Stan Meyer's Steam Resonator

brettly

Re: Stan Meyer's Steam Resonator
« Reply #75, on September 2nd, 2015, 02:43 AM »Last edited on September 2nd, 2015, 02:45 AM
just going back to davy oneness mentioning russ testing coil in hotel room, I believe that coil is the one that is thought to go  with the water injector of stan ( not the water heating).
The link of  davy on cold fusion at low temps, is an interesting read, though its dealing in large part on theoretical considerations on a wide range of topics in a short synopsis. It may well be directly relevant to the workings of stans system, but very difficult to use that in a meaningful practical manner to the problem of efficient water heating method that meyer has patented.

Once again ( as with stans work on the wfc) there is a lack of published research data by Stan showing the measured efficiencies of the water heating process. Stan also seems to have neglected to publish detailed results on the efficiencies of the wfc system ( he gives data on gas produced but only as statements not in the way of detailed research articles/papers).
Its always been a problem for me to accept this oversight by meyer. If you had developed a high efficiency water splitting and also water heating system, apart from patenting the systems, you would want to make sure you had irrefutable data/research showing how these ground breaking efficiencies were measured............in great detail.
I would also think this is an area of priority for anyone trying to replicate stans patents/experiments. Its a long journey from finding out about water splitting technology ( puharich/meyer), then understanding it at least in part, then to actually try replicate the work.
We are all at different levels in that journey, it would be truly remarkable to see a replication of meyers injector or water heating device, with some actual data on efficiency.
I think davy oneness contribution to the circuit reverse engineering is excellent contribution, but  it will take time to build the circuit and test it



Davy Oneness

Re: Stan Meyer's Steam Resonator
« Reply #76, on September 2nd, 2015, 12:53 PM »
"Once again ( as with stans work on the wfc) there is a lack of published research data by Stan showing the measured efficiencies of the water heating process. Stan also seems to have neglected to publish detailed results on the efficiencies of the wfc system ( he gives data on gas produced but only as statements not in the way of detailed research articles/papers).
Its always been a problem for me to accept this oversight by meyer. If you had developed a high efficiency water splitting and also water heating system, apart from patenting the systems, you would want to make sure you had irrefutable data/research showing how these ground breaking efficiencies were measured............in great detail."
I would have to disagree, he didn't just say, he proved it in demonstrations. He wasn't cooking the efficiency numbers, it was just that efficient it was obvious during demonstrations to the engineers and investors. I mean, how many people are driving cars around today on Faraday process style electrolysis? It is just one of those things, when you have it, you don't have to crunch numbers to see it.   Also,think of all his particle accelerator electricity generators, plus the home hot water heaters he had, all that seemed to be byproducts of the hho research.
Re: Stan Meyer's Steam Resonator
« Reply #77, on September 2nd, 2015, 12:55 PM »
Just found this now, guy back in 2011 doing it:

https://youtu.be/fsmdSkYEp6M

Matt Watts

Re: Stan Meyer's Steam Resonator
« Reply #78, on September 2nd, 2015, 01:41 PM »
Somebody care to contact these guys and share at least the principal they are using?
TheWaterenergy1@Hotmail.NL

Gunther Rattay

Re: Stan Meyer's Steam Resonator
« Reply #79, on September 2nd, 2015, 02:28 PM »
I will :) it's nearby ...

Matt Watts

Re: Stan Meyer's Steam Resonator
« Reply #80, on September 2nd, 2015, 06:13 PM »Last edited on September 2nd, 2015, 06:15 PM
Quote from Gunther Rattay on September 2nd, 2015, 02:28 PM
I will :) it's nearby ...
Excellent!

I'm very curious if they are using hetrodyning, particularly with the 11th harmonic.  May also be nice to know based on their YouTube comments if they really have a driver and tube set for sale and if the price is reasonable enough for someone like myself to acquire.  I have no problem reverse engineering what they have done and placing scope shots on this forum for people to reference, provided the device really works as they claim.

codwell

Re: Stan Meyer's Steam Resonator
« Reply #81, on September 5th, 2015, 12:05 AM »
This guy seems to be a scammer for me, he has just so much OU topics going on on his channel. I wrote him a mail once, but I didn't get a response, maybe you will be luckier.

