Great work, I'm watching in anticipation!  I would make sure the battery connections are good, that amount of current could really heat things up.  Looks like you could shorten the wires up some too, I just bought a similar inverter from a guy who said he kept blowing fuses, even though his load was within the inverters limits.  He shortened the wiring between the battery and inverter, and it made all the difference.

Quote from ethospete on October 17th, 2012, 08:32 AM

Hi EZ

Yes, we've been having a whole lot of fun with it so far...  :)

As you can see below, yes the water was very dark brown when we flushed it out today...

I thought Patrick Kelly in his document says that the dangerous salt KOH leaves the plates more clean. But if it is the salt and the minerals or only one alone i don't know.
But if you still have a night..then try to filter it. With new bottled water you'll end up getting the same brown stuff i think.

Quote from ethospete on October 17th, 2012, 08:32 AM

If Daniel Dingle drove his car on 20 litres a minute of HHO why don't you think this setup will work as it's rated at 20 lpm to 25 lpm..? If he can do it why can't I..?  :)

Didn't know of him..and you know the last calculation i made...in that you needed 2400 liters per minute so i don't know how much HHO you need to run on it alone.

Quote from ethospete on October 17th, 2012, 08:32 AM

I don't want to save on fuel... everyone is already doing that with HHO and so that is already old news now... the original remit for this project is to either prove or disprove whether it is possible to actually run a car solely on 20 lpm to 25 lpm of HHO gas from water. I still believe that it is possible as I drove Daniel Dingle's  water-powered car so I have already seen it done before, with my very own eyes, on March 28th 2008 in Manila in the Philippines. I took the following photos just before I drove the car...

And he, daniel, didnt use extra watermoisture also?

Quote from ethospete on October 17th, 2012, 08:32 AM

So that's about all the news for today and it will be very interesting to hopefully finally get some answers tomorrow now.

We will see... :shy:

All the best

ethospete...

If you haven't altered the timing yet, maybe a HHO production reading can be done already?

Stay trucking, i'll look if there's more about brown water etc. on the net.

Quote from Badger on October 17th, 2012, 12:25 PM

Great work, I'm watching in anticipation!  I would make sure the battery connections are good, that amount of current could really heat things up.  Looks like you could shorten the wires up some too, I just bought a similar inverter from a guy who said he kept blowing fuses, even though his load was within the inverters limits.  He shortened the wiring between the battery and inverter, and it made all the difference.

Hi Badger

Many thanks for your kind words... I unfortunately don't have an amp meter here but it doesn't seem to be pulling that much current - the inverter has a big cooling fan at the back and even after running it for a couple of hours the fan hadn't come on and everything was still nice and cool but I'll bear your suggestions in mind if we start having problems like that. This time I've added more water and double the Ammonium Chloride to 2kg so I guess it's about a 16% solution now which should increase the current draw and the output.

The cables were the ones recommended to go with the inverter from Harbor Freight Tools and from memory they are rated at 300 A at 12 V.

All the best

ethosete...

Quote from FaradayEZ on October 17th, 2012, 12:27 PM

If you haven't altered the timing yet, maybe a HHO production reading can be done already?

Stay trucking, i'll look if there's more about brown water etc. on the net.

I've just got the distributor loose so I can move it by hand to try and get it to start and if/when it starts will then tune it by ear to where it likes running the best and then go from there.

Will see how the brown water goes this time now it's been totally cleaned and refilled.

All the best

ethospete...

go pete go! :)

keep an eye on temperature at those ratings... just a thought. it starts to boil you get water mist in your system it can be bad... then again if its hot enough it will make it better :)

grate start so far! :) bust of luck on testing!

~Russ

Hi Pete,
It seems that overdriving your cell can have to do with the brown stuff and excess heat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtlVJdrtbAM&feature=player_profilepage
(about overdriving your drivecell and dirty water)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=tp0i3RbtWsc&list=PL22AF837F363BEE86

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDjnPMji9YU&feature=player_detailpage&list=PL22AF837F363BEE86
(about the punch 5.0)

Many thanks to everyone for your encouragement, support and useful feedback.

As EZ mentions I may be overdriving the cell - any suggestions on how to regulate it..? I'm using the standard 120v driver box that came with the cell from Punch.

