The following series of test show the result of increasing the offset on K9.

Test setup used the standard setup with the excepting I have set the Offset on K9 to be below minimum value so we can see what this looks like and what it looks like as we raise offset.
 
I did also check function of the Gain Pot on K9. I have not shown that here as it appears to be a fine control on the setting of the Offset Pot. So, for whatever value you set with the Offset it takes several turns of Gain trim pot to make a small change in output of secondary.

The scope pictures are from both probes on the secondary and using the math function A-B to create the same results you would get using a differential probe.  This is a truer picture of the voltage across the secondary.  I also have 220k resister across the secondary to provide some load.

Note:  I have turn off the display of CH1 A and CH2 B so we are only look at the results of the Math function.
Because I have only a 2-channel scope, I was not able to track the voltage level out into Primary during this test.

As Scope shots are all of the same connection I will not repeat set up as only change was to Offset on K9.
Picture 1 – Shows the signal when offset is set below 2v.  Purpose is to show what the signal looks like when offset is set too low
Picture 2 – Shows when offset is above 2v but not yet over minimum value. Note the sight curve in the base signal line.
Picture 3 – Shows when offset is over minimum value. The line is more curved and has a smooth arch.
Picture 4 – After raising offset more the curve in front of the digital pulses starts to flat as has some noise.  Flatten of the curve move left to right and continues to happen as you raise offset.
Picture 5 – As you continue to raise offset the voltage on the digital pulses also rises.  I also started to hear noise from the coils.
Picture 6 – You can easily see what I mean by curve flatting and easily see the rise in voltage in the digital pulses.
Picture 7 – The curve line is now almost completely flat, and you can see the digital pulses are starting to get clipped.
Picture 8 – No change in curved line but notice the digital pulse is now flat top and bottom and voltage no longer changes with rises in offset pot.

As a final check, I removed the inversion of the M signal into K8 so see what it would do output signal.  I could not see a difference it the output of secondary but that may be hid buy the Math function.

While I had done this test before I had done with using a differential probe setup which gives a truer voltage ready across a component so I had seen the affect of the offset pot when I did that test.

Rest of pictures

Test will slow down I managed to fry my mother board with a freak accident - Drop iPhone cord plugged in computer usb port and phone end when into power strip plug.  I could not have done this if I tried. So computer in for repair - looks like it was just the mother board.  Doing this on my wife's computer.

After collecting the secondary output photos with two probes across output and using Scope Math function I decide to go back and do same offset and gain test but using the Input to the primary.  I have tried to do this test before but just with out proper load and did not get good results.  This time with both a Primary and Secondary Coil with 220k resister I got much better results of the AM wave.  This is to be expected as an AM amplifier reacts different loaded and unloaded.  The biggest difference is the Offset and Gain Pots now work properly.

These photos are important because this is what you word be seeing on the test jack on K9 which is the output to the VIC coils.  The photos are not at the exact same place as the Secondary phots but should be close especially those around the minimum offset value.

Turns out you can see what the gain function does in these photos better than in the Secondary output photos and I have a couple photos to show this. I took the Gain Photos first and labeled the G instead of P which why numbering starts with P4 but take about gain at end
.
Setup did not change from last set of photos above except the location of the scope probes which are now on the input to the primary coil. Both scope grounds are connected the system ground.

CH1 – yellow is the digital input frequency around 1.2khz for screen shots and my timing reference
CH2 – Blue is the analog input
P4 - I set both the offset pot and the gain pot setting to be near or below their minimum value.  The offset is well below as I wanted to see it change.
P5 – You can see the shape of the analog pulse start to change
P6 – I added cursors to show the amplitude of the pulse start to grow
P7- I raised the offset until amplitude stopped growing.  Note: At start of the cycle bottom slightly below the cursor.  Once it reaches the with cursor it changes.  At the point both AM and digital pulses start to move, AM whole wave trains starts to offset.  The digital pulse grows in amplitude.
P8 – Note Scope scale change.  This is at the point just before the top of the signal starts to get clipped.
P9 – AM Signal clipped at the top
P10 – As signal was going through be set to the minimum offset value I noticed that it slowly fills the spaces between the digital pulses.  This happens left to right and screen shot shows this with the space about half filled.
P11 – As the Math function was so important in understanding the output the secondary, I did take a look at.  This photo shows a typical value as it does not change much with either gain or offset changes so it not very useful here.  The other thing that this photo show is a different frequency.   I have the manual mode frequency set to 500hz and flipping that switch changes the pulse width but did not change much else on the screen.
G1 – With the offset it the middle range I played with the gain pot.  I added the cursers to top and bottom of the AM wave so I would have a baseline.
G2 – This is max gain, note the amplitude gain in the digital pulse as wee
G3 – This is just with gain just slightly above the minimum setting in the base line in G1.  With gain change is starts to change the amplitude of the signal first then as that increases so the offset.

