Hi All,
Newbie here to this forum, but long term member at energetic forum and overunity.  Luc's recent posts and videos showing reactive circuits to explain how self-looped systems can run has fired up my imagination.  I decided to introduce myself here because this is where I will be posting.

I am a retired musician, somewhat long in the tooth, I just turned 77.  I live on $850 per month, so I am short on equipment, but I have ideas that I would like to share.  I you like my concepts, please feel free to expand on them.  I have limited energy at this stage of my life.  So, this is my future entry into the Russ self-looped-build-off.

It has to be free of the grid.  It has to be cheap to build.  So, I will use two auto alternators.  The motor driver around 40 amps, the generator around 125 amps in size.  The diodes and regulators will be removed and you now have two 3-phase units joined together at the shafts, similar to roto-verter configuration.  With 12 v input to the rotor winding you can get over 120 volts at speed just as it is.  A cap will be placed across each field winding as in a parallel resonance tuned to 300 to 500 hz.  The rotor has 6N and 6S giving 6 complete cycles each revolution of the shaft.

We can now use smaller caps because of the high hz.  We need to keep the voltage small in the rotor winding, because at parallel resonance the voltage will rise in proportion to the Q of the circuit.  If Q is 50, 5 v in the rotor can  be 250v in the stator.  

A small capacitor is placed to tap into the resonant circuit of each phase.  This cap is connected in series resonance back to the driver unit.  An additional inductor is needed in series to increase the inductance so we can use a small cap here.  This cap size is critical.  We want it small enough to block most of the 300hz from getting through and destroying our parallel resonance, but large enough to pass current at the 300hz series resonance to energize the motor.

The motor is started with a 12 v battery using an RC model controller.  Once up to speed the RC controller can be switched off.  The generator is phased locked looped back to the motor to keep it going.  A small cap can be used to feed the battery.  Lots of variable to play with:  The rotor voltage, the hz maybe between 300 to 500 and the balance of the resonance between serial and parallel.  And, adjust the phase relationship between rotors with an adjustable coupling.

I hope you can follow my explanation.  I see it in my head.  Perhaps I am missing some detail that negates the concept?   Maybe I can draw it out and take of photo of it and post a jpg?  I am not good with draw programs and now I am using a very limited puppy linux.  Will not go back to windows except for my music programs.

Looking forward to a very exciting New Year 2014 for everyone here.

Chris

Quote from tishatang on January 5th, 2014, 01:49 AM

Hi All,
Newbie here to this forum, but long term member at energetic forum and overunity.  Luc's recent posts and videos showing reactive circuits to explain how self-looped systems can run has fired up my imagination.  I decided to introduce myself here because this is where I will be posting.

I am a retired musician, somewhat long in the tooth, I just turned 77.  I live on $850 per month, so I am short on equipment, but I have ideas that I would like to share.  I you like my concepts, please feel free to expand on them.  I have limited energy at this stage of my life.  So, this is my future entry into the Russ self-looped-build-off.

It has to be free of the grid.  It has to be cheap to build.  So, I will use two auto alternators.  The motor driver around 40 amps, the generator around 125 amps in size.  The diodes and regulators will be removed and you now have two 3-phase units joined together at the shafts, similar to roto-verter configuration.  With 12 v input to the rotor winding you can get over 120 volts at speed just as it is.  A cap will be placed across each field winding as in a parallel resonance tuned to 300 to 500 hz.  The rotor has 6N and 6S giving 6 complete cycles each revolution of the shaft.

We can now use smaller caps because of the high hz.  We need to keep the voltage small in the rotor winding, because at parallel resonance the voltage will rise in proportion to the Q of the circuit.  If Q is 50, 5 v in the rotor can  be 250v in the stator.  

A small capacitor is placed to tap into the resonant circuit of each phase.  This cap is connected in series resonance back to the driver unit.  An additional inductor is needed in series to increase the inductance so we can use a small cap here.  This cap size is critical.  We want it small enough to block most of the 300hz from getting through and destroying our parallel resonance, but large enough to pass current at the 300hz series resonance to energize the motor.

