Electrical Polarization Process

Sharky

RE: Electrical Polarization Process
« Reply #50, on May 30th, 2012, 03:56 AM »
Quote from sniperam on May 29th, 2012, 09:13 AM
Hello

Everyone should read this article: Here ;)

Sniperam
Very interesting indeed, looks like the Andrija Puharich device in which he also applied a porous ceramic ....

Jeff Nading

RE: Electrical Polarization Process
« Reply #51, on May 30th, 2012, 08:35 AM »
Quote from Sharky on May 30th, 2012, 03:56 AM
Quote from sniperam on May 29th, 2012, 09:13 AM
Hello

Everyone should read this article: Here ;)

Sniperam
Very interesting indeed, looks like the Andrija Puharich device in which he also applied a porous ceramic ....
Good info.:cool::D:P

kcrawford

RE: Electrical Polarization Process
« Reply #52, on May 30th, 2012, 05:52 PM »
I am just an electrical engineer but from my understanding in a tank circuit  resonance occurs when the reactance of the capacitor and the inductor are equal. Which from my understanding the fuel cell changes based on water, distilled, tap, rain, temp, and many other varibles, which wound mean that the inductor in the tank circuit must vary to match the resonance, but i have not dove deep enought into the circuit , which is what i thought was meant by resonance of the circuit, and the frequencies that are being fed by the vic circuit and 555 timers are those that excite the water best. I thought that also the coil within a coil is how you can affect the inductor value, i have seen this with a circle metallic core, however i assume with that the same holds true with the plastice insulator used with the other coil inside. My question is how to measure the fuel cell on the fly and match the coil to it to produce tank resonance. i was thinking some sort of calibrate when circuit starts,measure the cell then matching the coil offset, however this doesnt take in to account for temperature change and catalyst if added assuming the water is consisant and the level is maintened above the cell, so either all factors must have some sensors and adjustment or measure yeild and adjust the tank resonance. Someone please tell me if my understanding is way off.

~Russ

RE: Electrical Polarization Process
« Reply #53, on May 30th, 2012, 11:33 PM »Last edited on May 30th, 2012, 11:35 PM by ~Russ/Rwg42985
Quote from kcrawford on May 30th, 2012, 05:52 PM
I am just an electrical engineer but from my understanding in a tank circuit  resonance occurs when the reactance of the capacitor and the inductor are equal. Which from my understanding the fuel cell changes based on water, distilled, tap, rain, temp, and many other varibles, which wound mean that the inductor in the tank circuit must vary to match the resonance, but i have not dove deep enought into the circuit , which is what i thought was meant by resonance of the circuit, and the frequencies that are being fed by the vic circuit and 555 timers are those that excite the water best. I thought that also the coil within a coil is how you can affect the inductor value, i have seen this with a circle metallic core, however i assume with that the same holds true with the plastice insulator used with the other coil inside. My question is how to measure the fuel cell on the fly and match the coil to it to produce tank resonance. i was thinking some sort of calibrate when circuit starts,measure the cell then matching the coil offset, however this doesnt take in to account for temperature change and catalyst if added assuming the water is consisant and the level is maintened above the cell, so either all factors must have some sensors and adjustment or measure yeild and adjust the tank resonance. Someone please tell me if my understanding is way off.
hello!

first, no catalyst should be used. we want amp restriction.

i think you have some good thoughts ! i think there are some miss understood things about stans system, i think we all need to start thinking on the level of the water molecule and not so much on the tank circuit its self...  

as we know, we can magnetically and electrically " flex" the water molecule. this is one of the keys in my mind.

if we can get the coil set to resonate with its internal capacitance then we can get the highest voltage out of the coil yes? then apply that to the cell to help the " flex" of the water...

any way just some thoughts...

kcrawford,

check some of this data out...:

http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=311

http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=170

those threads may help? and you may be able to help there! :)

Blessings! ~Russ

kcrawford

RE: Electrical Polarization Process
« Reply #54, on May 31st, 2012, 06:20 AM »
i hope im not posting in wrong place but i would like someone to bash my thoughts here so I can travel down a different path if there are huge holes in my thought processes.
Well I was thinking about the issues with the gas processing in the epg. I have seen the attempts to make magnetic fluids and gasses so I did some research and really found more info that I ever thought I wanted to know most of which can be found in these two  articles.
http://www.i-b-r.org/ir00020b.htm#3.4.B.