Today with the stronger solution electrolyte the cables got hot as Badger predicted they would in his earlier quote so we must be drawing a lot more current now than the earlier conditioning run on the previous 10% electrolyte solution.

But we also dumped all the battery's energy in just a few minutes. :(

Can anyone tell me how long should a fully charged 225A/Hr battery last if we were pulling the maximum 5kw out of the inverter?

I got the HHO cell running up and then fed the HHO pipe with one of the small flashback arrestors on the end directly into the LPG supply pipe going to the mixer in the top of the air filter and turned the engine over while manually adjusting the distributor and we did get one point where it sounded like it was just firing up and then it just carried on turning over again and, by that time, the battery powering the HHO unit was out of power. We've got the normal car battery at the front powering the engine in the usual way and the heavy duty battery in the boot powering the inverter for the HHO unit.

So no HHO battery power was unfortunately a quick end to the days tests... Either the batteries weren't fully charged or we were dragging an awful lot more current out of them than before as on the original test it was running for between one to two hours before the battery went flat and this time it was just a few minutes.

So we've left the batteries on charge again and will see what happens again tomorrow. We now have 3 x 200 A/Hr batteries and 1 x 225A/hr batteries so if we connect them all together that should then give us 825A/Hr which should hopefully last longer.

If we still don't get any results with that setup tomorrow then I think the next step will be to get another 120v Punch cell and connect them together and try it on 240v mains voltage as we are 240v here and the current cell is their 120v unit. That should also double the HHO output up to 40 to 50 lpm and eliminate the current problems we're having with the battery supply.  :)

We obviously wouldn't be able to drive it like that, without a very long extension lead, lol ... but hopefully that will give us a much better and more constant HHO supply to work with then.
 
The next step after that is we'll then need Russ's EPG unit to power it so that we can drive it... :)

It's an interesting learning curve and we'll just have to wait again and see what happens tomorrow now...

All the best

ethospete...
If my very basic electrical knowledge is correct... with a brand new fully charged 225A/Hr battery... we should be able to draw 450 Amps for 30 minutes..?

So if the 5000 Watt inverter draws 417 Amps from the 12V battery supply it should run for at least 30 minutes before going flat... or for an hour with 2 x 225A/Hr batteries connected together in parallel...

Cheers, ethospete...

Hi Peter,
 
   a 100 Ah Battery lasts 100 hours at 1 Amp and 1 hour at 100 Amps.
 
   5000 Watts at 12 V are 5000/12 = 417 Amps ==>> the 225 Ah Battery lasts 0.54 hours at this rate (if it at all can deliver that much current).
 
   BTW if you discharge a lead acid battery (the ones used in cars) by more than 50% you reduce it's life span.
 
   Hope this helps
 
Alles Gute
Michael

Giving it some more thoughts, Peter,
 
   417 Amps is absolutely too much. I doubt the battery can deliver this (if at all) at a permanent basis. 10 x 12v Batteries connected together in series would give 120 Volts and reduce the current to 42 Amps. That's an acceptable current rating and much more likely.
 
   Please check the manual or data sheet of your inverter.
 
Michael
So it looks more and more like this is turning into "Let's build a new electric / HHO Water-Powered car..."  :)

And makes Stan's EPG units explain how he got his one working if you've got a very powerful supply of onboard electricity available.

So again we're back to the EPG units... :)

But at least I've another option to try now... just need to buy ten more batteries now...  lol

Many thanks Michael for all your help...

All the best

ethospete...

Hi Pete,

The HHO connexxion guy in the video's in my earlier post explains how much amps you can run through the dry cell without overrunning it.

Best thing would be to get more cells, and run them at best efficiency.

And that you haven't done yet. And conditioning is not only cleaning, its also getting a layer of stuff thats helps electrolyses also.

You haven't measured the HHO output yet, you have no amp-meter yet. You can't plug it in and think that it will work fine just by wanting it.

You need more patience and need to get more into the nitty gritty of this all.

Hi EZ

I did watch the videos earlier - many thanks... But I still don't know how you can regulate the current supply to the cell..?

