Electrical Polarization Process

securesupplies

RE: Electrical Polarization Process
« Reply #25, on March 20th, 2012, 08:18 AM »Last edited on March 20th, 2012, 08:20 AM by securesupplies
Very Interesting

thank you for posting your thoughts , it helps alot

Attached for others. to download and print save & keep

PS please look here

stan meyer injector/ ignitor particularly the last posts

http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=134


Daniel
RE: Dan Electrical Polarization Process
« Reply #26, on March 20th, 2012, 08:23 AM »
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on March 16th, 2012, 03:37 AM
Quote from securesupplies on March 15th, 2012, 11:38 PM
Hi I am posting this from You tube
I would be interested in you comment Russ and Alex.
Dan danieldonatelli@hotmail.com

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-x3PVi8wF0[/url]

what are the inductance of each coil? i try to replicate.

Jusubbi1 3 months ago
@Jusubbi1 L1 = 1263mH and L2 = 1138mH...I have the coils & resonant cavity measurements on my website GlobalKast(dot)com in the "Documentation" section located at the bottom of the page under my name.
TonyWoodside 2 months ago
What happens is theres a parallel resonance that will occur between the L1 & L2 chokes and this will cause a high impedance to current flow while increasing the magnetic field. I learned this while testing the 8XA circuit. You have a series resonance between the L1 and Cell and then a parallel resonance between L1 & L2 coils.

TonyWoodside 6 months ago

2.5khz is just the frequency the LC circuit resonants at...Its also the same frequency that Stan says it should be.

TonyWoodside 6 months ago

How many turns of each coil has in your transformer and how much is your cell capacitance?

-Jusubbi
Jusubbi1 6 months ago

Tony, the resonance between L1 and L2 you should mention it to the distributed capabilities of the turns of the windings?
danielgpalacios 6 months ago
Tony, please excuse my questions if it seems ignorant. I have not built a VIC transformer before. Would the use of Tesla's bifilar coil method on any of the coils on the transformer core be beneficial at magnifying the magnetic field while keeping the induced current low with the blocking diode?
 
Secondly, is the feedback coil with the 5V excitation ALSO utilized as a flux clamping coil on that side of the diode? Does the diode and capacitor create a flux clamping effect reducing current?
 ImJacksAmygdala 6 months ago

2.5khz is just the frequency the LC circuit resonants at...Its also the same frequency that Stan says it should be.
TonyWoodside 6 months ago
well... i haven't the much to say... im still testing, but here you can see all the VIC info,

http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=170&pid=3580#pid3580

still working on the core and circuit... once its done, we will be off to answer some of these questions.

also read this:

http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=311&pid=3147#pid3147

thanks, ~Russ
Thank you Russ ,


freethisone

RE: Electrical Polarization Process
« Reply #27, on March 25th, 2012, 01:12 PM »Last edited on March 25th, 2012, 01:14 PM by freethisone
hi Russ all. I found a patent that would help trouble shoot problems with the light cavity.
Not sure if you have seen this one..
It has some useful  information that may help..

Cheers :cool:

Sirgoose

RE: Electrical Polarization Process
« Reply #28, on March 28th, 2012, 09:55 PM »
Great Job, keep on doing what your doing!

geenee

RE: Electrical Polarization Process
« Reply #29, on April 10th, 2012, 06:58 PM »
Hello everybody

I'm new here.I tested circuit(gatepulseLC) on multisim11.the result that i dont understand is Vrms between L and C that have 10kv+ but V or Vdc not much than 5V because i use 5 v from clock signal voltage source. I think this voltage from capacitor is the talk from stanley meyer(he say 20KV+).Or this Voltage from multisim ERROR?

i attach pic and multisim11file that can test it and someone know why Vrms rise KV?

i no good in english im sorry about that

thank alot all
RE: Electrical Polarization Process
« Reply #30, on April 11th, 2012, 12:50 AM »
this another LCL gate pulse circuit

voltage rise infinity (-E-) on picture and program ERROR(time too small???)

