Merging Vic and Daughter Board

We are showing the steps to merge boards sand hard wire traces.

Note

this one due to the db37 we moved the feedback coil start  and finish pins  pins and cells primary start  and finish pins
vix extebsion to 2 new screw terminals on right to make it easy to connect and follow

Gerb v1

v2 will have better screw terminal placement and more silk noted and labels which will be easier to read  etc
coming soon
Dan

Dan if you look at the large wring diagram earlier in the other thread.  You will see one side of wire going to Primary comes from K21 through the 2n3055 on the daughter board.  The other side of of the Primary comes from K9 but goes through TIP120 on daughter board.

I think what is confusing you is the terminals on daughter board being label cell.  The are really not cell yet as signal at this point has not gone to primary coil and from a quick look and my study of daughter board the other day I have not seen the VIC Coil output anywhere.  It's the output from the 2 choke which are the input to the cells.

What you also have is two test leads coming back to VIC that go to test point.

In my test systems I moved both diodes and resistor to the terminals going to primary coil so this was clear and picked up test returns from there as well.

The cell pads make sense when the Daughter board is located with all the coils as the chokes output go to Cell pads.

At some point we need to make sure the signals go through the two diodes which I believe happens on the bottom of VIC board.

I thinks as laid out Cell pads should be labeled Pri S and Pri T (transformer) and we need to bring missing side to the other pad.

It's is also possible that 220-ohm resistor at top board was for original 10 cell system to balance primary impendence yet is not hooked up in current VIC.  Which makes sense as these are bank boards from label on board just look at front panel.

This whole routing makes lot more sense when laid out in schematic to honest the traces for this are the one of things I am still unclear about.

Hi Earl

So the
 pins primary F   PIN 9   
primary S PIN 10 

on vic do they go through the daughter board?
late here eyes need rest did the traces and labels today on both merged

Summary of today

I moved pads
like this  and labelled
if any correction or delete or additions can you place /draw  on pictures below
 and I do in morning so we have accurate direction and things looking right

  if there is any trace missing from the (cell+ ? ) back to vic?
 or
any wiring can you place on diagrams here correct or diode resistor placement

I can complete the hard traces on merge
so corrected can you edit  this in ms paint?

Dan

Will do that.  Think I will need to draw it out for myself so I can see it. 

First thing that I see is easy one.  Add a third pad to FB there should be 3 lines going to FB Coil.  The 2 signal lines and +5-volts (DC bias I have mine wired to center of coil per 14 schematic).  I believe this is part of the reason 5 voltage regulator was located here (other being space).

The overview with addition shows 5 lines I have going to coils from my test setup.

ok noted
i read the coil  notes in doc, i was going to say we need to put a winding pictures for fb coil there
so people get it right

I will add the 3  fb coil pad and new trace

Dan

There is a couple of very good descriptions and long discussion on directions how to winding coils by Ronnie and others.  Short note is they are all wound the same direction and then hooked per the instructions.  Also S and F labels do not matter as long as all the coils are the same.  It does matter how they are hooked and it easy to get it wrong.

I do agree that would be I can point you to these references if you need it  ( Also in my one of thread connections notes)

Re 14 schematic
can you post that here 

VIC Pin 3 (FB.B.S) should go to one of the FB pads in Daughter board area
VIC Pin 16 (FB.B.F) should go to other FB pad in Daughter board area
It should not matter which pad as the Diodes in K14 with take care of side in return signal. Though to avoid confusion I would label pad to match source on VIC board.

confirm we have that on now


Dan

Connections on bottom of daughter board have a few problems
There should be no GND to Coils from VIC or Daughter board just signals so remove GND going to CELL after switch CELL and BAT label on left side. See first picture
 
We have not yet connected to the coils so there is no CELL connections.  That would come out of Chokes.
Change CELL C- and CELL C+ to PRI F and PRI S (You could just use the other landing pad and remove CELL ones)
Do to the High voltage on cell interfaces I would not bring them interfaces back to this board.  See second picture

There are a couple of more routing issue I will do in another post

I looked at the interface for VIC to daughter again to make sure I did not miss anything due it being redrawn.  While doing that I paid attend to direction of flow and that made things clearer to me.  So, I traced signal from item on schematic to input to Primary for each interface.  Results are below.  Have not yet looked at pin 9 interfaces.  Have not yet taken time to put them in table but you can see there are three things that need to be fixed.  Besides the other items above and it looks like you already fixed first one.

Doing it that way I could see the flow through the Diodes and also signal coming back to VIC board and switch before going to Primary

See picture

used picture to keep formation so you see thing easier.

