During investigation of Stanley Meyers patents, I found a nice drawing of the voltage potentials. Furthermore I think Stanley Meyer also had "problems" with hot water. The patent is no. "US4798661-Gas_Generator_Voltage_Control_Circuit".

In the patent he descriped the usage of the two plate WFC (adjustable gap distance). He wrote about arcing in the gap and about the voltage potentials. Also I believe, that he had the same temperature problems like we have with high voltage and water.
Of course arcing produces a lot of heat. But if it is possible to generate some energy out of the "waterarc" we can use this for other devices.

Did someone try to crack watersteam? Is this process like in normal electrolyses?

The characteristics of the voltage to amp chart, seems similar to one of a neon light  or other gas discharge. At a certain threshold voltage, the voltage measured on the neon light or other devices with a negative differential resistance breaks down to a certain point. Stans chart, show us, that this also in WFC possible. He installed some things to halt the breakdown point. So because inline Resistors only waste heat, the breakdown point happend again, when he add more voltage.
At my tests some years ago, the same happend during putting on high voltage on a tube WFC. At a certain point the voltage drops a litte bit (gas discharge on the kathode) and the current start to fall. So I could replicate the diagramm above of Stanley Meyer, unfortunattely I did not recognize, that this can be the key to the WFC secret. Because the water was very hot, I thought, that is not the path to the secret. Meanwhile I understand, that only his demostration cell (alternator cell) keeped cool to the touch. The hot water furnace above in the drawing, is in a patent later than the demo cell. The hot water was still a "problem". Therefore the gas processor turned the steam into the hydrogen.
More to come....

Im building and have been replicating Stans work for some time. Now just starting to figure it all out. My Openion is that the key to this tech lies in the EPG...I need to print my shims or figure out some place to get them so I can start winding this thing but I believe that Stans VIC as its called is the EPG or Gas core transformer. What makes me think this is that stans first patent was in canada for the EPG in 1982 and all other water fuel cell related patents came after that and stan did not patent in the US until later. If you look at the swiss lecture on the EPG at the end he stats when you hook the EPG up to a water fuel cell theres nothing you cant do was his exzact words.....I will know soon enough Im getting close to being complete. As I also have observed in my experiments with the EEC athat it has plenty of potentual to run the gas processers and some other things. Check out this video of me closing the loop 

Closingthe loop

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLtgqf-eM3Q#

my theory was that if im pulling electrons out of the bath then there should be more gas production because the there would not be so many free electrons moving about for the H and O atoms to use to link back up so the more electricity you pull out the more gas you make 2 for 1 yea!!! but its only a theory because im only just now getting all my cells isolated and contained to make any real measurements

but now that im learning about fusion things are getting more interesting. Cause if you slowly heat the water to 107F then crank it up the amps drop way off but this is with electrolyte but the gas generation is amazing...so my views are always changing as I learn but man its fun and I love it

hy breakzeitgeist,

can you explain a littel bit of you work and the proceeding steps?
At which peak voltage do you get the plasma? Is it possible to "collect" electrons without plasma?

When I did this test, I always had the problem with very hot water, regardless of pulsing or inline resistors etc....
Also I need some soda, to create more conductivity in the waterbath, so the plasma was easier to built.

I was surprised, when I tried the same test, with two tubes instead of a welding kathode. Nearly the same happend like with the welding kathode. First there is a lot more current flowing, but after reaching a certain point of temperature and voltage, the current breaks down to a small value. When rising the voltage higher, the current even then breaks down further. This characteristics show a negative differential resistance of water. It is like neon tubes when the ignition voltage (>1000V) hits the gas and it will be ionized.
 
At the WFC, first the amps grow with the rising voltage, at a certain threshold voltage, the amps go down.
The interessting think was after turning down the voltage of the water bath and opening up the circuit breaker, I touched the cables of the tubes unintended. I got an electric shock only by touching the open circuit of the WFC. By the way, the tubes still were creating steam and hydrogen.
It seems to me, that when the process heats up and I stayed at the threshold for plasma/current breakdown, it generates free electrons. My hand was the consumer. :)
Do you know about the kathodic fall? In this process nearly all voltage drops at the hydrogengas at the kathode. This will ionize the hydrogenatoms into protons and you get free electrons. Stan always drawed the smiling free elctrons ;) However it is not 100% accurate, but Stan was right, when he drawed the electrons flying away. So in the region of negative conductive zone (cathode), only protons are left. A single proton is the most reactive element of all.
However in school we learned about ionization of elements. Stan clearly show us with this drawing, that he was ionizing inside the water bath!
The amount of gas production in this state is very high. Also the amount of steam. High energized steam can be formed to hydrogen with less energy input than "normal" liquid electrolyses. I think, he tried to go into this state of plasma/current breakdown and called it "resonance". Further to use the steam he created the hydrogen gas gun. This all can be done with very small energy input.

