research information sharing

brettly

research information sharing
« on December 11th, 2013, 08:59 PM »Last edited on December 11th, 2013, 09:25 PM by brettly
Just making a thread where I can put out some info that I think might be useful for sparkplug meyer type replication.
uv 226nm laser was used to split 0xygen into atomic oxygen,
it also excited the atomic oxygen and caused it to emit infrared at wavelength 845nm
research by Richard Miles and colleagues at Princeton University
Science 331 442.
http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2011/jan/27/physicists-create-backward-laser

the focus they used was tiny 1mm by 1/100th mm, would this wavelength be useful for laser
excitation as used my meyer?
RE: research information sharing
« Reply #1, on December 11th, 2013, 10:12 PM »
i realise you dont want the monatomic oxygen to emit infrared, you want to remove electrons? to stop infrared emiision

something else:
typical car vacuum pressures 350-600mmhg
take say 400mmhg for manifold pressure this gives boiling point for water at 80degC
so heating  water with exhaust heat you can get 100% saturated air should not be a problem to go into meyer type plug

securesupplies

RE: research information sharing
« Reply #2, on December 12th, 2013, 12:57 AM »
Thanks you this was helpful the vacuum pressure and and btter mannaging gas is very important to follow on cars and bikes
Very good post.

brettly

RE: research information sharing
« Reply #3, on December 12th, 2013, 05:22 AM »Last edited on December 12th, 2013, 05:26 AM by brettly
thnx for positive feedback, i'll just put random stuff up that i think might be useful.

next:
simple method to measure capacitance of water
uses schmitt trigger oscillator, freq of oscillator changes according to water capacitance,
might be useful for tuning resonant freq with changing capacitance of water
see
http://soulysolar.mudventions.com/?p=681
RE: research information sharing
« Reply #4, on December 18th, 2013, 07:37 PM »
in relation to last  post:
circuit used
[attachment=4822]
for 250ml of water it osc at 173khz
for 500ml of water it osc at 208khz
he finds a linear relationship between vol water and freq
question:
is it possible this circuit is happening upon the resonant freq of the water?
looks like its in the ballpark

next question: if this simple circuit is vibrating at the resonant frequency why not
use it as the frequency generator?



Matt Watts

RE: research information sharing
« Reply #5, on December 18th, 2013, 10:59 PM »Last edited on December 18th, 2013, 11:06 PM by Matt Watts
Quote from brettly on December 18th, 2013, 07:37 PM
in relation to last  post:
circuit used

for 250ml of water it osc at 173khz
for 500ml of water it osc at 208khz
he finds a linear relationship between vol water and freq
question:
is it possible this circuit is happening upon the resonant freq of the water?
looks like its in the ballpark
I would say it's honing in on the frequency at which the container attracts other electromagnetic signals.  Could easily have nothing to do with water.  That circuit has no ability to discriminate the vast number of signals zooming around and the container could be acting as nothing more than an antenna.

I would be curious if he tried different liquids and see if there is any correlation between the container size versus the liquid content.  I would also be curious what happens when he moves the test apparatus around to different physical locations.

Also, I don't understand the reasoning whereby water could have different resonant frequencies depending upon the size container it is in.  If the opinion is that water has a resonant frequency, certainly it wouldn't change by being placed in different containers.
Quote from brettly on December 18th, 2013, 07:37 PM
next question: if this simple circuit is vibrating at the resonant frequency why not
use it as the frequency generator?
Guess I would have to know what "the resonant frequency" is first.  If it is "the resonant frequency" your are interested in, then sure, it could be used as a signal generator.  Again, that frequency could just be the natural harmonic of the beaker with that exact amount of fluid in it; doesn't mean it has anything to do with the resonant frequency of water.  All objects have some natural frequency.  This has been explored by Dale Pond and his Sympathetic Vibratory Physics.  When I think about liquid water though, I don't consider that an object so to speak, since it takes the shape of the container, which likely just modifies the resonant frequency of that container.  But even so, you would still have to convince me all external signals have been eliminated--maybe put the whole thing in a Faraday cage.