look the pic i attach and i attach multisim11file to test by yourself

thank alot all

~Russ

RE: Electrical Polarization Process
« Reply #31, on April 11th, 2012, 01:22 AM »
Quote from geenee on April 10th, 2012, 06:58 PM
Hello everybody

I'm new here.I tested circuit(gatepulseLC) on multisim11.the result that i dont understand is Vrms between L and C that have 10kv+ but V or Vdc not much than 5V because i use 5 v from clock signal voltage source. I think this voltage from capacitor is the talk from stanley meyer(he say 20KV+).Or this Voltage from multisim ERROR?

i attach pic and multisim11file that can test it and someone know why Vrms rise KV?

i no good in english im sorry about that

thank alot all
good work, and i cant answer your question, but i can say that the simulator will allays be differently than real life. the sim cant do things that we are trying to do. the sim is trying to simulate something that it can not do... its good for reference but not always for this type of testing... just thought i would throw that out there.

thanks! ~Russ

Webmug

RE: Electrical Polarization Process
« Reply #32, on April 11th, 2012, 07:06 AM »
Hi,

What I understand:

We can not do full VIC circuit simulations because it's an "open system".
All circuit simulations have "ground" GND reference and are based on "closed systems".

Look at the VIC transformer, there are no "ground" or GND connections and it is a "open system". There are magnetic interactions from the coils and core. Also the water capacitor is an "open system".

Only the pulsed primary input coil has "ground" or GND and this is called a "closed system".

Br,
Webmug


geenee

RE: Electrical Polarization Process
« Reply #33, on April 11th, 2012, 08:22 PM »Last edited on April 14th, 2012, 04:53 PM by geenee
Thanks Russ and Webmug

i just thought to simulate EPP on multisim11 because it's the best program and the result is nearly same real circuit .i think.
Meyer use simple principles.and simulation program can test the theory of Meyer.

in real circuit i can't measure C from watercapacitor that i use.i use cheap capacitor meter to measure capacitance
my dry cell(13plates-nn+...) have 8000 uF(test buy minipa MC153 i think it's ERROR) and another multimeter(Victor9805a) have result 8uF(200uF range) 3uF(20uF range)

i confused about the result. from Capacitance result i test pulse with 7 H choke, 2H choke.the lowtest frequency is 64 hz(calculate from 2H and 3uF) and test it in LC series.No resonant any way cause Voltage across water capacitor no more than input voltage(about 2-3V).

i search by step up from low range FQ(1HZ) to high FQ(200khz) square wave 20-70% duty cycle on my pll circuit
i think if Voltage higher than input then resonance frequency can work.but it's not. or it's not work because i dont put blocking diode? i use voltage from pll signal output(2-3V).

anyway my question is

1.blocking diode is the most important for rise KV on watercapacitor? what the best model?20kv model available?
2.how to restrict amp (in another word stop electron from negative excitor move to very very high positive exciter)?if rise KV range then can have a spark between excitor pass through the water    

thanks all friends
geenee
RE: Electrical Polarization Process
« Reply #34, on April 12th, 2012, 07:33 PM »Last edited on April 13th, 2012, 03:24 AM by geenee
REF EPP's image  i attached

Notice

-amps meter up to 100 amps??? mean it uses a huge of amps?

-EPP uses only pulse freq.gate freq is another version(Electron Extraction Process from Hydrogen Fracturing Process)

-EPP has 2 versions( EPP(variac) and Crossover EPP(motor and alternator))

this image is first EPP

i think EPP not much gas enough. meyer upgraded to HFC because Electron Extraction Process is the key to kill liberate electron from Oxygen and Oxygen go to unstable state unable to bond with Hydrogen

Do u think the same?




~Russ

RE: Electrical Polarization Process
« Reply #35, on April 12th, 2012, 10:59 PM »
Quote from geenee on April 12th, 2012, 07:33 PM
REF EPP's image  i attached

Notice

-amps meter up to 100 amps??? mean it uses a huge of amps?

