so are we giving up on this or is it still a valid claim? sure would be nice...

~Russ

I agree having something work given the effort one can see gone into it.   At the moment it appears racketed tortion has rachet struck clear to give the magnets passing momemtum.   To what length of time this occurs for remains a question.I agree having something work given the effort one can see gone into it.   At the moment it appears racketed tortion has rachet struck clear to give the magnets passing momemtum.   To what length of time this occurs for remains a question.

Quote from KevinW_EnhancedLiving on April 13th, 2013, 02:24 PM

Keep in mind there are parently 6000 Magnets in this motor. That is a lot to go wrong

First I heard 1200, then 2000, now 6000?  By next year it will consume every magnet on planet earth.  hehe  :P

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on April 14th, 2013, 01:56 AM

so are we giving up on this or is it still a valid claim? sure would be nice...

~Russ

I have two projects going already, not sure three would be a charm.  If I was under no time or financial stress I should would give it a go though.

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Event:2013:Yildiz_Magnet_Motor_Demos

Quote from "Sterling Allan"

Speaking of Mr. Yildiz and the Top 5, his weight there is diminishing for the following reasons:

• He's not as close as I had thought to being ready for production.

• It is difficult to work with him; and this is one of the primary reasons he still is not in the market though he's had this technology developed well enough to bring in funding for at least 15 years. There is some good talent coming forward to help him now, which will take the edge off of this weakness; but it is still a significant drawback.

• The motor will not be easy to replicate. Too many magnets, too easy to not get them just right.

• Though it could be good for an open license, the difficulty of replicating will make it less easy to have it go viral.

[/list]
I'm going to be working on a list of reasons why I think his motor is legitimate. However, it takes a lot more than just a working technology for the technology to be successful in going to market.

And for Sterling's final report:
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Article:_35%2B_Reasons_Why_I_Think_Yildiz%27_Magnet_Motor_Really_Works

Now the trick is to figure out HOW it works so that better implementations can be built.

Now it's your turn.  Go take the poll at:
http://www.99polls.com/poll_292029:1#coms

thx, just checked it out. I support it.
The overunity.com replication or any replications are difficult for as long as we don't have the basic principle. It was never mentioned how the simplest working mechanical arrangement would look like.

It must work. The question is how to really believe it if noone wants to really open source it. That's a pity!
The guys that have a magnet motor just fear they could be killed by secret forces or just don't care but why then post a vid if not care and fear the CIA?

The rexresearch site is the patent, right? - rather a translation to english from german? Why is the patent german if the inventor is turkish? It looks strange. At the end Yildiz, the policeman is from the CIA, they just took the plans and patents of a german they captured? Or has just german relatives, huh? Or lived in Germany until the police came and said, dude, what do you think - work for us and distract the free energy community for us (as so many others as it seems)?
wild speculations of course - but why this non-open-sourcing - it's much more dangerous to not make it open source because the more people know of it the safer you are and there are no money problems as you have power for free and enough supporters and fans that will donate immediately once they're not fooled (as I tend to say 90% of the free energy claims with what you have to pay attention for).

A video is nothing in these times. A real live assembly video or live real world disassembly and presentation and giving power to others for free is what will not only save your life but even let the people see that it really works and how it works (in addition to a full elaborated non-missing basic principle schematic).

Welcome to the forum jon.

Right on!  My sentiments exactly.

If I could do it, I would build small prototypes in my garage, lots of them and load cheap USB sticks packed with every detail of how the thing works and how you make it.  Then get 20 or so science teachers from the local high schools and colleges to take them into the schools and put them on display, running of course.  At the same time I would post all the information to every forum I could get an account on.  Plus, I would ship functioning units with USB sticks all over the globe.

It would make one he11 of mess for the sweeper teams to clean up after.  Once the genie is out of the bottle, it's game over for the suppressors.  The only thing they could do then is to start another World War; only this time it would be difficult for people to show up once they know it's all a big hoax.  Yes, do that and you would see the whole upper echelon running for cover like cock roaches.  Use the interdependency They have created against Them.  Brings a whole new meaning to "going viral".