Further I think Stan tried with the LED Lights to gain the plasma state and create even more free electrons. In his words of the attachment: Photon energy aids resonant action. Resonant action refer to the state of the process, not to the electric components.
 Why free electrons? Free electrons in the water bath can do electrolyses without an ouside voltage. This happens when the H3O and OH molecules take/give an electron. Free electrons will bond to the H3O (which is inside an electrolyt) forming H and H2O. So are free electrons the key? Maybe I think. It looks like, Stan tried to create as much free electrons as possible (high voltage and laser light is a typical application for such free electrons. A neon bulb also works with free electrons and recombination of them.
Using the free electrons to supply other devices like the gas gun.

So if we can create something like a plasma inside the WFC, the amount of free electrons will rise.
The electrons will be collected at the positive conductive region (anode). That is very important, because this will generate a real capacitor! Stan called it electron deflection (Attachment).
If we turn off the pulsing you have many collected electrons on one side of the WFC. The WFC is loaded like a capacitor and because the outer voltage is turned off, the capacitor will discharge (on my hand :) or) on the water creating hydrogen.

Well Done Amsy, I like the depictions and the integrations. Temperature of the water inlets weighs in as a factor with control aspects. Water molecular bond displacements may be further enhanced by micro capillary and Cavitation domains. The Laser should be IR as Coherence modifier as well as energy contributor directly in the absorption band. Sound and Bell harmonic inducement may also be considered as a Prime mover to the molecular dynamics as well as Electric/Dielectric modality you present. With electron mobility and kinetic causality as the threshold temperatures increase some aspects of the dynamics can be optimized for balanced operation. (Not to Hot) still thermal runnaway to prevent when its working to good! Just saying... Just a few thoughts on this as a newbie here. As of about ten minutes ago. Greetings Scott C. Independent Research  FLR NY   :roll: Oops, Read your post before seeing the IR already on Video! I was just browsing the latest post. Scott

Amsy, that is exactly what i have been learning. The temp needs to be 107 degrees F that is the sweet spot. Then at that point, you can trow what ever you have at it without high amp draw......Voltage leads the way and im talking about norm electrolysis with chemical in the water. OK, so what else is interesting is that Stan used just just water without additives. This is how I learned to do it before going to this better known electrolosis method. Stans basic circuit is really cool the way it produce gas and does it great using the resistive properties normally found in water, so no chem needed and it stays cool below 107....So now im thinking thats what the Steam Resinator was for to heat water up in secounds. ..........I got to try this real quick....I will try and explaine better in my next post. Im about to try something.......   Also, I got a car to experiment with today. It is a 91 Buick Regal. 3.2 multi port fuel injected.....Lets make it run on water.......Open to any ideas. I will post a vid of it in a few min.

thank you guys!

In my tests (pure tap water), the temperature was rising higher, because of my little water basin and the lack of ions in it. At around 140°F up to 176°F the reaction starts so I could turn up the voltage without current rise. At this point, I think the ionization at the cathode (- region) starts. So I see you have a plate cell, which distance does have the gaps between the plates?

Quote

Voltage leads the way and im talking about norm electrolysis with chemical in the water. OK, so what else is interesting is that Stan used just just water without additives.

Yes, he was using natural water. In fact natural water is hard to "crack" because there only a few ions in it. It works better with some soda or NaOH or something like that (I tried this several times). The sweet spot can be reached earlier with some chemicals inside.
Sometimes I tried clear deionized water, it was nearly impossible to hit the sweet spot. So I think for an early (and efficient regime) sweet spot we need more ions in the water bath. This disagrees to meyers statement that clear water works better, but he never said a word about the temperature. (Of course the starting current is much higher with chemicals inside). Because I think it also works with deionized water, but the temperature has to be higher. Anyway, it works also with tap water, depending on the temperature. (a little bit of chemicals don´t bother me :) ). 

