heres a few bits about ferro fluid ive dug up, im guessing you'd need 300-500 ml, over here its £170 for 500ml and £240 for 1000ml.

http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2011/04/timelapse-of-ferrous-toner-particles.html  - particles from toner

http://www.popsci.com/diy/article/2009-09/making-ferrofluids-work-you - Various ferrofluid recipies

http://www.gdiy.com/projects/liquid-magnets-ferrofluid/index.php   - Tried and tested ferrofluid recipie

Ok I had some time to sit and think about the Mechanical Pump and the eletromagnetic (DC) driven coils that are; according to Russ 180 Degrees out of phase which I would assume that is oscillating the magnatized ionized gas back and forth creating a moving magnetic field upon the wrapped generator coils creating an output of electricity waveform based on the input waveform and Stan witnessed that input signal matched the output signal waveform. Now lets get to the wierd unknown heat sinc component that is un-identified. It is obvious it is powered by AC input, it is also obvious from the other setups that he was just trying to move gas and oscillating it with DC waveform, well what could he try next for experimenting with this found phenomenon of the matching input/output waveform?...He needed to try to oscillate the magnetic gas with an AC waveform, which we know would also oscillate the magnetic gas. So my guess of this mystery component it is just a heat sync around a large coil AC (most likely adjustable in frequency )  that is alternating the magnetic field to oscillate the magnetic enclosed gas and because its AC; it will get hot unlike pulsed DC which we can keep cool based on the pulsed frequency, in turn inputing AC resulting in an output of an AC waveform in the alternator coils. According to the patent he proved that whatever waveform you input this thing with it also outputs the same waveform from the generating/alternating coils. So there you have his generator/alternator and multiple waveforms that he alleged in his patents based on his components and experiments of lab tests.

Quote from MAllen7424 on May 16th, 2011, 06:13 AM

Ok I had some time to sit and think about the Mechanical Pump and the eletromagnetic (DC) driven coils that are; according to Russ 180 Degrees out of phase which I would assume that is oscillating the magnatized ionized gas back and forth creating a moving magnetic field upon the wrapped generator coils creating an output of electricity waveform based on the input waveform and Stan witnessed that input signal matched the output signal waveform. Now lets get to the wierd unknown heat sinc component that is un-identified. It is obvious it is powered by AC input, it is also obvious from the other setups that he was just trying to move gas and oscillating it with DC waveform, well what could he try next for experimenting with this found phenomenon of the matching input/output waveform?...He needed to try to oscillate the magnetic gas with an AC waveform, which we know would also oscillate the magnetic gas. So my guess of this mystery component it is just a heat sync around a large coil AC (most likely adjustable in frequency )  that is alternating the magnetic field to oscillate the magnetic enclosed gas and because its AC; it will get hot unlike pulsed DC which we can keep cool based on the pulsed frequency, in turn inputing AC resulting in an output of an AC waveform in the alternator coils. According to the patent he proved that whatever waveform you input this thing with it also outputs the same waveform from the generating/alternating coils. So there you have his generator/alternator and multiple waveforms that he alleged in his patents based on his components and experiments of lab tests.

Some good thoughts! I can see this to be true! Makes sense!  Good thoughts!

Now... Where can I get one? What is it out of? What's the brand? Intresting answers that need answers!

Thanks! ~Russ    

Quote from Rwg42985 on May 16th, 2011, 07:49 AM

Now... Where can I get one? What is it out of? What's the brand? Intresting answers that need answers!

Thanks! ~Russ

To tell you the truth Russ it looks almost home-made!

Quote from MAllen7424 on May 16th, 2011, 08:36 AM

Quote from Rwg42985 on May 16th, 2011, 07:49 AM

Now... Where can I get one? What is it out of? What's the brand? Intresting answers that need answers!

Thanks! ~Russ

To tell you the truth Russ it looks almost home-made!

It would not dought me at all...

The only thing that Leeds me to believe it was not home maid is the Pices look stamped out and pressed out... It would take alot of money to make a stamping die to make just a couple of parts...

