Dan it is already posted in WFC -  Collection of Posts From 2 Huge Treads About How WFC Works  https://open-source-energy.org/?topic=3431.msg52864#msg52864  There are 2 PDFs attached. (You should already have them as you asked me to put them into PDF instead of word documents).

There were 2 huge threads where Ronnie and others talked about designing VIC I copied what thought were the most important ones into these two documents. When I reference a topic  I generally get reference out these documents as I can quickly scan through them.  As both documents have the links back to the original threads you can quickly go to them and see other discussions around them who made post.  The posts with Re: highlighted in green are Ronnie's.  Please note:  I did not generate the information only collected it together for my own use.  I have made minor edits to make easier to read mostly spelling etc.

Between these two threads there are examples of all the math needed to balance impendence and resistance plus a lot hints about what works and why.  This is not short the work of others as I have read most all the other threads and made use of the information in them. 

Ronnie talks about tuning around resonance frequency to get max power into system.  I have noticed in my testing that while it looks like there should be a sync point around 5khz,as you can see in picture above the lock like does not come at when at low power.  However, I have seen it come on when I was testing high power though getting it to do that was a very minor change in frequency.  Only notice this as I had set frequency at 5khz and only changed gain.



 

As I mentioned above I could get my board to sync at lower frequency with a high gain setup. So I tried to do it again.  Start with 5khz and turned up offset to high level (still not sure best way to measure that).  I was watch in output of differential probe on cell and Digital input to Primary.  They stayed in sync but board did not lock when I zoomed out the shape was not the sync shape so I reduced the frequency until out put differential probe looked right  and board lite lock light lite up (I remember when I did this before sync was below 5khz and is at 3.788khz).  Note: my test system cokes are not correctly balanced and just using a capacitor for load.

The 4 pictures below show the signals when board is in sync.
CH1 - Yellow is the Digital signal into Primary coil and my reference signal
CH2 - Blue is the differential signal into Capacitor

Scope on CH1 and CH2 set to AC coupling
First picture is a looking inside a gate pulse at the individual pulses
Second picture same setting except zoomed out to see multiple gates pulses

Scope on CH1 and CH2 set to DC coupling - allows me to see the off DC offset and on input an idea offset setting  Note: Both signal move with this change. 
First picture is a looking inside a gate pulse at the individual pulses
Second picture same setting except zoomed out to see multiple gates pulses

Things are starting to be repeatable which is good news.  Though I an still trying to figure out a reliable way to know exact offset value.  Pot is multiple turn so does not provide an idea of value.  DC offset is best  way I found so far but when you look at analog signal into Primary coil it jumps around so hard to know what the offset is.

Guess what I am trying to say is I use both AC and DC view when setting things.

I think I finally figure to see setting the input offset (voltage) using a method I can see exactly where I am at.  Having the differential probe helped as at times I was getting cross talk when I had both normal probes on input to primary.  Also, at higher offset the analog input to primary gets so noisy that it was useless in trying to see what was happening to signal.   While I had seen the digital signal grow with gain in the past it never stayed level on bottom.  So, with digital signal stable I looked at gain again this time starting from max gain as that is where I had left system.

One thing I did notice when I turned system back on It took several seconds for lock light to come on, I believe that is mainly due to delay in phase lock system.  It also means it is not the best thing to use when looking for lock as you need to wait seconds between each change.

When I changed offset, I notice lower end moved little over whole range so I turn on Vbas so I could see this.  I then turned of Vamp (difference between Vbas and Vtop) and watched this when I changed offset.  This tracks very well if you are zoomed in on a few pulses.  Both Channels have DC coupling turned on. Total voltage then is Vbas + Vamp so you start around 2v and go to approx. 11v.

CH1 Yellow on scope is the digital input to primary. 
CH2 Blue is the signal across the cell (capacitor) input. Note:  Low by a factor of 2. Invert is off for this series.  I had it on in above photo just to see peek analog in digital pulses.

P1 shows the 2 signals at max offset.  At this point turning pot more does nothing at limit of TIP741.  System is in sync and Lock light is on.
 
P2 show shows the same set thing only I switched to 3x range on K21 so I am a factor of 10 lower at 378.8hz.   I did for a reason, when I was check what range I wanted to watch on scope I had lower offset.  When I was nearing max offset, I saw the analog signal move up slightly to look like P1.  What is happening show better using the 3x range.  Turns out it was not in complete sync until at max value. By chance this is the condition that Ronnie says you should have.

P3 Is the system in 3x setting with gain turned down and you can see the ramp in the Blue channel.  I turned offset down far enough to make it apparent. As you turn gain us this ramp flattens until it looks like P2.   You can also see this in 4x setting at 3.788hkz when you look at whole gate pulse but it not as apparent.  Not sure I would have caught this if I had not seen blue signal jump up slightly.