One thing being overlooked is Patents are not worth a pinch unless you have thousands of dollars to enforce it,  Patent enforcement is a civil matter nothing else . A Patent ceases to exist to be if a 15% change occurs in a new design of the same thing.  In todays world one designs, makes, manufactures, then goes like hell to sell before somebody else copies or near copies. The good thing about public debut of a product is nobody else can Patent as the design is in the public domain.

nice to be here. just convincing how you guys seek the essential points in the - ähm - detailed design plans we are given all the time. it's just as impossible to get the claims reverse engineered as it is to come to a really working idea. never the less it gets us nearer (why do I feel so bad saying this -- know of the frog who just jumps half as far each following jump? will never get where he wanted to ... pita ... feeling bad).


haha, that's the ultimate way to go. :) it's a little bad that now its generally known what your plan is => you need a new plan now.. haha, we must be failing ...

Anyway I think I will post some detailsof a magnet motor that simply must work - okay how many time did I think the same? Mostly the load was the problem. A ha, what is with that genious Leonardo Da Vinci motor that evolved from this wise greek? After that I decided that I've found my masters (and all my prototypes just looked like potatoes in comparison to sun flowers from that on). I saw a video of it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRgXnUwMTVQ&list=UUZIo30BaUSTckK2ppYV_DXw.

If we consider the friction in the bearings as there exists no ideal solution for that (even magnetic bearings I think spark tiny losses or not?) - and then consider that it's nevertheless rotating then at last it must be possible to reduce friction, e.g. by using permanent magnet bearings (ha magnetism the key here again, just missing the resonance haha:), and then we have it: some spare power to drive a small brushed DC motor to charge our batteries.

Even ufo stories look just so unbelievable because the authorities don't tell that german nazis had apparently some flying - and all the german-scientist-"engager" subsequently too after the war (Canadia for example).
It's just the question of how much power this ufo consumes. And here we are again at our (for us, not the video posters of course) so difficult to solve problem - energy.

Ah, by the way, have thought of a new wind turbine: http://www.energyscienceforum.com/alternative-energy-general/820-wind-ignited-gravity-center-mass-shift-turbine.html#post7508
What do ya think? It's a wind driven center of gravity shift air lift system. Have to create an animation some time.


Edit:
@DaSEnergy: You're right with the patents, why that bureaucracy? Archimedes surely not dealt a lot with that, I guess! Or did they have something like this in ancient times too?

See at 6:50 where he disassembles the motor. Ignore the name!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epLOEaoPMFU

Quote from KevinW_EnhancedLiving on April 23rd, 2013, 06:28 AM

See at 6:50 where he disassembles the motor. Ignore the name!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epLOEaoPMFU

Sterling Allan insists there are no batteries inside this device.  All forces must then be coming strictly from magnets arranged in such a way to provide the motive force.  My hunch is the magnets are arranged in a helix or vortex that overcomes the typical cogging of a symmetrical arrangement.  This asymmetry is key, so that no matter where the rotor is positioned, it is continuously out of balance with the stator forces causing it to want to rotate--pull always stronger than push or vice versa.

We just need to wrap our heads around how to duplicate this arrangement and we'd be well on our way to having these things running in our garage.

@DaSEnergy: You're right with the patents, why that bureaucracy? Archimedes surely not dealt a lot with that, I guess! Or did they have something like this in ancient times too?[/quote]That had a similiar which was theft of another mans property.  It was enforced by long silver things with sharp edges.

I believe if there are loose components in the stator (paradox, huh?) then this willl work. In general two independant forces/fields will make us successful. I wish I could evaluate this theory - we need to rebuild the principle. Not the sophisticated one, just the basic 'arrangement'.
I mean it's not about this motor in special. If it's not really working, no problem. It just matters that we figure our own working device out.
Or at least try as many ideas as possible such that we don't miss any ... as a magnet motor would have so much potential, I can think of thousands of appliances of that one - from spaceships to within robots what could make them really useful and universal. Wow, just could go on dreaming - oh, hope it'll not stay a dream this one.

If this principle worked we could even make a lot of Fantasy stories a bit more possible.
We have the choice, waiting for someone to give detailed plans or checking out principles of devices that have not been proven wrong yet. I will create a simulation some weeks as soon as I get more time.