Look at the ridges in the end Pices... That looks like somthing you would find in somthing mass produced...

What do you think?

Thanks! ~Russ
 

Quote from Rwg42985 on May 16th, 2011, 10:14 AM

It would not dought me at all...

The only thing that Leeds me to believe it was not home maid is the Pices look stamped out and pressed out... It would take alot of money to make a stamping die to make just a couple of parts...

Look at the ridges in the end Pices... That looks like somthing you would find in somthing mass produced...

What do you think?

Thanks! ~Russ

Well I would say the fins were manuactured commercially, it is definately not aluminum based on the rainbowish color of the metal, but I do see a flaw in one of the bolts being longer than the others the sqaure looks like square-stock of the same possible metal, it almost reminds me of a Current sensing transformer, obviously not used for that, maybe inside he could be using a similiar toroidal coil around the diameter of the Copper pipe inside. Otherwise I have no clue what is inside or if it was custom made or something commercially manufactured.

russ, i think the red stuff you think may be an insulator on the EPG is actually some kind of goo to hold the pipes together to make winding the secondarys easier. I'd planned to run a bead of silicone or epoxy round the joins just so i can get it out of the jig in one piece.
the spilt ferro fluid may have caused the corrosion because they use an acid to coat the iron particles, the acid could have accelerated the corrosion. wouldnt worry about the inside too much because if you bleed all the air out there will be no oxygen in there for the oxidation process. ive changed my my mind about the heatsink device, its not a compressor pump, after seeing these much better pics. the grey strip aong the top looks to me like a piece of that plastic cable tray stuff, the kind that has the clip on lid and the perforations up the side, and its been squished in the top of the heatsink to cover the cables comming in from the other end, and some kind of grommet pushed thru to hold it in place.

I think the finned part is something that was bought, but maybe modified.  Or it is made modular so that it could be of any length.  All the pieces look new except the bolts which are ground off at different lengths.  Maybe it was shortened from its original length.  I did some color adjustments to a copy of picture #10 and found some engraving on the side.  I'll attach the pic below, the engraving is inside the red box.  As far as I can tell, it reads:

260 W
95% D.C.

I'm not sure if the "9" is right.  My guess is that what ever it is .. it is rated at 260 Watts, ?5% Duty Cycle.  That would mean that it really couldn't be energized all the time, it would need to be pulsed.  

I was thinking about the difference between picture 30 and the others.  I think maybe it was designed to produce lower voltage at higher amps.  Being that the wraps of wire are only one layer, more copper pipe real-estate was needed to boost the amps.

Nate

Quote from MAllen7424 on May 16th, 2011, 02:50 PM

Quote from Rwg42985 on May 16th, 2011, 10:14 AM

It would not dought me at all...

The only thing that Leeds me to believe it was not home maid is the Pices look stamped out and pressed out... It would take alot of money to make a stamping die to make just a couple of parts...

Look at the ridges in the end Pices... That looks like somthing you would find in somthing mass produced...

What do you think?

Thanks! ~Russ

Well I would say the fins were manuactured commercially, it is definately not aluminum based on the rainbowish color of the metal, but I do see a flaw in one of the bolts being longer than the others the sqaure looks like square-stock of the same possible metal, it almost reminds me of a Current sensing transformer, obviously not used for that, maybe inside he could be using a similiar toroidal coil around the diameter of the Copper pipe inside. Otherwise I have no clue what is inside or if it was custom made or something commercially manufactured.

the fins on the heatsink look like some kind of galvanized shim-stock. we use these universal fitting kits at work that are exactly the same colour about 7-8mm thick, you can get it pre-drilled sometimes too, and it has the same markings on the edges its made out of the same stuff for sure. Yeah i'd go with some kind of shimstock thats been drilled to suit. nothing exotic, stan said its gottta be built in a garage right?