The motor is started with a 12 v battery using an RC model controller.  Once up to speed the RC controller can be switched off.  The generator is phased locked looped back to the motor to keep it going.  A small cap can be used to feed the battery.  Lots of variable to play with:  The rotor voltage, the hz maybe between 300 to 500 and the balance of the resonance between serial and parallel.  And, adjust the phase relationship between rotors with an adjustable coupling.

I hope you can follow my explanation.  I see it in my head.  Perhaps I am missing some detail that negates the concept?   Maybe I can draw it out and take of photo of it and post a jpg?  I am not good with draw programs and now I am using a very limited puppy linux.  Will not go back to windows except for my music programs.

Looking forward to a very exciting New Year 2014 for everyone here.

Chris

Thanks Chris for posting, I encourage you to start a build thread, then a discussion thread. In this way your build thread can be easily followed with not other post on it, linked to your discussion thread, this is where you can help others build your devise or others can help you. We have found this really helps when one wants to replicate a devise, thanks and welcome to the forum.:D

This may help confirm Matts simulation effect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr2-qIX9G3U&feature=youtu.be

Luc

Quote from gotoluc on January 5th, 2014, 12:29 PM

This may help confirm Matts simulation effect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr2-qIX9G3U

Okay, that's using batteries in place of the capacitor in my simulation.  And I would expect lead-acid batteries to have a very low internal resistance making the circuit as optimal as possible.  It's also worth noting the artifacts I saw in the simulation appear in the actual test setup on the scope.  They look a little different, but they are clearly there.

So for anyone replicating, I think we need to try this circuit again with actual capacitors, maybe even supercaps if anyone has some of those to test with.  I recall Mark Dansie mentioning the machines he tested using batteries, display what he terms "The Battery Effect".  This effect apparently imposes some sort of surface charge on the plates that essentially ruins the battery.  Very likely what Luc tried with the Lithium Ion batteries is this very effect.

My main interest in switching to DC on the load side was to be able to use polarized capacitors that can be found at much larger values.  There is also one other little thing that can be taken advantage of if someone knows how to do it.  This other thing is the frequency component.  We have 60 Hz on the generator side, but we have 120 Hz on the load side using a full-wave bridge rectifier.  So think about your old low pass filters for a moment.  Suppose we designed a filter that had a frequency cutoff of about 90 Hz.  Power could then get through the filter, into the bridge rectifier and to the load.  But reflected power at 120 Hz could not make it back through the filter to the generator.  This would be in-effect a target for a Lenz Free system, unlike the Delayed Lenz Effect we witnessed earlier.  What I don't know about this filter is if it can be made bidirectional using passive components.

More to think about and try.

Thanks much Luc for getting us this far.

thanks,Luc for proof Matt's circuit.

reactive power can do work and that's real!!!

Matt's circuit is very easy to try or replicate,from Luc's video he use only 5 watts and output that is more than 5 watts from resistor and charged batterys.

about polar capacitor that is very great idea because you can use 2 polar caps and connect them between positive side and positive side then you have double voltage capacity and half capacitance non polar capacitor.

thanks
geenee

Quote from geenee on January 5th, 2014, 08:11 PM

about polar capacitor that is very great idea because you can use 2 polar caps and connect them between positive side and positive side then you have double voltage capacity and half capacitance non polar capacitor.

I think I would try doing that in an explosion resistant box under some serious current flow and see if it really works before I engineer it into a reactive power circuit.  Last thing you would need while experimenting is to get blasted in the face with an electrolytic capacitor breaking loose.  You are already dealing with some dangerous voltages, currents, charged capacitors and strings of wires, no sense making things worse.

If you want to use polarized capacitors, put them after the rectifier diodes and play it safe.  They make polarized and non-polarized capacitors for a reason, not smart to think you can do otherwise.

