research information sharing

resonance1

Re: research information sharing
« Reply #200, on December 16th, 2015, 12:08 PM »
I can't help you understand Stephens graph brettly, I'm not familiar with the article its taken from,

I'm still trying to decipher Stan's tech brief, its not that its particularly complicated its how its presented that I'm having trouble with,

he talks about series lc resonance and gives the equation but a series lc circuit @ resonance acts as a dead short with maximum current not an open circuit with minimum current,
he also says capacitive reactance of the cell should be smaller than the inductive reactance to minimise current flow which implies avoiding series lc resonance,
if he is talking parallel resonance of the cell & total inductance of the 3 secondary coils, or choke self resonance it would make more sense to me.

Matt Watts

Re: research information sharing
« Reply #201, on December 16th, 2015, 12:54 PM »
Quote from resonance1 on December 16th, 2015, 12:08 PM
he talks about series lc resonance and gives the equation but a series lc circuit @ resonance acts as a dead short with maximum current not an open circuit with minimum current, ...
What happens when you pulse a signal down a dead shorted transmission line?

Hint:   Timing is everything.   ;)

resonance1

Re: research information sharing
« Reply #202, on December 16th, 2015, 02:27 PM »
That depends on its electrical length, with correct adjustment of length shorted lines can act as inductors or capacitors.



brettly

Re: research information sharing
« Reply #205, on December 17th, 2015, 02:57 AM »
thats a very interesting video, another video of same person is also very informative and relevant:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Il_eju4D_TM

Using 11.3% vel factor: gives 1.34inches/ns as speed of electrical wave in water.

I'm confused about Matts question, but if you look at the two coils of stans as a transmission line with the water as the end of line resistor, is that what Matt means? If that is whats meant, i'm stil not sure if you would want the water inductance to match the coils inductance, or whether you would want a reflection? I'm confused.

Matt Watts

Re: research information sharing
« Reply #206, on December 17th, 2015, 09:57 AM »Last edited on December 17th, 2015, 01:52 PM
What do we know about a typical transmission line?

Both wires are the same length right.

Suppose both wires were not the same length.  Would you not get an endless cycling of reflections leading to a charge imbalance?  Especially if you have a component defined as a "blocking diode" placed in this circuit.  Think about it for a moment.  Electricity only moves so fast; it takes a certain amount of time to propagate down the wire (or choke).  If one side has a shorter length, it always sees the reflection before the other side, so it sees the charge potential before the other side does.  It also starts reflecting before the longer side does.  So basically, the system is always out of balance; there is no way the longer side can catch up.  If one nanosecond equates to about 11.8 inches of wire with a 100% velocity factor, it doesn't take very much time (though a lot of cycles) to create a massive charge imbalance.  The charge on the short side just keeps building and building while the long side lags behind, becomes essentially more and more negative.  All of this is completely engineerable by choosing the right lengths of wire so the staggering adds to the voltage change at each cycle, each reflection.

Just a side note:  I really think this is predominately what happens in a tesla coil too, the difference is we don't see one of the wires because that wire is the conductor through the air and is much shorter than the coil of wire on the secondary.

Next, Ronnie gave us a HUGE clue.  The water cell after running for a while will zap the crap out of you if you stick your hand in it.  So obviously its voltage potential is much different than the voltage potential of your feet, of earth.  We all assumed the high voltage was between the plates or the tubes--bad assumption.  The high voltage potential exists between the cell and the environment around it.  Does this condition give you a dead short?  No, sure doesn't.  You could juice that mother up until you have lightning shooting out of it if you wanted to.  The final effect is just what we need though--we need the water molecules pulled out of shape until just the tiniest of pulses make them rip apart and the little signal reflections connected to the tubes will do just that, do it in just the right place and with just the right sized impulse.  Make note of why Stan uses tube cells instead of plates--the outer of which acts like a shield to the environment.  Both tubes and the water have high charge; if we change the charge potential of the inner tube, BANG we initiate the reaction and all that charge around it collapses upon the water cracking the molecules instantly, with no possible way for them to return to their normal liquid state.

Another BIG clue Ronnie gave us:  The transformer self destructing.  If you have a large voltage potential between the transformer and earth and it's not well insulated, you're going to get arching and this arching will kill a transformer in nothing flat.  His transformer didn't die due to overloading it with too many amps--I'm pretty sure his power source is amp restricted and couldn't smoke the wires by itself.  It died because the high voltage he created in the cell found a way back to ground via the transformer.

The take home here is Stan's circuit is a compound circuit.  It is doing two things in one device.  I'd bet his early versions kept them separated.  First, he is raising the voltage of the entire cell well above ground potential.  Second, he is creating a condition between the plates to initiate the splitting of the water molecule.  He has done this in a slick way so the second function rides nicely upon the first function.  Got to hand it to him, this is quite a feat.


I don't know the answer by the way--Ronnie hasn't told me anything he hasn't told all the rest of you guys.  I've been working on other projects that appear to use the same technique and just this morning the light came on for me.

nav

Re: research information sharing
« Reply #207, on December 18th, 2015, 05:13 AM »
Matt wrote
Quote
Think about it for a moment.  Electricity only moves so fast; it takes a certain amount of time to propagate down the wire (or choke).  If one side has a shorter length, it always sees the reflection before the other side, so it sees the charge potential before the other side does.  It also starts reflecting before the longer side does.  So basically, the system is always out of balance; there is no way the longer side can catch up.  If one nanosecond equates to about 11.8 inches of wire with a 100% velocity factor, it doesn't take very much time (though a lot of cycles) to create a massive charge imbalance.  The charge on the short side just keeps building and building while the long side lags behind, becomes essentially more and more negative.  All of this is completely engineerable by choosing the right lengths of wire so the staggering adds to the voltage change at each cycle, each reflection.
In a transmission line you have a series resonant network and an oscillator, it operates by allowing current and voltage out of phase on a balanced antenna. If you wind a choke on the feed line it will choke out current that is operating at the impedance value of that choke. In Stans network if we assume the secondary is the oscillator of a transmission line there are two major differences, firstly the transmission line current is not present so it cannot transmit and secondly there is no way the antenna or the tubes can be resonant with the frequency and it has nothing to do with it.

Firstly lets deal with the chokes. Stan uses bifilar chokes and he uses them for a reason, the reason being is that it is impossible for a choke to work on a core if they are all wound in the same direction unless they are bifilar. Consider this: The primary creates a magnetic field in the core and that field is transfered to the secondary and both the chokes, the primary is switched off and if all the other 3 coles are wound in the same direction then they will collapse their magnetic field into the circuit, Tesla discovered however if you wind them bifilar in a certain way then the collapse of that field is an opposing force and current is static almost like a dead short. The result is heat in the windings and voltage will leave the coil 90 degrees out of phase. How do I know Stan was doing this? Take a look at Stans Vic below and you will see melted tape on top of the secondary windings. This effect also works in reverse, if you heat up a pancake coil it will produce voltage. You can either have each choke bifilar or the secondary bifilar and it causes differential mode current to travel in opposing directions and collapse the magnetic field.
Stan always said that he never broke any of the laws of physics, if you create a magnetic field and induction fields in coils then you cannot destroy that energy, you can make one field oppose another field and have cancellation but the energy cannot be destroyed so it escapes as heat.
The second part I was refering to was the resonant frequency and the resonance of the circuit.
What does Stan mean by resonance? He means that when the primary is switched off the chokes are self resonant and will try to ring or vibrate at their own natural frequency and that creates an impedance network. Where ever the voltage is going to, if it see's an higher or lower impedance it becomes a bottle neck to what the coils are trying to do. So the coils are reacting to what ever is in their way in the circuit and if the reactance of the circuit is different from how the coils wish to react then they cannot be self resonant and will only resonate at what the bottle neck in the system will allow.
Because it is no longer a transmission line we do not need an antenna but we need a dummy load that has the same reactance as the coils that will except the energy or voltage at the same rate of knots.
But Tesla remarks about something else, we are no longer dealing with linear inductance in the reactance value of the coil windings, we are dealing with electrostatic inductance and reactance so a coil acts like a tube not a coiled up piece of wire anymore. Any resultant antenna or dummy load must be calculated with the width of the coil not the length of the wire inside it. This is why Tesla's longtitudinal antenna were small, they delt with the width of his coils. When you build your tubes, if you have 30 gauge wire on your coils and the coil is 75mm wide consider 4 layers on the bobbin as 1 tube that is 75mm wide and that tube is 4 layers thick or 1mm thick. Its diameter is the same diameter as it is on the bobbin.
It takes a lot of maths but it works out like thus:
3 coils of 334 meters of 30 gauge wire on each coil will result in a tube set of copper or aluminium of 6 sets of tubes with the inner 16mm and the outer 22mm both of which have a thickness of 0.9mm and a length of 95mm.
So you have 6 inner tubes 95mm long, 6 outer tubes 95mm long, inner is 16mm diameter and outer 22mm diameter and thickness 0.9mm. Wired in series like the picture below so that the capacitance is distributed evenly. If you work with stainless steel then you need to work out the difference between copper and SS and it means longer tubes. There is also a picture of how Tesla shows us how to wind bifilars.

nav

Re: research information sharing
« Reply #208, on December 18th, 2015, 08:01 AM »
Here is a picture I did showing the motion of the voltage field and how to work tube sizes out in relation to coil size and also a little about electrostatic reactance.

nav

Re: research information sharing
« Reply #209, on December 19th, 2015, 01:01 AM »Last edited on December 19th, 2015, 09:48 AM by Lynx
The green series dead short is capacitive BTW and not a wire.
Do your own research and testing, read Tesla and what he has to say about electrostatic inductance where a magnetic field is cancelled in bifilar coils.








brettly

Re: research information sharing
« Reply #216, on January 4th, 2016, 04:57 PM »
new vid from Valentin Petkov ( valyonpz)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKVt9QIT_CE  "
controversial in that he is claiming no freq doubling on the wfc? I thought it was well established the freq doubling.
He includes his latest circuit, using what was thought to be water heater circuit/coil and including the bridge rectifier. Do you guys think he is on he right track? Its quite a novel idea to incorporate the water heating components into the circuit, but is he on heading in the right direction?

firepinto

Re: research information sharing
« Reply #217, on January 4th, 2016, 07:17 PM »
 I think he is mixing things together.  The heat sink card he shows with the full wave bridge rectifier is for the Electrostatic Filter.  The H bridge he has made would probably replicate the missing driver for the filter fairly well though.  The static filter driver is controlled by a very small PLL circuit on the bottom edge of the Gas Feedback card.  It does not need a VIC card, only a place to mount the heat sink, which occupies a VIC card slot.  The H bridge type circuit was most likely mounted to that heat sink. 

I think the Static filter is the most basic variant of Stan's process and should be worked on.

firepinto

Re: research information sharing
« Reply #218, on January 4th, 2016, 07:24 PM »
Another thing to note in his video, at 2:04, he shows a schematic with a bridge rectifier with an INPUT of 110 VAC (house power).  To me this card is taking the coil output and rectifying it to supply the filter with DC pulses.

brettly

Re: research information sharing
« Reply #219, on January 5th, 2016, 06:29 PM »
thnx, so far the device pictured has been said to be for the water heater/resonator, also as a voltage regulator for alternator/battery and now as part of static filter. How to definitively decide exactly what is the purpose of this component?

firepinto

Re: research information sharing
« Reply #220, on January 5th, 2016, 07:40 PM »
I think only Steve Meyer could definitively answer that question.  This was just what I have decided it is for from studying the photos.  The large resistors are in series with the primary which I think has very low resistance.  Having a resistor on each switch will also avoid the short circuit that H bridges are capable of doing. 

brettly

Re: research information sharing
« Reply #221, on January 7th, 2016, 06:54 AM »
I'm still leaning towards the coil/fets/rectifier above being part of the water heater but really not sure.
here's something a bit off topic relating to radar:
Researching stans work leads to all sorts of areas in radar area, I was led to the magnetron developed by Sir Mark Oliphants group ( just in case anyone is interested he was an Australian).
Some basic reading showed that the magnetron ( originally developed for radar), is in a way a fairly simple device. Electrons are led to jump across an air gap ( by forcing them into a circular motion with magnets whilst they travel within a metal shape). Once the electrons go across the air gap they emit microwavelength radiation.
This is directly linked back to the discovery of radio waves given off across a high voltage spark gap, and other devices using a spark gap ( including teslas devices).
That really surprised me, very much, I was expecting a magnetron to be an extremely complex device.
So if the magnetron was filled with air, you would basically have alot of sparking across an air gap creating the microwaves, but..I assume the magnetron is in a vacuum? So I guess when a magnetron is working there is some sort of plasma jumping across the gap? or at least a plasma of sorts being visible when the magnetron is working.
Apparently the length of the waves emitting are determined by the speed at which the electrons jump across the gap ( which is determined by the voltage being applied to the electrons).
This doesn't directly relate to stans work, but I am wondering exactly what you would see if you could see the electrons jumping across the gap when a microwave oven is running ( which use a magnetron to create the microwaves).
If anyone were to see a glow within a working wfc tube  ( or injector wfc), that would suggest some sort of plasma being created ( ?), which might suggest there are other wavelengths being produced across the wfc capacitor ( has there been any reports of glows being visible in wfc tubes?)

brettly

Re: research information sharing
« Reply #222, on January 7th, 2016, 07:11 AM »
so just to answer some of my own questions
 I checked and a magnetron does operate under a vacuum.
, I looked at this video


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDdAbFP7TtE

Which shows very simple method to replicate a simple magnetron like device.
Interestingly a plasma can be created at quite low voltages ( less than 1kv)( in a vacuum), in the video the voltage drops down to around 300v when magnet is introduced to the electron beam.
Absolutely no idea if this has any relevance to stans work, but is it possible there are radio or microwaves being produced by the movement of electrons within the wfc? I realise minimising electron flow is a big part of stans work, but as the video above shows you only need current in the milliamp range, well, within a vacuum anyhow. Very different in the case of water.

brettly

Re: research information sharing
« Reply #223, on January 7th, 2016, 08:05 AM »
Once again way off topic:
It appears the electrical wavelengths of stans oscillators are way way too long to be tuned into the wfc tubes, but here is an interesting article that gives some ideas on how a short 'antenna' might be able to absorb long wavelengths by "intentionally impressing an artificial AC field upon the receiving antenna".
http://amasci.com/tesla/tesceive.html#dnn

Then again the author of the article does seem a bit 'out there'.



brettly

Re: research information sharing
« Reply #224, on January 7th, 2016, 10:21 AM »
I've been looking into history/discovery of em waves from spark gaps. I has assumed that Hertz was the discoverer, but after some research it appears he 'discovered' the effect when demonstrating some induction coils called Knochenhauer spirals or Liess spirals to some students. These are two flat  spiral wound coils ( possibly bifilar) in which you put a current into one coil and a spark occurs at the other coil without there being any physical contact between the coils ( one on top of the other). It appears the inventor of these devices ( Liess) had already discovered the effect. Anyway this has a novel link to stans work.
I would assume Tesla had studied or even had his own Liess spirals, he would certainly have been familiar with it. And it also appears they were bifilar wound ( at least some articles say they were wound with two wires....but not much detail on what that meant ).
So teslas bifilar coils also appear to be predated by the Liess spirals, and then we come to stans
work which also uses bifilar wound inductors. I thought that was interesting.