Yes, I'm definitely a plug-n-play type of guy... ;)

All the best

ethospete...

Quote from ethospete on October 18th, 2012, 01:55 PM

Hi EZ

I did watch the videos earlier - many thanks... But I still don't know how you can regulate the current supply to the cell..?

Yes, I'm definitely a plug-n-play type of guy... ;)

All the best

ethospete...

No control box somewhere? Or a big knob with an A on it..lol?

Then that's the next thing to work on, get something in between to regulate this. Maybe a resistance that you can vary, but i'm no soldertype either.

Only other way is to reduce the salt % in the mixture.

Quote from ethospete on October 18th, 2012, 10:11 AM

If we still don't get any results with that setup tomorrow then I think the next step will be to get another 120v Punch cell and connect them together and try it on 240v mains voltage as we are 240v here and the current cell is their 120v unit. That should also double the HHO output up to 40 to 50 lpm and eliminate the current problems we're having with the battery supply.  :)

We obviously wouldn't be able to drive it like that, without a very long extension lead, lol ... but hopefully that will give us a much better and more constant HHO supply to work with then.

All the best

ethospete...

Going that road you might use the housepower to fill the gastank overnight? Nahh that would be depleated after 5 miles? :s

And mail the guys where you bought the cell with what you encounter, they will want you to succeed also!

 

Quote from FaradayEZ on October 18th, 2012, 02:24 PM

No control box somewhere? Or a big knob with an A on it..lol?

Hi EZ

Yes, the silver box on the right of the inverter has the control potentiometer on it (no knob though lol) but this regulates the voltage rather than the current. As you say, I think it's the electrolyte that regulates the current draw as the first test was exactly 10% and one battery lasted between one and two hours... This time it is nearer to 20% and flattened the battery in just a few minutes.

As mentioned above by Michael, 10 batteries in series would give a 120v DC Supply with no AC ripple which is ideal... and then we wouldn't need the inverter and the AC/DC power regulator module... But we'd then need some sort or large rheostat if we wanted to regulate the DC supply. Another 9 of these batteries would cost $2,500 here so the option below will be a little bit less expensive and will then give us twice the HHO output.

As you suggest, I'll contact Punch as they are very helpful and as they say on their website:

"We offer custom solutions for any volume of gas you need. We have controllers to suit any situation. From single phase to 3 phase we have you covered. 100 to 500 volts and 20 to 2500 amps, from 1 to 1000 liters per minute we have what you need and will gladly ship worldwide. For large volume HHO production Punch HHO is the place to be!"

So I'm thinking the next step will be to get another 120v HHO cell from them and one of their 240v controllers and then connect the two HHO cells together in series and then we can power it from the mains which should then hopefully give us an uninterruptible HHO supply to work with.

All the best

ethospete...

It very nearly lives!!!!  :):):)

99.9% of the way there today... We connected the 4 batteries and actually got it running with the ignition key turned... but there's currently just not quite enough gas yet to actually run on its own... But with more gas I definitely 100% know that it will run now.  :)

Everyone was totally amazed...  lol

So now I need to:

1. Put together a 1 litre gas measurer so that we can check exactly how much gas output we have at the moment.

2. Carry on conditioning the cell to try and increase the output further.

3. Get volt and Amp meters so that we can measure the electrical input.

4. Order another 120v cell to double up our current gas supply.

So, all in all, a brilliant end to a hard weeks work... apart from I've put my back out again from an old recurring disc problem as I've not been on the spanners and bending over cars for 15+ years!  lol  But the end result has been worth it...  :)

All the best

ethospete...

Excellent news ethos, glad it ended on a high note this week.  Looking forward to some pics and vids of you pootling around in your automobile soon!

Quote from symanuk on October 19th, 2012, 10:57 AM

Excellent news ethos, glad it ended on a high note this week.  Looking forward to some pics and vids of you pootling around in your automobile soon!

Many thanks and I'm really looking forward to it as well... Sod's law I didn't take the camera today as I'd have loved to have taken a photo of their faces... it was a classic...  lol  :D

I'll definitely video it the next time...

I'm just ordering up the following items now...