Ah, btw sometimes comments here in the forum disappear if you edit it and then click on the "no longer wants to wait for redirect" button. haha, really scary. :D

For a magnetic motor why does it have to be wound up? That bits missing in everything written so far!

Quote from DaS Energy on April 26th, 2013, 08:37 AM

For a magnetic motor why does it have to be wound up? That bits missing in everything written so far!

Not sure what you mean by "wound up".  Do you mean started?  If so, Yildiz's larger motor doesn't need to be started.  All he does is release the brake and away it goes.

So it see Yildiz is entertaining manufacturing licenses:
http://pesn.com/2013/04/25/9602302_Yildiz-entertaining-manufacturing-licensees---BUT/

I went ahead and applied for one--doubt very highly I will get any response or if do I'd probably need to be Donald Trump to pay for it.  We shall see...

Hmm a 5% royalty sounds cheap.  Most companies mark up subcontractors 15%.  Will be interesting to see if anything comes of it.


Nate

Hello Dog -One watch his earlier video, note rachet spring wound. Other times he has pre wound.  When the spring unwinds there not be enough enertia left for magnets to pass each other. One can put the brake on by hanging on to a fan blade.

I would suspect based on the positioning/alignment of the magnets, you could build two main types of magnet motors:  One that runs at very high speed and needs to be started.  Or a second type that runs at lower RPM and is able to start by itself.

I really want to get the complete specifications and understand how it works.  I'm quite certain acquiring all the parts to build one of these units would be pretty expensive, so if I'm going to go that far, I want to be sure what I build will actually run.

Hope you are accepted. As this is the industrial license, it should be for companies only! (Sorry this message turns out quite longish.)
Still what makes me nervous is that Sterling not only is not really convinced but also did not respond to a message I sent to him asking about raising funds for ruling out Yildiz's doubts because of the missing international patent. We could gather money for the intern. patent and then there would be no more obstacle - would be of course. This fund raising is always critical as we can not be sure that we get quid pro quo (if that's the correct term for 'counterpower'?). Their website http://bsmhturk.com says they have an international patent? Others say, time is gone where the device can be patented? They have the international patent since 2009.
@Doug-One:
The two kinds of motor sound quite reasonable if the spacing determines speed (rpm). If the strength of the magnets determines the speed alone the starting issue can be ruled out. A startup only should be necessary if the spacing is too far (in a magnetic relation this is achieved far quicker than wished, it [the B-field] falls quite quickly with increasing distance).

For me there still exist three basic principles of (permanent!) magnet motor:
[list=1]

• Permanent magnets only + proper shielding.

• Independant fields (one for keeping up the unbalance of system in relation to the other field).

• Magnetic field harvester (Earth circumference travelling fields - resulting in eddy currents, vortex related). - huh, quite complicated this one!

[/list]

Looking forward to see results. In principle what I saw of the Yildiz motor it relates to case 2. because of the folllowing:

• Moving parts in the stator.

• Magnets arranged in a kind of V-rail/Calloway pattern.

[/list]

Both first kinds of permanent magnet motor mentioned in the first listing need at least the following to work:
[list=1]

• Precondition shielding type: Complete directional (!) shielding is possible.

• Precondition for 2-independant-fields type: The non-permanent magnet field has to exist already. (best candidate then: gravity). The fields must not influence each other!

[/list]

This is my research state. I hope you can investigate the Yildiz motor under this statements too? Perhaps it's really fitting in one of the categories? Or is a mix? Perhaps only a mix is working? Many questions remain ...

I'm interested in this open license too. Unfortunately this is what stops my enthusiasm:

(click to show/hide)

• It was stated in comments to the Yildiz magnet motor poll of PESN that Yildiz should have no financial problems as energy is free for him since 15 years. (even though it could turn out complicated to sell it as companies as I know them want to know where the energy comes from and even install extra electronic to keep their transmission line safe.)

• Quote from "Finish guy PESN comment"

  An invention possessed solely by its inventor, without influence of traders and funders, usually has the best changes to become known, understood and utilized by the public - if the inventor is willing to make it widely known."

• Quote from "Saad PESN comment"

  Yildiz should see the Sirius documentary to understand the stake !