There, Luc did his safety lecture and now I've done mine.  If all the sudden we no longer see you posting on the forum, we can probably assume you didn't take heed of the recommended procedures.

Quote from gotoluc on January 5th, 2014, 12:29 PM

This may help confirm Matts simulation effect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr2-qIX9G3U&feature=youtu.be

Luc

Interesting Hob over at ou is saying you don't need the resistor at all.

"

Hi Luc,


I just watched your video reactive battery charging. Why the resistor? Since the current through the resistor is not constant the voltage is not either and when the moment the voltage across the resistor is lower than the batteries the batteries are drained and not charged.You don't need the resistor. The high voltage is not seen by the battery, it only sees the current.


To match a cap to a particular battery as to not get too high current do this calculation:


C = Ah/(20 V 2 pi f)


The voltage of the battery is not important as long as it is relative low to V. As an example in my case:


Ah = 24, V = 230, f = 50
C = 24/(20 * 230 * 2 * pi * 50) = 17 uF


The battery functions as a resistor with external resistance:


RB = VB/I


This means that the resistance decrease with higher current, and when the current goes to zero the resistance goes to infinity. So when the current and the voltage are close to 90 deg apart, the battery allows the current to pass but "blocks" the voltage.


/Hob"

Hope it's cool to post that

Quote from Matt Watts on January 6th, 2014, 12:05 AM

Quote from geenee on January 5th, 2014, 08:11 PM

about polar capacitor that is very great idea because you can use 2 polar caps and connect them between positive side and positive side then you have double voltage capacity and half capacitance non polar capacitor.

I think I would try doing that in an explosion resistant box under some serious current flow and see if it really works before I engineer it into a reactive power circuit.  Last thing you would need while experimenting is to get blasted in the face with an electrolytic capacitor breaking loose.  You are already dealing with some dangerous voltages, currents, charged capacitors and strings of wires, no sense making things worse.

If you want to use polarized capacitors, put them after the rectifier diodes and play it safe.  They make polarized and non-polarized capacitors for a reason, not smart to think you can do otherwise.

There, Luc did his safety lecture and now I've done mine.  If all the sudden we no longer see you posting on the forum, we can probably assume you didn't take heed of the recommended procedures.

Big big thanks to Luc for all the information.
Read all about it on EF, OU and YT.

Matt is right about to be carefull using polarised capacitors.
This page (already posted in this thread) confirms however geenee's remarks:
http://www.qsl.net/ns8o/Induction_Generator.html

I hope I'm not muddying things up here but I don't trust myself yet to try this build with mains power. Using Hobs calc above I'm thinking about using my pulse motor with its gen hooked up to see if I can create a delayed lenz effect.

My pulse motor will run at 30k rpm and I can get about 1kv off the gen at that speed unloaded. As soon as I load it back to the battery of course speed drops dramatically because of lenz. I'm thinking of ruining it at 20k with a 500v gen


By using lucs circuit and Hobs equation I'm thinking about this for my cap
Ah = 3 V=500 f=20khz
So
C=3/(20*500*2*pi*20000)= my calc says that is 2.3873185637892e-9 can someone help a bloke and tell me what that is in uf??
Thanks for responding to my dumb question

thanks,Matt for suggestion.just try to find easy and cheaper ways but it might be dangerous.

Jimboot,2.38nf is the answer. e-9=10^-9.you use really high frequency!

thanks,bbem for great link.

Quote from Jimboot on January 6th, 2014, 02:12 AM

Interesting Hob over at ou is saying you don't need the resistor at all.

True, you don't but if you want to see the effect of reactive power, you need some sort of load.  Remember the batteries are not there for charging.  They are there to act like big capacitors.  I think Hob misunderstood the purpose of Luc's demonstration--probably hasn't seen my simulator circuit.

Quote from Mogir Jason Rofick on November 18th, 2013, 07:34 PM

That video at http://www.overunity.com/14013/reactive-...olhTPxutzQ is a wonderful gift! I hope everyone understands the unimaginable value of the information presented. I am inspired. I hope you are too.