I was really pleased with the results of these test as I can now see how offset and gain can be used to control the voltage going to primary.  This is what I had expected to happen but did not see as my earlier test did not provide enough load for the voltage to increase.
I still not sure what should be the minimum offset.  I would thing the value where the bottom of the AM signal in no longer clipped.

More Photos

And the gain photos

I did collect a series of screen shot where I captured both the primary input and secondary output at the same time so I have a record that I can check back against.  Operation system will have different value as loading will be different.  They show as you increase the offset the voltage the signal across the secondary rises.  You can see that in photos above.  While doing that I was zoomed in so I was looking at data in one pulse.  It is interesting to watch the signals change as you raise the offset.  You can see what I will call state changes where results change.  For example the analog signal stays pretty much at one level and signal expands horizontally then the offset starts to rise.

What I did find very difficult was to determine what voltage level the analog signal was at using this method as it jumps around allot.  I basically watch signal and estimated what the analog Vpp was.  Doing this was if I was going to try to repeat a value I most likely use Vmax of the digital pulses, while that moves around it is much more stable.

I sat and though about how Stan was doing this as method above is not repeatable.  He brought 2 signals out to the same test point so he could not be looking at both then the same time as you either can see the analog input to primary or the digital pulses.  The digital pulses gives the frequency and also some indication of a voltage; however, it does not tell you the analog voltage.  If you look at the analog voltage with no scope changes you will be able to see the analog signal and even the digital pulses in them but voltage level is jumping all over the place.

So I just did another test to see if I could get a more accurate estimate of the analog voltage Vpp value.  I turned off the digital input and only looked at the analog signal.  I then zoomed way out and looked at signal Vpp and increase the scale factor to 10.  This reduced the noise on the signal and while it take several seconds for the screen to update the Vpp value that I get is much easier to see as it stay stable for several second.  I then adjusted value and waited several screen updates until I was happy with value I was getting.  With this method I believe I can get repeatable results.

Picture below so the results of me trying to set Vpp to 10v.

Note:  It is very possible that I have noise in my test system that should not be in a production system or even on prototype boards. You will not get these if you just build the circuits, and that is what I did, you most likely will have left out filter capacitors that get added as standard practice.  i.e. power filters to supplies for the IC.

Having said that, my test boards work well enough that I can configure my system and they have giving me a working understanding of what each of the front panel controls do.  I am still not done as things change as you add more pieces.  I really saw that when I added a load to the secondary.  While load is still not correct with no load the offset and gain on K9 did not appear to do anything.

My next step was to play with the gap in the cores to see what it did to signals.  I did find a reference that for a standard transformer is only has an effect if the transformer is saturated.  Not our case,  gaps with inductors are another issue and this was the last statement article.

" Hope you will be clear by this time that as our magnetizing currents are very low it is safe to go without any air gap. But you may be seeing few applications using air gap in transformers. Here the main purpose is to play with the magnetizing inductance so that can control the leakage inductance for critical applications like DAB/Resonant converters."

So it is beginning to look like I need to build the chokes before those these will work.