brettly

RE: research information sharing
« Reply #6, on January 4th, 2014, 03:19 PM »
thanks matt for comments

Kelvin Water Dropper:
i'm interested in how meyers sparkplugs work.
Kelvin water dropper experiment:
water falling through air gains charge ( or looses charge I dont know)
conventional thoughts on how it operates: slight difference in water streams charge
is magnified...........but is this true? could it be water is acting as a capacitor and discharges similar to meyer wfc? why discharges at around 10kv?
relevance: meyer sparkplug has mixture of charged air and water droplets, water droplets moving through air can acquire charge in order of 10kv just by moving through air.
outer two or so atoms on water surface are polarised ( due to surface interactions?)
remember reading this somewhere, inside droplet atoms are  not orientated normally,
just 2 or 3 layers on surface of droplet. relevance? no idea! but may be related to water charging as it fall through air.
How lightning works will have some relevance in meyers sparkplugs so an area worth researching


Blazer

RE: research information sharing
« Reply #7, on January 4th, 2014, 09:05 PM »
Much is said about "laws of thermodynamacs ect ..."  We fail to look at the given circumstances we find ourselves in.  I have been operating a free energy devise for years, almost since the day we were born!  Look in the mirror, then apply  the law of "follow the $$ and greed".  Seems I have fallen for the oldest trick in the book and others suck that value and monetitize it for their own.  Our energy is the only true value and others have manipulated and decieved us.  Here is a link to a new concept that even Stan did not have access to.  I had to listen a couple of times to catch everything.  Had this been around in Stans day we would surely be driving with water as a fuel source today.   /watch?v=yCUsr3YJ7T4&list=LLO3E4TH4gJVwPyaIPATikwA
RE: research information sharing
« Reply #8, on January 4th, 2014, 09:42 PM »
Seems free energy devises been around almost since the beginning of mankind.  Maybe others are looking at us and our labors as their so called "free energy devise"  Seems early in mans evolution some of the more clever, cunning and decepive, got others to supply all their free energy thru manipulation, threat and cohercion. I believe had Stan had access to these principles presented here we  would all be using water as fuel today.  I do not wish to break the forum rules but the concepts here are very important if we want free energy as we know it.     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCUsr3YJ7T4

brettly

RE: research information sharing
« Reply #9, on January 5th, 2014, 09:18 PM »
just went to work out the surface area/volume in meyers sparkplug for the area where electric field is applied to the water/air/exhuast mixture, there is an error in the plug dimensions posted on rwg website.....will do a diagram where the error is if anyone interested ( the numbers/dimensions dont add up correctly )
RE: research information sharing
« Reply #10, on January 6th, 2014, 04:06 AM »
attached shows the error of meyer sparkplug dimensions

geenee

RE: research information sharing
« Reply #11, on January 6th, 2014, 06:01 AM »
Quote from brettly on January 6th, 2014, 04:06 AM
attached shows the error of meyer sparkplug dimensions
great observation.