Also look at the filling valves on all of the devices, they are just radiator bleed valves stuck in the top of a T-piece. Either they are all for ferro fluid or its a case of fill thru one valve, bleed thru the second, close the second, let the pressure build up, whip off your gas inlet pipe and screw the stopper in quick before your gas blows out everywhere. Could be a one way valve i suppose, just dont look big enough somehow.

I'm starting to think the finned thing is the solenoid part of an old school version of magnetic actuator valves.  I'll post a link to some newer styles in a text file attachment since the forum thinks its spam:P.

Nate

Quote from firepinto on May 16th, 2011, 04:20 PM

I think the finned part is something that was bought, but maybe modified.  Or it is made modular so that it could be of any length.  All the pieces look new except the bolts which are ground off at different lengths.  Maybe it was shortened from its original length.  I did some color adjustments to a copy of picture #10 and found some engraving on the side.  I'll attach the pic below, the engraving is inside the red box.  As far as I can tell, it reads:

260 W
95% D.C.

I'm not sure if the "9" is right.  My guess is that what ever it is .. it is rated at 260 Watts, ?5% Duty Cycle.  That would mean that it really couldn't be energized all the time, it would need to be pulsed.  

I was thinking about the difference between picture 30 and the others.  I think maybe it was designed to produce lower voltage at higher amps.  Being that the wraps of wire are only one layer, more copper pipe real-estate was needed to boost the amps.

Nate

Quote from MAllen7424 on May 16th, 2011, 02:50 PM

Quote from Rwg42985 on May 16th, 2011, 10:14 AM

It would not dought me at all...

The only thing that Leeds me to believe it was not home maid is the Pices look stamped out and pressed out... It would take alot of money to make a stamping die to make just a couple of parts...

Look at the ridges in the end Pices... That looks like somthing you would find in somthing mass produced...

What do you think?

Thanks! ~Russ

Well I would say the fins were manuactured commercially, it is definately not aluminum based on the rainbowish color of the metal, but I do see a flaw in one of the bolts being longer than the others the sqaure looks like square-stock of the same possible metal, it almost reminds me of a Current sensing transformer, obviously not used for that, maybe inside he could be using a similiar toroidal coil around the diameter of the Copper pipe inside. Otherwise I have no clue what is inside or if it was custom made or something commercially manufactured.

Could be its a heatsink and a magnetic keeper of somekind that concentrates the field in the epg core.

Quote from firepinto on May 16th, 2011, 05:49 PM

I'm starting to think the finned thing is the solenoid part of an old school version of magnetic actuator valves.

I thought the same thing, I believe you are correct in what it is.
A Linear Magnetic (Moving Iron ) Actuator without the return spring! Like this one made by Polynoid

11.3 Linear multiphase motors:
These actuator types resemble electric motors which have been slit along one side and spread out flat. They take many of the same forms as rotary motors. A small carriage with attached magnets may be used with a multipole wound stator for rapid and accurate servo positioning of a load. Linear actuators of this type are used in machine tools. Induction-type linear motors have coils wound on a moving pole structure, which induces eddy currents in a fixed rail. The eddy currents cause a magnetic field opposing and repelling the original field, causing thrust. Motors of this type have been used to power magnetically levitated trains. Reference 29 contains design information on these types of actuators.

Figure 11.23 Polyphase linear motor

A production type of multiphase actuator is shown in Figure 11.23.
 A steel rod with a copper sheath is pushed through a wound stator assembly (without contacting the stator), by magnetic fields set up by three-phase AC current and induced currents in the copper sheath. The force is reversible by connecting the wires in a different order. A typical unit can exert up to 90 lb. force on a 1 inch diameter rod, which may be of any length, at a maximum speed of 2 ft/sec. The duty cycle of this device is limited, however: on-to-total time is only about 3% without an auxiliary cooling fan.