1 x 220v AC controller
2 x 120v DC controllers
120v 55 plate home unit
radiator x2
fan                        
tank with fittings

So, as you can see, we'll be adding a cooling system as well to help keep the temperature down.

So we'll see how long it takes to get here now...

All the best

ethospete...

Good work guys!

For the proof of concept is good but in the long term brute force is a waist of power and money....

Now i want to say Dingel may be right,because lets take Stans buggy for example and make some simple calculations.
I bet you guys know the video when the buggy was iddling in the driveway,now Stans said in the independent test ev....that his demo cell produces 7lpm at 40amps,so 7lpm is enough to iddle the 1.6l engine....
now from what i know an engine rpm at idle is 900-1000rpm...then 1000rpm=7lpm,2000rpm=14lpm,3000rpm =21lpm...+wind resistance =25Lpm..so to get the car moving and changing the gears you need at least 2000rpm...And you can slow the burn rate by recirculating  the exaust gases and reducing the hho flow...so Dingle is corect,now depends of the engine size....

    ethospete how do you know dingel;s car was runing just on hho?I heard Dingel was arested for taking some money....bla bla...How his setup was strait dc to his cell?

Hi Pete,

I'm glad you had some results to keep the spark alive on this project.
Be careful with your back though, i know those troubles and use some exercises to keep it away.

I still think that if you want to drive only on water you still need the moisture.

Burning only HHO isn't good for the engine. Plus you have to overrun your HHO cells, even with two to get the production needed.

So you will waste electricity on that and have to use electricity to deal with the heat. Its not a self sustaining setup that way. And proving it can is not proving it can run 15 minutes... at least i think. Next you order extra alternators, and will blow them out by overusing.

I think the way to go is first to establish how much HHO do you need to keep the motor running. Including moisture-air.
Then to produce that amount as efficient as possible

It would still be a whole 100% water car that way!!

But you knew my take on it already.

Still its a good project to get to know all this stuff in practice. :)

Quote from adys15 on October 19th, 2012, 01:03 PM

Good work guys!

For the proof of concept is good but in the long term brute force is a waist of power and money....

Now i want to say Dingel may be right,because lets take Stans buggy for example and make some simple calculations.
I bet you guys know the video when the buggy was iddling in the driveway,now Stans said in the independent test ev....that his demo cell produces 7lpm at 40amps,so 7lpm is enough to iddle the 1.6l engine....
now from what i know an engine rpm at idle is 900-1000rpm...then 1000rpm=7lpm,2000rpm=14lpm,3000rpm =21lpm...+wind resistance =25Lpm..so to get the car moving and changing the gears you need at least 2000rpm...And you can slow the burn rate by recirculating  the exaust gases and reducing the hho flow...so Dingle is corect,now depends of the engine size....

    ethospete how do you know dingel;s car was runing just on hho?I heard Dingel was arested for taking some money....bla bla...How his setup was strait dc to his cell?

Many thanks and I agree that brute force hho production is a waste of power and money... As discussed above, this mission is to try and prove the concept... that it is possible to power an ordinary car engine and get it running on hho gas produced from water. I'm just acting as a catalyst for change to hopefully speed things up a little. Once it's proved and more and more people believe it I'm hoping that either they will be forced into finally releasing the technology... or a genius like Russ will successfully finish the replications that he's working so hard on. Also, brute force hho production shouldn't be such a waste of power and money when it's being powered by one of Stan's EPG units. I'm going to have to use a bank of 10 12v batteries... or maybe even 24... but once it's running we just need an EPG to replace them all and the HHO fuel cell and the controller. We also need to re-discover Stan and Daniel's method of disassociating water molecules with low current.  

The first high mileage carburettor was invented back in the 1930's which gave fuel consumption figures far better than any car on the road today... 200 mpg!!! So why was it never used...? And there have been later improvements on it and better energy saving devices invented ever since then. Research fuel saving patents...

US Patent # 1,750,354
Carburetor
Charles N. Pogue
(March 11, 1930)

http://www.google.com/patents/US1750354

Patent number: 1750354
Filing date: Aug 20, 1927
Issue date: Mar 11, 1930

The announcement of Pogue’s invention caused enormous excitement in the American motor industry in 1933, when he drove 200 miles on one gallon of fuel in a Ford V8. However, the Winnipeg was never manufactured commercially and after 1936 it disappeared altogether amid allegations of a political cover-up.

