research information sharing

brettly

Re: research information sharing
« Reply #50, on June 28th, 2014, 04:17 AM »
according to dia on this page
http://urcar-engine.blogspot.com.au/
it shows the inlet valves open at about 1atmos pressure, so there will be full pressure available for check valve to open ( inlet valve is open whilst cylinder is under negative pressure a bit below atmos pressure)
From memory on one revolution of an engine there is no firing, so its possible some water will be wasted on that stroke.

kenssurplus

Re: research information sharing
« Reply #51, on June 28th, 2014, 05:23 PM »
Quote from brettly on May 21st, 2014, 03:57 AM
the video above he had no success using water fogger to get same effect.

I might just mention also that when water drops hit water repelling surfaces ( such as teflon) they gain a positive charge, so a teflon coating inside the combustion chamber would add positive charge to the drops ( I was thinking of going for negative charged water) so it might be necessary to go for pos charged water drops if using teflon, but it might be better than charge being lost on metal surfaces in combustion chamber.
I'm not sure if there is a simple way to teflon coat a combustion chamber.

One more thought: platinum coated sparkplugs might be useful for igniting hho gas in chamber without requiring a spark.
Here is a teflon spray designed for repelling snow and ice.  I don't know how long it would hold up in an engine environment but might prove your concept even if briefly.

Dupont anti snow and ice spray - Amazon

brettly

Re: research information sharing
« Reply #52, on June 28th, 2014, 08:43 PM »
thanks ken

Jeff Nading

Re: research information sharing
« Reply #53, on June 28th, 2014, 09:23 PM »Last edited on June 28th, 2014, 09:28 PM
Just to through this in here, about 6 years or so ago I veiwed a documentry on PBS of someone showing an expeirment they preformed. It involved a 22 caliber long rifle blank, a drop of water, a 1/4" thick block of aluminum and a 3/4" thick block of steel with a hole in it, both blocks were 4' square bolted together.

Let me just say at this point I would not try this and I am not suggesting anyone else try this either for it would be very dangerous, could get hurt or even be killed for trying a fool thing like this.

Well to finish and get to the point, the fool person set the blocks on a table with the hole on the top, droped a drop of water in the hole, placed the 22 shell in the hole, hole being the same size, hit the 22 shell with a hammer, it went off [exploded], the hammer almost came back and hit the guy. After the smoke cleared he turned the blocks over and there was a 3/4" hole in the aluminum block. The fool did it again without water, there was a hole, but not nearly as large.

So what I got out of it was that when water is severly, violently and instantaniously compressed it will cause a massive explosion. Just something to think on, not to do. O:-)

brettly

Re: research information sharing
« Reply #54, on June 28th, 2014, 10:45 PM »
thats a good point,
in meyres sparkplug the liquid water and air gases/exhuast gas are compressed in voltage zone,
those gases change the burn rate, and according to meyer a 0.01" gap acts as a quenching zone ( with those gases added)
I'm guessing once the water turns into hho it  exits nozzle and will expand. Using a larger gap might be risky.
I just did some quick calcs using equation 21 in memo  426 ( page 7-8) to calculate capacitance of injector voltage zone.

c= ( 0.02249 * dielect of water * area plates) divide by distance between plates

( where e/eo is dielect of water = 85)( units in inches for the formula)

put in 1 square inch as plate area ( only use area of one plate)
and distance bewteen plates of 0.01"
gives c= 1911.65pf
or approx 2 nf
So a 1 sq inch plates at 0.01" separation has a capacity of 2nf ( with water inbetween them)
( if my calcs are correct)


Jeff Nading

Re: research information sharing
« Reply #57, on June 29th, 2014, 08:42 AM »
Good find, these Ignition Coils are used in LP and natual gas furnaces, appliances and such.

brettly

Re: research information sharing
« Reply #58, on June 29th, 2014, 09:37 PM »
since the meyer injector is quite hard to replicate, I've thought up a simpler way to test the process. Pic attached, the inlet ( labelled 1) could be made to accomodate air/exhaust inlet to mix with water mist ( via standard car injector).
This shape is simple and should still perform waveguide function.
Re: research information sharing
« Reply #59, on June 29th, 2014, 09:39 PM »
thin bolts holding the device together would need to be insulated from the metal, could be tricky.
Re: research information sharing
« Reply #60, on July 1st, 2014, 12:30 AM »
just another thought:
in the voltage zone of the injector the water will be under pressure ( since its forced through this narrow aperture), wfcells are normally not under high pressure, so this may has some effect on the gas production rate in that zone , I'm guessing less production the higher the pressure.  It might be possible to work out the pressure in that zone using 125psi as input pressure.
I am though somewhat confused on what effect the valve ball/spring in the injector will have on that pressure.
I"m guessing the valve ball spring will need to have its own pressure  value ( i.e. the pressure at which it opens) but I dont understand what effect that will have on the  pressure in the voltage zone.
IF using a standard petrol injector at the inlet, it might not be necessary to have a check valve,
as the injector will perform this function. A standard petrol injector though works well below 125psi, though they will probably still perform as intended at those pressures.
Re: research information sharing
« Reply #61, on July 2nd, 2014, 05:40 AM »Last edited on November 29th, 2014, 05:18 PM
does anyone have any comments on this video by valyonpz
"      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HI7mROsKW30#ws    "
some very interesting work, he's simplified stans circuit getting rid of high freq pulse, and two series inductors ( i think!). Seems instead of step charging a one step charge can work.