The world is ruled by so powerful people that no body can put a free energy device on the market if they don't want to. And history has proven that fact.
free energy inventors can not win face to face battle against big oil companies. Because it's a 10 trillions dollars market per year !!! Hole countries has been destroyed for less then that.

The only way to get around this is viruses strategy :
Step 1 Gain momentum
1-1- To have a small (even tiny) duplicable open source device and go viral on the net.
1-2- help duplicators build it and share it, and gain momentum
Step 2 Go public

2-2- Challenge academical physicists and scientist
2-3- Go public
Step 3 Get the pay back
3-3- Licence for manufacturing[/quote]

• Quote from "Norman PESN comment"

  "The most important thing right now is to prove that it DOES work."

Tell me, when he said that the magnets inside the motor broke and that he couldn't clean the machine cause it would take too long, did you even take a look at which magnets broke and where they broke from?

They were squared/rectangular pieces of magnets (as shown in your pictures and videos) which belong to 2 stators that are mounted on the most external enclosure of the motor.

This encloser and its stators are already been proven to be easily extracted, he already done it in many other videos. So why did he say he couldn't do it in geneva?

The motor consists of 2 main stators and 1 main rotor in the center. the rotor and the outer casing stator that holds an aligment of cilyndrical magnets are isolated from the outer most "pizza pieces" stators (as you can very well see in the videos of his disassembled motor, a yellowish/white plastic covers the main rotor and stator) so no magnets could have been broken from the outer stator on the first place.[/quote]

• The harsh opposing forces from the http://overunity.com  forum. Edit: Updated the link directly to the thread! (recently giant activity 20+ pages in 1 month).
  

Okay, if you ask me, this overunity thread is a very interesting topic. It's a real though virtual fight.

One phoned and wrote to University staff of Delft and Eindhoven to get an answer: "The university does not support the Yildiz motor."
See here:

Quote from "accused as petroleum company servant"

STERLING: Only a few calls were enough, and did not need to do this whole charade!!

- - - - - - - - - - - -  YOU SHOULD FELL ASHAMED - - - - - - - - - - - -

In case of any doubt, I give you the list of professor that  I have spoken about the Yildiz´s motor:

(note that: All they are AWARDS professors & SCIENTISTS (please, they deserve a lot of respect from us. Do Not Disturb!!!)

TU Delft professors:

1) Roy Meijer
2) Linda Gaffel
3) Chris Hellinga
4) Michel van Baal
5) Ineke Boneschansker
6) Johanna Myrzik Edit by J.Ardaron: Anomaly. This one definitely working at University of Dortmund as pointed out by J.L.Duarte. (see quoted answer of DomiChi)
7) Ilona van der Wenden,


In the TU Eindhoven

1) Wil Kling (Chief of investigations)

At the first time, I call by telephone "each one" to ask about the Yildiz´s DEMOS in his own univesities.

All responded the same thing: is a scam, is a trick, is a fake, etc

I think it's in bad taste, but in case of any doubt, I give you a print sceen of one answer from TU Delft about Yildiz.

I have 8 (eight) mails more of each one.

To prevent the spam, the mail is hidden in light blue.

- - - - - -- - - - - STERLING YOU SHOULD FELL ASHAMED - - - - - - - - - -

TU DELFT MAIL 6.jpg

* TU DELFT MAIL 6.jpg (139.59 kB, 855x592 - viewed 178 times.)

This is a (much too personal and warlike) hard fight and something is wrong there, isn't it? On one side there are proven experts, some even have worked with Sterling D. Allen. One to mention is TinselKoala who was involved in clarifying with Steorn - by rebuilding one complete (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgvFHejoQEk). There are  also rather new to the forum and shadowy guys. Overall these also did show many constructive messages. (so not everything is against them, they just want to sace investors of wasting money -- as you already have seen on Sterling's poll about Yildiz motor)

The other guy is an Electrician or Industry consultant or mixed - supported by profiliti (a south african). TinselKoala seems quite neutral ... not sure about that.
Anyway, the electrician reacts with contacting Jorge Duarte directly:

Quote from "DomiChi"

Dear Dominique,
Someone is spreading misinformation (I think his pseudoname is Cazador Truchos).
Prof. Kling from TU Eindhoven I know personally, and he will never say it is a scam before talking to me.
Prof. Myrzik works at Dortmund, not in Delft, and so on.
As usual, a guy with a big ego is looking for sensation.
Regards,
-jorge

Perhaps the disclosure of the industrial license is a reaction to this vanishing reputation of Mr. Yildiz? They even want to put him in jail and speak openly about that.