Nice Work Earl, this Help clarify the Steps alot,

The scope shots come our great and clear  showing primary signals and gain well done

thanks for posting them in order this also helps alot for
other to try same,

I know of  3 people following step by step but it takes time to config
Thanks
I will look again at the signal into the db 9  into transformer daughter board
Dan

Dan,

I talked about the tests I did above but did not post all the photos.  I decided to put them into a table to reduce space and summary what the test did.  Results are in the attached file.  Table shows primary input next to secondary output from below or at minimum offset to clipping at top of range.  I tried to collect data at 1v steps.  Results is close to listed voltage input level but is not accurate.

Note: Text at beginning of document provides system configuration for the tests which did not change across all the tests.  Only change was Offset and scope settings and probe locations for each photo.

AWSOME

Great you  Thanks Earl

I did another set of tests only this time I left the analog signal fixed and only changed the digital frequency.  I tested from 1khz to 5khz in 500hz steps.  Setup was the same at the above test.  I attached the results in the attached pdf.  It includes screens shots at each frequency plus a few showing what happens when you change the switch settings 1x,2x,3x,4x on VIC board.  Test detail is included in the document.

First picture in each set show the digital frequency going into the primary coil.  This is zoomed in so I can get a close estimate of actual frequency.  Second picture show output of Secondary.  Item of main interest is the Math function which is the actual voltage output of the secondary.  CH1 and CH2 are the S and F outputs of the Secondary to the 220k resistor load, both scope leads are connected to system ground.  The math function is what you would see if you used a differential probe.

Quick test summary,  It appears that changing only the frequency just changes the number of pulses in each gate pulse. This will increase the energy density in each pulse but not the voltage level.  You can see this by looking at the Math function output in the screen shots.

great

I did my primary and secondary signal testing with the coils just setting on a couple of boards.  This will not work when I start to test the cokes as for them I will need to be able to adjust the gaps in the cores (gap not necessary to test transformer function) I have been thinking about how to do that and build holding jig in the photos below.  I decided to do this now as it was easier to do before I wind the chokes which I am getting ready to do.

The white boards with black screws are mainly to hold the tubes with cores tight together and square and keep the ferrite in the end tube tight against the ferrite in side tubes.  The aluminum angle bars on the side with 2 screws in them will allow me to put pressure on ferrite pieces under the coils.  By putting brass plates in the gap I can increase or decrease the gap side.  As the side pieces are independent I can set different size gaps on each side.  I am 1/2 inch wood pieces that fit in the tube to press on ferrite.  This way the metal screws are not touching the ferrite cores.  It also means I am less like to damage the ferrite. To change the gap size I will just push the ferrite pieces out one end of tube with a wooden rod I created for this purpose when I made the tubes.  I have multiple sizes of brass stock to set the gap so I will just select size I want to test and put them between the ferrite pieces and push them back into tube. Screws will be used to reply light pressure to remove any air gap.

I have no idea what I should be using for a gap size only that Ronnie stated making them different will help create the proper voltage difference that need to be be applied to the cells by adjusting the phase angle.

Note:  Pictures also show the connections of the probes while measuring the signal on the secondary output.  This is using 2 standard probes to act as 1 differential probe. 

 

nice

With the completion of the jig I turned to making the 2 cokes C1 and C2.   
I decided to do C2 first as it was the smaller of the 2 chokes at 70.1 ohms.  I calculated the length to be 856.654 feet based on the estimated ohms value per foot.  I added an extra 4 feet guessing that would be more than enough.  It was not when I used meter to measure ohms.  Cutting it short was a big mistake on my part as instead of wasting 20 feet of wire the whole coil will need to be redone.  I know better should always cut them long.  In fact, for this coil I should have make long enough to be 73 ohms then I could add coils back if I need to balance turns.  Ronnie stated these 2 chokes should start out matching the approximate 73 ohms of the secondary.  Then you add turns to C1 and remove turns from C2.  If you need to take turns off C1 then you added them back to C2.   C2 will never be more than 73 ohms.  C1 will be near 76.7 ohms so wire will need to be even longer to start.  The big question is how much longer.  Nav says the same thing in his posts about and removing turns on chokes. He even recommends having enough wire to reach cells.