During the ionization process, the free electrons are pulled to the anode. (+ region). As more voltage pulses hit the WFC, as more electrons are pulled to the anode during ionization. At the same time we are producing a high reactive gas with small current draw. I think there is a lot of atomic hydrogen inside the gas.

Every voltage puls which hits the WFC, gains more electrons to the anode. At the cathode we will have a lack of electrons. When switching the pulstrain off, this ratio of electrons is still there and so the WFC builds up a capacitor. This capacitor will discharge immediately on the water itself. (attachment step charge). In the diagramm clearly can be seen, that the voltage discharges like a capacitor when turning off the pulstrain. This discharge can be used for other devices or for the waterbath itself.

Stan wrote about a generated voltage up to 20kV inside the WFC. I think this was not created by the VIC itself. This was created inside the WFC because of high ionization and therefor a high accumulation of electrons at the anode (ratio of electrons regarding anode and cathode). Of course a higher voltage generated by the VIC reinforce the creation of free electrons. (In other WO international patents he wrote about 650V or something like that, generated by the VIC).

The ionization it self can generate very high voltages. This is caused of an avalanche effect which create much more free electrons.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_avalanche

So the basic IMHO is, that we need this sweet spot first (Stan called this spot "Resonant Action" in his memos). The right voltage and temperature must be reached. In the second stage we can fo further turning up the voltage to a higher level, at the same time the current draw will go down. After generating as much free electrons as possible, we can turn off the pulsing and watch the water bath or measure it´s DC voltage. :)

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dielectric_breakdown this diagramm shows, where we are processing during the voltage raise.



So in zone 1 the WFC acts as a electrolyser. After zone1 we can rise the voltage up, without increasing of the current ("Resonant Action"). We should not go futher to zone3, because this will generate strong arcing between the plates and the amps grow expentionally! By reading his memos, he tried during "Resonant Action" to vary the pulsing frequency form a resonant circuit between the first Choke and the (now existing) capacity. But thats an other site. First I think it is important to reach the so calles "Resonant Action" state.

I think the end of zone1 is our sweet spot, where the phenomenon of amp restriction begins dramatically. We can turn up the voltage more and the amps will still be the same (or go further down a little bit). This region is our "working region" for high ionization and generating a lot of free electrons. In my test I reached the sweet spoat around 110V DC. When working at 110V DC for a while, it is possible to turn down the voltage to 80V or something like that, depending on the temperature.

Maybe someone say, this is not Stanley Meyer style, but it all accords to the patents and the diagramms of Stanley Meyer. And we saw in the diagramms, that one goal was, to generate free (smiling :D ) electrons and deflect them to the anode (drawing). So here we are! ;)

I found something, that can illustrate the ionization (for better understanding):

From:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Townsend_discharge



So we see the lack of electrons on the cathode and the high amount of electrons on the anode. This will create a difference of load (=voltage) like in a capacitor!

Reading again the patents and memos of Stan, we have clearly to understand, that "Resonant Action" and resonant frequency are completely different things. The "Resonant Action" is the pre-condition inside the WFC which has to be achived, after that he minimized the current even more by hitting the system in the right resonant frequency.
I think we could imagine this like a neon tube. First we need to ionize the gas/water ("Resonant action") and then we can drive it with minimal current by finding the right frequency. Modern neon tube´s electric circuit also have resonant transformers inside:



Gues what.... today at this high accurate tuned resonance circuits, there could be a problem when the inductivity of the neon tube varies too much. Therefore the inductivity has to be adjusted by an variable coil! ( :idea:).
We know Stan used a variable Choke, to adjust the inductivity.

But without the "Resonant Action" first there is no chance to generate hydrogen with that circuit and minimal current. So which circuit will be the best, which can achieve both? First we need at least around 110V DC (??) and some amps (depending of the size of the WFC), than we need something like a resonant transformer shown above which can do the ionization only with voltage.....
Was the VIC able to do both? Only driven by different frequency and different duty cycles?

The ionization only with voltage can generate (like shown in the posting above) a remarkable amount of liberated electrons.