Gunther Rattay

Re: research information sharing
« Reply #62, on July 2nd, 2014, 06:31 AM »Last edited on July 2nd, 2014, 06:34 AM
valyonpz uses a standard steel core transformer. so it´s obvious that voltage will decrease at higher frequencies because steel won´t follow the current change dI/dt like ferrite material does. so his "ultra-short" pulses must stay in the higher µs range and can´t be much shorter.

smart application, he seems to use switches (it sounds so) to reconfigurate his configuration. so he can switch between "correct" and "wrong".

we can see the capacitor component at discharge time during gating. so the cell is no true resistor but also capacitive.

what a pity that noone ever takes parallel amp measurements thru the cell by a scope thru a shunt to discover if the cell is a non-linear resistor or not.

it´s easy - so what???

brettly

Re: research information sharing
« Reply #63, on July 3rd, 2014, 10:59 AM »
thnx gunther for comments.
He does mention on that video that secondary voltage he has to use current  on primary to increase voltage in secondary ( if I read it correctly)
If he is correct and he can achieve same results as Meyer without charging chokes, then it is much easier to replicate ( although it may lead to some limitations) He gives his circuits for the system but the video and his links are slightly different.
I"m wondering if anyone can assist in this dilemma.
He gives the pulse/pwm circuit in one diagram ( using 10v), but the section with the wfc ( 24v) he gives two different diagrams ( . I've cut/paste the pulse/pwm part with the wfc part of the  diagrams together to show the two different options.)
The first diagram shows the pulse circuit connected to the wfc circuit via a 40106 chip where he connects the 10v from the pulse circuit to the 40106 ( shown in red dotted line)
The second diagram he used the 24v on the wfc side to power the 40106
(this wfc circuit has an additional 7810 component also)
I'm hoping the first diagram will work as its simpler, can any circuit gurus comment no this?

It seems this circuit will need a 10v and a 24v source to work, would be nice if it could all be run off 12v would make it simpler again.

Attached also is a picture of his transformer setup, its a 220v too 330v transformer 400watt, he has wound 15 turns on outside of the primary which is related to the 10v somehow??
So I gather the secondary of the transformer is not being used. In effect the 15 turns he added is now the primary and the secondary is the 220v winding of the transformer.
His 15 turns are thick wire I'm guessing so can take quite alot of current.
Which one is best option to try?
Re: research information sharing
« Reply #64, on July 4th, 2014, 02:50 AM »Last edited on July 4th, 2014, 03:18 AM
valonpz second circuit above contains 7810 component, its a 24/12v to 10v regulator, so looks like ic40106 requires 10v , 40106 is a schmidt trigger from datasheet it uses 3v to 15v input, so 10v not 24v should be correct.
I think the function of 40106 is to make a very clean square wave from the freq pulse circuit

I think it will also be possible to use a schmitt trigger in place of pll circuit for auto tuning to resonant frequency

~Russ

Re: research information sharing
« Reply #65, on July 7th, 2014, 11:41 AM »Last edited on July 9th, 2014, 10:50 AM
i'm using the Original injector drawings.

so its a .01" yes

ordering new end mills for the injector so once those are done we will be getting closer...

