Hi all!
i´ve been looking for info about Daniel dingle lately and i found that someone released some info about the design that Daniel was using for easy spliting the water molecule...
http://www.hhoforums.com/archive/index.php/t-7293.html
He says Daniel was using Bismuth, magnets and honycomb(steel plates??)
The thing is that he sayd that the bismuth was the clue....and it looks like it has amazing properties:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnbfGaqNvjU
/watch?v=t-9SQfDzZn4&feature=youtube_gdata_player
the best thing is that magnets and bismuth are cheap to buy, so we can make experiments easily.
Does anyone have any idea of how we could combinate bismuth with magnets in order to create a core with "strange properties"?
I was thinking about it and i don´t think that we need to levitate magnets....what are your thoughs?
I´ve been messing with magnets in order to create a more efficient electrolisis and i found that helps a lot!!
/watch?v=qAoN5dq3JrA&feature=youtube_gdata_player

" i was also looking up a report about some research on material recovered at  ROSWELL in 47. seems some metallic material was recovered. it consisted of thin metal composed of three different elements.  bismuth was one" <----i took this from a fivs energy forum.
Good bless you all!

Hi Thank you for posting

it is great post

I found this and it my help

http://www.pat2pdf.org/patents/patus6372375.pdf

patent for bismith cell

and
manufacturer
http://marketplace.yet2.com/app/list/techpak?id=48752&sid=350&abc=0&page=tpprint

please post parts for this build
Dan

Yeah!
Bismuth has an amazing properties as i sayd.... i know that this is not as complex and precise as Meyer´s but i think here we can find a big help for splitting the water molecule in a different manner.
I found a place here in Spain where you can buy 1 kilo for 50€....more than enough for experimenting.
Look at this video and read the description below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIkMGSSS4s4

nice post video good this one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMaprzYaFGg

OK

Check this

http://books.google.com/books?id=eSYDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA50&lpg=PA50&dq=bismuth+makes+hydrogen&source=bl&ots=qEuLDkSfPc&sig=eFAvwepy7In2iGnsdAbfAdO0-is&hl=en&sa=X&ei=c2kYUdbFNaHoiwKM_oGADg&ved=0CEUQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=bismuth%20makes%20hydrogen&f=false

Page 50  Bismuth make hydrogen

if some one could find upload a pdf it would be great

Check you tube hydro sation of bistmuth

Dan Dingle once said a good chemist can work it out.

note this one

 Bismuth Hydride BiH3 Color gas
M, 212.00,b.p. 22 C 'B is thermally labile decomposing into its components even at room tempreture. It is formed along with much hydrogen by the reaction of acids with a magnesium bismuth alloy.

Check this

I did a search on

bismuth hydrogen reaction

and go this
http://books.google.com/books?id=Owuv-c9L_IMC&pg=PA136&lpg=PA136&dq=bismuth+hydrogen+reaction&source=bl&ots=zWuW2ojSge&sig=4TZWtInDq5IDyu4P-HMjzXNFI5M&hl=en&sa=X&ei=MHMYUdeKOqagigK724CQDA&ved=0CI0BEOgBMAk#v=onepage&q=bismuth%20hydrogen%20reaction&f=falsewow

High Energy Bismuth, more than just a pretty curiosity

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikaCIIcI-xM

Very nice post man!
This week i´ll get 1kg of bismuth hopefully(50€/kilo) and i´ll start testing with bismuth, neodimiun magnets and electrolisis....i still don´t know how fits the honeycomb thing here...
Thanks for the post anyway!!

bismuth has many electrons then it combine with 1 side of neodymium magnet to be monopole.i think maybe use for separate hydrogen and oxygen.

-Dingle hold secrets with him too much,not like Meyer.Dingle's son know the secrets.

thanks
geenee

Quote from geenee on February 12th, 2013, 05:44 PM

bismuth has many electrons then it combine with 1 side of neodymium magnet to be monopole.i think maybe use for separate hydrogen and oxygen.