In the 1970's in El Paso, a young inventor Tom Ogle claimed that he got over 100 mpg in his “Oglemobile”, a Ford V8 equipped with his fuel vaporizing system. Articles in the El Paso Times reported on his invention including test drives of the Oglemobile. It also reported that a Shell Oil Co. representative asked him what he would do if someone offered him a very large sum of money -- reportedly $25 million. He said he wasn't interested and was going to bring his invention to market. Unfortunately, shortly afterward Mr. Ogle died. Reportedly he succumbed, either from a drug and/or alcohol overdose.

The powers that be and the oil cartels always want us to use more fuel and not less... That was one of the main reasons for catalytic converters, as they increase fuel consumption and are another expensive part that requires replacing, they don't care about the planet and global warming was another one of their scams to enable them to introduce carbon taxes.

So if we were capable of 200 mpg in 1930, imagine what it would be with today's technology if it hadn't all been suppressed!!

>>>ethospete how do you know dingel;s car was runing just on hho?I heard Dingel was arested for taking some money....bla bla...How his setup was strait dc to his cell?

I inspected it thoroughly and there was just hho gas going into the inlet manifold through a bubbler... Just DC straight from the battery... There were several other things that he had fitted to the engine like a bank of three solenoids near the front on the left of his HHO cell pictured below... They were all just red herrings to throw people looking at it off the scent...  lol



He was arrested but never imprisoned... The powers that be wanted some bad publicity at the time to counteract all mine about cars running on water... He had taken some money from an investor... But then it was said that he was paid $1 million to 'continue his research' but never divulge his secrets (which is why I presume he lived till 84 and died a natural death)... So he was stuck between a rock and a hard place as he couldn't actually release the technology to his investor. I don't know all the ins and outs of it but if he had been paid $1 million he should have just refunded his investor so maybe that's why he was arrested.

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/inquirerheadlines/nation/view/20081220-179008/Inventor-82-gets-20-years-for-estafa

You know how the media works and headlines like:

Daniel Dingel water powered car "inventor" gets 20 years for fraud

 People understandably presume that it was because his water-powered car didn't work... But if you read the full story it was for not divulging his secrets to his investor...

"In his defense, Dingel said he backed out of talks with the Taiwanese after he was pressured to divulge details of his project, which he said he refused to do to protect his invention (and his life).

Dingel said that after touring the plant in Taipei he was invited to become the company's consultant and was asked to tour Formosa Plastics Group plants in Texas. He said he declined for fear for his life.

I declined because I know another inventor of a water-fueled car had been murdered, he said, referring to Stan Meyer, who allegedly received threats from oil companies and was allegedly poisoned in 1998 because of his pioneering invention."

All the best

ethospete...

Quote from FaradayEZ on October 19th, 2012, 04:24 PM

Hi Pete,

I'm glad you had some results to keep the spark alive on this project.
Be careful with your back though, i know those troubles and use some exercises to keep it away.

I still think that if you want to drive only on water you still need the moisture.

Burning only HHO isn't good for the engine. Plus you have to overrun your HHO cells, even with two to get the production needed.

So you will waste electricity on that and have to use electricity to deal with the heat. Its not a self sustaining setup that way. And proving it can is not proving it can run 15 minutes... at least i think. Next you order extra alternators, and will blow them out by overusing.

I think the way to go is first to establish how much HHO do you need to keep the motor running. Including moisture-air.
Then to produce that amount as efficient as possible

It would still be a whole 100% water car that way!!

But you knew my take on it already.

Still its a good project to get to know all this stuff in practice. :)

Hi EZ

Many thanks for your kind words and concerns about my back... I'm resting it up now and may wait till the new cell etc. arrives, which will probably be the end of next week, before resuming the work on it.

How would you recommend introducing water into the equation...? Maybe as steam...? Could boil a kettle with a hose connected to it and feed it into the air filter box maybe and see if that makes any improvements.

 Once it is running we can then start work trying to fine tune it and improve it.