-EPP uses only pulse freq.gate freq is another version(Electron Extraction Process)

-EPP has 2 versions( EPP(variac) and Crossover EPP(motor and alternator))

this image is first EPP

i think EPP not much gas enough. meyer upgraded to EEP because Electron Extraction Process is the key to kill liberate electron from Oxygen and Oxygen go to unstable state unable to bond with Hydrogen

Do u think the same?
i can agree to what your saying! yes. ~Russ

geenee

RE: Electrical Polarization Process
« Reply #36, on April 14th, 2012, 03:10 AM »Last edited on April 16th, 2012, 08:32 PM by geenee
Thanks Russ

Just 50 cents i have a little knowledge.
Something i misunderstand. i need all friend to suggest me.

i attend about electron work.i think electronic education teach wrong understanding to student like "battery positive side electric go to light and go to negative side of battery" (exam this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gvJzrjwjds) this wrong cause free electron(from high negative ion) go to high positive ion / electron energize electricity. The right word is "negative side battery to positive side battery" positive ion is  
atom like oxygen have 8 proton but have electron less than proton(8) like 7 6 5 4 3 2 this positive ion. proton cant move because is big. only electron move(this exam about metal like copper iron).  

Something like that make student misunderstand and misunderstand all about relation knowledge.

All explain things that go to one point to understand Electrical Polarization Process

if you have very very high positive side then you have very very high push away positive ion and very very high attach negative ion BUT very high negative side(high electron side) can't attach proton(proton very bigger than electron)  just positive side is important

but positive side induction opposite side to have very very much electron act like negative side and attach positive ion from water bath. negative side can neutral by lose electron easily cause electron is smallest.

this knowledge conclude : to make very very high positive side why??
- upper reason
how???
- high voltage cause high positive atom which lose many electrons(high positive ion or high positive electrostatic) this stan use LC circuit to make infinity voltage
how restrict amps???cause high volt is high electron move very fast cause high Power consumption(Watts)
- i dont know???????

i know just...... to make high positive side
i think diode(why stan use diode very high amps (100+amps) cause front side of diode(between diode and secondary coil) have many electron try to back positive side(after diode to positive exciter)) is the key to stop electron back positive side cause after diode still have high positive atom(positive electrostatic)when gate time(power off) and next power on it can add very very high positive continue all the time(resonant=modulate 2+ waves) and after diode is very very very high positive by resonant and diode cause high positive electrostatic.This positive side is key to elongate far enough to break bond and hydrogen have unstable state and lose electron by to very high positive side.same the oxygen attach positive side lose electron to very high positive side after that oxygen go to neutral or positive then positive side push away oxygen out.

this way to know way use thin copper wire cause High Voltage. why low current???if same power like v=12 i=1 p=12w if 12w use 20000 volts amps=0.0006 amps it never require very big copper wire.why use ss430fr??? it hard to melt than copper.i think this just 50 cent . do u think?

exam about high volt low current and low volt high current  u think like car and road
high volt like super fast car /low volt is slow car
the same rule is "transport 10 cars to destination vary number of lane .how to finish the same time?"
10 fast cars use 1 lane(low amps thin wire) exam this finish in 1 hour
10 slow car use 10 lane(high amps big wire)finish in 1 hour too
electron is a car then high volt ->electron fast use thin wire/low volt ->electron slow use big wire    

sorry about language i'm from Thailand
thanks all friend

geenee


 


Gunther Rattay

RE: Electrical Polarization Process
« Reply #37, on April 14th, 2012, 10:43 AM »
@webmug
that's not the reason. simulation always needs a (fictive) GND to make the calculations. that's not too bad.
bad is that there is no fitting simulation model for the water capacitor and no model for the VIC.
but there is hope: once you have figured out the operational behavior you can add a working model.
there is no way to go but by experiments ...

Webmug

RE: Electrical Polarization Process
« Reply #38, on April 14th, 2012, 11:09 AM »
Quote from bussi04 on April 14th, 2012, 10:43 AM
@webmug
that's not the reason. simulation always needs a (fictive) GND to make the calculations. that's not too bad.
bad is that there is no fitting simulation model for the water capacitor and no model for the VIC.
but there is hope: once you have figured out the operational behavior you can add a working model.
there is no way to go but by experiments ...
Yes, experiments are the way.