We all need understanding, so, I thought it might be a good thing to paste a couple of links that will help all interested parties begin to gather the required knowledge to understand the information presented in that video, the math involved and magnitude of value in the information.

First: What is Reactive power? READ THIS CAREFULY! EVERY WORD.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volt-ampere_reactive

I like that it specifically says: “in many applications it is common for there to be a reactive component to the system, that is, the system possesses capacitance, inductance, or both.” This is contrasted with alternating current that is fully in phase with the voltage.

So, regarding capacitance that will cause a voltage phase shift it will be important to understand capacitors. What is a Farad?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farad

I don’t know about anybody else but I’d love to devise a way to take reactive power from the grid at no cost, power my home, then feed real power back into the grid to spin my electric meter backwards.

It now seems very plausible to me.

Quote from Enrg4life on January 6th, 2014, 08:21 AM

Quote from Mogir Jason Rofick on November 18th, 2013, 07:34 PM

That video at http://www.overunity.com/14013/reactive-...olhTPxutzQ is a wonderful gift! I hope everyone understands the unimaginable value of the information presented. I am inspired. I hope you are too.

We all need understanding, so, I thought it might be a good thing to paste a couple of links that will help all interested parties begin to gather the required knowledge to understand the information presented in that video, the math involved and magnitude of value in the information.

First: What is Reactive power? READ THIS CAREFULY! EVERY WORD.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volt-ampere_reactive

I like that it specifically says: “in many applications it is common for there to be a reactive component to the system, that is, the system possesses capacitance, inductance, or both.” This is contrasted with alternating current that is fully in phase with the voltage.

So, regarding capacitance that will cause a voltage phase shift it will be important to understand capacitors. What is a Farad?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farad

I don’t know about anybody else but I’d love to devise a way to take reactive power from the grid at no cost, power my home, then feed real power back into the grid to spin my electric meter backwards.

It now seems very plausible to me.

Hi every body, in reading these reactive energy posting it brought to mind an experiment that I did using a 440v to 120v step down control transformer wired backwards using the 120v grid power from my house service creating 440v single phase ac then to bridge rectifier taking the 440 vdc to a canister of  tap water with the anode attached to the side of the metal canister and cathode to a carbide drill bit centeredi and isolated from the anode with only the water in between. When powered up I noticed over many tested that when the water reached 180 deg f. The cathoded would begin an under water arching process around the cathode which at that time the current draw would drop to about 1/3  of the current before the arcing started.which was from 6 amps to 2 amps.This seams to be an efficient water heater.It is my guess that the splitting  of the h2o right at the cathode is igniting under water which reduces the surface area of water contact because of the gas bubbles igniting.This also works well with tungsten cathode.

Quote from Enrg4life on January 6th, 2014, 08:21 AM

Hi every body, in reading these reactive energy posting it brought to mind an experiment that I did using a 440v to 120v step down control transformer wired backwards using the 120v grid power from my house service creating 440v single phase ac then to bridge rectifier taking the 440 vdc to a canister of  tap water with the anode attached to the side of the metal canister and cathode to a carbide drill bit centeredi and isolated from the anode with only the water in between. When powered up I noticed over many tested that when the water reached 180 deg f. The cathoded would begin an under water arching process around the cathode which at that time the current draw would drop to about 1/3  of the current before the arcing started.which was from 6 amps to 2 amps.This seams to be an efficient water heater.It is my guess that the splitting  of the h2o right at the cathode is igniting under water which reduces the surface area of water contact because of the gas bubbles igniting.This also works well with tungsten cathode.

Interesting, thanks for sharing.

Quote from geenee on January 6th, 2014, 05:31 AM

thanks,Matt for suggestion.just try to find easy and cheaper ways but it might be dangerous.

Jimboot,2.38nf is the answer. e-9=10^-9.you use really high frequency!

thanks,bbem for great link.

Thanks Geenee wasn't sure I had the decimal places right. The frequency of the gen is because of the speed of the motor.

