coil capacitor using voltage and current impulses

evostars

odd for c2 even for c1
« Reply #350, on June 23rd, 2023, 10:02 PM »
C1 and C2 must be equal in size,
because both at resonant with L2.
C1 is only resonant with L2 when it its charged up by L1,
When C1 is shorted out bu the mosfet switch it cant be resonant with L2 as it is grounded.

C2 is at a odd resonance.
But C1 could be made smaller than C2, to make it resonant at a even harmonic.
This will give a higher discharge voltage. I need to see if that is possible.
I dont think so, as the L2 than has more than one frequency.
But, in the end it could work, as L3 gives a single sub harmonic, on which both harmonics work.

So C1 can be made smaller, to give a higher voltage.
if C2 gives the 3rd odd harmonic, C1 could give the 4th harmonic.


evostars

another dream of 2 currents out of phase
« Reply #352, on July 4th, 2023, 07:50 PM »
So it appears we now have 2 kinds of current
which together can produce power.
tonight I dreamed about how they need to be 180 degrees out of phase, with the load connected in between them.
load could be rectified dc cap.

so what I now have is the dielectric displacement current in L3.

I need another coil with a magnetic conventional current, probably induced form L1.
so probably also resonant L4. but magnetic current.

L3 is then the negative while L4 is the positive
when both currents come together power is produced.

This also might explain why my extra coil experiments had the voltage in phase with the current, as it was a dielectric displacement current.
But that one was very easily detuned due to the small capacity

Now I use large parallel caps which increases impedance and frequency stability.
thus L4 should also be grounded and have a parallel tuning cap. Might be best to let L3 and L4 face eachother, but loose couple. to mix and lock their fields in opposite phase.

new video does very well.

https://youtu.be/kbHDHiAQrrs

evostars

loose coupling L3 to L1, current in mid air
« Reply #353, on July 6th, 2023, 06:24 AM »
I again measure current with my pintek probe, IN MID AIR near the coils.
Weird!!!

I loose coupled L1 to L3.
it detunes slightly, current draw seems to change slightly.

When L1 L3 are counter rotating, the phase remains the same.

but when L1 is flipped over (so both coils are same direction wound)
Then the phase of L2 L3 is flipped! causing the C1 discharge to be on the positive maximum of L2, infact charging the voltage up higher within a flash.

This was with a coupling of around 3 cm , pretty loose.


evostars

collection of free info
« Reply #354,  »
Mikhail is his name
dum@K on telegram
Fabon on overunity.com

he shared this with me
https://we.tl/t-uH8vkO3YV4
1.1GB of mostly Russian free electricity devices, but also english. some pdfs
very interesting stuff.

link is still 6 days valid

evostars

Re: coil capacitor using voltage and current impulses
« Reply #355,  »
My L2 C1 C2 resonance is now discharged at the wrong maximum. so I should tune it to a even harmonic to get more voltage at the discharge.

But... since I previously used the charge and discharge, of C1 I needed an odd harmonic.

so with an even harmonic... I should try to get L3 to a much higher frequency, without a capacitor? tune it to the 60ns discharge?
hmm

Instead of L2 L3 I could also use capacitor plates on a roll, and wind a solonoid on top of those plates.

lets first see if I can use the even harmonic to get the voltage higher, with L3 having a small cap or no cap

evostars

L2 c1 c2 even harmonic series parallel resonance
« Reply #356,  »
I used the same caps again for C1 and C2 (both near 2nF) but I removed C3 from L3.
green shows the C1/source voltage
Yellow the L2/C2 voltage at inside rim
orange is L3 (not tuned) on inside rim.

I aimed to get the highest voltage discharge from C1. and compared it to driving it at an even or odd harmonic (below the L2 c2 c1 resonant frequency)

Clear is that indeed the even harmonics give the best results for highest voltage discharge.
With the 4th sub harmonic of L2C2c1 at 39.7kc/s  I also get less discharges through the mosfet, which gives it more time to cool off (less impulses to warm up also).
also the resonant energy of L2 is less, which does not increase the voltage much. but that can be compensated my L3 voltage.

