[evostars]

For those, who want to comment on my work. please do it here.

Feel free to share your idea's, thoughts, positive constructive criticism. feelings, video's, inspiration, advise etc.
 :thumbsup:

[Matt Watts]

Quote from evostars on May 5th, 2017, 09:40 AM

stack other pancake coil and look to that like one capacitor exchanging charges between each plate  (two pancake coils )

dont know what he means, ...

I do, finally.

Two plates can only form a capacitor when a particular voltage threshold is reached.  Up to that point, the two plates are simply an open circuit.  There is no dielectric lines of force, no attraction between the plates.

But there's more...

There is another voltage threshold related to capacitors and when that voltage is reached, the capacitor is now a spark gap, a short circuit.

I was never taught any of this, but discovered it when working with the Jack Noskills device.

It's a voltage controlled switch that has a range where charge can be accumulated.  To me, this explains Nelson's early circuits using relays--he was trying to formulate a mechanism to take advantage of what we call a capacitor, only he figured out at some point a capacitor is also a switch.  Initially this concept flew right over my head, but now I see it, have proven it is real, it is there and we can use it too.

This explains why an LCR meter is of no use to us with these type of geometries.  You cannot adequately alter the voltage potential enough within an LCR meter for it to cover the entire range of such a capacitor.  So trying to get this kind of test equipment to display a useful value in Farads is pointless.  Now that I comprehend what is going on here, we maybe should attempt to build a measuring device that will tell us where the two thresholds are and what the capacitance is within those two thresholds.  That would be an extremely useful piece of equipment.

[evostars]

Thats a good one Matt. :thumbsup2:
Thats why the high voltage is needed, to close the gap between the bifilar coils.
I just did the 4 coils test, with center gap. I connected the 2 center coils. But they should be open.

I also tested it with open connection. there was a slight signal, but weak. Since I work with relative low voltages, I will need to close the gap. bring the plates/coil together. or raise the voltage. I can hook up my 19V power supply.

I guess, thats why Nelson has the blue coils with the white spacing. thats the dielectric.

[Matt Watts]

What bothers me is that I should have figured this out a long time ago when playing with Xenon flash tubes.



The trigger plate provides a means to shorten the gap because of the placement and dielectric properties of the glass.  Essentially you provide enough voltage so the tube charges like a capacitor, then by providing enough voltage to the trigger plate, you short circuit the high voltage cap and an internal discharge takes place, causing the Xenon gas to form a plasma.

To me this is pure proof of a capacitor also acting as a switch--both high and low voltage thresholds must be adhered to.  As typical, hidden in plain sight.

[evostars]

matt,  that's why I think the surfice area of the bifilar pancake coil is important.

if the 3 fields are all at 90 degrees related to each other. the 3rd field Longitudinal would point out of the coil straight up and down from the surface. bigger area better beam.

at the same time it rotates. producing a vortex.

that vortex needs a center hole, to spin freely.
radius of the hole, is one
radius of the hole plus windings is phi*phi
for perfect balance.
(phi*phi) - 1=phi

[Matt Watts]

Quote from evostars on May 6th, 2017, 12:34 PM

bifilar inner hole ratio to winding surface area, based on the pentagram PHI geometry

I like the phi ratio idea for the inner/outer diameters.  Can you give me some ideas about the turning ratio?  What I mean is:  should the spacing be constant between the conductors from inner to outer starting point?   Or should this spacing also have some kind of phi ratio?   I'm not sure I can draw it properly.  Hopefully you get what I mean.  The reason I ask is because it looks more than possible to design a PCB bifilar pancake coil, with each one being precision made and exact.  If we have some idea what the optimal geometry might look like, it would give me an excellent starting point.

I'm also not clear whether the winding/spacing should be tighter near the center or the edge.  I'm thinking a vortex would spin faster at its edges than its center, so the angle near the outer edge should be almost tangent, but in the center, the opposite would be true.  The angle would be nearly 90 degrees from dead center, so something less than that at the hole edge.

Evo, do you have any examples of a phi-based spiral?  Other than the typical snail shell?

[haxar]

Quote from evostars on May 5th, 2017, 11:18 AM

For those, who want to comment on my work. please do it here.

You can lock your own thread so that members cannot respond to them.

[evostars]

Quote from Matt Watts on May 6th, 2017, 02:11 PM

I like the phi ratio idea for the inner/outer diameters.  Can you give me some ideas about the turning ratio?  What I mean is:  should the spacing be constant between the conductors from inner to outer starting point?   Or should this spacing also have some kind of phi ratio?   I'm not sure I can draw it properly.  Hopefully you get what I mean.  The reason I ask is because it looks more than possible to design a PCB bifilar pancake coil, with each one being precision made and exact.  If we have some idea what the optimal geometry might look like, it would give me an excellent starting point.