http://www.i-b-r.org/docs/ijhe2002.pdf

I think the magnetic gas and liquid that Stanley Meyers was probably working a magnecule substance in nature. In the articles both magnetic liquid and gas are studied for many different reasons. The science that is talked about in the articles is HADRONIC MECHANICS which to me seems to fill in the blanks where quantum physics can’t explain, which is only about 2% of molecular bonds. Using a high magnetic field applied to liquids can produce magneH and magneO as well as magneCO and CO2, which has been altered enough to not even register as know elements. These high fields , lets say above 8 T, have been created in labs with magnets that can maintain  that field, however you can measure 10 T fields around arcs of high voltage. Which some people are starting to try to use however I think stan figured this out a long time ago. I think in stans injectors we are no longer dealing with a fuel cell with eltralysis going on , but instead it is now become a plasma arc reactor with the creation of mangeH and mangeO with a few traces of gases produces by the carbon based electrodes used to make the arc. This process takes extremely high voltages when conducting for waste management, however here water purification is not the point but gas extraction is. So the spray of the jet can manage the voltage needed as well as the current being pulled throught the vapor. I think when I was studing this process I came across several keys factors that lead me to believe this. One when talking of magnecules of H and O they actually have different densities and have different amounts of energy. There are magnecules of H that are found to be 7 times more dense. One of the current problems with HHO gas is that there is only like 300 btu per gallon which requires much more volume storage than can possible be stored on a vehicle, gm and some car companies are using cryogenics to cool the H down to liquid form and reduce storage this way however using plasma arc reactors the new magneH is much more dense thus requires less storage as well as releasing much more energy when combusted, which I still don’t believe is the way to go on demand is still much better. I think mangegas is what stanley was using in his epg and what was being created with his injector
Please when you read I don’t think stanley was wrong in any way I just think that he was creating magnegas instead of electoized HHO gas which is why everything he did worked, just the science is finially catching up with him as far as explaining why it worked and what was actually going on.
I think the injector or as love to call it, one hell of a plasma arc reactor, would then be key just as everyone is thinking to unlocking the technology in many different ways. The epg  as well as the voltage intensifier circuit is important to effeciantly creating the voltage needed to create the spark gap. I also saw a little video clip where the gas was applied to a lit cigarette and didn’t ignite but with a spark ignited, which makes the gas more stable in my opion.

Little note i came across as well , the technology that they use for the worlds strongest magnets, the coils they actually use copper plates cut in circles then split in spot opened like a spirel staircase and insulator between each plate to make a super dense field. I think this method might be easier and actually make a more dense field that when collapsing may make some huge spikes, and maybe help effeciancy of the epg and coils in the vic maybe.
Please comment with any thoughts

FloatyBoaty

RE: Electrical Polarization Process
« Reply #55, on May 31st, 2012, 11:59 AM »
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on May 30th, 2012, 11:33 PM
i think there are some miss understood things about stans system, i think we all need to start thinking on the level of the water molecule and not so much on the tank circuit its self...  

as we know, we can magnetically and electrically " flex" the water molecule. this is one of the keys in my mind.

if we can get the coil set to resonate with its internal capacitance then we can get the highest voltage out of the coil yes? then apply that to the cell to help the " flex" of the water...
Reminds me of what John Hutchison was working on.  High frequencies - "the Hutchison Effect".


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wJYce3I8OE

Quantum

RE: Electrical Polarization Process
« Reply #56, on June 11th, 2012, 10:52 AM »Last edited on June 12th, 2012, 02:23 AM by Quantum
Check out the pages 10 and 11, it describes how the charging of water takes place.

http://www.electrostatics.org/images/I1.pdf


Hydron

RE: Electrical Polarization Process
« Reply #57, on June 11th, 2012, 12:44 PM »
I think Stan used a bit of rather strange and vague verbage, or verbiage, depending how you look at it, in retrospect to what the rest of the world had already established a name for, such as... "Voltage Intensifier" would correlate to a step-up transformer with the addition of a magnetic ballast. "Leakage" is his way of saying electrolysis. I can count several instances in any document of Stan's where he reinvents the wheel under a new name.

"The Polarization Process", for example, is one of those names that means so little, but, yet  describes exactly what he is talking about. What is it that is getting polarized, the water? No, water is already a polar molecule and the addition of an electrical field will only strengthen the hydrogen bonds with polar alignment. I would assume what is being polarized is the oxygen and hydrogen. Which, in essence, is what the rest of the world calls positively charging(ionizing) gases. These gases are more powerful than when they are in there stable diatomic state. What I mean when I say "more powerful", I am speaking in terms of more heat produced by the reaction.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/15115795/Graneau-Paper-on-Water-Explosions

Jeff Nading

RE: Electrical Polarization Process
« Reply #58, on June 11th, 2012, 03:13 PM »
Quote from Hydron on June 11th, 2012, 12:44 PM
I think Stan used a bit of rather strange and vague verbage, or verbiage, depending how you look at it, in retrospect to what the rest of the world had already established a name for, such as... "Voltage Intensifier" would correlate to a step-up transformer with the addition of a magnetic ballast. "Leakage" is his way of saying electrolysis. I can count several instances in any document of Stan's where he reinvents the wheel under a new name.