To All,

user name poynt99 (at OU topic) has identified a problem in my scope settings. I had my probes on AC coupling when they should be on DC coupling.

This changes the power numbers close to unity. I will need to re-test and re-tune to see if there is any advantages to the circuit.

Stay tuned for updates

Luc

WOO HO a +++++:P:P:P:P

Quote from gotoluc on January 6th, 2014, 06:56 PM

I had my probes on AC coupling when they should be on DC coupling.

This changes the power numbers close to unity. I will need to re-test and re-tune to see if there is any advantages to the circuit.

Crap.  Mine are set that way too.

Don't know about the simulator though, no way to change them.

It's always something...

Quote from Matt Watts on January 6th, 2014, 08:10 PM

Quote from gotoluc on January 6th, 2014, 06:56 PM

I had my probes on AC coupling when they should be on DC coupling.

This changes the power numbers close to unity. I will need to re-test and re-tune to see if there is any advantages to the circuit.

Crap.  Mine are set that way too.

Don't know about the simulator though, no way to change them.

It's always something...

Yes, poynt99 says for most everything they should be on DC coupling. He's going to make a video tutorial to help researcher get the correct results using these new scopes with math. It's needed because I couldn't find any demos about it on youtube.

I'll post the link when he's got it up

This doesn't end the research but hopefully help fine tune it.

Luc

Hi guys,

The below is information that Hob is allowing to be shared at this site.

Luc

I don't know what You know or not so I'll tell more than I probably have to.

On Battery charging/discharging rate: batteries are labeled in Ah, amps
times hour. This means that if You have a 100 Ah battery You can for ex.
take 100 A for 1 h or 1 A for 100 h, the same for charging. But in order
for the battery not to take harm the minimum hours should be 20 h, so to
get the maximum amps just divide the Ah by 20 h and You get the max A.

Imax = Ah / 20h

On reactance: in AC a single cap or coil works like a resistor but
*without* the joule-heating that comes with a regular resistor. When
alone a cap has the reactance (resistance) of

XC = 1/(2 pi f C) ohm

V = R I and I = V/R still applies! So if You have V=230, f = 50 Hz and a
cap of 12 uF the current through the cap will be:

I = V/R = V/XC = 230/( 1/(2 pi 50 * 12e-6) ) = 230 * 2 pi 50 * 12e-6 =
867 mA

and a suitable battery for this current would be

867e-3 * 20 = 17 Ah

Or the other way around, if You have a battery of 1.3 Ah and the same AC
as above the cap should be

XC = V/I and
I = Ah/20 and
XC = 1/(2 pi f C) combined to
20 V/Ah = 1/(2 pi f C) solve for C
C = Ah / (20 V 2 pi f)

lets put in the values

C = 1.3 / (20 * 230 * 2 pi 50) = 0.9 uF

When alone a coil has the reactance (resistance) of

XL = 2 pi f L ohm

so using the same reasoning as above you get

XL = V/I and
I = Ah/20 and
XL = 2 pi f L combined to
20 V/Ah = 2 pi f L solve for L
L = 20 V / (Ah 2 pi f)

lets put in the values

L = 20 * 230 / (1.3 * 2 pi 50) = 11.3 H

When You add the battery (and diodes) in series with the cap or coil the
values change slightly depending on the ratio between V and the battery
voltage, bit if V is high and battery voltage is low the formulas work
well enough as is.

If You want to combine a coil and a cap to balance each others reactance
to get resonance:

XC = XL gives
1/(2 pi f C) = 2 pi f L then solve for f
f = 1/(2 pi sqrt(LC)) or solve for L
L=1/((2 pi f)^2 C) or solve for C
C=1/((2 pi f)^2 L)

Using the cap and coil from above to get the resonant f:

f = 1/(2 pi sqrt(11.3 * 0.9e-6)) = close to 50

On the battery again. A regular resistor has a fixed R so I and V
depends on each other as in ohms law.