thanks
geenee

brettly

RE: research information sharing
« Reply #12, on January 7th, 2014, 04:10 AM »
just did some calculations on the volume of water/air that is in the active field zone of the meyer plugs, i get 0.121ml ( assuming my calcs are correct, i've only used the cone shaped area, not the flat cylinder end of the cone as its dimension is unknown but will not effect the results by much)
its a tiny tiny volume can fit in there at any one, but knowing the volume can allow for calculations of capacitance i hope.
it will also mean that the water/air/exhaust mix must be flowing past the active splitting region as i guess you need 50ml or so enough for combustion to move piston.
So approx 1/10 th of one millilitre is in the active zone at any given time.
Re: research information sharing
« Reply #13, on April 2nd, 2014, 10:29 PM »
not sure on what the point is of building ones own vic coil, when you can buy an ozone generator that uses a vic coil, some even use dual vic coils, also they are cheap from $16usd on ebay.
I've done a test using a 24v acoustic water fogger ( atomiser), the water droplets then flow through a narrow glass tube, which has a cold plasma within it produced by a cheap ebay vic coil style ozone generator. Puting a flame at the exit there is no 'pop' or sign of hydrogen.
There are a few scientific papers showing the generation of hydrogen from water droplets in cold plasma ( also called a non-equalibrium plasma), but the amount produced is not high.
Because I did not find enough hydrogen to explode in a naked flame doesn't mean this system doesn't have merit, there are many variables that may play a role eg.
voltage/frequency/recombination of hydrogen , but is worth playing with as its very similar to myers water spark plug system. One research paper lists approx 20 different reactions that occur in this type of system, its complex.


Axil

Re: research information sharing
« Reply #14, on April 2nd, 2014, 10:50 PM »
Quote from brettly on April 2nd, 2014, 10:29 PM
Puting a flame at the exit there is no 'pop' or sign of hydrogen.
Have you tried to feed this cold plasma to a auto catalytic converter to look for heat production? I suspect that the atomizer will produce water based nano-particles of water (H and O) through cavitation in the production of the fog. Application of EMF to the fog can only help form water particles.   

brettly

Re: research information sharing
« Reply #15, on April 3rd, 2014, 03:12 AM »
I did search for sources of platinum to act as a catalyst but never thought to use it to measure temperature of recombination of h and o.
I'll take some pics of my setup, very simple setup for experimenting and very cheap to make.
meanwhile some pics of vic coils which are used in these cheap ozone generators. I would imagine the vic coils used in these devices ( assume they are not called vic coils, no idea the correct terminology for them), are keeping the amps low and volts high. The ozone generator that I am using is from ebay, the vic coil is covered in resin so not accessible. They seem to range from around 3kv to 15kv output, freq seem to vary from about 1khz to 3khz. Input can be 12v, 110v or 220v. Since they are covered in resin I doubt it will be possible to adjust frequency they run at.
a couple of pics of typical ozone generators on ebay showing the vic coils they use
Re: research information sharing
« Reply #16, on April 3rd, 2014, 03:45 AM »
brief description of the experiment:
plastic coke bottle cut around the middle, inserted and siliconed an acoustic water fogger onto the bottom of the bottle, bottle lid has 24v exit for fogger wire, also a plastic tube to blow into which forces the water fog through the cold plasma.
A plastic tube exits just above water line, into the plastic tube is inserted the carbon electrode of a car spark plug lead, then a portion of glass tube ( i used a flourescent light globe tube, phosphorus was removed using pipe cleaner), cut the tube underwater to desired length.
Unfortunately I didn't have any straight glass tube, so used a curved one but straight would be better.
The carbon inner of the high tension sparkplug cable is inserted into the clear glass tube.
A piece of metal mesh is wrapped around the glass tube. The two high voltage cables from the ozone generator ( cold plasma generator) are connected to the sparkplug wire and the mesh.
Purple cold plasma is generated inside the glass tube, I blow on the plastic tube which forces the water fog through the cold plasma.
At the exit of the glass tube when blowing the mist through the cold plasma I held a cigarette lighter.
pics below
Re: research information sharing
« Reply #17, on April 11th, 2014, 02:54 AM »
the cold plasma generator i'm using has a positive and negative output lead, its not ac output.
Idea: if anyone out there has a meyer replication sparkplug............try one of these cold plasma generators on it.
Meyers sparkplug the plasma region, well the electric field region is very very tiny, having all the plasma in a very small area/volume it might just work. my experiment the area/volume of the plasma is quite large ( approx 2 to 3cm length and 1cm dia approx), puting all that plasma into a tiny exit area might make a large difference, I will try build something to test it
Re: research information sharing
« Reply #18, on April 11th, 2014, 02:57 AM »
if the needle of a standard petrol fuel injector, is not electrically connected to the outside casing ( when in the open position)
it might well be useable
Re: research information sharing
« Reply #19, on April 11th, 2014, 03:08 AM »
read a paper recently, which confirmed that water droplets in micron size range can act as capacitors due to surface charge I think
Re: research information sharing
« Reply #20, on April 22nd, 2014, 09:16 AM »
have recently been viewing stans lectures/videos in more detail.
I notice that his lectures did not change from 1989 to 1997, he uses exact same analogies/examples/slides to explain things. They are worth viewing for some details.
But somewhat disconcerting that over such a long time period there is no variation from lecture to lecture.