"The Polarization Process", for example, is one of those names that means so little, but, yet  describes exactly what he is talking about. What is it that is getting polarized, the water? No, water is already a polar molecule and the addition of an electrical field will only strengthen the hydrogen bonds with polar alignment. I would assume what is being polarized is the oxygen and hydrogen. Which, in essence, is what the rest of the world calls positively charging(ionizing) gases. These gases are more powerful than when they are in there stable diatomic state. What I mean when I say "more powerful", I am speaking in terms of more heat produced by the reaction.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/15115795/Graneau-Paper-on-Water-Explosions
Hello Hydron, I think you and Terry are on the same path, you might want to collaborate, here,
 http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=573
thanks, Jeff.:D

geenee

RE: Electrical Polarization Process
« Reply #59, on June 11th, 2012, 04:48 PM »Last edited on June 11th, 2012, 04:52 PM by geenee
Do you know about "Dead shot condition"?

Stan say NEED MORE VOLTAGE(across cell voltage) but electrolysis voltage drop, can't rise up.

real magic water is good dielectric.70MV/Meter=70kv/mm dielectric strength mean good better than air or better than plastic.
this way water USE IN HIGH VOLTAGE CAPACITOR. WATER that i say is 100% WATER no contamination.

you should distill a water by you self. and test charge water capacitor minimum 110V to 1000V to 20KV.if it no leak voltage then it work.

i think i figured out all.and need more testing.
see also this http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=563

geenee

Webmug

RE: Electrical Polarization Process
« Reply #60, on June 12th, 2012, 04:41 AM »
Hi,

Stan explains (multiple and multiple times in all his lectures) when you restrict the amps (EPP), the water molecules will take on a electrical charge if you pulse voltage on it (no coating on the exciters).

Making use of the "dielectric properties of water" between two exciters you make the water a part of the electronic circuit as a (water)capacitor and connect (resonant) chokes to both sides and tune into it (LC resonance) to restrict the amps (collapsing the magnetic fields of the chokes) to "choke of" the amp flow and let voltage take over (charge the water molecule).

The water between the exciters, when not using chokes (restricting the amps) is a dead-short condition, water molecule will not take a charge! (only max. 2 Volts) and is 180 out of phase as the electrolysis process which is a dead short condition.

So by using magnetic field and resonance we restrict amps (and we overcome the dead short condition).

Higher "unipolar" pulse voltage (amplitude) and at the same time restricting the amp flow we charge the water molecule even further.

Br,
Webmug

Jeff Nading

RE: Electrical Polarization Process
« Reply #61, on June 12th, 2012, 06:10 AM »
Quote from Webmug on June 12th, 2012, 04:41 AM
Hi,

Stan explains (multiple and multiple times in all his lectures) when you restrict the amps (EPP), the water molecules will take on a electrical charge if you pulse voltage on it (no coating on the exciters).

Making use of the "dielectric properties of water" between two exciters you make the water a part of the electronic circuit as a (water)capacitor and connect (resonant) chokes to both sides and tune into it (LC resonance) to restrict the amps (collapsing the magnetic fields of the chokes) to "choke of" the amp flow and let voltage take over (charge the water molecule).

The water between the exciters, when not using chokes (restricting the amps) is a dead-short condition, water molecule will not take a charge! (only max. 2 Volts) and is 180 out of phase as the electrolysis process which is a dead short condition.

So by using magnetic field and resonance we restrict amps (and we overcome the dead short condition).

Higher "unipolar" pulse voltage (amplitude) and at the same time restricting the amp flow we charge the water molecule even further.

Br,
Webmug
This does make prefect since to me, because higher amperage's is what causes the dead short condition, so restricting the amps as you have stated, using the chokes, will let the water charge.:cool::D:P

Ravenous Emu

RE: Electrical Polarization Process
« Reply #62, on June 12th, 2012, 09:05 PM »
Maybe, here's another way of looking at the same thing.... (let me know what you guys think.)
What if you had two, really big, electromagnets and one side was positive and the other negative?

Would that behave any different than an LC circuit?
If so, how so?

Another thought... The one patent that stan uses for a power supply. (I don't remember which one off the top of my head.)
He used resistors in series with the capacitor.

My question would be...
How would a "power resistor" behave connected to a capacitor (in series)?
it would dissipate that current as heat... but, would voltage be the same across the capacitor?

PS. I'm trying to educate myself on some of this stuff.  I've got a bunch of text books that I'm reading through. Sometimes I think my head is gonna explode from information overload. :D

Sharky

RE: Electrical Polarization Process
« Reply #63, on June 13th, 2012, 12:42 AM »
Quote from Ravenous Emu on June 12th, 2012, 09:05 PM
Maybe, here's another way of looking at the same thing.... (let me know what you guys think.)
What if you had two, really big, electromagnets and one side was positive and the other negative?