Until the EPG unit is replicated it's looking more and more like an electric/hho hybrid... lol We can recharge the batteries from the mains overnight and then run it during the day.

As I've said all along this is in no way meant to be a practical application, just to categorically prove that it is possible and Daniel and Stan were right.  :)  Hopefully that will be a catalyst in speeding up the release of their suppressed technologies soon.

All the best

ethospete...  

This could be useful too - anyone heard of it before and used it...? and/or know where to order some..?

HHO "Quenching Tube" info

http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,2014.msg20194.html

Quote

The tubing is known as Multi Lumen Tubing and can be custom made (extruded)
 
 The diameter we need to shoot for is .015" maximum per passage
 
 here is a link                 http://www.dukeextrusion.com/capabilities.html
 
 stan used this multipassage tubing to deliver the Hydroxy gases safely throughout the vehicle
 
 modern technology can produce a more capable delivery tube with better flow than his original as shown in the photo attached
 
 remember the compression fitting ferrule must squeeze down on the tubing and thats why his tubing was configured the way it was
 
 there should be a way maybe multiple tubings in parallel to get more gases to the desired location
 post your drawings or ideas here and any price quotes or contact info for other companies !

I couldn't readily see anything on the link provided... Nor find the photo they said that they had attached... :)

But it does sound like something that we need... Hi again EZ

I've been doing some more research into adjusting the burn rate of the HHO - Extract below from Stan's 1997 Denver lecture video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ai4cwwdHM8U

http://www.alexpetty.com/2011/06/13/stan-meyer-water-as-fuel-lecture-in-denver-on-may-1997/

(20:03) Next in the invention was to learn how to adjust the burn rate of the hydrogen oxygen gases. Normally when you combust hydrogen and oxygen the burn rate is around 325 centimeters/second. But in order to adjust the burn rate to co-equal that of the fossil fuels, if I am able to do this, to accomplish it, then I would have a retrofit system that we can retrofit to every internal combustion engine in existence and therefore maintain the economies of the world.



(21:33) This shows a hydrogen and oxygen flame that is being adjusted to around 37 cm/sec. Most generally if you remember your high school chemistry days when you light the gas it goes FFFUHFAH, its burning at 325 cm/sec. You got your igniting the gas and the flame is being sustained and maintained from ordinary natural water with a temperature of well over 5000 degrees plus.



(21:54) In order to do this, there is a characteristic of water that water is also like a sponge; it will absorb ambient air. The natural waters around the world will have anywhere from 9 to 11 percent of ambient air, the bulk of ambient air composed of non-combustible gases like nitrogen and argon other gases and as a result when you pull apart the water molecule from water, you are also releasing the ambient air with non-combustible gases and so it’s a multi-gas generator and it automatically adjusts the burn rate down to around 47 centimeters/second. So we are now using the water as a gas mixing regulator. Now if I am using the water as a gas mixing regulator, is it costing me anything? Now, so far, under the law of economics, if I am using ordinary rain water, I don’t process the water in anyway, I don’t add any chemicals into the water, is it costing me anything? The political system has been trying to find ways of how to tax rain water. And of course I am not interested to get into that discussion with them. Secondly, voltage zones are composed of stainless steel materials which is chemically inert to the process. So under lab actual certification testing the longevity is like .0001 per year. So if any of you people live for about 10,000 years, come back and tell me, but normally you would not have to replace the voltage zones so I am still complying with the law of economics, right? If I am restricting current flow down the minimum and I am raising voltage higher well then, is it costing me very much in electrical power in order to split the water molecule? Now this does not create energy. The only thing we are doing is developing the ability to release the energy from water.



(23:31) Now we found the ability to adjust the hydrogen burn rate to any burning level from fossil fuels all the way on down to burning leaves and paper. We’ve developed now the ability for anti-spark back by using the mixture of the gas with non-combustible gases that somewhere along the line in that tube which we call a quenching circuit, the non-combustible gas separates the hydrogen and oxygen gases and as a result as you terminate the gas generation there’s no spark ignition going back into the resonant cavity.





(24:03) And you have that spark arrestor irregardless of gas pressure or volume.



