coil capacitor using voltage and current impulses

evostars

Re: coil capacitor using voltage and current impulses
« Reply #825,  »
tuned into the max current using only the HC psu at 18kc/s
I had to tweak the duty cycle, so it would not exceed 50% (where all hell breaks loose)

now I will add the voltage psu, to see the phase angle.
I expect it to be wrong.
we'll see

 maxC18kcps.png - 82.06 kB, 1280x800, viewed 4 times.


evostars

Re: coil capacitor using voltage and current impulses
« Reply #826,  »
yep as expected everything phase shifts again. what a dance.
Tuned into the current maximum at 18.01kc/s again, so that seems stable.
phase shift is now positive.
So I guess I have removed to much capacity.

Now I will use the differnet method.
tune into the curren maximum, while adjusting the capacity to higher values, and each time look at the phase angle, with both psu's engaged
still 4uF

 positive phase.png - 81.15 kB, 1280x800, viewed 5 times.




evostars

Re: coil capacitor using voltage and current impulses
« Reply #829,  »
I put all caps back in,  I ordered more, as I have run out.
I could make 500nF by series connecting 2x 1uF but I'm done for today.

resonant at 14.8176 kc/s
slight negative.
might need a lot more capacity.

But then I start to think,
what If BOTH voltage and current coils need to be slightly detuned? hmm
but I dont think so.
current needs to be maxed.

 max.png - 81.83 kB, 1280x800, viewed 5 times.


evostars

Re: coil capacitor using voltage and current impulses
« Reply #830,  »
I made a 500nF cap from 2 1uF in series, and added it.
bright new day, bright new resonant frequency.
this is with 17.2V 0.2A on the HC psu
and 2.9V 1.84A HV psu

F=14.3 kc/s (scope displayed wrong, I rechecked it)

when I go higher on the HC psu, again the current shifts to -90 degrees, but then I stop due to the large spikes,
and also the high currents from the hc psu.

The choke only blocks AC signals, so that must mean there is a dc component, or near DC.
The capacitive coupling might be where the energy is flowing.
If the mosfets are on both ends of the coil, then I get bassicly a 97% duty cycle. which explained why the choke allowed current.
but now I only have one mosfet, so true 50% duty, which is like AC right?

you could say the HC coil is the primary for the HV coil. but I dont see the HV coil amplified, or reduced in current draw. I must pay more attention to that.

I am tempted to push the voltages up, but since the spikes are still there, I need to protect my mosfets.
maybe the snubber could now be installed again parallel to the mosfet? oh no, that caused it to slowly turn off. well that is not really a problem, since the off is not at 50% but at 47% max.
ok.. snubber it is. lets see.

My spikes are also due, to the long wire leads I am using. The energy paths should be close coupled. like the paths on a pcb should not form wide loops. So I can also focus on that.

But.... TUNING is not done yet. so, I will remove the 500nF again, and turn it into 2x 1uF and see if I still cant phase shift into -90 degrees when the current is maxed

 500n added.png - 93.99 kB, 1280x800, viewed 3 times.


evostars

Re: coil capacitor using voltage and current impulses
« Reply #831,  »
8.4V 1.3A on the HV psu for 3,5kV pp
at 13.1kc/s
the lower I tune, the more voltage and the less current I need for the high voltage.
still it is very high in voltage. strange as It should be very much detuned by now.
But it clearly acts as one resonant system.

Phase again is not changed much, while I removed 300nF and added 2uF. which is a big change.
7.6uF total in parallel.

So this read leads nowhere.

only thing to do is return to the perfect tuning, of both coils.

lets see where the HV coil turns max
(didnt make scope shot)

evostars

Re: coil capacitor using voltage and current impulses
« Reply #832,  »
also,
I know why the phase shifts of the mosfet gate.
At turn on, the HV tl494 starts first.
After that the delayed signal is present but just after a while.
It is triggered by the first tl494 and is first delayed.
Then a signal is made from that pulse.
The output is half the frequency (push pull).
So it depends on where the clock first is triggered.

A solution would be to trigger from the output of the first tl494 since that is already at half speed.
but it is 15V, and whould need to reduce in voltage (transistor buffer) then delayed, and then the current tl494 would need to be triggered.
But that would half the signal again. EXCEPT when it is not in push pull. pin13 high or low
single ended can be used, since I use a single mosfet, speed is then the same as the clock, not double.
future mod. not for now


evostars

Re: coil capacitor using voltage and current impulses
« Reply #834,  »
5.9uF again (5x1uf 9x 100nF) (real value needs to be measured)


tuned both coils to 14.8kc/s
perfectly in phase.
This is just with the hv psu at
2.61A 3.5V (3kVpp) if I go higher, I get discharges again, so I should check the coil, but for now it is high enough.

already 8App on the HC coil, without hc psu.
lets turn it up

 tuned2.png - 88.02 kB, 1280x800, viewed 4 times.


evostars

Re: coil capacitor using voltage and current impulses
« Reply #835,  »
again When the current is increased the HC coil phase shifts to the negative position.
What if I have the delay wrong. What if I need to switch 90 degrees further?
What if the displacement current and magnetic current do not need to be in phase.
What if they need to be 90 degrees separated, so they can drive eachother.

in resonance they are -180 degrees.
I assumed I needed 0 degrees. But... what If I need 90 degrees between displacement current and magnetic current??