P4 I kept lowering offset until I saw the digital signal started to deform. That starts here at about Vamp = 1.71v so I captured the signals. You can see the deformed signal better in P5.

P5 is the lowest you can set the offset. Turning pot does not more at this point Vamp approx. 1.09v.

P6 is lowest offset setting but zoomed to show signals at 378.8hz

P7 is lowest offset at 3.8khz zoomed to show single gate pulse.  You can see the ramp up that disappears at max offset.

I can see why Stan only can select either the digital or analog signals test points.  You need the digital to set the offset and watch frequency.  You need the analog to set the minimum gain value.  I turned it up until all the digital pulses where full.  I think I showed this happening in posts above.

Looking good Earl, keep it coming :thumbsup:

HI Earl
I purchased a MIcsig DP2003 High Voltage Differential Probe (Approx. $240).
Re This I think we would all love to see pictures of the probe you have model and random pic of the part or box

Dan

I purchased a MIcsig DP2003 High Voltage Differential Probe (Approx. $240).   It has 2 ranges 560V(200x) and 5600V(200x) as I want to be able to check cells with higher.  The have another model the Micsig DP1003 with 50x/500x up to 1300V would have been a better match to my O-scope as it has a 50x range. The one I purchased works great, but the voltage displayed is low by a factor of 2.  When I was looking for probe, I saw reviews that said O-scope would just to range of probes or you could download new ranges, however, that did not work for my older scope.  I will try to make note of this when I post scope pictures, so people know value for it on screen is incorrect.

That's it but there are 2 more sets of probes one with hidden clamps in tip and one with pointed tips for probing.  I am using the one with clamps in tip for my testing.  One of the YouTube reviewers had both and said this DPS2003 has better quality probes but that they have basic the same electronic inside.  You can see the additional probes in photo.

By the way $240 include shipping from eBay Amazon was out of stock and did not know when they were getting more.

thanks  nice
Gotta buys some of these

Dan

Test on hold ran into a problem the T120 failed in the Cell Driver circuit.  Trouble shooting - signal was good into it bad coming out.  I replaced but still does not look right.   Happen after doing sync above 10K not sure it that was the problem.  Until recently I was being careful to not let it go that high.  There was some discussion in one of the threads about diode to choke not work properly  when in sync not enough current to cause it work.  Not sure if this had anything to do with my problem.  Slowly starting from front and working forward seems to be a 10V offset to analog  that was not there before which is gone if I disconnect digital signal.

YEs Tip120 Selection important also

While helping Dan document the VIC board, I learned more about one of the Patches on Stan’s VIC board.  I do not have that patch in my test systems as I build all my boards from schematics, so they are not an exact duplicated of Stan’s VIC.
 
I could see where the patch was connected but I wanted to see what it does to the signals.  It turns it is pretty easy to install patch on by test setup as I used screw connectors and have easy access to multiple points on the board including the ones used in the patch.

The patch hooks up to the 4x switch position “1X” (which comes from pin 4 of the 4046 chip).  This signal is the high frequency digital signal and contains the gate.

Patch runs from 1x to a 22K resistor connected to ground through 0.22uF capacitor, capacitor is on the same side as the input.  The output of the resistor is connected, to PRI-S on the input side of the diode 1N5408, which places it between the Primary coil and diode.
 
In my test system I hooked up the capacitor and resistor with a couple of patch cords to do test so I could add it and remove it easily so I could see what changes.

Test setup.  I have a baseline frequency and gate of 41.67hz which is also the baseline analog frequency.  Gate is set to 50% duty cycle.  The offset and gain is set to minimum levels that I have been using for most of testing.  Frequency to the digital signal is set to 1khz and did not change any of these value during the tests.

For initial test I have scope probe inputs set to DC offset.
CH1- Yellow it the digital side of primary F+
CH2- Bule is the analog side of primary S-

Picture 1 show the input to the primary without the patch and is what I typical see for these settings.  I have set levels to 1V for both sides so you can see the ramp on the analog channels.
Picture 2 is with the patch hooked up.  No other changes I wanted to show ramp on analog signal is still there.  (Hard to see on high scale setting on the scope).
Picture 3 is the same as picture 2 with scope scale set to 5V for both channels no other changes.
Picture 4 is the same as picture 2 but zoomed in
Picture 5 is the same as picture 2 but zoomed in even closer
Picture 6 I did not change setup but did put my differential Probe on CH2 scope probe is set to 100 but probe is 200 so reading off by a factor of 2.  I want to show what signal to cell looks like.  This is without patch.  CH1 is still hooked to primary input and provide scope sync reference.
Picture 7 same setting as picture 6 but with patch installed.  Notice that the signal across cell does not appear to change.
Picture 8 is the same as P7 but zoomed in.