Will look at 9 pin items tomorrow but one other item - On Vic Matrix make sure all the GNDs are tied together they are not on VIC board.

ok checking
all Making corrections and Changes
taking time to get it right but happening

Hi Earl Re this one
as it is alittle hard to  get right , I am reducing the labels and pads as advised

thank please re explain this one in a more fuller form
as we have  Primary S out  on Pin 10   and Primary F in on Pin  9  VIC PCB

I trying to understand how this is going to flow  from vic pins to daughter 
and which pins/ pads  to primary so i have it right

I delly due to the db 37 now we need to connect feedback coil and primary
to the screw terminals on daughter now  to ease assembly

I have moved them to closer to edge  make space

I made alot more correction changes  changes as per your notes
 just this one not firm as like to get the diagrams right


Dan 

Earl
Most changes checked again done
a question
Re this one
  Q3E to GND  Missing  ( is Q9 of K4)

I marked a red link on top slide sending the Q2e to ground   is that correct ?
or dices it have to go over to k4 on vic psb if so please show pin

Dan that routing of Primary lines work.  Things is you have options this shows 4 pads you really only need 2 if traces go to pads and there is a screw terminal there your are done.  Just need to make sure labels all match.  Route the lines the easiest way and put the correct label on those pads and your are done.

The direction of the routing is really already done on VIC boards by the time it got to card edge.  After that we just need to keep labels the same.

I guess the point I was trying to make was cell label on large pad was wrong and you could use these pads for Primary connection if that helped.  If you are planning to use screw terminals then you do not need them.

NOTE:  The Primary traces will be carrying 12 vdc I do not know is trace size is an issue. 

For reference I attached the tables I used to check connections

 Q3E to GND  Missing  ( is Q9 of K4).   The routing to GND you show is fine.   The reference to K4 and Q9 is just my checking the K4 schematic as it shows the proper connections to that TIP120. 

One thing we do need to make sure happens is all the GND need to be tied together including the daughter board area.  GNDs are not with traces currently on the VIC board.  Good place to do that is at the 39 pin connector.  Stan use jumpers on the VIC pads to do this.

ok i have noted all making changes

note
as there is  a few things moving around just need to note on  chart 
 if i have final red out red yo primary S correct?

from pin Q4Ec out via screw terminal to S primary
if this correct red out pin

the rest i have made changes and will post pics and gerber once this confirmed
also doing the  insert of db 37 into matrix main board to replace db 9
i do that
Dan

PS Great  chart helps and the confirming of  ins 9 and 10 helped so i hard wire them
assemble once correct will much easier now far less wiring to do.
Dan

Don't thing diagram above is correct.

Q4C goes to +12 VDC   The lower table is correct for Q3,Q4 and Q5

I should have only grab the smaller table the list below should have been used for rest.  My error.

Part of the problem I am have with this routing is S and F were not labeled on the big connection diagram.  Also I keep forget the the Q3C has the signal flowing into it from Diode IN5408 (I believe this is neg side of transform so should be S)

So if we start with S- on Test output pad at top center of board it goes down to left side of 1N5408 then through diode to Trace to Q3C as input.  From left side of 1N5408 it goes to VIC pin10 PRI-s and to daughter board PRI-S and to Primary coil.  That gives us both output to Coil and Test Pad at top and puts diode between Q3C and PRI-S  (and why diagram above is not correct) That's one side

Starting with Q4E it goes back to VIC Pin 6 then VARIABLE VOLTAGE Switch at top of VIC board When switch is closed it connect signal to F+ on Test output pad at top center it goes left side of Diode 1N4005 and to PRI-F VIC pin 9 and then to PR1- F pad in daughter board area and on to Primary Coil.   (That gives us both output to Coil and Test Pad at top.) 

This means the only lines for PRI-S and PRI-F are from VIC pins 10 and 9 and pads PRI-S and PR1-F on the daughter board.  The chips are per small table.

I have had more problems with this routing than any of the rest.  Hope this helps it did for me as I kept forgetting flow direction through Q3.

This routing would sure have been al lot clearer without the test lines.

I was just looking at VIC board and labels and I dawned on me why it made more sense when I did trace above.  You added the Q name to VIC labels and that made things clearer.  Thanks

Earl have to have a picture diagram as very hard to correctly interpret

1st Diagram is for your comment

Negative Side
the Q3C has the signal flowing into it from Diode IN5408  (I believe this is neg side of transform so should be S)

So if we start with S- on Test output pad at top center of board it goes down to left side of 1N5408 then through diode to Trace to Q3C as input.  From left side of 1N5408 it goes to VIC pin10 PRI-s and to daughter board PRI-S and to Primary coil.   
That gives us both output to Coil and Test Pad at top and puts diode between Q3C and PRI-S                                                       
  That's one side Negative