The question then becomes.... Can I then tune L3 to a Odd harmonic while L2 is at an even harmonic? Since I still have the charge and discharge. L3 voltage will need to be high for the coil cap to charge and discharge.
As long as the voltaage of the coil cap is high during the discharge is the goal.

Ill need to play with that further.

scr533 is at 33.0kc/s 0.68A 12.1Vdc 5th harmonic
SCR534 is at 39.7 kc/s 0.83A 17.5Vdc PSU 4th harmonic (even)
scr531 is the 3rd harmonic at 54.6 kc/s 0.47A 14.1Vdc PSU
scr532 is the second harmonic (very unclear) F=82.6kc/s 0.69A 25.8Vdc PSU (also a good discharge of 400V)
scr530 is the base frequency sine wave (odd harmonic) at f=163.9kc/s 0.4A 25.2Vdc PSU with a small 70V discharge

So I could drive it at the frequency of L2 but I would need a much higher PSU to get the impulses higher in voltage.
They are more often. which is ok, but this will heat up the mosfets.

 SCR533.PNG - 42.72 kB, 1280x824, viewed 5 times.

 SCR534.PNG - 39.81 kB, 1280x824, viewed 4 times.

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 SCR530.PNG - 41.06 kB, 1280x824, viewed 5 times.


evostars

added C3 back
« Reply #357,  »
I kept the frequency at the 4th harmonic of L2 c1 c2, Although this will now be detuned by adding C3 again to L3.
f=39.7kc/s
C3 is made 51,4nF and produces a single sine wave with L3 which is also a odd harmonic.
PSU=11.4V 0.52A dc so around 11W (low)
discharge voltage is around 200V (low)
L2 L3 coil cap discharge is from 500V (scr537) to 291V (scr538) so 209V (but at a higher energy level)

L3 already produces a sine wave of 400V peak to peak with its 51.4nF parallel capacitor. which is very high.
current I did not yet measure. because;

L2 C1 C2 now clearly shows the wobbles again. And not the even 4th harmonic as it did before without C3 attached to L3.

So the frequency now again needs to be tuned, so that L2C1C2 is at the 4th even harmonic. and at the same time.
but also the C3 needs to be adjusted to the new freqeuncy, so that L3C3 becomes resonant.

I add impedance to the system, so the 4th resonant freqeuncy is probably slower, in charge and discharge, so it means a lower freqeuncy.
Lets see If I can find it, and adjust C3 accordingly, and then measure the voltage and current of L3C3

 SCR536.PNG - 39.13 kB, 1280x824, viewed 5 times.

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 SCR538.PNG - 41.22 kB, 1280x824, viewed 5 times.


evostars

weird.
« Reply #358,  »
weird...
When C3 becomes bigger, the voltage becomes bigger.
This is still a riddle to me.
But, when looked from the standpoint, of displacement current,
It flows through the isolator.
So high impedance.
and more capacity, is more capacitive reactance, thus more impedance,
and the dielectric current loves this.
that is so weird. but. good.

I tried tuning L3C3 to a sub harmonic, but even or uneven, it is never as good as the base harmonic, single sine wave per square wave. 1:1
And that means it is at a odd harmonic.
Fine by me if it works it works. So, odd works, odd harmonics it is.

Then... next...
I do not believe L2 is still resonant.
L2 just mirrors the voltage of L3,
And since L3 has such large impedance it forces L2 to mirror (since L3 is flipped).

So, then the question becomes, when does L2 really become series parallel resonant with C1 and C2?
I simply should change C3 step by step, and simultaniously change the freqyency. until L2 shows a resonant responce, which is not  only a mirror of L3/c3 but has a amplitude gain, from being resonant with C1 and C2.

That is fairly easy to do. switch and tune. until the amplitude of L2 changes.
Now is the time I wish I had an auto tuner. as that would greatly simpify this.
but I haven't and I still dont know how...
Hmmm. Maybe I do. L3 produces a proper sine wave, so I should be able to use PLL.
Lets find some help with this.

evostars

Re: coil capacitor using voltage and current impulses
« Reply #359,  »Last edited
C1 will be connected to L2 on the series connection between its 2 windings.
Makes more sense to have the voltage difference there.

I wrote L1 on the picture, should be L2

would also make sense to ground L3 on the series connection?