More resources:
Technical Data
Wiring Options; pdf page 18 Section: Installation & Operation 2-11
Engineering
Build your own precision Linear Actuator


Northern Magnetics Inc.
25026 Anza Dr.
Santa Clarita , CA
91355
United States

Phone: 805-257-0216
FAX: 805-257-2037
Toll-Free:
Sales Contact:
Sales Email: normag@earthlink.net


NORTHERN MAGNETICS, INC.
17860 102ND ST
YOUNG AMERICA,  MN  55397-9426
(952) 467-3535

Northern Magnetics, Inc.
5711 RS Boreham Jr St Fort Smith, AR 72901

As of March 5, 1998, Northern Magnetics, Inc. operates as a subsidiary of Baldor Electric Co.

Wow that sure looks like it!  So magnetic actuators are actually variable in distance of motion unlike solenoids that are either energized or not?  If so is the amount of motion regulated by a variable pulse of voltage input or a increase in voltage input?
I'm getting tempted to build one of these in copper form.  Might have to be a winter project though!

Nate

Quote from MAllen7424 on May 17th, 2011, 06:51 AM

Quote from firepinto on May 16th, 2011, 05:49 PM

I'm starting to think the finned thing is the solenoid part of an old school version of magnetic actuator valves.

I thought the same thing, I believe you are correct in what it is.
A Linear Magnetic (Moving Iron ) Actuator without the return spring!

Quote from MAllen7424 on May 17th, 2011, 06:51 AM

Quote from firepinto on May 16th, 2011, 05:49 PM

I'm starting to think the finned thing is the solenoid part of an old school version of magnetic actuator valves.

I thought the same thing, I believe you are correct in what it is.
A Linear Magnetic (Moving Iron ) Actuator without the return spring! Like this one made by Polynoid

11.3 Linear multiphase motors:
These actuator types resemble electric motors which have been slit along one side and spread out flat. They take many of the same forms as rotary motors. A small carriage with attached magnets may be used with a multipole wound stator for rapid and accurate servo positioning of a load. Linear actuators of this type are used in machine tools. Induction-type linear motors have coils wound on a moving pole structure, which induces eddy currents in a fixed rail. The eddy currents cause a magnetic field opposing and repelling the original field, causing thrust. Motors of this type have been used to power magnetically levitated trains. Reference 29 contains design information on these types of actuators.

Figure 11.23 Polyphase linear motor

A production type of multiphase actuator is shown in Figure 11.23.
 A steel rod with a copper sheath is pushed through a wound stator assembly (without contacting the stator), by magnetic fields set up by three-phase AC current and induced currents in the copper sheath. The force is reversible by connecting the wires in a different order. A typical unit can exert up to 90 lb. force on a 1 inch diameter rod, which may be of any length, at a maximum speed of 2 ft/sec. The duty cycle of this device is limited, however: on-to-total time is only about 3% without an auxiliary cooling fan.


More resources:
Technical Data
Wiring Options; pdf page 18 Section: Installation & Operation 2-11


Northern Magnetics Inc.
25026 Anza Dr.
Santa Clarita , CA
91355
United States

Phone: 805-257-0216
FAX: 805-257-2037
Toll-Free:
Sales Contact:
Sales Email: normag@earthlink.net


NORTHERN MAGNETICS, INC.
17860 102ND ST
YOUNG AMERICA,  MN  55397-9426
(952) 467-3535

Northern Magnetics, Inc.
5711 RS Boreham Jr St Fort Smith, AR 72901

As of March 5, 1998, Northern Magnetics, Inc. operates as a subsidiary of Baldor Electric Co.

Holly crap!!!! Allen!!! You win!!! Yeah!!!!

That's exciting!!!! !!!  Yeah! Grate research work!

Thank you!!!

I knew it did not look home maid?
~Russ

That photo has the same amount of fins on it!!! Fantastic! ~Russ

Quote from Rwg42985 on May 17th, 2011, 07:44 AM

That photo has the same amount of fins on it!!! Fantastic! ~Russ

2Ft/sec is 1.36364 miles a min

That's slow?

~Russ

Quote from Rwg42985 on May 17th, 2011, 07:52 AM

Quote from Rwg42985 on May 17th, 2011, 07:44 AM

That photo has the same amount of fins on it!!! Fantastic! ~Russ

2Ft/sec is 1.36364 miles a min

That's slow?