heres some notes I took from an early and a late interview that might be of interest:

1997 lecture stan meyer

electrovalent bond = voltage stress pulls apart
slows down spin velocity when water stretches
tuned pulsing circuit, tune into capacitance of water
bifilar coils enhance amp restriction
higher the voltage more gase produced ( non - linear)
cheapest way wins economically....kiss ( late 1970s he started)
water goes into ionised state like flourescent tubes
tune into dielectric value of water .....atomic resonance...more h produced
burn rate adjust = 325m/s normal  adjust to 37cm/s
water absorbs ambient air ( 10%) its also released
water used as a gas mixing regulator?
anti spark back = mix with non combustable gases
means can retrofit since burn rate is same
air mixed to determine burn rate ( burn air to get non combustible gases)
electrons extraction circuit = freed electrons
add laser energy gives bigger boom
he believes in zero point energy = energy coming into atoms from somewhere
 to keep electrons spinning
gluons= energy pathways glues quarks together
slow down spin of particles in atom needs energy to come in
he says its one way valve
pulse adds energy to water atom turn it off energy is still there, he thinks its
zero point energy
prime water atom take to sub critical state, pluck off electron destabilises mass
photons absorbed makes electron further from nucleus, weakens the bond
40kv or higher!!!
resonant cavity sparkplug tunes into the dielectric value of water
its acts as an amplifier= electrical stress is amplified and compressed
oscillates the water atom away from equilibrium
water molecules are stretched and ejected from injector...when they come back...
its flexes as an energy generator and releases a spark that ignites the gas
he says its proved overunity
aser = hydrogen laser ....h2 in vacuum use voltage stress
he says you could use as closed loop system but need expose water mist exhaust
to the sun first
superheated steam comes out of exhaust

another lecture: 1989 nz
304 stainless inert to o2 and h2
resonant charging choke
switching diode in circuit....he pulses the circuit......two charging chokes
chokes energise and create em field and act as an electronic choke
once you terminate the pulse it opens up the charging circuit
allows choke fields to collapse
creates unipolar voltage field across the capacitor whilst restricting amps
pulse frequency tuned into capacitive property of water
tune into dielectric property of water amp draw drops more to lowest value, voltage goes to infinity in theory
freq= from 0 to 10khz  tuned in by circuit pll
charging chokes also double the frequency put 10khz in get 20khz out
1975 he started
second last patent became visible to others what he was doing, he went into pentagon
voltage as potential energy performs work
voltage takes over in a dead short condition of cell
increase number of turns of charging choke increases voltage and output
contaminants stay in the water....needs to be cleaned out if using salt water etc use back pressure to clean
release of gases cleans the tubes
as he increased voltage into tubes, he goes into ionisation of water and plucking off electrons
producing electric energy as byproduct, the circuit has b+ to extract the freed electrons
can use the excess energy to go back into the vic circuit
54:38
laser energy stops atoms going back to stable state after electron plucked off by voltage....epg
Re: research information sharing
« Reply #21, on May 10th, 2014, 06:12 PM »
I found a research paper studying charges induced on water drops and metal surfaces and the mechanisms involved,
pic attached summarises their findings.
It might be useful to precharge water mist before entering the voltage zone or combustion chamber might be of interest to someone.
cant remember the document title or location