 20230710_114711.jpg - 2253.78 kB, 4032x2268, viewed 5 times.


evostars

Re: coil capacitor using voltage and current impulses
« Reply #360,  »Last edited
I Close coupled L4 to L1 and grounded L4 with outside rim to V+ (earth ground).
I tuned C3 resonatant with 21nF at f=59.6kc/s
C2 =C1 is 198opF
I tuned L4 to give maximum current, with C4 parallel to L4=37nF

Now the PSU needs to work harder as it magnetic induces parallel resonance (high impedance) in L4 C4.
PSU=1.39A 20V. =27,8W (Less power flows into C1 as the magnetic field energy is powering L4 C4)

green= L4 C4 current (inside rim)
yellow= C1 source
orange= C3 L3 voltage inside rim.

Note how there is a much bigger inflow of current, at the turn ON of the mosfets.

I also measured currents in mid air again, also above L1/L4  even higher, then the cable clamped current probe.
I did not expect this. Would this mean the negative spike, is again a inflow of dielectric curretn from earth ground?

I wonder if I again should place a diode between the V+ of the PSU and the DRain of the mosfets?

scr540 is with L4 grounded to V-  (with 3uF over V+ and V-)
SCR539 is with L4 grounded to V+ (earth ground).
I see no real differneces.
Note how the current of L4 has an interesting phase relationship with the voltage of L3

note how yellow now really shows a slow charge (when mosfets turn off)
and a very fast discharge (when mosfets turen on and short C1 out).
The large current inflow, is right after the strong displacement current.

I wonder... If I would decrease the size of C3 and C4, I could go up in freqeuncy, and match that negative curretn spike in duration.
As now the positive half seems to be longer in duration, and thus lower in current. When perfectly tuned, the current would be much higher, and at a higher freqeuncy.

This is VERY INTERESTING!

L1/L4  and L2/L3 are not coupled. 7cm separated

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 SCR540.PNG - 42.37 kB, 1280x824, viewed 3 times.

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evostars

Tuning L4
« Reply #361,  »Last edited
scr543 shows L3 in orange L2 in yellow, and L4 current in green. This is at a very low power setting. PSU only 3.2V
currents quickly run high (still untuned).

I loose coupled L4 to L3 with around 22mm separtation, so in the 4 coil stack, L3 is counter rotating relative to the rest.
It again shows the negative current amplification like before, which is still not matched to the rest of the current sine wave of L4

C4=37nF  scr542  f=102.9 kc/s

C4=57nF  scr541 f=84.6 kc/s

C3=21nF C1=C2=1980pF

Both measured at around 52.6kc/s (tuned to max negative current L4
green is the L4 current at inside rim connection to parallel C4

So making C4 much bigger, could reach the desired frequency whereby L4 negative current bump matches the positive current half wave of L4, and thus match L3.

I can also reduce the capacity of L3 to shift the resonant frequency to a higher value.
But... I could also closer couple, which will increase the frequency in case of the LMD mode, but... This is the TEM mode, so it will actually decrease in frequency. So closer coupling, will demand for even smaller caps.

Maybe, I should first determine, the max current of C3 L3, as this depends on the C3 size (more current AND votlage! with bigger C3)
Then proceed with L4 tuning, to match C3L3 frequency.
And start with coupling set at 15mm.

The stack now is:
L1-L4-----3L-L2
whereby 3L is the flipped over L3

This tuning is.... hmm... a challenge.
But I can do it.
The question then becomes, how do I explain how to tune it once it is tuned...

 SCR541.PNG - 29.69 kB, 1280x824, viewed 3 times.