I strongly hope that Yildiz magnet motor is not a scam and that he reacts by finally giving the open license now too - why the industrial first?? It's getting quite dangerous ...

As a reference where this comes from: http://www.overunity.com/8870/muammer-yildiz-magnet-motor/420/#.UXw6wkpaFu0 (the upper quote was a page earlier)

Keep in mind this simple fact that I believe was once uttered by Joseph Stalin:

Educational Institutions serve two main purposes:
  1.  To teach students what the establishment wants them to know
  2.  To ensure students DO NOT learn what the establishment does not want them to know

Given this basic premise, can you imagine any University validating Yildiz's Magnet Motor?  It would be institutional suicide to do so.  A similar thing happened with Jon Able when he used scholastic research facilities to replicate the Stan Meyer WFC.  If I had the time to hunt down all the bright minded individuals this has probably happened to, I could write a book on it.

I tend to think the Yildiz motor does indeed work, but not because I trust him.  I think it works because I do trust Sterling and he saw it work, heard inside information about it and is not the type of man to lie about it.  He and his family took a risk even going to Geneva--pretty sure he bought the tickets before the fundraiser had covered his expenses.  There is nothing in this for Sterling except to be banished doing what it is he loves to do.  So yes, I believe there is something there.

I have also studied the patents and Marco Rodin's vortex math enough to see the connection.  And I still believe permanent magnets contain or redirect energy even though by current standards I cannot prove this gut instinct.  I'm told magnets cannot perform work, only provide force.  Well then, put them in motion.  Which is what it appears Yildiz has done.

There are two things I can think of that would force me to give-up on this:
  1.  Sterling comes out and says he was wrong (which has done many times before)
  2.  I find a solid-state solution that works much better than a mechanical device.

Right. Better not forget that.

Sterling is suppressed. Isn't M.Yildiz paying harsh attention if Sterling only approaches his motor? I remember having it seen in several videos. He is not allowed to do all the tests the overunity.com-guys want him to conduct.

Marko Rodins math? Do you have some good link for the math, just finding the discussion links (okay employed ecosia.com :)). Work is the integral over force. The force does the work. Who told you that?

Is it possible to use latex in this forum? Probably not,, then is it possible to include a script that is able to render latex? What about that one, successor of jsMath: http://www.mathjax.org/

The motion is done in the stator in controverse to my thinking to best put them [the movable parts] in the rotor. I'm convinced he uses or originally intended to use gravity as a biasing field, i.e. to keep up an unbalance in the magnetic field - resulting in perpetual rotation (and energy is not coming from nowhere! it's from gravity - not zero-point especially in this case). It's just my hypothesis. Fitting in category two.

For me there still exist three basic principles of (permanent!) magnet motor:

Quote from J.R.I.B.-W.

[list=1]

• Permanent magnets only + proper shielding.

• Independant fields (one for keeping up the unbalance of system in relation to the other field).

• Magnetic field harvester (Earth circumference travelling fields - resulting in eddy currents, vortex related). - huh, quite complicated this one.

Vortex is interesting as it introduces a chain reaction (I have to become more precise if I get around it) - it's needing a starter motor at least, a magnet motor would be brilliant for that one too. would love to test this all in reality if I only had the chance but semester is in full progress. I will have to wait for the end of the summer term. :/

Definitely, a permanent magnet motor would lead to the unavailability of magnets. I'm just afraid of that. Other effects are the demolition of the energy sector. Perhaps even lead to chaos. Very serious problems! But the guys at this overunity.com forum just prefer speaking of each other in war rhetoric. Some accusing French in general to be running away like in every war?? Don't know Napoleon Bonaparte it seems. (and I say this as of nation of the luckily just former archenemy) The french guy accusing the others as pugs. How on earth could it get that far? It's horrible to see that ... Free energy community taking itself apart, that's not constructive criticism. That does not get us anyway. Btw moderation as demanded by DomiChi also is no solution, it would distort everything! Understanding of the comments would become (even more) impossible.