Would that behave any different than an LC circuit?
If so, how so?

Another thought... The one patent that stan uses for a power supply. (I don't remember which one off the top of my head.)
He used resistors in series with the capacitor.

My question would be...
How would a "power resistor" behave connected to a capacitor (in series)?
it would dissipate that current as heat... but, would voltage be the same across the capacitor?

PS. I'm trying to educate myself on some of this stuff.  I've got a bunch of text books that I'm reading through. Sometimes I think my head is gonna explode from information overload. :D
Welcome to the club ;) , ... information overload is a common problem among WFC researchers, there is no other cure than to stop which is not an option for most of us :cool:

Connecting a resistor in series with a capacitor will behave very different then connecting a coil. A coil is capable of storing energy through its magnetic field while a resistor will disipate the energy through heat. So the coil stores energy during pulses and releases the energy to the (water)capacitor during pulse off time, since the blocking diode is there it will create a step charging effect because the energy being inputted has only one way to go and that is to the capacitor. So the capacitor also stores energy but that is through an electric field instead of magnetic field.

Keep reading, learning and asking, ... we need as much brillant minds in here as posible ...

Amsy

RE: Electrical Polarization Process
« Reply #64, on June 13th, 2012, 01:05 PM »Last edited on June 13th, 2012, 09:38 PM by Amsy
Hello everyone,

I´m new in the forum and I want to introduce myself. My name is Andy, and i´m from Europe. I´m studying on Stanley Meyer WFC and Watercar secret and patents for 2 and a half year and also made many basic tests with coaxial stainless steel pipes (WFC).
Maybe I can help a little bit with some electrotechnical problems. You will notice, that English ist not my native language. ;)

The first thing I want to say is, that the webside of russ is very impressive. Also watched the videos. :)

One of my first tests was to find out the conductivity of different watertypes. The result was like Stanley Meyer descriped in the patents and videos. Different watertypes have different "pollution" in it. So the conductivity is direct related to the "pollution" of the water because of the ions. Ions cause elektrolysis. The "best" water for the polarization Process therefor is pure water (distilled water) to minimize the amp leakage.
e.g. I measured for Tap water in my little tube cell (~4 inch long, ~1 inch dia) a resistance of 5ohms ("Measuring" by calculating the R=Voltage/current). The water will cause a "dead short" condition to every secondary side of a transformer (i tested it). The voltage dropped from 900V in idle state to 2V. The result was electrolyses.

The second test I made was to inhibit the amperage to prevent elektrolyses. There are some options to do this. My first was with a heat resistor. It worked very good. Also it it can be calculated, that when a resistor is in series with the wfc, a normal voltage divider is built. The amperage is defined of the overall resistance and the the voltage input. (normal electrotechnical calculation)

So that is very important, because a coil is also a resistor (but frequency based).
And when pulsing, the resistor of the coil can be very high. And the amperage also droppes to prevent electrolyses (that works very good, I tested it few times).

Then I tried this with a power transformer (toroid) to get this on the secondary of the transformer. It worked very good, and the voltage rises very high on the secondary side (~800Volts) with very little amperage input on the primary. The voltage drop over the WFC tube was 0.9V and the Input was ~800Volts. So the voltage divider worked! :)

Until here, this all have nothing to do with "resonance". It is only a few basic tests i made. I never found a frequency where resonance occure between the coil and the wfc. :dodgy: So I begin to study resonace circuits. One thing is very important. The L and the C can not build a resonace circuit because of the diode. Also the simulation programs can not make a series resonance circuit with the diode. (My operating experience for my tests).
Because in a series resonance circuit it is a must that the the capacitor can discharge over the coil.  :dodgy:

Also it is very important to notice, what Stanley Meyer is telling us, by using the word "resonance". In the patents, there are many discreptions about this "state".
In the Memos, e.g. it is descripted as a state of maximum gas yield and strong ionisation of the water molecul (chapter of VIC Matrix...). In a other patent I read, that this a state in which the current drops dramatically. I never heard, that in a series resonance circuit, the current drops at frequency close to resonance. This will happen in a parallel resonance circuit. Thats also a important fact.

I hope I can help a little bit at your research and maybe you have a question about electrotechical circuits, I can try to answer it. :blush:

CU


Sorry 4 my bad english :)

Still correcting my post....