Davy Oneness

Re: Stan Meyer's Steam Resonator
« Reply #82, on November 1st, 2015, 05:41 AM »
Update for those real that are following. After some experimentation, it is clear to me that one of the plates needs to be insulated to prevent electron flow and make it as Stanly puts it, an " ideal capacitor" .I experimented with the set up without plate coatings, and the water just becomes electrified from current flow.  Stan states for one cell the water has a resistance of 75oms(also states salt water can be used without problems even though even more conductive), so clearly the water is not the dielectric part of these capacitors. Instead the water is an extension of the negative plate while the positive electrode is insulated. In early stan prototypes, and xogen demo, the plates must be done with clear coat polyurethane, I think. The proof of all this is in Stan's car plug which is as he states,is a miniature compact version of his whole system, and the positive electrode has like 2mm ceramic insulation to prevent the current flow through in order to set up the electrostatic field for splitting. Why ceramic? because the poly is only good short term because of Ozone produced in the process will degrade the coating over time!    So all those replications with "conditioned plates" was about discovering that the plates need an amp restricting coating, but don't do both pos and neg! Because I am pretty sure the Neg isn't insulated for best results. Wonder where people like ravi and lawton at these days, my guess is they are keeping their results private now that they found the key. It is getting cold here, so not sure if I can get my plates coated to continue till spring, so hopefully someone can pick up and share until then, that is if there are any experimenters left around here.

securesupplies

Re: Stan Meyer's Steam Resonator
« Reply #83, on December 27th, 2015, 11:12 AM »Last edited on December 27th, 2015, 11:15 AM

Feel This doc is important on this topic

1 vic alternating 2 tube sets?

if coil balance to inductance fastest duration possible



sebosfato

Re: Stan Meyer's Steam Resonator
« Reply #84, on December 28th, 2015, 12:12 AM »
you may find interesting the eccles fracture cell device

brettly

Re: Stan Meyer's Steam Resonator
« Reply #85, on December 29th, 2015, 03:38 AM »Last edited on December 29th, 2015, 03:48 AM
referring to secure supplies attached doc ( modulators.pdf),
figure 3-33 is interesting in that it shows a capacitor with an inductor on each side, the text going with that picture has a very detailed explanation of how it works. Its beyond my understanding but might prove useful to others. It is an equivalent circuit of fig 3-32, it discusses saturation of the coils and resonant condition charge transfer, also current limiting. It may well be directly relevant to understanding stans circuitry.


securesupplies

Re: Stan Meyer's Steam Resonator
« Reply #86, on March 11th, 2017, 11:13 AM »Last edited on March 11th, 2017, 01:37 PM
clipped from ion x forum


AS IT HAS BEEN 12 months no add in ???????????

referenced here for thought

I too am fascinated by Meyer's ability to superheat water using voltage and not current.
We CAN DO THIS!
Keep up the good work all.
I am working on extracting the circuit from the pics of the home steam heater unit.
Wish me luck.
What threw me for a loop is the bridge rectifier on the 'steam resonator' transformer heatsink.
It sure does look like a power supply setup, but why were there complementary transistors there - PNP and NPN?
We know the following from that picture:

The Collectors of the two PNP transistors are tied together, and go to a black wire that has been cut.
The emitters of one of the NPN and PNP transistors (the pair to the left) go through a 220 ohm resistor and then tie together to the coil.
The emitters of the transistor pair to the right do the same.
The base connections on all transistors have been cut.
It is almost like an h-bridge of some type, but this is not certain.
Re: Stan Meyer's Steam Resonator
« Reply #87, on March 11th, 2017, 11:14 AM »
 How were you able to find out they were 220 Ohm resistors?

Also,
The H bridge is the same conclusion TonyW and I have accepted after he mentioned it a while back.
It is also why I am confused that stan didn't just use use a push pull circuit at the primary coil?
Also, each Steam Resonator coil has at least 3 seperate coils. It looks like 1 primary and 2 secondary coils.
The plates of the steam resonator do not form a capacitor, they are merely plates in the water in which the current flows through along with the voltage wave. I already have the driving circuit down and wokring, I am currently trying to find a coil which I think could perform the operation of the steam resonator. I think the coil is about the same as the VIC only without the negative choke.
Re: Stan Meyer's Steam Resonator
« Reply #88, on March 11th, 2017, 11:14 AM »
..I think I know know why Stan made the flip-flop circuit on the secondary side instead of the Primary side. If he would have make the flip-flop on the Primary side, it would mess up the resonance, by placing it on the Secondary side it allows resonance to continue during the process. what do you think about this?

Also, the FWB rectifier is connected to the output of the Steam Resonator transformer.
Re: Stan Meyer's Steam Resonator
« Reply #89, on March 11th, 2017, 11:17 AM »
If you have figured out the driver circuit, please enlighten the rest of us.
The resistors match exactly with the 220 ohm resistors on Stan's other vic circuits and photos. He seems to like using 220 ohm resistors with his coils for some reason. Tony & waterfreak

Thanks for the input, the more sides we look at this the better we will all understand it....

I'm still contemplating if resonance was used in the steam resonator circuit? Looking at the home heating unit each switching transistor had a diode which would prevent any series resonance. Also, the steam resonator tubes do not act as a capacitor. If there is resonance it would have to be one of the coils resonating.