Luckily at the end of the thread they go on discussing more technically - DomiChi even stating he is progressing in his all-magnet-device using the calloway principle - a promising concept if you ask me. What do you think about that one?

Quote from jonardaron on April 27th, 2013, 06:25 PM

Right. Better not forget that.

Sterling is suppressed. Isn't M.Yildiz paying harsh attention if Sterling only approaches his motor? I remember having it seen in several videos. He is not allowed to do all the tests the overunity.com-guys want him to conduct.

Yildiz has his own motivation for what he is doing.  What that is exactly I do not know.  He may have actually stolen the concept from someone else--again I do not know how he came about the things that he has.

What I do know is Yildiz is very difficult to work with if he does not know and trust you.

Could his Magnetic Motor be fake...?   That is still an open question--for him to know and us to find out.

Quote from jonardaron on April 27th, 2013, 06:25 PM

Marko Rodins math? Do you have some good link for the math, just finding the discussion links (okay employed ecosia.com :)).

I pulled down a large collection of YouTube videos where he explains it to a small group.  There are 44 cuts in total.  Start with:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K93dL65Q724

Quote from jonardaron on April 27th, 2013, 06:25 PM

Work is the integral over force. The force does the work. Who told you that?

The idea that Force = Mass x Acceleration implies that you need a constantly changing displacement since Acceleration is the integral of Velocity which is the integral of Distance.  So if you take a unit of power like Foot-Pounds per Minute, you can see the force cannot be continuously re-applied in the exact same coordinates.  It must be progressively moved to new coordinates in order to not zero itself out.  A stationary permanent magnet must then be continuously relocated in order to generate power that is used to do work (Energy per Time interval).
http://www.physicsclassroom.com/Class/energy/u5l1a.cfm

So as long as the permanent magnet sits stationary even though it may be holding 1,000,000 tons of material against the force of gravity, it is still said to do no work and has no power.  Not my definition BTW, because from a human standpoint, we can exert a lot of energy holding an object stationary and to me that is still work.  So I tend to disagree with the physicists on that one.  In that last example, I see a permanent magnet doing the exact same function.  So my take on it all is if a person can exert energy holding an object stationary, then maybe a permanent magnet is also exerting energy doing the same function.  And where does that energy come from and why doesn't it get tired like a person and give out?  There is clearly something going on that hasn't been well explained to my satisfaction.

Quote from jonardaron on April 27th, 2013, 06:25 PM

Is it possible to use latex in this forum? Probably not,, then is it possible to include a script that is able to render latex? What about that one, successor of jsMath: http://www.mathjax.org/

This forum does support PHP.  You may want to fiddle with the information here and see what you can come up with.  I haven't really dedicated the time to see what all is possible.  My bad.
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/7870
http://www.phpkode.com/scripts/item/equation/

Quote from jonardaron on April 27th, 2013, 06:25 PM

The motion is done in the stator in controverse to my thinking to best put them [the movable parts] in the rotor. I'm convinced he uses or originally intended to use gravity as a biasing field, i.e. to keep up an unbalance in the magnetic field - resulting in perpetual rotation (and energy is not coming from nowhere! it's from gravity - not zero-point especially in this case). It's just my hypothesis. Fitting in category two.

From what I noticed, the Yildiz motor has a cylindrical rotor, an inner stater and an outer stater.  My suspicion is the two staters are mated in such a way to create the imbalance--therefore the motor is self starting.

On the gravity side...   I believe magnetic force and gravitational force is inter-related, but I hadn't thought about how gravity might influence the Yildiz motor.  Glad you mentioned that and I'll have to do more thinking about it.

Quote from jonardaron on April 27th, 2013, 06:25 PM

For me there still exist three basic principles of (permanent!) magnet motor:

Quote from J.R.I.B.-W.

[list=1]

• Permanent magnets only + proper shielding.

• Independant fields (one for keeping up the unbalance of system in relation to the other field).