 
 


FloatyBoaty

RE: Electrical Polarization Process
« Reply #65, on June 13th, 2012, 01:22 PM »
Quote from Amsy on June 13th, 2012, 01:05 PM
Hello everyone,

I´m new in the forum and I want to introduce myself. My name is Andy, and i´m from Europe. I´m studying on Stanley Meyer WFC and Watercar secret and patents for 2 and a half year and also made many basic tests with coaxial stainless steel pipes (WFC).
Maybe I can help a little bit with some electrotechnical problems. You will notice, that English ist not my native language. ;)

The first thing I want to say is, that the webside of russ is very impressive. Also watched the videos. :)

One of my first tests was to find out the conductivity of different watertypes. The result was like Stanley Meyer descriped in the patents and videos. Different watertypes have different "pollution" in it. So the conductivity is direct related to the "pollution" of the water because of the ions. Ions cause elektrolysis. The "best" water for the polarization Process therefor is pure water (distilled water) to minimize the amp leakage.
e.g. I measured for Tap water in my little tube cell (~4 inch long, ~1 inch dia) a resistance of 5ohms ("Measuring" by calculating the R=Voltage/current). The water will cause a short dead condition to every secondary side of a transformer (i tested it). The voltage dropped from 900V in idle state to 2V. The result was electrolyses.

The second test I made was to inhibit the amperage to prevent elektrolyses. There are some options to do this. My first was with a heat resistor. It worked very good. Also it it can be calculated, that when a resistor is in series with the wfc, a normal voltage divider is built. The amperage is defined of the overall resistance and the the voltage input. (normal electrotechnical calculation)

So that is very important, because a coil is also a resistor (but frequency based).
And when pulsing, the resistor of the coil can be very high. And the amperage also droppes to prevent electrolyses (that works very good, I tested it few times).

Then I tried this with a power transformer (toroid) to get this on the secondary of the transformer. It worked very good, and the voltage rises very high on the secondary side (~800Volts) with very little amperage input on the primary. The voltage drop over the WFC tube was 0.9V and the Input was ~800Volts. So the voltage divider worked! :)

Until here, this all have nothing to do with "resonance". It is only a few basic tests i made. I never found a frequency where resonance occure between the coil and the wfc. :dodgy: So I begin to study resonace circuits. One thing is very important. The L and the C can not build a resonace circuit because of the diode. Also the simulation programs can not make a series resonance circuit with the diode.
Because in a series resonance circuit it is a must that the the capacitor can discharge over the coil.  :dodgy:

Also it is very important to notice, what Stanley Meyer is telling us, by using the word "resonance". In the patents, there are many discreptions about this "state".
In the Memos, e.g. it is descripted as a state of maximum gas yield and strong ionisation of the water molecul (chapter of VIC Matrix...). In a other patent I read, that this a state in which the current drops dramatically. I never heard, that in a series resonance circuit, the current drops at frequency close to resonance. This will happen in a parallel resonance circuit. Thats also a importnant fact.

I hope I can help a little bit at your research and maybe you have a question about electrotechical circuits, I can try to answer it. :blush:

CU


Sorry 4 my bad english :)
Hello, and welcome.

Nice run down of what you have been doing!  Hope to hear more from you.  :)

Jeff Nading

RE: Electrical Polarization Process
« Reply #66, on June 13th, 2012, 01:22 PM »
Quote from Amsy on June 13th, 2012, 01:05 PM
Hello everyone,

I´m new in the forum and I want to introduce myself. My name is Andy, and i´m from Europe. I´m studying on Stanley Meyer WFC and Watercar secret and patents for 2 and a half year and also made many basic tests with coaxial stainless steel pipes (WFC).
Maybe I can help a little bit with some electrotechnical problems. You will notice, that English ist not my native language. ;)

The first thing I want to say is, that the webside of russ is very impressive. Also watched the videos. :)

One of my first tests was to find out the conductivity of different watertypes. The result was like Stanley Meyer descriped in the patents and videos. Different watertypes have different "pollution" in it. So the conductivity is direct related to the "pollution" of the water because of the ions. Ions cause elektrolysis. The "best" water for the polarization Process therefor is pure water (distilled water) to minimize the amp leakage.
e.g. I measured for Tap water in my little tube cell (~4 inch long, ~1 inch dia) a resistance of 5ohms ("Measuring" by calculating the R=Voltage/current). The water will cause a short dead condition to every secondary side of a transformer (i tested it). The voltage dropped from 900V in idle state to 2V. The result was electrolyses.

The second test I made was to inhibit the amperage to prevent elektrolyses. There are some options to do this. My first was with a heat resistor. It worked very good. Also it it can be calculated, that when a resistor is in series with the wfc, a normal voltage divider is built. The amperage is defined of the overall resistance and the the voltage input. (normal electrotechnical calculation)

So that is very important, because a coil is also a resistor (but frequency based).
And when pulsing, the resistor of the coil can be very high. And the amperage also droppes to prevent electrolyses (that works very good, I tested it few times).