While I knew this ahead of time I was not sure what I was going to do with the extra wire and got in a hurry and cut it too short as I had to cut wire to measure the ohms.  Should have just added way more than enough and then cut it back after measuring.  For actual length of C2 I am only off about 13 feet.  Turns out that is only about 3 turns as each turn on outer edge of my coils is about 5 inches. I have decided to leave it for now as I will need to order more wire before I can rewind it as there is not enough left on source spool to redo it.

I have already wound C1 wire on jig to measure length added extra wire and then some, so I do not repeat the mistake of cutting too short.  Now I just wound it on spool and count turns.

I plan on doing a few tests with this C2 coil just to see what things look like.  What I am trying to find out at this point is how to set the voltage difference across the cells that match value need to start pulling water apart.  Note:  Not the high voltage but from Ronnie. “It takes a potential difference of 1.23 volts to maintain the polarization process. EXAMPLE: Hydrogen electrode -0.41 volts Oxygen electrode +0.82 volts.”  It is my understanding this a combination of the difference in the wraps on each of the chokes and difference in size of gaps.

I also understand the gap may be needed to keep cores from saturation when we are at resonance so I am not sure if I can test gap size with out have the real cells.  My plan is to do some initial test using a resistant load with a cross over capacitor.  I have no idea if this will work or not.  Given that we need to maintain the 1.23 difference at all times I hoping I can see the affect of changes at low voltages without worrying about resonance at this point.

Was the estimated gap size every posted as I do not recall ever see it?

C1 now wound on spool.  Just to be safe I wound 990 feet which was 78.5 ohms 3409 turns.  I then cut off 10ft (.8 ohms) now have 77.7 ohms.

At this point I measured inductance of both C1 and C2 with air core.  Note:  Meter frequency changes with inductance so I have included frequency in data below.
C2 is 69 ohms, 3081 turns and 98.48mH at 1579hz
C1 is 77.75 ohms, 3386 turns and 124mH as 1406hz

I then took 10 feet of coil but did not cut it so still 77.75ohms, 3364 turns and 121.8mH.
I plan on leaving extra wire for now.  I wound the extra 10 feet on 1.5 in diameter cardboard tube and remeasured inductance of C1; 121.9 -122.1mH so what you do with extra wire matters.  I plan on redoing these measurements with ferrite cores in place.

Repeated measurements with ferrite cores in holder – open on both ends
C2 with ferrite core 756.2-756.8mH at 569hz
C1 with ferrite core and 10 feet on air core 922.2- 922.7mH at 517hz
C1 with ferrite core and 10ft of straight wire 915.6mH at 518hz.  Note: when I recoiled wire on cardboard tube, I got slightly different values. But I had moved to different spot on table.
 
I also think  I will  do some gap test before hooking up coils just to see if it changes anything.  I expect it will as moving core sight in tube changes values.

Put tube with ferrite core and coils in VIC jig then finger tighten screws to make sure ferrite pieces where snug no gaps.
C2 complete loop no gaps 1.520H at 402hz
C1 complete loop no but with 10 feet on cardboard tube air core 1.657-1666H at 384-385hz

Picture show current coils I am testing installed in the jig I am using the L/C meter in the picture to measurements. This is the one others where using and found to be fairly accurate even though it is cheap.

The increased inductance was expected.  Mainly doing this so I have a baseline for future changes.  I plan on take several measures for different gap sizes without changing anything else to get a feel for what happens to the C1 C2 inductance values.

hi Earl reading through , gap size can be very close to your number it is a adjustable tune
i have not seed 1 to 5 scale of gap sizes posted yet  ,

Dan

I put VIC coils all together in my VIC jig and repeated the inductance meter meter measurements with no gap, 0.004th on coke leg and with 0.004th on both legs.  The chokes and secondary were not connect to anything but meter.  Goal was to see what gap did to the coils.  Simple answer is gap reduces the coils inductance.  I have attached the measurements I took for my coils.  The hz reading is from the meter and it tells you what the frequency was used to calculate henrys.  I plan on doing some smaller gap changes I just decide to start with .004 spacer I also have .006, .002, .001 and believe smallest is .0005.  As you can see in the table a change in the gap affects all three coils.  For some of the coils the meter cycled between two values so I include both.  The only change to setup was to add the brass spacer.  I did not change and of the coil windings or make a changes to wire resistance though I know what those values are for all three coils.