-Dingle hold secrets with him too much,not like Meyer.Dingle's son know the secrets.

thanks
geenee

HI I have bismuth now now and can buy 140/ kg  States side

PLease place orders today to me by phone or
email

as at rock show and ending Saturday


Dan MB 520 906 2455

Quote from Muxar on February 12th, 2013, 11:52 AM

i still don´t know how fits the honeycomb thing here...

I heard, that the honeycomb geometrical surface is bigger than of an full plate material in same size. But it only works with hexagonal "drill holes".

Always when I hear something about bismuth it remembers me on that:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall_effect

The probes sometimes made of bismuth.



The neodym magnet can accelerate moving electrons which are the "workers" in electrolyses.


But I don´t know exactly how this all can be connected:
 
Honeycomb = big surface = good HHO production?
Bismuth = one of the best diamagnetic material http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamagnetism
Neodymium magnet = strong permanet magnet

Is the honeycomb made of bismuth? Bismuth is conductive and can be used as electrolyses plate.
Another fact is, that water has also like Bismuth a very low magnetic permeability.

Hello all!
i have some theories about Dingle´s cell and i want to share it with you so we can progress faster.
i´ve been doing some testing with my bismuth and this is what i found:
I melt it in 4 portions with biscuit form.
Using 2 disks of bismuth  as electrodes: nothing
using bismuth and a magnet: nothing
using 2 bismuth with magnets by theyr sides: nothing
i also melt bismuth and put magnets inside but they  have lost all the magnetism because of the heat :(
i want to see if anyone has an idea of the way that works...knowing that:
water in fact is a small magnet:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyqOTJOJSoU
we know that magnets helps in electrolisis:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAoN5dq3JrA
bismuth repels a magnetic force,combining with a magnet becames monopole  and has a lot of electrons on it. you can also use it as levitation experiments:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnbfGaqNvjU
Bismuth also has antigravity properties when extreme positive voltage is applied.
Maybe gravity also has something to do in all this...because now we know that dingle´s cell was in horizontal position(is just an idea).
And then we have a honey comb...wich is the most amazing structure in the nature...Tesla once sayd that the electrostatic emision was concentrated in corners mostly, the bigger the corner more electron emission...maybe has something in relation with this....
And finally we have electron flow that causes also electromagnetism...maybe taking all this forces to work together instead of confronting eatch other...we could get something good...what are your thoughts?
I have all the material but just need the clue....if someone has any idea i´ll try it.
god bless you all!!Sorry, i forgot to say something else about bismuth:
when Laminated in multi layers achieve above normally high Diamagnetic material at room temperature normally only seen in Superconductors.
:)

http://wr.lib.tsinghua.edu.cn/sites/default/files/1192895878708.pdf

Some pictures of this system:

Quote from Muxar on April 11th, 2013, 09:19 AM

Hello all!
i have some theories about Dingle´s cell and i want to share it with you so we can progress faster.
i´ve been doing some testing with my bismuth and this is what i found:
I melt it in 4 portions with biscuit form.
Using 2 disks of bismuth  as electrodes: nothing
using bismuth and a magnet: nothing
using 2 bismuth with magnets by theyr sides: nothing
i also melt bismuth and put magnets inside but they  have lost all the magnetism because of the heat :(
i want to see if anyone has an idea of the way that works...knowing that:
water in fact is a small magnet:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyqOTJOJSoU
we know that magnets helps in electrolisis:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAoN5dq3JrA
bismuth repels a magnetic force,combining with a magnet becames monopole  and has a lot of electrons on it. you can also use it as levitation experiments:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnbfGaqNvjU
Bismuth also has antigravity properties when extreme positive voltage is applied.
Maybe gravity also has something to do in all this...because now we know that dingle´s cell was in horizontal position(is just an idea).
And then we have a honey comb...wich is the most amazing structure in the nature...Tesla once sayd that the electrostatic emision was concentrated in corners mostly, the bigger the corner more electron emission...maybe has something in relation with this....
And finally we have electron flow that causes also electromagnetism...maybe taking all this forces to work together instead of confronting eatch other...we could get something good...what are your thoughts?
I have all the material but just need the clue....if someone has any idea i´ll try it.
god bless you all!!
Sorry, i forgot to say something else about bismuth:
when Laminated in multi layers achieve above normally high Diamagnetic material at room temperature normally only seen in Superconductors.
:)