One other thing I noticed is the lock LED is not pulsing at 1K it was not before.

The large signal you see on both side of primary in picture 2 with the patch in place will get substracted as it appears on both sides which is why you do not see a change in the signal to the cells in pictures 7 and 8.

I will have to see what this will do being able to watch offset in analog signal to determine. Voltage level into primary 2-11V.  I did not look at that as I was just trying to see what patch did to signals.

I installed a smaller sized capacitor not sure of voltage but the capacitor I used above the was 100V as that is all I thought I had.  But check this morning as I had purchased a box of small ceramic caps and it had some .33uf so installed one and got this results.  Wondered about this as picture of board had a small capacitor.  You can see difference in shape in this close in view.

Test of the effect of OFFET and Idle Adjust on Primary and Cell Interface

This series looks at what happens to [J] if signal provided to K9 Voltage Amplitude Control is at an offset level.  I have been working with Dan on a version of the VIC card that has a 741 that receives a signal to increase gas production (input from GAS FEEDBACK).  Based on where this signal is injected into VIC my speculation is that it is signal based on J but at a higher voltage level (offset).  As I have not built the Gas Feedback card, I have no way to verify this.  However, I do have a way to increase the energy level (offset) of [J].  I did this by raising the offset by using the Idle control on K8, Analog Voltage Generator.  The series of picture below show the results of these tests.

Initial conditions, I started with the same basic minimum conditions I have been using for most of the testing I did above.  Analog signal 41.67hz, Digital frequency 1khz, analog signal offset in K8 just above minimum level around 2.32v, offset and gain in K9 set to give signal in picture 1 below.

One thing that is different is I now have the patch in system that provides the digital signal to the analog side of input to Primary.
Test of this patch are shown in prior post.

CH1 – yellow is on Digital side of input to Primary Coil F+
CH2 – Blue is on the Analog side of input to Primary Coil S-

Picture 1 -Shows initial conditions set above.  I had set Offset and Gain to fill the spaces in-between the pulses.

Picture 2 - I raised the Idle Offset on K8.  Notice the fill between pulse is gone and those in space are also reduced. I stopped raising level to leave some of the fill in the space.

Picture 3 – I raised the Idle Offset on K8 some more and the fill is now gone.  I did change setting on scope to better show that the AM wave is still there as it is harder to see at higher scale settings.

Picture 4 – I raised the OFFSET on K9 and the fill returned.
At this point I wanted to see what this was doing to the signal on the cell interface.  So, I reconfigure system to initial conditions and change scope setup.

As digital signal was not changing, I move channel one to analog side and put my differential probe on channel 2 (reading off by factor of 2).  CH2 is now on cell interface.  The advantage of using the analog channel is with patch installed you can now see both the analog and digital signal and even the fill.

CH1 – Yellow    Analog input to Primary Coil
CH2 – Blue        Signal across the Cell interface

Picture 5 - Shows the initial conditions for this configuration. Your can see the fill in-between pulses.

Picture 6 – I raised the Idle Offset on K8 and fill is gone and the signal on Cell Interface flattened.

Picture 7 – I raised the Offset on K9 and fill returned and signal regained ramp.

I am still not sure what the setting needs to be.  I am still trying to see how the signal changes when system controls are changed.  In operations both these controls will have been set to some minimum value and then locked.   I expect that same will apply to the Gain Control on K9. At this point, I do know if I just raise the OFFSET on K9 the fill does not disappear.  I can also verify that voltage to primary does not start to raise until the space between the pulses is filled. I did not try to adjust the gain for this series as I wanted to keep down the number of things being changed

NOTE:  I am using a capacitor with a resistor in series to simulate cell for all the above tests.

One conclusion I can made. The patch is a big help as you can see what is happening on one channel of the scope.  This is important as the test point on the VIC front panel only show one side of the primary input at a time.  In the analog signal you can now see the gate, the digital frequency, the analog signal and voltage level of the analog signal though that is harder to determine. 
For this series, I cheated and had put a voltmeter across the input to the OFFSET so I could easily reset it to my known minimum level.  It also let me see what level I was setting it to as I changed it.  Did this as I have been having a hard time finding a scope reading for analog signal that stable enough to give an accurate reading for this value. 

Nice  Earl

One conclusion The patch is a big help as you can see what is happening on one channel of the scope.  This is important as the test point on the VIC front panel only show one side of the primary input at a time.

Note for those reading the voltage during gate should not ground or fall to zero as we want to ensure cell and water remains charged positive where possible to get the effect and constantan production of gas and water keeps its holding ability for any dissolved gases Dan