(24:10) This gives you an example of the burn rate. To understand it, if I put hydrogen and ambient air into it and ignited one end, the rate of burn is roughly around 325 cm/sec. If I put natural gas and ambient air in it and ignite the gas, it burn at around 47 cm/sec. So it became very obvious that if I now mix the hydrogen and the oxygen gas with non-combustible gases that do not support the burning process, then I can adjust the burn rate of the hydrogen gas to co-equal that of the fossil fuels.



(24:43) That was the number one major invention that allowed us now to go ahead and retrofit to any internal combustion engine or any device that’s absolutely been running on fossil fuel. We now have a very economical way of doing this using ordinary water. Now the byproduct of burning water, anybody know? Is water! And as a result of that, automatically in doing this we are solving the environmental pollution problem. If you’re running a car on water in the example, you no longer are putting chemical oxides in the air from the byproduct of burning the fossil fuels. That water mist being expelled out of the system is environmentally safe.



(25:21) We had to be able to adjust the burn rate to lower than the 5,000 degrees it shows on the video tape. You have to get a little practical about this because if you put that type of flame on the stove and your wife decides, “I want to do some cooking”, but you burn holes in her pots and pans. I’m afraid the sell job would be a little bit harder. So you have to be practical about it.



(25:46) So that “learned us” the abilities to adjust the burn rate. Now that gave us the abilities to develop the technology to run an internal combustion engine off of water. As an engineer, you look at the engine in three ways. Number 1, it’s a mechanical drive device. It got us here today. Secondly, is it not an air pump? It pumps the air through the engine and out the exhaust. Thirdly, is it not a manufacturer of non-combustible gases? And the answer is yes because when the ambient air goes through the engine at the low temperature of combustion, it’s not going into the plasma state and so the non-combustible gases of air has very little effect to the combustion process. It does not alter it in any way, yet we take the non-combustible gases from air and electronically meter mix it back into the fuel gases from the water and therefore you can adjust the burn rate to co-equal the fossil fuels. Now, in the law of economics, how much does it cost me for air? Anybody can tell me it’s still free right? So I still got rain, water is free. I still have ambient air that’s free.



(26:48) Here was another billion dollar patent that was developed. Prior art said that the only way you could transport hydrogen was cool it down to 465 degrees below zero, put it under pressure and truck it down the road expending diesel fuel. All we need to do is take ambient air, mix it, expose it to a flame, to create the non-combustible gases, mix it with the hydrogen, and we can adjust the hydrogen burn rate equal to or less than that of natural gas and transport to any gas grid system anywhere in the economy – without even changing a valve.



Meyer's tells us from beyond the grave...

"it’s going to have to be mandated by the people..."

...and to:

"Come together to bring it in..."



(51:54) We can demonstrate the technology. We can say it’s here but in actuality it will not be Stan Meyers to bring it in. It will be either you or I, the guy down the street, who will come together to bring it in. Otherwise, I do not believe an alternate energy source, whether water fuel cell or other, would ever come in. It’s going to have to be mandated by the people to try to reverse the environmental problems, the environmental damage, that’s actually occurring.

Quote from ethospete on October 20th, 2012, 07:17 AM

How would you recommend introducing water into the equation...? Maybe as steam...? Could boil a kettle with a hose connected to it and feed it into the air filter box maybe and see if that makes any improvements.

Yes, that's a simple way of testing it in the garage. And maybe put a valve on it as to regulate. And also put a valve on the incomming HHO into the airfilter. And also block the air intake with a valve.
(But watch out that you don't build up to high pressure's!)
That way you can regulate the total mixture going into the engine.

How much HHO
How much air
How much waterdamp

Even how much exhaust gas later on if wanted

And do these variables stay the same when going into higher rpm's?

And find a way to measure the ingoing volumes of the different components.

Oh and EPG? Sorry i'm not a believer in that. :-/

 

Quote

Meself:
I think the way to go is first to establish how much HHO do you need to keep the motor running. Including moisture-air.
 Then to produce that amount as efficient as possible

If you can fill something with HHO.. like a smaller drum upside down in a bigger drum filled with water. Then after filling you push the little drum with some weights a bit down as to get a bit of pressure.

Then via a hose with valve you bring it to the airintake

In smaller seize this is like a volumetester, with this bigger seize you can find out how much hho you need per minute?