Then I tried this with a power transformer (toroid) to get this on the secondary of the transformer. It worked very good, and the voltage rises very high on the secondary side (~800Volts) with very little amperage input on the primary. The voltage drop over the WFC tube was 0.9V and the Input was ~800Volts. So the voltage divider worked! :)

Until here, this all have nothing to do with "resonance". It is only a few basic tests i made. I never found a frequency where resonance occure between the coil and the wfc. :dodgy: So I begin to study resonace circuits. One thing is very important. The L and the C can not build a resonace circuit because of the diode. Also the simulation programs can not make a series resonance circuit with the diode.
Because in a series resonance circuit it is a must that the the capacitor can discharge over the coil.  :dodgy:

Also it is very important to notice, what Stanley Meyer is telling us, by using the word "resonance". In the patents, there are many discreptions about this "state".
In the Memos, e.g. it is descripted as a state of maximum gas yield and strong ionisation of the water molecul (chapter of VIC Matrix...). In a other patent I read, that this a state in which the current drops dramatically. I never heard, that in a series resonance circuit, the current drops at frequency close to resonance. This will happen in a parallel resonance circuit. Thats also a importnant fact.

I hope I can help a little bit at your research and maybe you have a question about electrotechical circuits, I can try to answer it. :blush:

CU


Sorry 4 my bad english :)
Your english is good Andy, and the results of your test are even better, Thanks.:D

Davecbwfc

RE: Electrical Polarization Process
« Reply #67, on June 13th, 2012, 08:26 PM »Last edited on June 13th, 2012, 08:40 PM by Davecbwfc
Quote from Jeff Nading on June 13th, 2012, 01:22 PM
Quote from Amsy on June 13th, 2012, 01:05 PM
Hello everyone,

I´m new in the forum and I want to introduce myself. My name is Andy, and i´m from Europe. I´m studying on Stanley Meyer WFC and Watercar secret and patents for 2 and a half year and also made many basic tests with coaxial stainless steel pipes (WFC).
Maybe I can help a little bit with some electrotechnical problems. You will notice, that English ist not my native language. ;)

The first thing I want to say is, that the webside of russ is very impressive. Also watched the videos. :)

One of my first tests was to find out the conductivity of different watertypes. The result was like Stanley Meyer descriped in the patents and videos. Different watertypes have different "pollution" in it. So the conductivity is direct related to the "pollution" of the water because of the ions. Ions cause elektrolysis. The "best" water for the polarization Process therefor is pure water (distilled water) to minimize the amp leakage.
e.g. I measured for Tap water in my little tube cell (~4 inch long, ~1 inch dia) a resistance of 5ohms ("Measuring" by calculating the R=Voltage/current). The water will cause a short dead condition to every secondary side of a transformer (i tested it). The voltage dropped from 900V in idle state to 2V. The result was electrolyses.

The second test I made was to inhibit the amperage to prevent elektrolyses. There are some options to do this. My first was with a heat resistor. It worked very good. Also it it can be calculated, that when a resistor is in series with the wfc, a normal voltage divider is built. The amperage is defined of the overall resistance and the the voltage input. (normal electrotechnical calculation)

So that is very important, because a coil is also a resistor (but frequency based).
And when pulsing, the resistor of the coil can be very high. And the amperage also droppes to prevent electrolyses (that works very good, I tested it few times).

Then I tried this with a power transformer (toroid) to get this on the secondary of the transformer. It worked very good, and the voltage rises very high on the secondary side (~800Volts) with very little amperage input on the primary. The voltage drop over the WFC tube was 0.9V and the Input was ~800Volts. So the voltage divider worked! :)

Until here, this all have nothing to do with "resonance". It is only a few basic tests i made. I never found a frequency where resonance occure between the coil and the wfc. :dodgy: So I begin to study resonace circuits. One thing is very important. The L and the C can not build a resonace circuit because of the diode. Also the simulation programs can not make a series resonance circuit with the diode.
Because in a series resonance circuit it is a must that the the capacitor can discharge over the coil.  :dodgy:

Also it is very important to notice, what Stanley Meyer is telling us, by using the word "resonance". In the patents, there are many discreptions about this "state".
In the Memos, e.g. it is descripted as a state of maximum gas yield and strong ionisation of the water molecul (chapter of VIC Matrix...). In a other patent I read, that this a state in which the current drops dramatically. I never heard, that in a series resonance circuit, the current drops at frequency close to resonance. This will happen in a parallel resonance circuit. Thats also a importnant fact.

I hope I can help a little bit at your research and maybe you have a question about electrotechical circuits, I can try to answer it. :blush:

CU


Sorry 4 my bad english :)
Your english is good Andy, and the results of your test are even better, Thanks.:D
I would just like to say, it sound like you guys are on the right direction. The other thing I would like to say is either we are missing something or this system will not work. At least in theory. hopefully someone stumbles upon it. Anyway, if you restrict amp flow with chokes you can build voltage potential. I have seen over 500 volts across my cell with my vic. The problem is that you can't just ionize water with 500 volts or 1000 volts or 5000 volts. H20 needs a much higher voltage potential to ionize. Buy and read high voltage breakdown of water. We need 20k to ionize water. From this I can conclude that either our vic's are missing something huge or we need to look deep into quantum physics to find the answer.