V = R I

When the voltage is high so is the current (as in using a shunt R). But
a charging battery has a (almost) fixed V so I and R depends on each
other as in ohms law:

RB = VB / I

where RB = battery external resistance and VB = battery voltage. So when
the current is high the resistance is low and vice versa.

This means that if we:
* maximize the current (and voltage) in a LC-tank
* get a battery with low voltage that can handle the current
* only charge the battery on max current (and when theres no voltage)
then we are not introducing much resistance in the circuit at all but we
are still charging the battery. Just as in the pendulum, use the
pendulum velocity momentum just when its at the bottom.

Another thing about the battery compared to the resistor. Resistor
joule-heating is proportional to current *squared* while battery
charging is *linear* to current:

P = I^2 R (resistor)
P = I VB (battery)

now listen to the pendulum vid at 1:20

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1n-C5o8fZ0

and then look at this, *when* the weight is lifted, at 2:05

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MTSsX4U4FU

at 2:43 he says "at another direction, in a straight line". When
converting to electronics I believe this is what the battery being
charged does. The weight goes straight up, not along the pendulum arc,
thats the battery effect.

and at 4:12 I believe the length in time of the impulse is adjusted and
possibly also the force-factor.

I have made up a sheet of "meta-quantities" to compare the pendulum with
the LC-tank which is very interesting, revealing, was somewhat tricky
and I think backs up my claims, but thats for another day.

/Hob

Found the thread, thanks for the link Luc.

/Hob

Quote from nilrehob on January 7th, 2014, 11:36 AM

Found the thread, thanks for the link Luc.

/Hob

Welcome aboard Hob.  It's a pleasure having you here.

Your analysis of the pendulum and attribution to charging circuits is very revealing.  I have a hunch if we lay this out on the table with a goal of finding a feedback mechanism that can be adjusted for gain, this concept can be applied to most anything--gravity engines, QMoGen, etc...

Talking with Russ, we both feel that an understanding of electrical circuits as mechanical devices is necessary.  Too much of the inner workings are abstracted using things like Ohms Law.  What is needed is more fundamental, though more complex.  If you think about Joseph Newman's "little gyros" instead of electrons, it becomes clear there is a mechanical aspect to electrical circuits.  The trick of course will be visualizing how things actually move; what impairs their motion and what accelerates them.  It's probably useful to also consider Ed Leedskalnin's Magnetic Currents.  Ed's concepts are far more mechanical in nature and easier to apply to an electric circuit.

Thank You,

I have just made a document on what I call "Meta Quantities" that can be found at my google site https://sites.google.com/site/nilrehob/home/documents that might give some new ideas on "Reactive Power" and also on what I call "Reactive Impulse".

/Hob

Luc,do you test dc coupling with reactive power(motor and alternator)?if it didn't consume power from motor side then you will be right.maybe this reactive power work with alternator,imho.

hope you don't give up.

geenee

Hi everyone
I'm going to start at the beginning. It can be a problem but to understand it exceeded requires evidence. So I after I put the first in motor directly, and after a long series of failures, i decided to try on incandescent lamp circuit, and surprise! I used a MOT opened, and behold I got 15w, 150w lamp at a real consumer. here the demonstration      /watch?v=mjT6SsRdU_8

Tomorrow, I'll do a demonstration with a motor generator where the effect is unexpected. In this case the circuit used as an inductor, whether or not the motor windings
Regard

hello everybody

 I am Cristian Alba and today I continue with another part of the project - Reactive power research-
This is my progress in the project

I got a motor, servo garage door one hundred ten watts, a home generator building, a servo motor 400w magnetic rotor, a 7.70 mf capacitor tank, one 11w the lamp and a power meter
Ok we check the motor powered directly from the mains and is easily observed that consumes 110w.
we check and note the power consumption same motor without generator . Now we check the generator and motor power consumption shown. Ok, if you connect the 11wati  lamp, note a slight increase in consumption.
That's all for now and thanks to Luc Choquette for opening this topic.    /watch?v=VLiEwfrxX7w