Note that in the buggy steam res VIC there were several high watt resistors. I think they were used to limit current but also protect the transistors in case the switching overlapped. The home heating unit used a huge core. Look at how thick the laminations were built up to! This was made for some serious inductance. Imo the inductive reactance of the coil performs current limiting. From my studies I think the circuit is similiar to the VIC, only without a negative choke.


Meyer states in a News Release that the steam resonator is an offshoot of the VIC....In all the diagrams and explanations in the TB resonance is not mentioned. One might think that the term 'resonator' implies resonance but that is a different kind of resonance. When referring to resonant cavities or waveguides the resonance is not the same thing as resonance within a circuit.


Waterfreak...

I should have actually called it the switching circuit, not the driving circuit. I designed a switching circuit on multisim which is very basic. It consists of a 555, a counter, and an RS flip flop to turn on and off the polarity switching transistors. Anyone who knows electronics can easily design something similiar.

And the plastic tape between the windings, that's no secret. It's just insulation for the coils. It's common in most transformers. Likely kapton tape or something similiar.

UPDATE: Just got a PM from Don after asking him about the VIC card for the steam resonator. Don said the card was identical to the other VIC cards. So resonance was used in the Steam Resonator. This brings up more questions???
With the microcontroller used in the home heating unit it may also have used resonance....
Re: Stan Meyer's Steam Resonator
« Reply #90, on March 11th, 2017, 11:19 AM »
HMS, thanx for the nfo.
I believe you are correct in your assumptions.
As far as the vic board being identical to the other resonant cavity control boards, they may have looked identical, but I wonder if all parts of the board were actually used?
Many of Stan's boards have wire bridges, etc., and I wonder if he only used part of the board in the steam resonator.
I do not think he used resonance in the steam setup, but I could be wrong.
Here's a hand-drawn diagram of the steam resonator circuit someone made on another forum - I found it here:

http://stansdream.com.ru/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=6e0402099017ae0ee0717d8aa83348b0&topic=4.0

Does it look like a polarity switching circuit to you?
As far as the picture from the home heating unit HMS, it could be a simple power supply transformer, supplying power for the unit.
I don't know - the wires and the transformer itself appear to be professionally made standard step-down xfmr to me.
Your guess is as good as mine.

But, if you look at the control board, you will see Stan used two transistors in pairs - NTE247(NPN) and NTE248(PNP), which are silicon complementary transistors.
He also used NPN and PNP pairs in the steam resonator vic we are discussing.
There is a common thread here, if we expand on it and follow it more closely, I believe.
I really want to get this working - It's cold here!
Plus, how many people could use a water heater that does not use tons of amps?

Something else I found interesting is the home heating unit board itself - it has the filename "WFCDRIVR.CKT" silkscreened on it.
If someone had access to this file, it would reveal a lot. I'm sure it was on one of the computers that was with the estate.
Also, on the control board, you will see the silkscreen says "24VAC".
The transformer appears to have 7 wires (that we can see).

HMS, your assumption of the coil having a secondary with bifilar chokes seems to be supported by the patent diagram.
Notice also the chokes (only) have a common core. In other parts of the patent, Stan states the coil is "together bifilar wrapped in equal length".
There is a mention of "resonant charging chokes".
Re: Stan Meyer's Steam Resonator
« Reply #91, on March 11th, 2017, 11:20 AM »
BTW I think you are right about the coil...There is an aftermarket power supply (note pic below on the right side) attached to the home heating unit which runs off of +24V.

I have also noticed Meyer stated the primary and secondary coils are bifilar wrapped equal in length, but he also states in the same TB section that the voltage is directly related to the turns ratio "Voltage intensity is directly related to the number of turns of each coil..." (TB p11-3).

Attached is a multisim replication of the crossover circuit. As you can see it's similiar to an H bridge circuit. R5 represents the steam resonator....Please note that the values of the resistances and transistors are not correct. I have been changing values to see the different effects and take measurements. The waveform shows the polarity switching. When transistors Q1 and Q3 are switched on the polarity across R5 will be in one direction, when transistors Q2 and Q4 are switched on the polarity will reverse. As you can also see there is a brief period between polarity switching. This is also shown in the Tech Brief.