Andy, sound like you have been learning a lot! The biggest difference between the a coil and a resistor is that we can block current with inductive reactance which does't create power lose through heat. As far as the series resonance that is obstructed by the diode; true resonance is not their but you can still increase the voltage. The circuit locks into the primary or secondary resonance anyway. not the series lc resonance. Don, the man how had the real equipment found this out.

FloatyBoaty

RE: Electrical Polarization Process
« Reply #68, on June 13th, 2012, 09:29 PM »
Quote from Davecbwfc on June 13th, 2012, 08:26 PM
I would just like to say, it sound like you guys are on the right direction. The other thing I would like to say is either we are missing something or this system will not work. At least in theory. hopefully someone stumbles upon it. Anyway, if you restrict amp flow with chokes you can build voltage potential. I have seen over 500 volts across my cell with my vic. The problem is that you can't just ionize water with 500 volts or 1000 volts or 5000 volts. H20 needs a much higher voltage potential to ionize. Buy and read high voltage breakdown of water. We need 20k to ionize water. From this I can conclude that either our vic's are missing something huge or we need to look deep into quantum physics to find the answer.

Andy, sound like you have been learning a lot! The biggest difference between the a coil and a resistor is that we can block current with inductive reactance which does't create power lose through heat. As far as the series resonance that is obstructed by the diode; true resonance is not their but you can still increase the voltage. The circuit locks into the primary or secondary resonance anyway. not the series lc resonance. Don, the man how had the real equipment found this out.
We could take some ideas from Tesla - high frequency, high "current" (he didn't use voltage/amperage terms)

Gunther Rattay

RE: Electrical Polarization Process
« Reply #69, on June 13th, 2012, 11:40 PM »Last edited on June 13th, 2012, 11:46 PM by bussi04
Quote from Davecbwfc on June 13th, 2012, 08:26 PM
...
I have seen over 500 volts across my cell with my vic. The problem is that you can't just ionize water with 500 volts or 1000 volts or 5000 volts. H20 needs a much higher voltage potential to ionize. Buy and read high voltage breakdown of water. We need 20k to ionize water.
...
Interesting!

Where did you get this information 20 kV from? And what do you mean by "Buy and read high voltage breakdown of water" ? Do you have a link to a specific document?

sniperam

RE: Electrical Polarization Process
« Reply #70, on June 14th, 2012, 07:25 AM »
Hello,

If you looking for a DIY Variable High Voltage Power Supply up to 50 kV here

Sniperam

Amsy

RE: Electrical Polarization Process
« Reply #71, on June 14th, 2012, 07:41 AM »Last edited on June 14th, 2012, 09:23 AM by Amsy
Thank you all for your "welcoming words" :)

I also want to share with you my latest test I made 4 weeks ago (my best so far). I want to do this, because, I was able to produce a "strong" electrical/voltage field in my Coax tube and around the tube. Maybe this can by the "first step" in the direction of water fracturing....but I don´t know exactly.

I used a toroid with two secondary coils (same inductivity) and one primary coil. (Step-up setup).
The two secondarys where connected together like the Charging Chokes int the VIC (but without an "Main"secondary). I put the diode between them. The first coil was not similar wrapped like the second one (direction of wrapping). So the setup on the secondary was: First Coil->WFC->Second Coil->Diode->First Coil

With this setup I was able to produce 1,5kV peaks measured on the first coil @ 1.5 Amps on the primary. The amperage on secondary was 600µA. No electrolyses, but also no other reactions in the WFC. So one of the induktivitys worked as a resistor. The pulsing frequency was 11kHz, but also 9kHz or something worked.
To be sure, that there is a elecrical field in the tube WFC i took a phase controller with a little neon lamp (bulb). Because the neon begins to glow when the voltage is bigger than ~100V (Ionisable gas inside). I was able to detect a voltage field around my WFC (Pics in the attachment: 1. Off state of the circuit, 2. ON state of the circuit, measured outside of the water, 3. ON state of the circuit, measured inside of the water).