Thanks for reposting this Ethos, it made me see something I hadn't paid attention to before, Stan is not using HHO in his injector nozzle. He has a hydrogen inlet, then an air, then at the front the oxygen.  Makes it far easier to meter each individual flow and thereby the burn mix rate.  Strikes me that a HHO split cell and some simple nozzle engineering could replicate the principle on a small scale.  Also fits with the KISS method, measure and adjust each flow independently to achieve a specific output in real time.  To all those people who already saw this as blindingly obvious, my apologies. Sometimes takes a while for things to fall in place for me!

Working it all into the airintake is ok, but scientifically better would it be if you use a see through cylinder on the workbench.

Like a plexi glass canon...say 1 meter long and with measure stripes on it.

On 1 side you enter like lpg gas..at the end of the tube there is a candle..

You have your webcam or so looking at it all.

Then "WOOOssHHH" happens (don't forget to give the LPG also its airmixture)

You check your video images and see this gas/air mixture has a burnrate of x meters per second...etc..etc..

Hi Guys
Man have i missed some stuff here.Been flat out with the pulse motor build of-along with Russ.
Anyway i have some questions-or a question
Why are people so intent on reduceing the cell temp?
First up,the hotter the water,the less amp's it takes to disasociate the hydrogen and oxygen atoms.
The reason you see an amp draw gain as the water gets hotter is because the higher the temp of the water-the better it conducts current.
So why not reduce the electrolite or remove it altogether,and lift the temp of the water?
The other thing is-why are people concerned with steam passing through into the engine with the HHO.
Steam is a good thing when running on HHO-it reduces pinging and the timeing dosnt have to be retarded as much.
It also increases the burn time of the HHO.

On another note-why dose everyone insist on useing DC ? why not use AC insted
It makes more sence to me to rock the voltage back and forth within the cell,rather than trying to push it in one direction.

Now that the pulse motor build off is near finished,i will be returning back to work on my motor generator setup.
I have an idea for an AC duel phase water capacitor that would also produce HHO.
The way this setup works,it wouldnt draw any more current or power from the prime mover that is driveing the generator.

I will keep you guys up to speed on how this turns out,and if its a win-then we can go from there.
If it's a dud,then we have learnt how not to do it lol.

  Cheers guys

Hi Guys
Man have i missed some stuff here.Been flat out with the pulse motor build of-along with Russ.
Anyway i have some questions-or a question
Why are people so intent on reduceing the cell temp?
First up,the hotter the water,the less amp's it takes to disasociate the hydrogen and oxygen atoms.
The reason you see an amp draw gain as the water gets hotter is because the higher the temp of the water-the better it conducts current.
So why not reduce the electrolite or remove it altogether,and lift the temp of the water?
The other thing is-why are people concerned with steam passing through into the engine with the HHO.
Steam is a good thing when running on HHO-it reduces pinging and the timeing dosnt have to be retarded as much.
It also increases the burn time of the HHO.

On another note-why dose everyone insist on useing DC ? why not use AC insted
It makes more sence to me to rock the voltage back and forth within the cell,rather than trying to push it in one direction.

Now that the pulse motor build off is near finished,i will be returning back to work on my motor generator setup.
I have an idea for an AC duel phase water capacitor that would also produce HHO.
The way this setup works,it wouldnt draw any more current or power from the prime mover that is driveing the generator.

I will keep you guys up to speed on how this turns out,and if its a win-then we can go from there.
If it's a dud,then we have learnt how not to do it lol.

  Cheers guys

Quote from FaradayEZ on October 21st, 2012, 04:17 AM

Like a plexi glass canon...say 1 meter long and with measure stripes on it.

Yes, this has always been one of my favourite HHO videos too:  :)

MARCHLABS M13 HHO ROCKET LAUNCHER

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSXcV-r1Ifs
300,000V Ignition system, 532 Nm green laser targeting system

This is an amazing demonstration of the amount of energy produced from a relatively small amount of HHO gas.

And it also highlights why safety must always be of paramount importance when working with HHO gas.

Maybe Russ can put one together for testing purposes...  ;)

Enjoy!  :D

ethospete...