Then voltage and current remain in phase.
resulting in current being fully amplified, not phase shifted
hmm.

That is cool, because that also means I would be switching at the max voltage, resulting in much higher displacement currents.
hmm

my mind has tricked me again

evostars

Re: coil capacitor using voltage and current impulses
« Reply #836,  »
right now the phase between the HV gate (orange) and the HC gate (blue) is 90 degrees or 270.
I just probed on of the 2 out of phase signals of the HV coil.

So If I would again phase shift 90 degrees, then... it would be 0 or 180 degrees.
Which would mean I would not need a delay at all...

at least I should put on a load with everything being tuned, as the currents now are really strong.

 90.png - 72.51 kB, 1280x800, viewed 5 times.


evostars

Re: coil capacitor using voltage and current impulses
« Reply #837,  »
only HV psu,
when loaded, current is drastically lowered.
12v 20W lamp, doesnt light up

current phase is now at -90degrees where I want it

now lets see what the hc psu can do

 load.png - 91.73 kB, 1280x800, viewed 6 times.


evostars

Re: coil capacitor using voltage and current impulses
« Reply #838,  »
when the HC votlage is added, the current phase shifts just a bit more to the negative -90, and is slighlty amplified.
0.05A 19.5V HC psu  if I go higher all hell breaks loose, not only on the audio also on the scope (and hc psu current also rises)
hc psu=2.68A 3.5V  f=same as before

I might need to tune with the load connected. AND get a much bigger load, with much less resistance. (allows more current)

 loaded and pwoered.png - 91.88 kB, 1280x800, viewed 7 times.


evostars

Re: coil capacitor using voltage and current impulses
« Reply #839,  »
orange is current through the load, 1A pp
20W 12V needs 1,67A but the lamp doesnt even get hot.
cant measure voltage right now
lost the scope shot.
load coil current phase was the same as hc coil.

more load, and measure voltage on load, to see the phase relation between volt and current on the load, here it definitly should be in phase. and since a current is present, there also should be a voltage.
Nice that it is grounded, then my probe will also work better

evostars

Re: coil capacitor using voltage and current impulses
« Reply #840,  »
so if Aether (energy) behaves as 2 types of liquid.
one being compresable like air
the other non compressable like water.

the water vortex is like the magnetic field
while the air is the displacement current (which can form a ring toroid at the right conditions)

both can  move transverse and longitudinal

If the air pressure is waving, then as a result the water will also wave.

but we don't want a resonant wave,
whereby the air and water wave are 180 degrees out of phase, moving in opposite directions (like real waves do)

we want power.
I thought I would need the water momentum together with the air pressure.

the 180 phase reversal now means that both air and water waves are moving in the same direction .
hmm

evostars

Re: coil capacitor using voltage and current impulses
« Reply #841,  »
Also,
my HV coil has layers. the bottom layer is closest coupled to the hc coil.
thus the most capacity.

thus the most displacement current.

I now have this coil ending coupled tonthe probe.

but that is wrong!
It should be series connected to the high inductance ac transformer.
while the layer that is on the outside has the open end connected to the probe.

this means reverse connecting the coil, and thus the HC coil should also be reverse connected (mosfet on the other side)

this is based on that the largest energy flow is between the ac hv transformer and the hv (extra) coil. not at its ending, but at the series connection.

evostars

Re: coil capacitor using voltage and current impulses
« Reply #842,  »
No voltage on the load.

but, only current in one direction! arrow pointing towards load.
load is earth grounded on one side. current probe on the other side.
So, current no voltage. makes you wonder about what kind of current that is.

place a diode in the load path? check current after the diode. see what polarity blocks.
if reverse then expected, its not normal magnetic current, but displacement current.

That would also mean, power comes from the flow of energy through the load, between device and earth ground.

HMM interesting

evostars

Re: coil capacitor using voltage and current impulses
« Reply #843,  »
I reverse conmected every thing so that the right side of the HV coil is connected to the ac transformer

hV coil resonant at 14.8
HC coip resonant at 14.9

could use a little bit more parallel capacity. Those will arrive today

evostars

Re: coil capacitor using voltage and current impulses
« Reply #844,  »
all works.

current in phase with voltage on the mosfet side, which is the ac trans side of the hv coil.

other side of the hc coil now reads out of phase current when both psu's are driven

no load, only ground on ouput coil (open)

when only hv psu is on, then current is still out of phase at both ends

I before had both ends same phase.

I connected the choke to the coil end, instead of the series connection as before.
would that give the difference ?





evostars

Re: coil capacitor using voltage and current impulses
« Reply #849,  »
I will reverse connect everything again.

I made a mistake.  energy flow between hv ac coil and extra hv coil is biggest at the series connection.

But the displacement current takes place between the HV extra coil and the HC coil,
which together form the plates of the capacitor

so its more about where is the voltage highest?
and thats at the end of the extra coil