For reference I also include Z for each coil at 1khz.  Once you know the H value for coil Z=2*pi*f*L.

Not sure if this is the best way to go about this but it was easy to collect this data at this point as I have not yet hooked the coils up.
Having 2 spacers put the primary and C2 one one core piece and secondary and C1 on the other. 

One of the things we were told to do early on was to impedance balance the system but to do that you needed to know the coils inductance and the cells capacitance and we had neither of the values.  This is my attempt to at least know one of them and to get a feel for what one change (the gap) does to the systems does.  I am aware the gap also changes the phase of the system signal and I plan on looking at that later.

I put .001th shim on Choke side of core and redid measurements in this case inductance went up but that may be caused by the whole system being connected tighter and not do to the  additional shim.  I also added a column showing the difference in Henrys and Z for each change for reference.  One thing that is very apparent is this as not a linear function especially going from no gap to .004 gap as adding an additional .004 on other leg had a much smaller effect.  Much easier to see when you look at the change in Z.  One exception to this was there was a big change in the difference for the second with the addition of the .004 in that leg

Another thing that you can see is amount of change on C1 and C2 is different for each change I expect this is why gap change be used to adjust the phase.

I hooked up the Diode and C1 and C2 to 3 resistors that add up to 76.65 ohms (no cells or capacitors at this point).  This is close to the Re 78.54 of the cells.  I then captured a couple of screen shots to see what the signal looks like at the cell interface in this case across the resistors.  Picture P1 shows the signal.  Turns out the big difference in the C1 and C2 signals and the large math function are because I had hooked up the connections to C1 backwards.   Picture P2 show the signals when cell is turned off as I wanted to see the base carrier you get there is no system ground in signal.  Notice scope scales.  I had correct diagram show correct way but after hooking but C2 I just did the same for C1 which is wrong.

Pictures P3 and P4 are signals when C1 is hooked up correctly.  I reversed the probes between taking these pictures and got the same results.  Note:  Scales are now equal for all three signals.

I did not capture the cell off picture with C1 hooked correctly but the signal where at the same level in that case.

Note:  All these tests where done with low offset and frequency at 1K.

Final picture is my test setup.

I also measured the voltage across resistor and on each side of the resistor with one side of meter connected to system ground.  I am trying to figure out how to measure the voltage differential going to the cell which should be 1.23 volts.

DC voltage across resistor is .027
AC voltage across resistor is .024
DC voltage on C1 to ground is 0.0
AC voltage on C1 side to ground is 1.189 to 1.198
DC voltage on C2 to ground is 0.0
AC voltage on C2 side to ground is 1.193 to 1.204
Note:  C2 is 69 ohms and C1 is 77.7 ohms with 10’ on external air core.

I was hoping I could see the voltage difference with just the resistor as this would be the starting point when conditioning cell when capacitor is full of water and is basically shorted.  Given the slight difference between the C1 and C2 sides it does not look like this is working without the capacitor in circuit. I am also not sure the best way to make the measurement.  I am under the impression that the voltage difference should be constant across frequency based on Ronnie’s comments.

Added capacitor in series with resistors:  Cap labeled 8.20uF +/-5% 630VDC measured 7.76uF with my meter.  Note: this is a nondirectional capacitor.

Probes in photos – Probe grounds are connected to system ground
C1 – Yellow is on C1 minus side of Cap
C2 – Bule is on C2 plus side of Cap
Math is A-B where A is C1 and B is C2

What I was trying to do in this series of tests was to see the effect of the capacitor on signal and the best way to measure signal and voltage difference between the two side of the capacitor.  I did see a big change in voltage after adding capacitor and could see it charge up.  I also found that putting a voltmeter across the cap caused a voltage drop of slightly over a quarter of a volt.