-----

WOW>>>>>>>>look familiar  Voltage-current characteristics of electrical discharge in neon at 1 torr, with two planar electrodes separated by 50 cm.
A: random pulses by cosmic radiation
B: saturation current
C: avalanche Townsend discharge
D:SELF-SUSTAINED Townsend discharge
E: unstable region: corona discharge
F: sub-normal glow discharge
G: normal glow discharge
H: abnormal glow discharge
I: unstable region: glow-arc transition
J: electric arc
K: electric arc
A-D region: dark discharge; ionization occurs, current below 10 microamps.
F-H region: glow discharge; the plasma emits a faint glow.
I-K region: arc discharge; larges amounts of radiation produced.

Things are coming together Have a look at this WHATS MINE IS YOURS

FLOW
So this is my first mini cell I made on the lathe...the cap holds center electrode and I drilled holes in bottom of cap. checking out the flow dynamics in the vid....So I need shims for the epg and have no idea yet how to do it myself in CAD.Can anyone draw it up so i can print on 3D printer... I am about to load more vids and go over what I have to work with and want help from anyone who can help me tell me what you think I should do to get car converted. I follow instructions well. So we talk about it and I will do it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQEz8KyWuNE#ws

yeah, discharges are good documented and investigated. Indeed a WFC isn´t a gas tube for 100%, but on the electrodes, there is a gas athmosphere during operation. On the cathode (where the electrons emit) we have hydrogen and on the anode we have oxygen. Between the electrodes and the gas athmospheres we have water.
By turning up the voltage we not only produce hydrogen on the cathode but also ionize it immediately. This can cause this townsend avalanche or other discharges you described above forming free electrons. But this only works, if the temperature of the cathode is high enough and the voltage is high enough. Then we have some kind of gas tube and can apply the diagramms shown above. Such an electron avalanche also can be done only with voltage. Modern gas tubes are working with around 30-40kHz and very high voltage to ionize the gas. So what is not happening in a gas tube is, that the process turn water into hydrogen or oxygen. This can be done in the WFC ;-)

Quote

A-D region: dark discharge; ionization occurs, current below 10 microamps.

That is the sweetspot we need to hit. Of course we have to sustain the hydrogen athmosphere on the cathode, this need some current. But when the region D is achieved, the ionisation accurs itself and give us the free electrons. The input current will go down!
At the CRF/Lenr methode they always use tungston cathodes and light up a little fire under water. But I think this is not necessary at all. 1. The tungston cathode will be consumed, 2. The temperature goes very high (>100°C). But there is a sweet spot before this fire under water will happen, where the amps go down.
In my test with a stainless steel tube WFC (2 years ago), the current drop down from ~10A to 2A!! That was an amazing cutback of wattage. First I need around 2000W (200V, 10A) to reach this sweet spot, but after all it drops down to 400-500W having the same gas/steam output. But there was no corona light or other arc visible.


 

AWESOME thank you so much for all the input. I am learning lots.....you know primer fields? Im putting these in a vaccum any ideas how to power or what kind of supply....car coil?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tv3kuNUvv4A#ws

@Breakzeitgeist
that´s an impressive laboratory with interesting experiments!

@all
what a pity that there is no corporate effort to work as a team on a defined subject with decentralized ressources.

let´s take the last prototype with the 2 bifilar wound coils taking too much current as an example:
to share competence there should be a separate thread describing electrical details, goal to be reached and components used (circuit diagram etc.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sss-hS-0Jxc#ws

I think that's a good idea. Lets do it...I am just trying to share what i know and show you what I have to work with so you can help me keep moving forward. There is so much I don't know. I need all the help I can get. Im in constant study and learning but its hard for me to explain what is in my head. At the end of the day I am having fun and trying to learn all I can but I just go with the flow and let my intuition guide me. I'm a normal average person that is self taught so if I succeed then anyone can. I continue to find though that most complex things have a simple solution that is intuitive...anyways I'm a fast learner and open to what ever you think will work....I just need some direction some times. My mind is wide open:-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnHTtpPvsTQ#ws

this is very important. has to do with air charge. cold, or hot..

Awesome

variable

include this to a tesla hairpin, advancment.  include a box to shield rf, or a screen. include a pancake coil to the hairpin.  door caps are out the door when you can tune like this..

cheers :P