toward the center of the plasmoid.

Because the plasmoid lasts a long time, it does not radiate the energy that it stores. The plasmoid is like a capacitor that holds vast amounts of energy.

Large amounts of power, 800 joules in our case, are concentrated into a volume that is only a few centimeters in diameter.

The interior of the plasmoid is disconnected from the EMF fields outside the plasmoid by the large negative charge localized on its outer skin.

The plasmoid will convert energy perturbations that occur immediately outside its boundaries and around it to increases in its stores of power.

Puthoff has suggested that by introducing the zero-point-field (ZPF) into this energy transfer process, the great electromagnetic stability that the plasmoid demonstrates may be greatly enhanced.

Conducting systems will experience a net outside pressure, analogous to the Casimir force, due to the exclusion of ZPF frequencies from the center of the plasmoid.

The more kinetic energy that the plasmoid stores in its interior, the smaller it gets and the more charge is concentrated on its outer surface to contain that energy. The more conducting the negatively charged surface, the higher the frequencies on the outer surface grows, the more ZPF modes will be excluded from the interior and the higher the vacuum pressure differential.

The plasmoid does, in fact, demonstrate high EMF stability that implies radiation free stability.

Additionally, the energy to stabilize these non-radiating EMF plasmoid modes might be available from the higher frequencies in the ZPF, once the plasmoid has been formed.

If the above theory is to be believed, The ZPF may play an important role in stabilizing non-radiating modes in the plasmoid and if the process is one that demonstrates positive feedback, the plasmoid may also demonstrated energy gain.

Detailed calculations would have to be done to determine critical densities of charge versus size and frequency for all the quantities to come together exactly right.

Further research would investigate how to inject additional charge into already-formed modes, and have them stabilized by higher frequencies that come from directed sources, or are present in the ZPF.

A final point relates to the initial construction of non-radiating EMF modes. If these modes are stable, why are they not a common phenomenon? Actually, they might be quite common in Nature, but with short lifetimes and low energies.

They also might be very small, existing only on the nano-level and hard to detect. Considering that the most logical place to look for charged, high-frequency non-radiating modes would be in powerful electrical discharges, such as found in lightning strokes, the surrounding phenomena might mask their occurrence.

In the laboratory, strong microwave or laser (perhaps accompanied with D.C.) discharges, with possible extra-electron injection, might be conducive to non-radiative-mode production.

Discharges in highly-ionizable dielectric gas mixtures such as cesium or Penning noble gas mixtures, under the above conditions may enhance the effect.

In any case, detailed calculations and experiments might have to be done to determine optimal conditions such as discharge field strengths, gas density, frequency, electrode size, pre-ionization etc.

The investigation of non-radiative-mode effects may be very fruitful in the future.

For example: Rigid non-radiative composite "super-atomic particles" containing large numbers of fusible ions may be compressible in strong quadrupole fields without undergoing chaotic turbulence-like instabilities, and have lifetimes consistent with producing copious LENR  reactions.

Plasma focus devices have produced enough energy confinment and have demonstrated that thermonuclear fusion will occur if enough energy is feed into the plasmoid.