• Magnetic field harvester (Earth circumference travelling fields - resulting in eddy currents, vortex related). - huh, quite complicated this one.

A lot to learn still.  Those three items are likely only the short list, bet there is even more to this puzzle.

Quote from jonardaron on April 27th, 2013, 06:25 PM

Vortex is interesting as it introduces a chain reaction (I have to become more precise if I get around it) - it's needing a starter motor at least, a magnet motor would be brilliant for that one too. would love to test this all in reality if I only had the chance but semester is in full progress. I will have to wait for the end of the summer term. :/

Do what you need to, but fill your head with concepts and ideas and let your subconscious chew on it for a while; after your Summer term, you'll be ready to do some serious exploration.

Quote from jonardaron on April 27th, 2013, 06:25 PM

Definitely, a permanent magnet motor would lead to the unavailability of magnets. I'm just afraid of that. Other effects are the demolition of the energy sector. Perhaps even lead to chaos. Very serious problems!

Not worried there.  I can make my own magnets if necessary.  There is enough information out there as to how to anneal metal, magnetize it and harden it so the magnetic structure becomes crystallized permanently.  Neo magnets are great, but I can settle for less if I know how to build the motor.

Quote from jonardaron on April 27th, 2013, 06:25 PM

But the guys at this overunity.com forum just prefer speaking of each other in war rhetoric. Some accusing French in general to be running away like in every war?? Don't know Napoleon Bonaparte it seems. (and I say this as of nation of the luckily just former archenemy) The french guy accusing the others as pugs. How on earth could it get that far? It's horrible to see that ... Free energy community taking itself apart, that's not constructive criticism. That does not get us anyway. Btw moderation as demanded by DomiChi also is no solution, it would distort everything! Understanding of the comments would become (even more) impossible.

We are not going to allow that behavior here.  If anyone chooses to become disruptive they will be shown the door.  It's not helpful, not necessary and needs to find a new home.  We have already lost a few smart people but have drawn our line in the sand.  Here at OpenSource Energy, we are going to behave like adults, learn the technology and attempt to develop real-world solutions.  If need be, Russ will pull the plug on this whole show and start something new by invitation only.  We simply don't have time to screw around with childish behavior.  I for one am too old to waste a single moment--weeks shoot by like hours these days.  I can see the end is near and want to make the most of every second I have left.

Quote from jonardaron on April 27th, 2013, 06:25 PM

Luckily at the end of the thread they go on discussing more technically - DomiChi even stating he is progressing in his all-magnet-device using the calloway principle - a promising concept if you ask me. What do you think about that one?

I have not heard about the "Calloway Prinicple" at all, please do enlighten us.

Absolutely! Sorry about missing the distance in the equation.

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http://www.physicsclassroom.com/Class/energy/u5l1a.cfm

Say this page talks about constant speed in the exercises - am I wrong assuming a resulting force in either direction will always result in a acceleration because of F = m * a, as you also stated. Constant speed definitely only occurs after the with speed increasing friction (counter)forces get big enough to eliminate further acceleration!

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The idea that Force = Mass x Acceleration implies that you need a constantly changing displacement since Acceleration is the integral derivative of Velocity which is the integral derivative of Distance. So if you take a unit of power like Foot-Pounds per Minute, you can see the force cannot be continuously re-applied in the exact same coordinates. It must be progressively moved to new coordinates in order to not zero itself out. A stationary permanent magnet must then be continuously relocated in order to generate power that is used to do work (Energy per Time interval).

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So as long as the permanent magnet sits stationary even though it may be holding 1,000,000 tons of material against the force of gravity, it is still said to do no work and has no power. Not my definition BTW, because from a human standpoint, we can exert a lot of energy holding an object stationary and to me that is still work. So I tend to disagree with the physicists on that one. In that last example, I see a permanent magnet doing the exact same function. So my take on it all is if a person can exert energy holding an object stationary, then maybe a permanent magnet is also exerting energy doing the same function. And where does that energy come from and why doesn't it get tired like a person and give out? There is clearly something going on that hasn't been well explained to my satisfaction.