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evostars

Re: coil capacitor using voltage and current impulses
« Reply #363,  »
Instead of grounding L4 on V+ or V-(earth),
I can also ground the outside rim L4 on the inside rim of L3.
This series connection is then also where the load would be inserted

evostars

Re: coil capacitor using voltage and current impulses
« Reply #364,  »Last edited
I series connected outside rim L4 to inside rim L3 instead of grounding L4 on V+ or V-
I kept the cap size the same as previous experiment.
I now had to detune the L2 so the discharge was not at the max voltage point. (yellow)


orange= L3 inside rim
green = L4 inside rim current

note how L3 orange is slightly faster rising then it is falling

C4 bigger, will prolonging the duration of negative current,
While C3 smaller will shorten the total period

 SCR545.PNG - 44.64 kB, 1280x824, viewed 5 times.


evostars

Re: coil capacitor using voltage and current impulses
« Reply #365,  »
scr546 green is current  L4 inside rim,
scr547 green is current in is series connection between L3 and L4

I enlarged C4 to max=61nF and made C3 smaller to 16nF.
PSU now becomes 1.81A at 9.6V when on. But when turned off voltage is set to 9.2V!!!
ANOMALY PSU voltage is HIGHER when turned on
So I should again use a diode to block?

tuned to f=46.8kc/s
note how crooked L3 wave now is.
Frequency is set by C4/L4, Which is largest and has largest impedance.
 C3 did not rise the frequency  I dropped 13kc/s

current between L3 L4 is low and irregular

So tuning with C3 probably only works, when the impedance is higher then C4.
or in other words, if C3 is bigger than C4.
SO.... I think I should reduce the coupling distance between L4 and L3, and see if the frequency drops or gains.
It should drop... but... does it?

 SCR546.PNG - 44.77 kB, 1280x824, viewed 5 times.

 SCR547.PNG - 43.68 kB, 1280x824, viewed 5 times.


evostars

L4 needs to be flipped
« Reply #366,  »
I measured current, and noticed, L3 was completely 180 phase reversed, probably due to the high current magnetic field of L4.
So I conclude, L4 need to be phase reversed and flipped over, to get it right.
This also explains why the PSU amps are so high at a low voltage. as the energy is trying to flow "up stream"

These tests are with L4 outR grounded on V+(earth)


scr548:
This was an error measurement, as L3 inside rim was not connected to the C3, (orange probe was on C3).
PSU:2,29A 4,5V
C3=31nF C4=41nF
How could it still measure that same voltage!?!?!?!? on C3, while L3 was not connected to it :shocked:
green = L4 C4 current on inside rim
yellow= L2/C2 inside rim
orange: C3 (L3 not connected!)

SCR549
Connected L3 inside rim  to C3, and retuned, cap sizes are the same.
tuned for max voltage L3
PSU= 0.99A  4,5V dc
f=77.3kc/s
green is current L3 ,pointing to coil

SCR550 Same settings, but measured current of L4 inside rim (green)

SCR551 Tuned to max current in L4 (higher up)
f=88.3kc/s PSU= 2.23A 4.5V

The current of L4 now much more approaches the sine wave that I want to see. still not fully there.
Flip L4 over....

Since I use equal size coils, I might need equal size caps for C3 and C4

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evostars

L3 L4 still not tuned to same freq
« Reply #367,  »Last edited
I flipped L4 over, so now both L3 and L4 are flipped over.
Still L3 looked to be reversed, but, it seems to be caused by not being tuned right.

With C3=31nf and C4=41nF the resonant frequencies of L3 and L4 are split apart.

scr555
L4 is resonant at 85.1kc/s so C4 should be larger
PSU=2.09A 4.5V

scr554
L3 is resonant at 52.3 kc/s so C3 should be smaller
PSU=1.15A 4.5V

So When tuned I probably need to flip L4 back, to get the phase right

Funny to realise, C4 which is now 41 should be larger
and C3 which is now 31nF should be smaller,
To get both coils (L3 L4) to the same frequency.
The coils are the same size, but obviously have very different field speeds.

I would expect the transverse (L4) to be slower, and needing a smaller cap , but.. instead it needs to be bigger
and the other L3 being longitudinal (faster) would need a bigger cap to slow down, but needs a smaller cap!