Unfortunately, the isolation in the toroid windigs beginn to breakdown and the windigs made a dead short because of the high voltage. :-/
Maybe this can help a little bit to understand the "voltage field" and how it can be created without electrolyses. For me it was a new experience. :)
Quote from Davecbwfc on June 13th, 2012, 08:26 PM
Quote from Jeff Nading on June 13th, 2012, 01:22 PM
Your english is good Andy, and the results of your test are even better, Thanks.:D
I would just like to say, it sound like you guys are on the right direction. The other thing I would like to say is either we are missing something or this system will not work. At least in theory. hopefully someone stumbles upon it. Anyway, if you restrict amp flow with chokes you can build voltage potential. I have seen over 500 volts across my cell with my vic. The problem is that you can't just ionize water with 500 volts or 1000 volts or 5000 volts. H20 needs a much higher voltage potential to ionize. Buy and read high voltage breakdown of water. We need 20k to ionize water. From this I can conclude that either our vic's are missing something huge or we need to look deep into quantum physics to find the answer.

Andy, sound like you have been learning a lot! The biggest difference between the a coil and a resistor is that we can block current with inductive reactance which does't create power lose through heat. As far as the series resonance that is obstructed by the diode; true resonance is not their but you can still increase the voltage. The circuit locks into the primary or secondary resonance anyway. not the series lc resonance. Don, the man how had the real equipment found this out.
Yes, this "step by step" building the circuit was very interesting. Also for me, it is not clear in the moment, at which voltage the reaction begins and if the frequency used is a crucial factor. As you said, maybe it is 20kV (Stanley Meyer writed this very often). The easiest way to produce such voltages is a flyback transformer or a spark coil. But the voltage on a secondary will only rise up when there is a big resistor in the circuit (like a spark gap or a big inductivity). So Ross´s video of the comparison between the VIC and the flyback transformer can be an important thing....

The voltage is generated by the secondary main coil and the first charging choke like in a flyback transformer. Also an air gap is in the magnetic core of the VIC (Ross´s video with the two magnetic core U-profiles).
Maybe the big resistor to rise the voltage potential what Stanley Meyer was using is the secondary charging choke because of the different wrap-direction it could not work as a voltage supply, so it only could work as a resistor (like in my test with the toroid).

Also flyback transformers are frequency controlles with help of the "pick up" coil to generate the best voltage.
One important thing is also, that mayer used a "frequency scanner" to look in the "right" frequency. In a video you can hear, that this frequencys are in a range of low audio. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ub6cmuj-fwU  (27:40)  Maybe 0-10kHz.

Maybe this considerations can help a little bit. :shy:

Greetings






Jeff Nading

RE: Electrical Polarization Process
« Reply #72, on June 14th, 2012, 08:26 AM »Last edited on June 14th, 2012, 08:27 AM by Jeff Nading
Quote from sniperam on June 14th, 2012, 07:25 AM
Hello,

If you looking for a DIY Variable High Voltage Power Supply up to 50 kV here

Sniperam
Is there any way you can post the complete build and give them credit for it, rather than us having to join another forum? this would be a good build, just don't have the time for another forum, thanks.:D

Davecbwfc

RE: Electrical Polarization Process
« Reply #73, on June 14th, 2012, 09:44 AM »
Quote from Jeff Nading on June 14th, 2012, 08:26 AM
Quote from sniperam on June 14th, 2012, 07:25 AM
Hello,

If you looking for a DIY Variable High Voltage Power Supply up to 50 kV here

Sniperam
Is there any way you can post the complete build and give them credit for it, rather than us having to join another forum? this would be a good build, just don't have the time for another forum, thanks.:D
http://www.amazon.com/High-Voltage-Electrical-Breakdown-Water-Kristiansen/dp/1934939005/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1339680841&sr=1-2


That is the link for the book I was talking about. It's research done by the university of Texas to improve upon water capacitors. It maybe not be worth it to some of you but I like some of the info.

Jeff is correct, you can't just apply a 50,000 volt power source and expect to see that across the cell. The more voltage you apply, the harder it will be to build voltage potential across the cell. If current is flowing through the cell, it's not acting like a capacitor. As far as stan's electronics. He did have a phase lock loop to lock into resoance as well as a scanning circuit to scan through the frequency bandwidth and find resonance. I have a replication of these circuits


Ravenous Emu

RE: Electrical Polarization Process
« Reply #74, on June 14th, 2012, 10:20 AM »
Quote from Sharky on June 13th, 2012, 12:42 AM
A coil is capable of storing energy through its magnetic field while a resistor will disipate the energy through heat....So the capacitor also stores energy but that is through an electric field instead of magnetic field.

Keep reading, learning and asking, ... we need as much brillant minds in here as posible ...
I'm just gonna throw ideas at you guys. :D
Well, lets just say you used the resistor instead of the Inductor...
What if you used it to heat the water? Kinda like using an electric stove to boil water. (by the way, I know that stan had a "steam resonator"... but I'm not concerned about that yet.)

I do know, that in an RC Circuit, the amount of resistance determines how fast the capacitor charges.  

This is a website I've found a long time ago.  It helps explain "DC Resonant Charging".  http://www.richieburnett.co.uk/dcreschg.html#resonant

Which, essentially, verifies every thing you said. :D