securesupplies

Re: research information sharing
« Reply #22, on May 10th, 2014, 09:02 PM »
Thank you nice posts
Re: research information sharing
« Reply #23, on May 10th, 2014, 10:34 PM »
Quote from brettly on April 2nd, 2014, 10:29 PM
not sure on what the point is of building ones own vic coil, when you can buy an ozone generator that uses a vic coil, some even use dual vic coils, also they are cheap from $16usd on ebay.
I've done a test using a 24v acoustic water fogger ( atomiser), the water droplets then flow through a narrow glass tube, which has a cold plasma within it produced by a cheap ebay vic coil style ozone generator. Puting a flame at the exit there is no 'pop' or sign of hydrogen.
There are a few scientific papers showing the generation of hydrogen from water droplets in cold plasma ( also called a non-equalibrium plasma), but the amount produced is not high.
Because I did not find enough hydrogen to explode in a naked flame doesn't mean this system doesn't have merit, there are many variables that may play a role eg.
voltage/frequency/recombination of hydrogen , but is worth playing with as its very similar to myers water spark plug system. One research paper lists approx 20 different reactions that occur in this type of system, its complex.
read patent

brettly

Re: research information sharing
« Reply #24, on May 14th, 2014, 08:50 PM »
thanks daniel
my thoughts were that wound vic type coils already wound in these devices if suitable for water splitting I'm not sure.
A theory I'm proposing for splitting water ( similar to meyer sparkplug)
Since water foggers are cheap and readily available they are a good source for experimenting.
Meyers sparkplug system uses water droplets ( with air and combusted exhaust gas( to lower burn rate to match petrol so timing not need adjusting)
Whether or not he had this working is not known as far as I know.
So basically we have water droplets ( can be supplied by water fogger)  in a pulsing dc field ( 20kv or more)
Water foggers are basically producing clouds same as in the atmosphere but of a particular size distribution.
So any research relating to the charging of water droplets in electric fields is relevant are to research.
There is extensive research into this, probably going back to Lord Kelvn ( william thomson) who developed techniques for measuring the electric field that exists in air ( 80+volts per metre). His water dropper device came after his other devices he invented for measuring the charge in air.
Two of his devices uses a property of water what when a water stream splits into droplets is takes on charge from the surrounding air.
So it may be possible to use a water fogger to charge water droplets at the point where the water stream becomes
droplets ( the water foggers I have use a stream of water exiting from the fogger), so it maybe be possible to charge the water droplets by having a high voltage field surrounding the point where the stream turns into droplets.
( lets assume this is possible to do).
Lets also assume you can achieve this using a modified petrol injector or using the petrol injector port.
Let the exit point of the injector be 20kv or more ( could possibly use a hollowed out sparkplug with inner electrode replaced with hollow needle) and the earth of the motor ( any metal in the motor) to be negative.
So as the piston sucks in the charged water droplets they enter into a vacuum ( low pressure region) i.e. the combustion chamber, any droplets which touch the metal surfaces will give up their charge, so will not be part of the combustion process. The other droplets which retain their charge ( dont hit any metal surfaces and I'm hoping this will be the majority of the droplets) will then be compressed as the piston raises.
There is one research paper that studies how water droplets transfer charge to each other, a spark will occur between water droplets once they are in close enough proximity to each other.
The paper is called "Charge transfer between uncharged water drops in free fall in an electric field" by Sartor and Abbott.
So at some point the charged water droplets will get close enough to each other and transfer their charge, if they all do this at approx the same time, the whole volume of water droplets will 'flash' . What i'm hoping is that this flash of spark from all the charged water droplets would be enough to split the droplets into their components of hydrogen and oxygen.
I was discussing with a friend an alternative method to meyers sparkplug, and what we needed to come up with was some way to 'spark' the whole combustion chamber at one time. This might be one way to do it.
Welcome anyones comments on this theory.