Or, after driving around with his car, the battery was empty :D (choking)
Whats about the electric field, which is normaly needed for electrolyses. Maybe this can be supported with strong magnetic field.
The electrical field forces to transports the ions through the electrolyte. Therefor energy is needed and also for splitting the H2O a minimum voltage is needed.
By adding another force to the ions (magnetic) the energy (voltage) for electrolyses is reduced to a minimum.
Another other theory of mine is, that the cell is like a resistor for capacity loading.
All the Q for electrolyses is saved in a capacitor which is connected to the negative side of the cell. The Q is saved in the capacitor and can be used to load the battery. :)


 

update

I am looking at this again
we need to find  honey comb bismuth or honey comb alloy bismuth
electrodes I have played with it dispite the things on web it is cheap to get in aw form

it seam in this config it is a super conductor equal ot better than graphine

here is one I found
where there is oxygen being made  the is.........

http://marketplace.yet2.com/app/list/techpak?id=48723&sid=350&abc=0


What puzzels me is how did dingle get such a nice piece of alloy bismuth in honey comb, ???
in one of his videos he mentions a local alloy company which supplies him alloy wool
shaving so may be?


dan

Quote from securesupplies on December 30th, 2013, 02:15 PM

update

I am looking at this again
we need to find  honey comb bismuth or honey comb alloy bismuth
electrodes I have played with it dispite the things on web it is cheap to get in aw form

it seam in this config it is a super conductor equal ot better than graphine

here is one I found
where there is oxygen being made  the is.........

http://marketplace.yet2.com/app/list/techpak?id=48723&sid=350&abc=0


What puzzels me is how did dingle get such a nice piece of alloy bismuth in honey comb, ???
in one of his videos he mentions a local alloy company which supplies him alloy wool
shaving so may be?


dan

Hi Dan!!
i was kind of obssesed with this cell a while ago...and finally i got nothing out of it....i have pure bismuth in my workshop, also some bismuth alloy but not sure which kind of alloy...(i can ask) and i also have magnets and stainless steel.
If you have any idea or configuration, you just say and i will test it!
I tried to melt some bismuth in a mold of aluminium (with a honeycomb shape)i made but was so difficult to take it out without breaking it.....it´s easy to break if you melt it thin, and as a read, the bismuth shows better it´s properties when melted thin.
They also use bismuth in rpm sensors in cars etc... to perform the "hall effect"....i think that it´s something to do with this property but not sure how to apply.
Anyway....my feeling is that dingle had so little resources so it must be very simple, cheap and easy to make, and wihout any frecuency or high voltage....just dc current.

The important thing in his system is the cell, but he also was inyecting some water steam to the engine and using firestorm spark plugs with the plasma circuit.

Come on guys, in 2014 we have to get something big out of this forum!! I´m from spain and i´m fed up about electricity prices and gas price....always rising!! it´s mental!!
This time is not enough to be ourselves....in2014 we have to be the best version of ourselves!! ;)
Muxar.

hy guys,

I found out, that bismuth is a good electrode material, it only has 0,3V electrode potential. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrode_potential
This needs less energy for electrolyses.

He always says, that he uses 1 car battery with 12V. If he uses the 12V for supplying the reactor, he has a lot of "waste" voltage for electrolyses.
Indeed I found out, that when a higher voltage is applied to one cell, than for electrolyses needed (>1,4V), the most energy turns into heat. But why?--> I takes me ~half a year to found out why:
The voltage bigger than 1,4V is used to create heat because, more atomic hydrogen is created. The atomic hydrogen reacts very fast (<1sek) with an other atomic hydrogen and creates H2. This causes a lot of heat at the electrodes. So a lot of energy turns into heat. After half a year of research I can give this information with safe chemistry background research.
 