In the waveform a DC voltage was applied across the circuit. When a coil is used the coil can be pulsed faster than the switching and then the waveform will represent what is shown in the tech brief.
Re: Stan Meyer's Steam Resonator
« Reply #92, on March 11th, 2017, 11:21 AM »
I have a few ideas of my own based on what info and pics we have seen. I built robots many years ago and to drive the motors I designed H bridges for forward and reverse and used PWM (pulse width modulation) to control the speed, but give full power. I’ll see if I can dig up the circuits I used. If I can get it working, think of this: Take a standard 30 gal electric water heater, build a “Steam Resonator” element to replace the 220 volt element. Hot water using a fraction of the power needs. The only thing I would worry about is leaching of chromium from the stainless. Would run some test before I hooked it into my house. It also would not be a major retrofit to replace my 5 ton propane furnace with a hot water heat system. As for now, I’m just trying to find time to work on the 5 coil VIC stuff.
Re: Stan Meyer's Steam Resonator
« Reply #93, on March 11th, 2017, 11:23 AM »Last edited on March 11th, 2017, 11:24 AM
Tony Woodside

This is a circuit I built back last year that does the same as the Steam Resonator circuit.

not sure why its not working for you, I use distilled water for all my testing. You have to have two signals, one is the resonant frequency signal and the other is the gating signal.
 have breadboarded it twice, and this is all I get at the output before the transformer.
One channel stays on all the time (or the frequency is too high on one of the sig gens - two 555 timer circuits)
Wouldn't it be easier to use just one sig gen and invert it instead of two?
This circuit's output is not clean at all, very noisy.
Also, you must have used tap water in your test cell and not distilled?
I am using distilled to ensure I get no electrolysis, but cannot get it to do anything.
I do get small bubbles when I use another circuit which puts out around 450VAC (flyback driver circuit)...
Re: Stan Meyer's Steam Resonator
« Reply #94, on March 11th, 2017, 11:25 AM »
Thanks for the info Tony.
It looks good in theory, but in reality that circuit does not work.
The Meyer waveform, I believe, should be channel A on, then both channels off, then channel B on, then both channels off, etc.
When breadboarded, your circuit only produces short spikes which occur at the same time.
Also, shouldn't there be a diode on the secondary of the output coil?
We have to start somewhere - I need to determine the relationship of the two complementary transistor driver circuit.
I think this may hold the key.
We can generate khz square waves quite easily with 555 timers.
Re: Stan Meyer's Steam Resonator
« Reply #95, on March 11th, 2017, 11:26 AM »
This is the layout of my circuit.
Re: Stan Meyer's Steam Resonator
« Reply #96, on March 11th, 2017, 11:31 AM »
Wow, thanks for that info.
The waveform I get is channel A is on 4x as long as channel B.
At least it does alternate now though.
I still do not get anything happening at the cell though.
Right now I am so frustrated I think the only way to get the water to do anything is to drive two 40kv flyback transformers on and off and shock the water with it.
I'm sure that may cause an effect of some type ;)

All the other things I have tried have failed, and I think the voltage just isn't enough.
What kind of transformer are you using - a step-up?
I used a primary of approx. 600 turns to a secondary of 3500 turns - no effect.
I also tried a primary of approx. 600T and secondary of 5500 turns - no effect.
I also tried with and without a diode on the secondary - no effect.
It's no wonder most people say this is all bunk - so far, it appears to be.
The average experimenter would have given up on all this decades ago.
If only we had Stan's devices to examine...

I think that's because it's like what Steve Meyer said "It's a tuned system". If a single one of the many different parameters of the circuit are not correct it will not work....At least for the VIC and resonant cavity....Not sure if the steam resonator is the same. The use of the driving circuitry of the steam resonator coil being identical to the resonant cavity driving circuitry seems to suggest i

Re: Stan Meyer's Steam Resonator
« Reply #97, on March 11th, 2017, 11:31 AM »
Circuit explained:
 
The transistors are configured as an H-bridge.
This series of transistors will take 400 volts.
T1 is a 1:10 step-up. T2 is the choke coils bifilar wrapped similar to the 8XA.
The bridge diodes should act as the blocking diode.
The CD4047 will deliver a near perfect 50/50 pulse.
The only thing I’m not sure of is the value of the bias resistors for the transistors,
and the overall frequencies.
I plan on winding the coils on a large ferrite U core, probably with 18 gauge wire.
Re: Stan Meyer's Steam Resonator
« Reply #99, on March 11th, 2017, 12:49 PM »
I think Meyer's water heating is more along the lines of using electrostatic forces to cause oscillation, about the same way a microwave does. Personally I think those patents are right on, but they don't provide any diagrams. The explanation they give though fits right in with Meyer's. I think the only difference is Meyer used resonance to reduce the power requirements.

Don stated the steam resonator driver circuit was the exact same as all the circuits used to drive the resonant cavities.
From the picture we know the steam resonator VIC (the buggy one) had 3 seperate coils, so we have a primary coil, a secondary coil, and a pulse pickup coil.

I tend to think the primary coil is the one connected to the FWB since it is the heaviest gauge. And the secondary coil is connected to the NPN/PNP transistors. The connections from the transistors to the steam resonator tubes are not there. I think the wire ends not connected to anything are the pulse pickup coil. I think the FWB may have been used to protect the primary driving transistor from HV spikes but in that case I wonder why regular diodes weren't just used?