What I think: (read from here to the last post, I have posted a scope shot)
http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=170&pid=3818#pid3818

Best thing I can think of how to simulate it, is the attached circuit model from Stan and couple the magnetic core to the inductors.

Br,
Webmug


geenee

RE: Electrical Polarization Process
« Reply #39, on April 19th, 2012, 01:18 AM »Last edited on April 19th, 2012, 02:22 AM by geenee
to webmug

i test simulation in multisim 10 and 11

on matrix circuit(webmug's pic) to test by youself

i think it like step charging diagram from meyer

thanks

geenee

~Russ

RE: Electrical Polarization Process
« Reply #40, on April 24th, 2012, 03:57 AM »
Quote from securesupplies on April 21st, 2012, 02:12 PM
please comment on this one so we know if correct for this section.
all of those are diagrams are for the injector...

~Russ

Badger

RE: Electrical Polarization Process
« Reply #41, on April 24th, 2012, 08:51 AM »
Quote from pha3z on March 7th, 2012, 01:13 PM
There is an ambiguation in Meyer's documentation which bothers me.  He repeatedly claims that he is causing the water molecules to resonate but also utilizing circuit resonance.  I am no physicist but I do NOT believe that water molecules resonate in the Khz range.  I find that extremely bizarre.  I would expect water molecules to resonate in Mhz at least (and probably Ghz or Tetrahz) range.  Given that consideration, I will point out the fact that the transient energy between spikes is rich in high frequency harmonics and these harmonics could plausibly induce resonance at extremely higher frequencies than what the fundamental pulses are occuring at.

Now I am only making this theoretical explanation based on all the study I've done and also on the disbelief that water will actually resonate at such low frequencies as used in the VIC.  I could be entirely wrong.  I'm not even a WFC experimenter.  I'm a Tesla experimentor.  But if my theory is true, then its possible that higher gas yields could be obtained by capacitor discharges instead of BEMF coil collapsing.  BEMF Coil collapses won't happen any faster than the coil allows the collapse to occur.  Since capacitors can discharge their energy WAY faster than a coil, you will find much sharper transients with much denser energy explosions.  This would require circuit modification though, and might even turn out to be less productive since it could be harder to engineer.  But Tesla was a master at capacitor discharges.  Look at his patent for Electrical Igntiter - No 609,250.

Another possibility is that the low frequency is inducing a very high order harmonic resonance in the water molecule

Has anyone else got some kind of explanation for Meyer's ambiguation with such low frequency circuits supposedly inducing resonance of water molecule?  Does a water molecule really resonate at such low frequency?.

- Jim
I'm new here and just learning, but I too am wondering about the resonant frequency of water.  The first thing that came to mind, for me, is microwave ovens, which operate at around 2.4 GHz, but I haven't found anyone using a pulse frequency anywhere near that.  Watching that SM video showing his scanning device, you could hear most of the range of the scan, so that's maxing out around 18K?  I read you can still resonate molecules at 1/2, 1/4, 1/8th the natural frequency, so maybe that it the goal to keep the frequency lower to save on losses.
???

geenee

RE: Electrical Polarization Process
« Reply #42, on April 25th, 2012, 11:59 AM »Last edited on April 25th, 2012, 01:15 PM by geenee
i thinks resonant is best performance on input volts(highest at that volts)

all volts(high or low volts) have resonant but not mean high LPM output

5volt has resonant (if resonant it has best performance at 5 volts)

30KV has resonant too

but high electromagnetic field or high electrostatic force can make HIGH LPM HHO

how to make high electromagnetic force or field ? HV only /resonant is the way to best performance at that volts

how much volts to high electromagnetic force?
100KV or 1MV ?? i dont know because i'm not success in HV .when you have power supply 10kv and put in to water voltage across water will drop to less than that like i test 800V volts across water drop to 0.3volts

resonant = best performance at that volts

key is high volts 30KV or 100KV or 1MV

just 50 cent

thanks geenee
RE: Electrical Polarization Process
« Reply #43, on April 25th, 2012, 01:10 PM »Last edited on April 25th, 2012, 01:16 PM by geenee
i think it is not necessary for resonant

 nearly resonant it can work if it has HV enough

thanks geenee

Webmug

RE: Electrical Polarization Process
« Reply #44, on April 25th, 2012, 01:38 PM »
Hi,