~Russ

Just remember the milti stack... It had it's own coils so I beleave we are doing it right by making our own pulsing lenner motor... :)

It's looking good yeah?

You guys are grate! Thanks! ~Russ

Quote from firepinto on May 17th, 2011, 07:37 AM

Wow that sure looks like it!  So magnetic actuators are actually variable in distance of motion unlike solenoids that are either energized or not?  If so is the amount of motion regulated by a variable pulse of voltage input or a increase in voltage input?
I'm getting tempted to build one of these in copper form.  Might have to be a winter project though!

Switching:
Two switching modes can be used for various applications.
Single Holding:

Energized constantly except momentary interruption to release holding so rod
can be reversed.

Energized only during period when holding is required.

Energized only when rod is moving towards the holding end of the stator and
during the holding period.
Double Holding:

Energized constantly except momentary interruption to release holding so rod
can be reversed.

Energized only during period when holding is required.

Double holding coils may be switched together or one at a time.
Note: Double holding coil units are normally supplied with 2 yellow leads and one
small diameter black lead so that the holding coils may be operated
independently by applying rated voltage to the yellow and black lead. The wire
marker on one yellow lead indicates the lead that operates the holding coil on
the lead egress end of the stator. If desired, the 2 yellow leads can be tied
together for simultaneous operation of both holding coils.

Wiring Reference .pdf page 18-20

Spot on fellas, I think you've cracked it.

True, there probably is only 'one' EPG made with the actuator coils for a reason.  Stan's circuit boards could turn off or on any of the 5 coils, but the actuator is all or none.  The actuator looks like it has high current draw, and I'm guessing the reason you would want to disable some of the coils is to save on power.  Maybe depending on the magnetic gas there is a point where more input coil power doesn't provide anymore gains on the output coils.  I wonder if the finned EPG was a trial with extra parts since it doesn't have a control circuit board.  The plastic dividers look fancier but use up more space on the copper coil that could be used for more output coils.  If I make one I'll probably not use any dividers, but find a way to seal one coil in place before I wind the one next to it.  Some kind of movable block would keep the open side of the coil formed while its wound and sealed.

Very interesting stuff.:)  

Nate

Quote from Rwg42985 on May 17th, 2011, 07:54 AM

Quote from Rwg42985 on May 17th, 2011, 07:52 AM

Quote from Rwg42985 on May 17th, 2011, 07:44 AM

That photo has the same amount of fins on it!!! Fantastic! ~Russ

2Ft/sec is 1.36364 miles a min

That's slow?

~Russ

Just remember the milti stack... It had it's own coils so I beleave we are doing it right by making our own pulsing lenner motor... :)

It's looking good yeah?

You guys are grate! Thanks! ~Russ

Quote from Rwg42985 on May 17th, 2011, 07:52 AM

Quote from Rwg42985 on May 17th, 2011, 07:44 AM

That photo has the same amount of fins on it!!! Fantastic! ~Russ

2Ft/sec is 1.36364 miles a min

That's slow?

~Russ

Im not so sure thats slow, 1.36 miles a min X60 = 81.6 miles per hour. If you had a kilogram of ferrofluid moving at 80 mph i wouldnt want to get in its way.

If you add in the fact theres a kind of flywheel effect, once the drive mechanism gets the the gas/fluid up to speed it might be a case of pulsing to keep the momentum.

Im thinking of winding my copper tube in a kind of Yin-Yan symbol arrangement to cut down on the 90 degree bends, id like some kind of inline turbine pump in the middle. Depends what i can find in the way of suitable pumps .

Also im wondering if there will be any benefit in squishing the first few windings of the secondary down into the grooves of the copper pipe to get the windings as close as possible to the core. Im starting to think copper may have been the favourite material beacuse the roll i got has a 0.7mm wall thickness. i got some calipers on a piece of 15mm plastic plumbing pipe and thats got a 2.2mm wall thickness. Am i right in thinking that magnetism decreases with the square of the distance, like light is brightest near the source and drops off quickly with distance.