LOGIC??? :-X

also compared with the earlier tests which had C4 bigger at 61nf instead of 41, the frequency was lower but the 2 halves didn't match. So... the only real option is to reduce size of C3.

still 35kc/s apart, that is a large gap to bridge.
Making C3 much smaller, will reduce its current also.
The coils are still to loose coupled. So... lets get them closer

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evostars

rougly tuned
« Reply #368,  »
I rougly tuned L3 and L4 to the same freqeuncy of 110.0kc/s
PSU=0.22A 4.5V (very low)
scr560 shows the L3 in organge L4 current in green and C2L2 in yellow.
L3 and L2 are again phase reversed. So I am going to flip L4 back to its normal clockwise possition. Only L3 will be flipped.
With C4=61nF (maxed) and C3=8nF it seemed to tune both coils to almost the same frequency

 SCR560.PNG - 42.03 kB, 1280x824, viewed 5 times.


evostars

Re: coil capacitor using voltage and current impulses
« Reply #369,  »
I don't seem to get it tuned. it still phase shifts.
So... Instead of Flipping L3 over, I will flip L2 over.
Since L2 and L3 are already cast in epoxy,
I will flip both L1 and L4 over, Together with the L3 flipped over, this results in effectively having L2 only flipped over.

evostars

L2 close to L1
« Reply #370,  »
Hmm since I need to rebuild the coil stack...
I never tried coupling L2 to L1, to see what that does! would it reduce power consumption from the PSU?

evostars

remove L4
« Reply #371,  »
For now, I will remove L4 again from the stack of pancake coils.
the high impedance of its parallel resonance with C4, only increases the psu current.

Instead since L1 already has a magnetic field, I will see how the coupling of L3 and L1 influences the PSU current.

evostars

Re: coil capacitor using voltage and current impulses
« Reply #372,  »
I STILL havent tested L2 close coupled to L1.
and it doesnt make a lot of sense, but I need to test it before I can let it go.
L1 will produce a magnetic field.
L2 will induce the strong displacement current, And become resonant, with the 2nF
So the impedance load on L1 would be low.

 a carton pipe, with 2 pieces (1:2) metal foil on it
 those are capacitor plates. the mosfet causes high dV/dt since it doesn't have barely has any inductance.
on top of the foil is wound a coil.
This is a bifilar coil (not a pancake because it needs symmetry)
The series connection of the 2 windings of the bifilar L1 coil, is switched open by the mosfet.
The 2 windings are connected to the mosfet through SiC diodes.
The discharge of the magnetic field, charges up the C1 capacitor, Which is connected to the 2 plates, under the coil.

So when the mosfet is opened up, it turns L1 into 2 separate coils,
that are close coupled to each other, and are also close coupled to the capacitor plates.

the L1 bifilar, can only be resonant for a half wave, due to the diodes.

I don't know where this will lead to , as there is no earth ground. So If 2 other coils would be connected to the C1 capacitor, and close coupled like capacitor plates, what would happen?

just spinning my mind here

 bifilar series switched.png - 152.93 kB, 3614x1080, viewed 7 times.


evostars

Re: coil capacitor using voltage and current impulses
« Reply #373,  »
Damn, I feel lost again.
While my latest video is doing so well,
I feel lost.
How to proceed?

the holy trinity
capacitor, inductor, resistor

capacitance, inductance, impedance

voltage, displacement current, conventional current.

time and space
dielectric and magnetic

all these combined in the right way, generate power. but how?

evostars

parametric resonance; close coupled L1 L2
« Reply #374,  »Last edited
I removed the L4 and L1 individual coils, and used the epoxy cast close coupled L2 L3,
As the L1 L2 coils.
So to be clear, L2 is still L2, But L3 now acts as L1.

yellow=C1/source
orange=C2/L2
green=L1 current

SCR573
PSU=0.36A  11.8V  =4.25W
f=73.1kc/s

SCR574
PSU=0.33A 11.8V =3.89W
f=85.6kc/s

So I had c1=c2=1980pF, whereby C2 is parallel to L2, as in previous experiments. no L3, L4 coils.
I tuned to 2 different frequencies, which both gave that large negative voltage halfwave at the L2/C2 orange.
It seems, that once C1 is charged up, by the L1 coil discharge,
C1 becomes resonant with C2/L2
And somehow... L2C2 reaches a much higher negative voltage.
So C1 is clearly not resonant when it is discharged by the mosfet switch.
But once charged, C1 becomes part of the L2 C2 resonance,
Which is a series parallel resonant mode.

But... why, is that voltage so negative?

The power is low, but so is the load, the C2L2 parallel resonant impedance is little, because c2 is small (1980pF)

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