Yes resonance must be maintained but when we connect high voltage to the WFC, voltage will drop to 1-2V (current flow).
What is needed is to restrict current flow through the WFC POS NEG exciters.
This is where the chokes come into play, restricting current with the help of coils magnetic field.

This is theory, of course :cool:

Br,
Webmug

andy

RE: Electrical Polarization Process
« Reply #45, on May 28th, 2012, 08:35 AM »
Quote from kenterprise on May 22nd, 2012, 01:20 AM
Hi, everyone!
I'm new on this forum but on others I posted about protolysis, electrical polarization of water.
2H2O - voltage = H3O+ and OH-.
This happen if not use an electrolyte and is no ionic current flow.
Water protolysis, ionization. No current, only voltage, low power ( considering inherent looses ).
Water electrolysis mean flow of electrons, current, power consumption.
Considering that I designed and build several prototypes of a ordinary series electrolytic cells  - so call dry cell HHO -  but add a second anode in the re-circulation tank.
This second anode form a large capacitor ( distance to ground is large enough to confer a resistance even in case of electrolyte ).
The cells now are filled with OH- instead of H2O and the tank with H3O+.
The capacitor discharge to cells ( reducing the power supply current  ) and the working liquid have larger Oxy-Reduction potential.
That mean more gas at low current.
I not studied Meyers work in details since I think is  complicated - perhaps  in order to encode  the information's - but the principle is the same.
Looks like not not need extreme voltage, precise frequencies range ...is all about the  system design and not a 'magic frequency".
Indeed a switch between the anodes will charge the capacitor and then discharge it on OH - rich and very low current will be required to produce more Hydrogen than -apparently- Faraday predicted.
Beside, that gas is not the fuel and can't be used alone on close loop engine without further modifications or settings.
Nitrogen is required to make the mixture a fuel as well. Flammability, burning speed, expansion that create the pressure to push the piston etc.
But I think that is the way: proto-electrolysis as sequences of processes to release enough Hydrogen from water to sustain a ICE with water as fuel.
HI kenterprise
Thank for sharing your results.
Can You post schematic of the circuit and how You connected  and drive the switch between the anodes? Can you give information where you posted about protolysis?
Good work!!
thank
andy


sniperam

RE: Electrical Polarization Process
« Reply #46, on May 28th, 2012, 05:38 PM »Last edited on May 28th, 2012, 05:46 PM by sniperam
Hello everyone,
 
It's my first post here but I had been working in HHO for 2 years. After many tries that failed I understand a lot of things in the electrical field by the way I am a mechanical engineer! I attached the pic of my wfc. Here are my constatation:
 
To have a high voltage in the wfc we have to restric the current. Indeed the tubes sould be insulated. The exterior of the inner tube should be covered with a dielectric (for example white coating likes Ravii).Thus the current has no choice but to pass among the gap. In other words, we want to create an electric arc between the tubes.  
Look at this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=getKcN4tfwk
Notice the first 5 sec and 14 to 21 sec (HHO Bubble??? or Hot Water???)
 
SnipeRam
RE: Electrical Polarization Process
« Reply #47, on May 29th, 2012, 09:13 AM »Last edited on May 29th, 2012, 09:15 AM by sniperam
Hello

Everyone should read this article: Here ;)

Sniperam

securesupplies

RE: Electrical Polarization Process
« Reply #48, on May 29th, 2012, 10:54 PM »
thank you nice post

~Russ

RE: Electrical Polarization Process
« Reply #49, on May 30th, 2012, 03:25 AM »
Quote from sniperam on May 29th, 2012, 09:13 AM
Hello

Everyone should read this article: Here ;)

Sniperam
very interesting.

attached PDF in case link got broke: