just wondering why this vid is not here yet

enjoy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWhQusfWuac&feature=youtu.be
Dan

Quote from securesupplies on November 10th, 2013, 06:46 AM

just wondering why this vid is not here yet

enjoy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWhQusfWuac&feature=youtu.be
Dan

Actually Russ spoke to this guys, but i guess he never got back...

I did take a close look at Ed's VIC while at GlobalBEM--it's kind of neat how he has included the choke coils inside the center of the transformer.  Without knowing it, Ed has likely created a device very similar to Thane Heins' BiTT.  If so, it explains why he had to dip the whole thing in oil to keep it cool, because the BiTT can potentially generate a lot of current in trade for high voltage on the input.  In addition, having the two coils reminds me a lot of the Frank Sweet VTA.

[attachment=4591]

Quote from Matt Watts on November 10th, 2013, 11:32 PM

I did take a close look at Ed's VIC while at GlobalBEM--it's kind of neat how he has included the choke coils inside the center of the transformer.  Without knowing it, Ed has likely created a device very similar to Thane Heins' BiTT.  If so, it explains why he had to dip the whole thing in oil to keep it cool, because the BiTT can potentially generate a lot of current in trade for high voltage on the input.  In addition, having the two coils reminds me a lot of the Frank Sweet VTA.

The transformers are rebuilds of Stanley A. Meyer´s transformer he describes in his documents.

the core shape serves for maximum magnetic coupling between the coils.

the transformer oil for the prototype serves for cooling and protects wire insulation against destruction due to air ionization within the bobbins.

once all parameters are opimized transformer will be epoxied instead of being immersed into transformer oil.

Full story of the Boulder event:

•    http://aetherforce.com/the-global-breakthrough-energy-conference-through-the-eyes-of-true-green-solutions-owner-edward-mitchell/
•   http://aetherforce.com/the-long-road-to-learning-how-meyer-made-use-of-water-as-a-source-of-fuel/
•   http://aetherforce.com/inventors-diary-failing-to-learn-making-good-use-of-the-scientific-method/


Russ also made a video of that exact configuration documenting lots of details.

Quote from bussi04 on November 11th, 2013, 02:26 AM

Quote from Matt Watts on November 10th, 2013, 11:32 PM

I did take a close look at Ed's VIC while at GlobalBEM--it's kind of neat how he has included the choke coils inside the center of the transformer.  Without knowing it, Ed has likely created a device very similar to Thane Heins' BiTT.  If so, it explains why he had to dip the whole thing in oil to keep it cool, because the BiTT can potentially generate a lot of current in trade for high voltage on the input.  In addition, having the two coils reminds me a lot of the Frank Sweet VTA.

The transformers are rebuilds of Stanley A. Meyer´s transformer he describes in his documents.

the core shape serves for maximum magnetic coupling between the coils.

the transformer oil for the prototype serves for cooling and protects wire insulation against destruction due to air ionization within the bobbins.

once all parameters are opimized transformer will be epoxied instead of being immersed into transformer oil.

Full story of the Boulder event:

•    http://aetherforce.com/the-global-breakthrough-energy-conference-through-the-eyes-of-true-green-solutions-owner-edward-mitchell/
•   http://aetherforce.com/the-long-road-to-learning-how-meyer-made-use-of-water-as-a-source-of-fuel/
•   http://aetherforce.com/inventors-diary-failing-to-learn-making-good-use-of-the-scientific-method/


Russ also made a video of that exact configuration documenting lots of details.

can rus post here pics and info so linked
Dan

OK guys, just wondering... why isn`t this thread booming by now. Looks to me, like mr. Mitchell cracked the mystery of how the Stanley Meyer WFC is in fact working. As much as i understand, the problem is to design the primary and secondary coils to be tuned to the excitor array. My suggestion is to start with a design for coils, which would be most practical and reproducable without dipping into oil, and adjust the exitor array to that coils. Come on guys, so many smart people on this forum, should be no problem to reproduce now that we know how to do it. Regarding the production of components i can post prices which i will receive after we have some blueprints.

Quote from Zweistein on November 12th, 2013, 10:47 PM

OK guys, just wondering... why isn`t this thread booming by now.

Well, because as far as I can tell, it doesn't work.  Ed had a list of excuses as long as his arm why he couldn't get gas production there at his booth.  Not saying his heart isn't in the right place or anything, I'm only saying he knew about the Boulder event far enough in advance to bring a functioning unit if he had one.  Clearly the mystery isn't solved.

Quote from Matt Watts on November 12th, 2013, 10:55 PM

Quote from Zweistein on November 12th, 2013, 10:47 PM

OK guys, just wondering... why isn`t this thread booming by now.

Well, because as far as I can tell, it doesn't work.  Ed had a list of excuses as long as his arm why he couldn't get gas production there at his booth.  Not saying his heart isn't in the right place or anything, I'm only saying he knew about the Boulder event far enough in advance to bring a functioning unit if he had one.  Clearly the mystery isn't solved.

I agree with you about his excuses... but still as much as i read the threats, he was able to achieve the charge of WFC without braking down. Did anybody else achieve that by now?

Quote from Zweistein on November 12th, 2013, 11:35 PM

I agree with you about his excuses... but still as much as i read the threats, he was able to achieve the charge of WFC without braking down. Did anybody else achieve that by now?

gpssonar did years back, I'm not sure how he is doing with his new model though.  Sure looks nice and precision made; I'd like to see it push some bubbles.  I think he's pretty close if he hasn't succeeded already.

Ed achived hv only by placing cells in series,and pump the primary with 100v and some amps....Cells in series doesnt produce much hho the more you add the prod drops...If he places cells in paralel he will get a little production but also a masive voltage drop from3kv to ~50v...

Quote from adys15 on November 13th, 2013, 05:32 AM

Ed achived hv only by placing cells in series,and pump the primary with 100v and some amps....Cells in series doesnt produce much hho the more you add the prod drops...If he places cells in paralel he will get a little production but also a masive voltage drop from3kv to ~50v...

Hm... connecting cells in series looks to me as the right way. Looking at the pictures from Stanley Meyer, the cells are also conected in series:

http://rwgresearch.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/P15.jpg

Not to be smart for nothing, Ed said the system is working he just didn`t have a second working transformer. You guys who live close to him should contact him and arrange a meeting. Fill your cars with all possibile equipment (transformers, measuring devices,...) and test the thing. If he`s right we should all help him as much as we can, guess it`s in all our interest. On the other hand, if it`s a fraud we can finish this thread. But he just doesn`t seem like that kind of guy to me.

 series cells=low production

Quote from Matt Watts on November 12th, 2013, 10:55 PM

Quote from Zweistein on November 12th, 2013, 10:47 PM

OK guys, just wondering... why isn`t this thread booming by now.

Well, because as far as I can tell, it doesn't work.  Ed had a list of excuses as long as his arm why he couldn't get gas production there at his booth.  Not saying his heart isn't in the right place or anything, I'm only saying he knew about the Boulder event far enough in advance to bring a functioning unit if he had one.  Clearly the mystery isn't solved.

I have to agree with you on this Matt, far to many excuses. But he's trying though, think Bussi has a winner though.:D

Quote from Jeff Nading on November 13th, 2013, 02:45 PM

I have to agree with you on this Matt, far to many excuses. But he's trying though, think Bussi has a winner though.:D

PulseFire, my SuperPulseGen or Bussi's PGen will all do the pulsing job; now we just need a inductor design that will show us something.

Quote from Matt Watts on November 13th, 2013, 03:30 PM

Quote from Jeff Nading on November 13th, 2013, 02:45 PM

I have to agree with you on this Matt, far to many excuses. But he's trying though, think Bussi has a winner though.:D

PulseFire, my SuperPulseGen or Bussi's PGen will all do the pulsing job; now we just need a inductor design that will show us something.

Inductor designs are available. what it needs now is inductor configurations giving real world data about operation dynamics to be able to make some simulations to optimize inductor configurations.

to summarize the boulder vic at work: it creates voltages at 3 kv (to about 5 kv) peak to peak with oscillation dynamics different from pulse input. this oscillation dynamics shows up because of capacitive reactance in between the bobbins and bifiliar windings design.

this vic can´t be calculated by discussion but by step by step calculate, build, test, redesign process. iterative approach.
the vic shown at boulder is 7th generation build or so.

up to now no professional transformer expert has shown up to simulate and calculate this complex device. whom are you waiting for?

very early ones Ed built only produced voltages in the 100V´s range.

how to get experienced in insulation, vibration, ionisation, back emf, mechanical issues without doing the first step into practical experiments? who wants to invest $ in the 1000s range as we did to make a major step into building that device? anybody else interested to take the risk? yes/no?
who is interested? please give feedback here or PM me.

existing vic from boulder is described in detail in the internet and serves as a template for rebuild, design optimization and experiments.

why always restart from scratch? restarting from scratch ends up in endless discussions.

how about 1 year old approaches to vic design described here in the forum?

cores, wires, 3d printer bobbins .. how about experiments and results?

as far as I can see the preliminary results in this forum are "we have built it and shown that it doesn´t work ...". that´s no sufficient result in terms of my project approach and professional work.

to my opinion it´s time for results and to leave discussion level ...

Quote from adys15 on November 13th, 2013, 05:32 AM

Ed achived hv only by placing cells in series,and pump the primary with 100v and some amps....Cells in series doesnt produce much hho the more you add the prod drops...If he places cells in paralel he will get a little production but also a masive voltage drop from3kv to ~50v...

getting more than 3 kV for 12 cells in series low amps means ~ 300V for each cell.

that´s 150 times more than used for electrolysis. not too bad ... similar results somewhere here in the forum?

Quote from bussi04 on November 14th, 2013, 12:00 AM

getting more than 3 kV for 12 cells in series low amps means ~ 300V for each cell.

that´s 150 times more than used for electrolysis. not too bad ... similar results somewhere here in the forum?

bussi, with the units you guys are working with, is there any indication the gas production you are getting is something other than Hydroxy, possibly some form of water-cluster gas maybe?

The reason I ask is, I'm becoming more sure every day, Hydroxy is not what we are after and will not effectively power an internal combustion engine, even in larger quantities.  Quantity is not the key; what is the key is a different type of gas.  I suspect this different type of gas cannot be adequately produced, if at all, from brute force methods.  The high voltage system such as yours may however be capable of producing a highly energetic water-cluster gas.  To my knowledge, no one has developed a cell and drive system that has shown to predominately produce a water-cluster gas.  I'm not sure anyone would even recognize it if they are in search of a high production rate.

So yes, I agree we need more testing, tuning, and minor tweaking of the design, but we also need to know exactly what we are searching for--what it is we are trying to optimize.  This is still quite a difficult target to hit when we are shooting in the dark.  When I say, "it don't work", please do not take offense.  What I mean is, we don't know where exactly we are going or how exactly we will get there, but what we have so far isn't what we want.  At this point, it still isn't clear to me that replicating anything would be a wise decision.  If someone can describe a method that reliably produces water-cluster gas and that gas behaves in an engine as we would desire, then we can start the optimization process by replicating that template widespread and zero-in on the ultimate design.  We still have a long way to go before that in my opinion.

getting more than 3 kV for 12 cells in series low amps means ~ 300V for each cell.

that´s 150 times more than used for electrolysis. not too bad ... similar results somewhere here in the forum?[/quote]Bussy like i said those 300v per cell is weak voltage,it shocks a bit but thats all,if i put for example 220v at 1A on one of Ed's tube cells the production would be 150 times more than the almost 0 production that he got with 300v on one tube set.You would say thats a diference in watts,yes it is but also i'm producing something than nothig,and at 1A the water stais cool....
I have done many,many experiments with volts/amps combinations vs gas production believe me,and you always need some amps to get a decent prod.

Quote from Matt Watts on November 14th, 2013, 12:55 AM

bussi, with the units you guys are working with, is there any indication the gas production you are getting is something other than Hydroxy, possibly some form of water-cluster gas maybe?
...

As Meyer describes the high voltage gas production creates single H and O ions. those single atoms are repelling each other not able to recombine within the water. that´s the reason for the BIG bubbles. to get an approval there should be fund raising for a laboratory analysis.

that´s only the first step of ionization to get high power fuel from water. looking at Meyer´s docs (and Ed describes it in his video) there are 3 more stacks of ionization chambers processing the gasious ions from the water atoms until they are mixed with highest ionized O ions from ambient air from the gas processor. inserting laser energy and making use of the electron extraction circuit result in maximum ionized atoms.

it´s all about quality not quantity ...

think about the amount of energy within a single atom if you could convert the atom into energy ...


it´s funny that Meyer wrote it down in detail and made pictures but people reading his docs didn´t get the overall concept ...

how long does it take for an average person to understand airplaine schematics?  it would take weeks and months to grasp their contents and for Meyer´s it only takes days for native speakers ... but never the less that time has to be spent ...

the easiest way for me was to take a look at all pictures without reading the text (later of couse I also read the text. if I got it everyone can do the same :-)


most people can build a paper glider as a proof of Lilienhtals´s concept. but few can build one for passenger transportation ...

Moray King was interested in Ed´s configuration and had a long and serious discussion about technical details.

how does this forum expect to be attractive for professionals from science and industry if all steps of progress are dissed and critizised without alternative?

who believes that this technology can be solved without monetary investment and technological experts´support?

You talk about criticism when you argued with me about those croc clips and any other non sense just to proove me wrong...but hell ya i used pvc pipes to build my vic and Ed used fancy machining and cool loking plexy... oh why criticise that beautifull loking vic that does 0 bubless no?

Quote from adys15 on November 14th, 2013, 02:04 AM

getting more than 3 kV for 12 cells in series low amps means ~ 300V for each cell.

that´s 150 times more than used for electrolysis. not too bad ... similar results somewhere here in the forum?

Bussy like i said those 300v per cell is weak voltage,it shocks a bit but thats all,if i put for example 220v at 1A on one of Ed's tube cells the production would be 150 times more than the almost 0 production that he got with 300v on one tube set.You would say thats a diference in watts,yes it is but also i'm producing something than nothig,and at 1A the water stais cool....
I have done many,many experiments with volts/amps combinations vs gas production believe me,and you always need some amps to get a decent prod.[/quote]as you can see in the video the gas production is intermitting. we took measures in our lab and saw that voltage raises about the wfc, then gas production starts, voltage drops a few hundred volts and wfc recharges for 15 seconds until next gas production starts.

1st question: what´s the ionization voltage for H and O in a water environment?

2nd question: why does wfc discharge during gas production?

3rd question: how can voltage at wfc be stabilized to create continuous gas production.

answering these 3 proceeding questions would be a further milestone for high voltage ionization for using water as fuel.


I think gas production is not a case for belief but a result of chemical and pyhsical dynamics well to be known ...

if I´m correct an ozone generator dealing with high voltage won´t take too much power but can be operated using a household battery :-)

adys15,

the reason why I jumped into the crocodile clip subject was that on Mar 2012 we built a vic, we used crocodile clips and we saw the ionisation effects dropping voltage charge and we knew that those clips don´t withstand voltage above 800V.

we made the experience and so we knew :-) we knew the indicators and those information should support, not critizise.

are you interested in cooperation and peer to peer support or is it all about concurrence and appreciation?

the 2nd would me make too bored to continue my involvement ...

Quote from bussi04 on November 14th, 2013, 02:37 AM

Moray King was interested in Ed´s configuration and had a long and serious discussion about technical details.

I'm sure he was for the same reason I mentioned above.  Because we don't know exactly what the product gas is we are looking for, I think we may have to turn to testing the gas in an actual (power extraction) test fixture, like Russ' Popper.  I say it that way, because even Stan wouldn't have known and like he did with everything else, when he didn't have an exact scientific description at his lips, he made something up (applied his own terminology) for us to figure out.

Quote from adys15 on November 14th, 2013, 02:45 AM

You talk about criticism when you argued with me about those croc clips and any other non sense just to proove me wrong...but hell ya i used pvc pipes to build my vic and Ed used fancy machining and cool loking plexy... oh why criticise that beautifull loking vic that does 0 bubless no?

no critizism from my side - ed transformer does something your´s doesn´t - it ionizes atoms from water. something your´s does not seem to do ...

there is no need to compare apples to oranges and I won´t.

but to my opinion it´s necessary to be exact in detail and to make some differentiation in technical approach.

Quote from Matt Watts on November 14th, 2013, 03:08 AM

Quote from bussi04 on November 14th, 2013, 02:37 AM

Moray King was interested in Ed´s configuration and had a long and serious discussion about technical details.

I'm sure he was for the same reason I mentioned above.  Because we don't know exactly what the product gas is we are looking for, I think we may have to turn to testing the gas in an actual (power extraction) test fixture, like Russ' Popper.  I say it that way, because even Stan wouldn't have known and like he did with everything else, when he didn't have an exact scientific description at his lips, he made something up (applied his own terminology) for us to figure out.

do you know actual costs for such a laboratory test?

I have to Congratulate PGen and Ed for  pushing forward

We all have to be on the same page for + and - it is hard to perfect but every
time each of us tries

 is moves forward better and stronger towards something
more advanced and repeatable photographed and documented if it crashes
it is pretty standard ad due coarse

there are some major advances in culture by using  IC  tech and adjustment,
Every Trial and Failure or success teaches other something good or bad.

I really did like seeing the transformers in oil and connected to pgen
co operate on advances.

Let see your transformers guys let get them rock solid and stable in design
and firm the exact wire and design specs so it dosn't crash

we can get transformer companies to help and lend advice here to .

Stay positive, remember every bad comment fuels defeat

I just spent 2 days in Bangkok one of the most polluted city on the planet
the exhaust from the cars truck and motors bikes is disgusting remember this aid get to you
as well.

We have to make a change Fast

stay on track

Dan

Bussy you can ionize the water all day long, as long as 2 bubles are being produced is useless.

Quote from adys15 on November 14th, 2013, 06:20 AM

Bussy you can ionize the water all day long, as long as 2 bubles are being produced is useless.

=============================================
you might want to consider the steps that are being explained
instead of attacking them .

there is a positive path going on here particulary on the ic chip section

Proton energy  case example

they ionise and saturate the water with energy before it goes into electolyzers

consider that and try it, they make electroyzers which produce
 pure H 100% at highest pressures meaning fast

exceedingly high quality and supply most weather stations for balloon filling
and Circuit board companies for creating forming environment around chips during manufacture they are thing to learn on this thread.

let keep advancing the ideal environment and controllers.

If eds vic setup crashed
as it was saturated with energy there is something to learn about limit and balancing , voltage controllers

Dan