But we have about 1sec. to pull out the atomic hydrogen with help of the engines vacuum. So Mr. Dingle surely has no pressure system, but a vacuum system to pull out the hydrogen and the atomic hydrogen out of the reactor. In a video he says: "it takes a few turns to start the engine because the hydrogen is sucked into the engine".
Although the H+H reactes to H2, the H2 in this case is very reactive. More reactive than out of the industrial pressure bottle.
It is called the "statu nascendi", which means for a few seconds, the atomic hydrogen H and/or the molecular hydrogen H2 are very reactive. The scientist do not know why this happens. But they made comparisson to normal H2 out of a pressure bottle--> less reactive gas than in "statu nascendi".
This means:

1) After creating a gas in the reactor with voltages greater than 1,4-2,6V (depending on the electrodematerial) the amount of atomic Hydrogen is much higher, which exist <1second.
2) Altough the gas is combining to H2 and creating heat, it is still very reactive a few seconds
3) With help of the vacuum of the enigne, we can suck the created H and H2 in less than 1second into the combustion chamber.

I think, this is also the reason, why Mr. St. Meyer built the injector. So the time of creating hydrogen and burning it in the combustion chamber is minimized (All of this happens in the injector nealy at the same time). The chance to use the H+H reaction creating an anourmos amount of heat is higher. So the injector produces hydrogen and bruning it at nearly the same time using the H+H reaction....

IMHO Dingle did the same, but uses an external reactor.
Now the punch line is: atomic hydrogen is magnetic!
With such a strong magnet like the neodym, we can control the flow of atomic hydrogen, or we can help push the atomic hydrogen away from the electrodes in the moment of its birth. Or we can aligne the atomic hydrogen on the way to the combustion chamber, so that a reaction of H+H is prevented in the vacuum tube of the reactor.
A lot of gases (specially chemical radicals like hydrogen atom) have the paramagnetic property.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paramagnetism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paramagnetism#Systems_with_minimal_interactions

Quote: "The narrowest definition would be: a system with unpaired spins that do not interact with each other. In this narrowest sense, the only pure paramagnet is a dilute gas of monatomic hydrogen atoms. Each atom has one non-interacting unpaired electron."

When bismuth is used as electrode, it helps to push away the atomic hydrogen.

Still thinking of the reaction in the cumbostion chamber:
H+H --> H2
2H2 +O2 ->2H2O

Two times we can get energy out of the reactions. Specially the first one achieves a lot of energy.

......

.....

Think of the definition in St. Meyers Memos of the "Hydrogen Fracturing Process":
The Hydrogen Fracturing Process simply triggers and releases atomic energy from natural water by allowing highly energized sub-critical combustible gas ions to come together during thermal gas ignition.
atomic energy= atomic hydrogen
subcritical state = "statu nascendi"
Only come together during gas ignition!

The man was right when he sayes, that voltage can generate hydrogen atoms.
So he used the atomic hydrogen to form the GTNT (Thermal explosive energy). There are a few parallels to dingel car IMHO. Because he also sucked directly into the engine.


I know this sounds crazy but I tried at home with some magnets to influence the HHO foam/bubbles. :)
Here is a video (not mine) which you can see the magnetism of (atomic) Hydrogen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yKjE8z3zZU

The hydrogen clouds disappear after a seconds, that only can be hydrogen in statu nascendi. It looks like this is the reactive gas consists of H2 and H. H2 is not able to be magnetised. It also looks like, that when the magnet catch a cloud, that the cloud disappear slower than the other clouds. Maybe the magnetism can slow down the H+H reaction.

Regards

great video,Amsy.i agree with you.

atomic hydrogen(h+) is more energy than hydrogen gas(h2).that why first version of stan wfc need laser to ionize hydrogen gas.

high gtnt = if electron far away from proton that will be more energy, more explosion energy to be stable state (h+)--> h2 --> water--> solid.

maybe pressure that work for making unstable state,imho.