~Russ


brettly

Re: research information sharing
« Reply #66, on July 8th, 2014, 04:04 AM »Last edited on July 8th, 2014, 04:34 AM
typo russ : 0.01"
just a comment on the joe cell:
I think alot of electrical phenomena with water are all inter-related, understanding one part might help understanding some other process involving water.
this link
http://pesn.com/2012/05/19/9602096_A_Joe_cells_unit_charge/
James Goss talks about water charging up to high voltages if well insulated from earth in joe cell type system. He also worked out that the rate of bubbling influences the rate of charge up time.
This phenomenon was discovered and found practical application in Lord Kelvins Water Electrograph ( late 19th centry) ( different device to kelvin water dropper it predates water dropper)
Meyer is using high voltage pulses to split aligned water molecules.
I suspect in the joe cell that if its well insulated from earth the water holds a high voltage charge,
and that is creating the disassociation to hho, though i'm not familiar with fine details of joe cell,
the stages of preparing a joe cell may well be conditioning the stainless plates with oxide layer ( insulator).
So meyer is using water as capacitor/ joe cell it acts as capacitor ( may explain why its hard to replicate since any earth discharges the cell), and high voltage also plays a role.
Kelvin water dropper uses separated/stored charge via water stream split up into droplets.
Kelvin water electrograph uses break up of water stream into droplets to create charge separation and measure atmospheric voltage gradient.
So another aspect of this process is the water/air interface, if a water body breaks into droplets, charge separation occurs ( water body goes positive, water droplets go negative).
The surface of meyers cell will also undergo charge separation how this can be used or has any relavance I have no idea, just thinking aloud I guess.
Some people have observed cells continuing to produce hho after power turned off, I suspect the cell was well insulated from ground, and held its charge for some time. The discharge of water as capacitor somehow producing hho. A very well insulated cell ( from earth) might continue for some time to produce hho.


Re: research information sharing
« Reply #67, on July 8th, 2014, 04:26 AM »
this video of a bouncing water drop:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbGz1njqhxU#
Its commented that its air under the drop causes this effect, but I wonder if its charge transfer
between the water body and water drop that changes surface tension and causes the drop to spontaneously turn into smaller drop ( reyleigh limit) with new diameter  fitting the remaining charge it has.
( leidenfrost effect the drop has different shape)
Re: research information sharing
« Reply #68, on July 8th, 2014, 09:25 PM »
0.01" is 0.254mm a sheet of printing paper is 0.1mm, two sheets of print paper on top of each other is approx 0.01" its a very small spacing. Another way of looking at it: 1/4 of a mm.


~Russ

Re: research information sharing
« Reply #69, on July 9th, 2014, 10:53 AM »
yes i fixed my type,

thanks!

~Russ

brettly

Re: research information sharing
« Reply #71, on July 12th, 2014, 07:58 AM »
seems these coils are used for compact fluoro lights ccfl, used as back lights in lcd screens and laptops.
they are based on a "royer circuit", and have some similarities to meyers inductors,
royer circuit is an interesting read
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royer_oscillator

OliverKuckr

Re: research information sharing
« Reply #72, on July 24th, 2014, 10:38 AM »Last edited on July 25th, 2014, 09:59 AM
Quote from brettly on April 3rd, 2014, 03:45 AM
brief description of the experiment:
plastic coke bottle cut around the middle, inserted and siliconed an acoustic water fogger onto the bottom of the bottle, bottle lid has 24v exit for fogger wire, also a plastic tube to blow into which forces the water fog through the cold plasma.
A plastic tube exits just above water line, into the plastic tube is inserted the carbon electrode of a car spark plug lead, then a portion of glass tube ( i used a flourescent light globe tube, phosphorus was removed using pipe cleaner), cut the tube underwater to desired length.
Unfortunately I didn't have any straight glass tube, so used a curved one but straight would be better.
The carbon inner of the high tension sparkplug cable is inserted into the clear glass tube.
A piece of metal mesh is wrapped around the glass tube. The two high voltage cables from the ozone generator ( cold plasma generator) are connected to the sparkplug wire and the mesh.
Purple cold plasma is generated inside the glass tube, I blow on the plastic tube which forces the water fog through the cold plasma.
At the exit of the glass tube when blowing the mist through the cold plasma I held
e cigarettes lighter.
pics below
Looks very effective.. I will definitely try it..Cold plasma generator seems so exciting..

brettly

Re: research information sharing
« Reply #73, on July 24th, 2014, 11:03 PM »
I made some mods to the apparatus,
an eyedropper tube used at outlet, an aquarium airpump used to force air through the bottle,
you can charge up the water droplets by placing a voltage source with one electrode under water level and one electrode above water level, the charged water droplets will stay below the top electrode. I used a high voltage to charge the droplets using car ignition coil and jacobs ladder circuit.
I didn't get any hho using cold plasma, but I had only used an ozone generator circuit, if you can vary the frequency you might get something.
the main discovery was that the water droplets can only exit as droplets if the exit hole is large enough, an eyedropper hole allows droplets through, but a needle/syringe hole is too small, and the water condenses to bulk liquid in the narrow diameter hole, it means that meyers sparkplug voltage zone is dealing with bulk water not with droplets, quite important to understand that if trying to replicate meyers sparkplug design. That point is not mentioned in his writings as far as I can see.