I wonder what would happen if you ran your drive coils with a pick up coil, capacitor and transistor like in a self resonating circuits?

Or coil shorting, i think its when you short your coil a few times at its peak voltage and it causes extra free high voltage spikes to be generated by the coil.

I was thinking each wrap of the pipe could have its own coil wrapped around it, then wire the group of 3 coils in series.  Then the complete circumference of each pipe is used to the maximum.  The only problem then is it would be about as fun as wrapping a 2 inch rodin coil, :P  unless spools were used that you could spin on the pipes to wind the coils easier.

Does the EPG need to be a circle shape? Could you make it one long 5 foot beast with two parallel standard straight pipes and 90's?  Long straight pieces might work better with the 'lazer' energy with out the need of a reflective surface.  Just thinking out loud...


Nate

Quote from phil on May 17th, 2011, 06:54 PM

Also im wondering if there will be any benefit in squishing the first few windings of the secondary down into the grooves of the copper pipe to get the windings as close as possible to the core. Im starting to think copper may have been the favourite material beacuse the roll i got has a 0.7mm wall thickness. i got some calipers on a piece of 15mm plastic plumbing pipe and thats got a 2.2mm wall thickness. Am i right in thinking that magnetism decreases with the square of the distance, like light is brightest near the source and drops off quickly with distance.

If this thing works as described then i dont think it would matter. But i think the reason he went for the circle is because it makes the whole thing more compact. At a ruff calculation and 18 inch diameter EPG with 3 wraps of tubing should use a bit under 5m end to end. A long rectangular EPG would be nearly 2.5m long. You'll be getting the same amount of magnetic flux throughout the copper tube in theory so coiling it 3 times in my mind triples the magnetic flux, so you can wind less secondarys with thicker wire.

But saying that im trying to figure out why the tall spiral design has a single wrap secondary along its length. The only thing ive been able to come up with is its like a reverse tesla coil. It steps down somewhere along the line and gives a high current output.

I think the tall stack of epg's made higher current too.  It also has the option to tap into as many or as little of the pick up coils as you want.  Instead of having the brass buss bars connecting everything, he has each level connected to an XLR audio socket for an output connection.  To me it also looks like Stan took some shortcuts to speed up the build time of such a big project.  There is a lot more wire ties holding things together and less hand crafted parts.  The copper pipe at the top with the two unions is interesting too.  It has a hose barb T'd into it, but looks like you could remove that whole section and replace it with a straight pipe, or a lazer module?:)

I'm thinking of making an EPG-Mini to see what comes of it.  Maybe use some 1/4 copper tubing or something.  Make it a quick weekend project.  Maybe just try HHO for the magnetic gas or mail it to Russ to play with. lol  It could probably be done fairly simple with quick connect fittings.  Russ, do you plan on using any sort of standard socket like a 9 pin for your pulsing coils like Stan did?

Nate

Quote from phil on May 18th, 2011, 04:26 PM

If this thing works as described then i dont think it would matter. But i think the reason he went for the circle is because it makes the whole thing more compact. At a ruff calculation and 18 inch diameter EPG with 3 wraps of tubing should use a bit under 5m end to end. A long rectangular EPG would be nearly 2.5m long. You'll be getting the same amount of magnetic flux throughout the copper tube in theory so coiling it 3 times in my mind triples the magnetic flux, so you can wind less secondarys with thicker wire.

But saying that im trying to figure out why the tall spiral design has a single wrap secondary along its length. The only thing ive been able to come up with is its like a reverse tesla coil. It steps down somewhere along the line and gives a high current output.

Guys, the tall EPG was for 3 phase type out put...

I like the thought on wall thickness!!! Nice thought!


I think that the lenear motor is out of the qustion! The wattage is to
Much!!! That's my thought anyway.

We can pulse mutli coils in the same manner to make a non moving leaner pump that will work if we have a polarized gas... Note I did not say magnetized... But polarized...

Good thoughts fellas! We will get some good results!!! My testing is getting close!

Yeah!!!

~Russ