Dingle use monopole magnet to pull h+ out and hard to combine to hydrogen gas.

thanks
geenee

***update sorry for my bad post h- replaced by h+

Quote from geenee on December 31st, 2013, 04:37 PM

great video,Amsy.i agree with you.

atomic hydrogen(h-) is more energy than hydrogen gas(h2).that why first version of stan wfc need laser to ionize hydrogen gas.

high gtnt = if electron far away from proton that will be more energy, more explosion energy to be stable state (h-)--> h2 --> water--> solid.

maybe pressure that work for making unstable state,imho.

Dingle use monopole magnet to pull h- out and hard to combine to hydrogengas.

thanks
geenee

hi geenee,

thanks,
in the video you see, that the gas is following the magnetization lines.
Out of the quote of wiki:
" Of course, the element hydrogen is virtually never called 'paramagnetic' because the monatomic gas is stable only at extremely high temperature; H atoms combine to form molecular H2 and in so doing, the magnetic moments are lost (quenched), because the spins pair."

So in this clouds, the only element which is magnetic, is the atomic hydrogen. Which is produced in the HHO Cell. Unfortunately, the atomic hydrogen exist only for less than 1 sec. So we have to catch it with a strong magnet, or we suck it as fast as we can into the engine.

Regards

Quote from Amsy on January 1st, 2014, 12:06 AM

So in this clouds, the only element which is magnetic, is the atomic hydrogen. Which is produced in the HHO Cell. Unfortunately, the atomic hydrogen exist only for less than 1 sec. So we have to catch it with a strong magnet, or we suck it as fast as we can into the engine.

So essentially it would be best to produce this atomic Hydrogen as close to the combustion chamber as possible; maybe even inside the combustion chamber as Stan attempted with his injectors.  Interesting.

So would you say this atomic Hydrogen is far more energetic than H2?  I'm assuming that is the case, but how much more powerful?  Twice?  Three times?  More?

I know heatlocke would be very interested in finding the best delivery mechanism for his cell.

Quote from Matt Watts on January 1st, 2014, 12:23 AM

Quote from Amsy on January 1st, 2014, 12:06 AM

So in this clouds, the only element which is magnetic, is the atomic hydrogen. Which is produced in the HHO Cell. Unfortunately, the atomic hydrogen exist only for less than 1 sec. So we have to catch it with a strong magnet, or we suck it as fast as we can into the engine.

So essentially it would be best to produce this atomic Hydrogen as close to the combustion chamber as possible; maybe even inside the combustion chamber as Stan attempted with his injectors.  Interesting.

So would you say this atomic Hydrogen is far more energetic than H2?  I'm assuming that is the case, but how much more powerful?  Twice?  Three times?  More?

I know heatlocke would be very interested in finding the best delivery mechanism for his cell.

Hy Matt,

the chemical reaction of H+H is around 435 kJ/mol.
The chemical reaction of H2 and O2 is around 286 kJ/mol.

So 1.5 times more energy than in the combustion of H2.
 
But there is more we can get out of the system:
stage 1. reaction is H+H = H2 (435kJ/mol)
stage 2. reaction is 2H2+O2 = 2H2O (286kJ/mol)

Sum energy is 721 kJ/mol.
that is 2.5 times more than the 2stage reaction of H2.

Maybe it is more, we have to try on a real application. I think the best efficient will be to stay very close to the cumbustion chamber when creating the hydrogen in the cell. We only have <1sec to use it before the H reacts with an other H atom to an H2 molecule and generates heat somewhere outside of the combustion chamber.

The injector I think is one the best ideas to do this.
As we know, that higher voltages can generate this hydrogen in "statu nascendi", it is clear (for me) why meyer used higher voltages instead of high current with low voltage. So the balance of the HHO production is more on the atomic H side than on the H2 side.
So Stanley Meyer called this process in his words "Electrical polarization process" it was the first stage of the "hydrogen fracturing process". He could get out atomic hydrogen out of the water bath. It is difficult because of the very fast recombination to H2, but he had a lot of tools, to prohibit the recombination, like electromagnetic fields, laser, LEDs ..... I think also Mr. Dingle used the Neodym to prohibit the early recombination.
But the best way seems to be the injector, so no tools are needed, because the recombination happens where he wants to had it.