Picture PC1 shows a couple of things.  C2 blue show the state of the signal when the cell is turned off by switch. Note the offset is zero I was attempting to measure this using the cursors. One other thing to note is that CH1 probe was set incorrectly.  Probe was 1x instead of 10x, I have had this happen to me before so while I checked it, I did not look close enough.  It was fixed in last 2 pictures
.
Picture PC2 shows same setting with cell turned back on and you can see voltage offset to C2 interesting C1 does not move.

Picture PC3 shows the same signal zoomed in closer.

Pictures PC4 and PC5 have the probe setting fixed on C1 and signal now looks more like the results on the resistors only. In both these pictures voltmeter is not connected.

In PC4 I have turned on the AVG function for voltage on both Channels so I could estimate the voltage difference be the two sides of the cap.

In PC5 I did the same thing but used RMS function.

While the both had slightly different results the difference when you subtract them was only .01v so this these functions may be the way I measure the voltage difference across cells so I can set the required 1.23v difference. I am still not sure this will work will watch this in future tests.

Also note in both PC4 and PC5 you can see a DC voltage offset of about 4 volts to both CH2 and the Math function.  Note:  I do have both probes couple selection set to DC.  I do not thing this is the difference we are trying to set as this value changes with the level of the charge on the cell.  I saw this a I watch the cell discharge both on voltmeter and on scope C2 to level shown in picture PC1.

I also took a couple of measurements with voltmeter. Voltage across cell was 3.75 as noted above I could see voltage drop to this level when I hooked up meter.  Voltage on plus side of cell with negative side of meter hooked to system ground was 3.16vdc and on negative side of capacitor it was -.33vdc.

One final note other than turning cell off and on with switch I did not make any other changes to my test system configuration.  As with above resistor tests the frequency was still set to 1khz and minimum offset to analog signal.

Now that I have a baseline, next step is to slowly start to change things one at time to see what happens.

One thing I did not see was the frequency doubling. Will look for this more when I start change system configuration.  One of the first things I will check is to reverse diode as I can do that easily as I have not soldered my connections yet.  It is also possible I have the wrong diode and/or capacitor type.

Simple answer is gap reduces the coils inductance.

noted again here

Thanks Earl Reading things and checking what can be noted

After doing the test above I wonder in my capacitor was in the close F range.  Turns out it was way off.  Like a lot of things, I could not find what I was looking for which was the capacitor values of the cells. Today I found the three tables in the reference below the third table provided 22pF for a single cell in air it also gives a 2.52uF value for ten cell which is not correct.  Using the calculator see below I got 2.2pF (number was close but wrong range as it had to be less not greater and single cell)

Re: Stans VIC finally reverse engineered and ready to build thread

https://www.omnicalculator.com/physics/capacitors-in-series#adding-capacitors-in-series

Note:  There are many different calculators here I recommend them as they created by a physics PhD candidate.

It look like there are other errors as well for example in you look at L1 and L2 together they are in around 600mH on ferrite core but the single values for both are around 1100mH.  Inductors are additive so this does not make any sense.  As this puzzled my I measure the inductance of my whole VIC at the cell interface and got 6.878H so it possible this is another case where value is close, but range is wrong.

My shole VIC is 6.697H at 198Hz Note:  needed short out diode to take reading
Sec and C1 = 3.446H at 267hz - All coils on core
Sec and C2= 2.921H at 290Hz - All coils on core
Capacitance across the VIC cell interface from meter was 17.84pf and 680,230hz

I plugged 600H and 5khz into the Resonant Frequency calculator one of above calculator referenced above and got 1.6887pF.

I can see why Ronnie stated you need to start with cells.  It’s too bad the table had some incorrect values and I know people were having a hard time measuring capacitance of there cell though they did state the cheap meter I am using seemed to work.

The short series of posts starting with reference below by Ronnie also explain why you get different voltages across the chokes and shows proper hookup of chokes and math example
He starts with a picture showing the math for apposing and aiding inductors then gives reference to source of equations

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #120, on October 27th, 2016, 03:00 PM »Last edited on October 29th, 2016, 02:21 PM

While I know my L1 is too high and L2 too low I will try a capacitor in the 2pF range and do some more testing. Hopefully this will at least put in the ballpark of the correct values, so I better see the effect of changing the values of the chokes.