Yes, I also think there is a problem as seen with the magnet lifting and holding a weight example you mentioned. If  a magnet really holds 5 pounds there is work done - against gravity in this case. It just nullifies because gravity also does work, hence trying to accelerate the magnet held load in the opposite direction. Acceleration in one and the opposite direction nullifies but you still have to power the coil magnet holding the rock if it shall not fall to earth (the same must apply for permanent magnet, only that the (Lorentz) force comes of the field, itself produced by the intrinsic spin of the electrons at a quantuum mechanics layer - alternatively from current flowing around the magnet - that's how they explain it in the classical model).
In our example we repel a rock with a permanent magnet, saving it from the influence of gravity. Hence we counteract gravity. Gravity is doing the work for us here. As we have to do the work if we want to lift the rock against graavity.

As forces nullify each other => equilibrium, we don't have a net/resulting force left => no overall work. But individually seen there are two parties trying to get the reign of the rock - they send huge forces as envoy.

Depending on how strong the magnet is and how big the gravitational force (F = m * g) depending on mass of the rock is, the distance between the rock and the below placed rock-holding permanent magnet will be. Hence gravity is doing the work to lift the rock to a higher level in the magnetic field potential (higher here with repelling magnet means nearer to the magnet).
Luckily it's the same gravity assist manoevres with a spacecraft - you take a tiny bit of the energy of the potential energy (analogously magnetic field potential energy of the magnetically repelled object - held by the permanent magnet).

It often gets mixed up with pure gravitational lifting and sinking of weights (gravity only). Of course one has to lift a sinking gravitational weight again at same point. (Possible gains per resonance we leave out for the following consideration.) But we have to lift against gravity only. And what if you use gravity to create unbalance of weights against an other fields? Gravity is there anyway. This is a chance that does not claim OU and still produces energy from magnetic and gravitational field - no breaking of physical laws here!


Ha, now I myself mixed up the usual understanding of "work" and physical "work" (see drawing). In a physical way no work is done if you try to press the stem of a tree or a tesla apparatus into rocky earth - no matter how much energy this unsuccessful manoeuvre costs you.
If you instead pull the Tesla transmitting device a bit to the side what is much easier, here you have it - work is done. It's rellay strange to get around this. I wonder if these fields of gravity really depend on charge (?) and mass only and if these charges or masses will get less by time and forces working (or trying to do work) upon??
[attachment=3676]

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[...] learn the technology and attempt to develop real-world solutions

Great! Absolutely what we need. Once we have the magnet motor ready (IF we ever get detailed plans of the so called thousand 'claimers' or make it around succeeding in our own), once that done, we should harden our survival skills - making own magnets included. Will you lead the magnet excursion in the ferrite mountains?  omg

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I have not heard about the "Calloway Prinicple" at all, please do enlighten us.

Me myself still am just at the beginning of exploring that principle but it looks so awesome if that only can be true!! http://www.fdp.nu/triangle/default.asp (link provided by DomiChi from overunity.com). Or that could also help us - magnetic launch ramp for marbles.

Independent of the Yildiz motor it is a very promising approach if this really is true and the let's call them driving magnets not have to be moved that there results this great acceleration.

What just makes me more critical of the youtube videos is that even this museum: youtube veproject1 channel  seems to aid for demonstration purposes!! I realised that as I researched Paul Scheerbart and he himself laughed about himself being so foolish about thinking this worked (he gave his plans to mechanics and the patent council even though it never worked -- another reason why to be careful with patents of all our well-known overunity-claimers! It's sad that in all those years there still is NO working reproducable open source 'ou'- or rather external-energy-device. Please tell me if I'm wrong!).

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A lot to learn still. Those three items are likely only the short list, bet there is even more to this puzzle.

Never ending story it seems ...
(even though we have not even one of this ones working yet -- science is definitely rocket science, it's much more complicate than often seen, especially when it's getting non-linear as magnetics, fields, quantuum, ..  and Tesla system in special (this is why electronic circuits involving Tesla are misunderstood, usually those circuits are linear - with Tesla there is a non-linear component!) - hence another reason why even scientists loose overview so often -- see that every day at university -- complexity is killing us sometime. so let's hope we can engineer a working unit convincing with simplicity - replicable - open source) <-- you don't have to answer all my statements in this post, really, I'll not be angry. it must be confusing