Regards

Eidt: I saw in this thread a mistake happend: stage 2 is H2 + O = H2O

Quote from Amsy on January 1st, 2014, 02:51 AM

As we know, that higher voltages can generate this hydrogen in "statu nascendi", it is clear (for me) why meyer used higher voltages instead of high current with low voltage. So the balance of the HHO production is more on the atomic H side than on the H2 side.
So Stanley Meyer called this process in his words "Electrical polarization process" it was the first stage of the "hydrogen fracturing process". He could get out atomic hydrogen out of the water bath. It is difficult because of the very fast recombination to H2, but he had a lot of tools, to prohibit the recombination, like electromagnetic fields, laser, LEDs .....

Thanks Amsy, nice tutorial on what could be the recipe to success.
It makes sense to further add either electromagnetic fields, laser and so on in order to prevent the atomic hydrogen to recombine to H2 before it reaches the combustion chamber.
This seems to me to be a further development of Meyer's WFC, it could also help explain the purpose of the injectors, to prevent recombination of the atomic hydrogen all the way in to the cylinder.

interesting,h2 more powerful than gasoline 2.5 times at the same volume but h+ more powerful than h2 2.5 times too.

i updated my upper post h- replaced by h+.

thanks
geenee

Hy guys,

After some time of research, the bloody question was, why do we create some much heat when we make electrolyse with higher voltages than ~2V.
I always thought, this is from the electrolyt or water inside, but it just start to heat at the electrodes. I measured this in my wetcell. The electrode itself was always hotter than the water around it. So the core of the heatsource was the electrodes.
Therefore I searched for answers, what happens at the electrodes at high voltages and a bit of athmosphere of H2 around it. I read a lot and found, that this reaction of H+H can heat up the water. This is because after the gasbubble is created, it stays a while on the electrode. So there is a chance to make the H+H reaction.
Indeed it was very efficient to warm up the water.

So I researched a lot by reading something about monoatomic hydrogen. H or H+.
They are far more reactive than H2.

Yes geenee, the energy will be higher, when the electron is far away from the atom´s core or completely pull off. (Ionisaztion).

Yes Lynx,
it make sense to recombine the H atoms in the combustion chamber. This will be a mixed reaction of H+H and H2 +O2, but in the end we can get out more energy than only with the H2+O2.

I think, Daniel Dingel understood this. You can see in the video oh him, that the most of his stuff is from LPG modifikation tool. The hoses, the valves.....
So he turned his car with help of the LPG stuff into a hydrogen car.
I have to look for the information how fast air is sucked into the combustion chamber, hydrogen is good to us, it is 14times lighter than air. Is sucked in immideatly. He mentionet that in his videos, so I think he also uses the H+H reaction.

Quote from Amsy on January 1st, 2014, 04:58 AM

So I researched a lot by reading something about monoatomic hydrogen. H or H+.
They are far more reactive than H2.

Yes geenee, the energy will be higher, when the electron is far away from the atom´s core or completely pull off. (Ionisaztion).

Yes Lynx,
it make sense to recombine the H atoms in the combustion chamber. This will be a mixed reaction of H+H and H2 +O2, but in the end we can get out more energy than only with the H2+O2.

I think, Daniel Dingel understood this. You can see in the video oh him, that the most of his stuff is from LPG modifikation tool. The hoses, the valves.....
So he turned his car with help of the LPG stuff into a hydrogen car.
I have to look for the information how fast air is sucked into the combustion chamber, hydrogen is good to us, it is 14times lighter than air. Is sucked in immideatly. He mentionet that in his videos, so I think he also uses the H+H reaction.

I think that's also what Bob Boyce had going when the diode blew in the regulator in his boat engine, he saw that at a specific RPM the motor all the sudden revved up, indicating that monatomic hydrogen were produced which in turn then upped the speed drastically.
http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=579