For Sure , You have to start with cells

Russ and others have shown you need to have some skills of the art in tuning
1 start with air get measurements on track
2 add double distilled water
3 raise voltage in steps
4 remember dbd barrier or bubble layer of air is the ticket to free town

Russ was testing several types of Tip120
 on the Vic daughter board,
Earl
there is some finer discussion on exact
brand make model of best tip120

 on the vic transformer driver board or daughter board. 

Thanks Dan

I was looking for Russ's test result a little while ago and was not able to find them.  I know a lot of his  later testing was not posted in the forum the I have made heavy use of resource data he did post.  I have read his questions to Ronnie and Ronnie answers so I know Russ got fairly far in his testing.  While I have been following Russ for a long time when he was doing Stan's testing I was busy looking at other alternate energy projects.

I am getting around to looking deeper at the cells and their capacitance.  Up to this point I have been concentrating on the generating the signal going into the coils.  I have started trying to look at the effect of changes on the output of the coils and have reached the point where I need to have a better load on the coils.  I admit I have been avoiding this issue up to now as this is an area, I am least familiar with.  While I have looked at the tables showing resistance, inductance, and capacitance up to now I have not paid a lot of attention to them.  As I am trying to determine how to setup the voltage difference that Ronnie talks about, I want to have a capacitor or capacitor bank that in the right range to represent 10 cells.
 
I can measure the inductance of my circuit, so I know what that inductance value is, but I want the proper load, so I see the effect of my changes.   When I look at the table showing the capacitance values, I see different numbers for the various dielectric and one for the 10 cells.  I initial thought the value for 10 cells was wrong as I had assumed it was for air which is 2.2pF but 2.52uF it is correct for tap water.

This means there is big difference when the cell is empty and when it full.  But I think the answer is somewhere in between as water level will drop when cells start producing gas.  I have been wondering if this is one of the tuning functions for several reasons.  Puharich’s Patent talks about raising the water level in cell to until the top part of the center tube is cover (center tube lower that outer).  Then in several of Stan’s videos you see pressure being applied to cells.  Pressure can be used to control water level.  I have also notice that in some of pictures and videos that not all the cells are at the same height which makes we wonder if that was done to change the total capacitance.
 
Ronnie also talks that initial tuning should be done in air and implies that is where cell would be operated.  While I thought I knew the capacitance would change with dielectric level I wanted to be sure so I search on internet and found the follow article which confirmed that assumption and in fact they use that function in their fluid level sensors:

How does capacitive level sensing work? » Gill Sensors ...
https://www.gillsc.com/newsitem/51/how-does-capacitive-level-sensing-work-

In trying to under what value of capacitance I needed I plugged inductance and capacitance values in the resonance calculator at above reference to see what happen to frequency.  For this exercise I used the capacitance value for air and set the inductance to provide a resonance frequency around 4-5khz.  Which turned out to be close to what I was measuring for my VIC coils.  Interesting when I then plugged in the value for water resonance frequency was around 38hz.

I started with 6.878H as that is what I measured at interface to cell.  Then I plugged in frequency between 4-5khz to see what value that would give me for capacitor.  As I could find a 220pH 1000v capacitor I plugged that into calculator and got 4.0915kz.  This should let me change things in my testing to see effect of changes.

Summary 220pF and 6.878H gives Resonance at 4.0915kHz. Note: For same capacitance lowering Henry’s will increase frequency.  I can do that by increasing gap in core.

Summary water 2.52uF and 6.878H gives Resonance at 38.23Hz

This leads me to believe that water level in cell is critical and cell pressure is not just a safety factor as it will also control water level.  The cell then is a variable capacitor and can be adjusted by changing water level see Gill article reference above.  Gill does the reverse they use capacitance of cell to determine level of fluid.  There sensor is calibrated to match the dielectric value of the fluid in tank.

This takes me back to one of Ronnie’s comments where he stated he did tests to determine capacitance of cell at various levels and frequencies.

My next step:  I am waiting for 1000v 220pF to arrive so I can see what that they do to my test setup.  I tried 220pF cap that I have but only got 150mV of charge on cap.