I'm also not clear whether the winding/spacing should be tighter near the center or the edge.  I'm thinking a vortex would spin faster at its edges than its center, so the angle near the outer edge should be almost tangent, but in the center, the opposite would be true.  The angle would be nearly 90 degrees from dead center, so something less than that at the hole edge.

Evo, do you have any examples of a phi-based spiral?  Other than the typical snail shell?

yes,  i have made a phi based toroid. its perfect for 8 pointed coils. I'll make some pics.

the spacing needs to be even. the spiral moves inwards,  and therefore changes rotational speeds.

the capacitance needs to be even to do this.

the only factor in spacing is,  how high the voltage pulses are when you put them in, to prevent spark over between the windings.
closer=better=more capacitance.

the windings are like capacitor plates.

[nav]

Where you have built the transformer onto your circuit and you mentioned the pulsed signal turning into a sine wave: This happens on all transformers that are pulsed with dc, the transformer core dynamics absorb the infrastruture of any square wave and don't output that infrastructure, you get a normal sine wave that emerges either side of the dc offset. If you place a diode after your transformer you then end up with chopped ac above the offset at twice the input frequency.

[evostars]

tnx Nav. I suspected the iron core to mess it up.

[nav]

http://www.electronicdesign.com/energy/avoid-transformer-core-saturation

[Matt Watts]

Evo, if you get Nelson's circuit tuned right, you'll get tiny little pulses that blow the doors off your scope, well in excess of 400 volts with that transformer you bought.  There's also a voltage threshold where the circuit transitions from an oscillator to a pulse generator.  In my case that was somewhere between 7 ~ 9 volts.  I would try using a toroid with 1:1 turns instead of a ferrite rod though.

Nav, you need to build this circuit and get it working.  It doesn't behave at all like one would expect.  What Nelson discovered we need to comprehend.

[evostars]

tnx!
but how to tune...
i use uf4007 diodes. should be fast enough
removed the iron core,  replaced it with ferrite rods. still sine.

above 5 volts indeed the pulse becomes stronger but still not stable,  tomuch sine wave.

I think my cheap caps havr a hard time (high pitched noise), and a to low voltage rating,  for the bifilar pulses.  I will make that 1:1

[nav]

Quote from Matt Watts on May 8th, 2017, 06:32 AM

Evo, if you get Nelson's circuit tuned right, you'll get tiny little pulses that blow the doors off your scope, well in excess of 400 volts with that transformer you bought.  There's also a voltage threshold where the circuit transitions from an oscillator to a pulse generator.  In my case that was somewhere between 7 ~ 9 volts.  I would try using a toroid with 1:1 turns instead of a ferrite rod though.

Nav, you need to build this circuit and get it working.  It doesn't behave at all like one would expect.  What Nelson discovered we need to comprehend.

Too busy Matt at the moment with the bifilar/Meyer project. I'm also building a new secondary which can pulse low and high frequencies. At the end of the day there isn't much difference in what i'm doing and what you guys are doing, the dynamics are the same using bifilars. All i'm doing is creating a secondary that can pulse a gated signal then a set of chokes that filter out part of that signal the exact same way a low pass filter chokes out high impedance signals then dumping them into a capacitor. My chokes also work at their self resonant frequency which produces more voltage to be dumped.

[evostars]

Got it fairly good working now, with a ferrite rod, with 2 separate windings, and a ferrite rod as step up transformer core. Thanks for the help.

[nav]

Evostars, there is only one thing you can do with an high voltage dielectric field and that is to store it as capacitance. Then that capacitance must be isolated from the primary source impedance for it to be effective.
For years and years we have choked unwanted signals from voltage and transmission lines then sent them through capacitance back to the source impedance and everyone should have worked out by now that there is no need to do it.
Unwanted signals and their respective harmonics are the gateway to capacitance and if you can't find an unwanted signal with harmonics then create one, it really isn't so hard but it involves firstly creating a primary signal through resistance then filtering an unwanted signal through a capacitor not back to the source impedance but keeping it isolated and then using it while in isolation.
That's what this is all about - isolation, what ever happens in your bifilar array you must keep it away from your source otherwise the source will neutralise it.

[evostars]

thanks  for sharing Nav, have you build something with this knowledge?

I need to say this: "what about the 3rd field"

2 transverse fields (EM)
1 Longitudinal field.