Home Power Generation

Ravenous Emu

Home Power Generation
« on October 17th, 2012, 09:00 PM »
Here is a very simple idea/concept for some one to try and implement.

What if...
I had a Geothermal Heat Pump / Ground Source Heat Pump...
That...
was hooked up to a Low Temperature Differential (LTD) Stirling Engine...
That...
was hooked up to an electrical generator?

Let me know what you guys think.

My Reasoning
1) Under the ground there is ,typically, a constant temperature.
2) Above the ground it's usually warmer/cooler than under ground (depends on time of year.)
3) Stirling Engines operate using temperature differences
4) Hook up an electrical generator to the Stirling Engine.

symanuk

RE: Home Power Generation
« Reply #1, on October 18th, 2012, 02:27 AM »
Good plan - why not set up a couple of mirrors to track the sun and heat the ground with concentrated reflection, ramp up the temperature differential a bit more for a small amount of energy used positioning the mirrors.

Lynx

RE: Home Power Generation
« Reply #2, on October 18th, 2012, 01:09 PM »
As heat pumps already are over unity, I'm curious of why no one has let the heat derived from the pump drive some
engine, why not a Sterling engine then, which in turn drives an alternator, which in turn then powers the heat pump?
Sure, during winter, and so on, when the COP (Coefficient of Performance) isn't so big, or even less than 1, well then
there's nothing to be gained from all this.
However, as soon as the COP is greater than 1, then all the "extra" energy derived from the process would be a pure
gain, providing free heat (or electricity) to your home :cool:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_pump

Ravenous Emu

RE: Home Power Generation
« Reply #3, on October 18th, 2012, 09:36 PM »Last edited on October 18th, 2012, 09:50 PM by Ravenous Emu
Quote from symanuk on October 18th, 2012, 02:27 AM
Good plan - why not set up a couple of mirrors to track the sun and heat the ground with concentrated reflection, ramp up the temperature differential a bit more for a small amount of energy used positioning the mirrors.
I like the thought.  I want to have it run 24/7.  That's why I thought underground.  If I went and used mirrors to track the sun... I'd do something like this instead. :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzhzeA4VRSc&feature=related
Quote from Lynx on October 18th, 2012, 01:09 PM
As heat pumps already are over unity
I'm trying to understand... How is a Heat Pump "Over Unity"? :huh:
There are ways to make it more "Efficient" but I wouldn't go so far as to claim Over Unity.

What I was thinking... when you get the Stirling engine to power the generator/alternator, tap whatever you need to keep the Heat Pump running and the rest is useful for what ever you need.

This scenario isn't "Over Unity".  However, it uses a portion of the electricity to keep it self running.  Much like an engine runs on it's own after you start it.

Lynx

RE: Home Power Generation
« Reply #4, on October 20th, 2012, 05:41 AM »
Quote from Ravenous Emu on October 18th, 2012, 09:36 PM
Quote from Lynx on October 18th, 2012, 01:09 PM
As heat pumps already are over unity
I'm trying to understand... How is a Heat Pump "Over Unity"? :huh:
There are ways to make it more "Efficient" but I wouldn't go so far as to claim Over Unity.

What I was thinking... when you get the Stirling engine to power the generator/alternator, tap whatever you need to keep the Heat Pump running and the rest is useful for what ever you need.

This scenario isn't "Over Unity".  However, it uses a portion of the electricity to keep it self running.  Much like an engine runs on it's own after you start it.
You're quite right, it's not over unity per se, as it takes energy already stored in
for example the ground by using the thermodynamic heat pump cycle,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_pump_and_refrigeration_cycle
However, facts remain, which is that if your heat pump setup has an overall
coefficient of performance of let's say 3, which isn't at all unusual, that then in
turn means that for every KW of electric power you put in to the system you get
3 KW of heat out of the process, which is why I call it over unity, which it really
isn't, as it merely "steals" the energy already stored in the ground.
I just read about the relatively low efficiency grade of the Sterling engine when
it comes to letting it power an alternator for example, it was in the range of 20%
or even less.
I'm more curious as to what a Tesla bladeless turbine engine could have to offer
if you were to let the upstream of the refrigerant pass through the Tesla engine
just before it comes back to the heat exchanger in your heat pump.
If the heat pump takes let's for arguments sake say 1 KW of electric power to
operate and that the COP is 3 on a good day, that then means that you'd get
3 KW of heat out of your heat pump system to heat up your water, home, etc.
If you then were to put a Tesla turbine engine the way I just described, then
as such an engine has anything up to 90% of effiecency grade and an alternator
has about say 90% effiecency grade you would take away some 1.3 KW of heat
coming up from the ground in order to get 1 KW of electric effect out from the
alternator to power the heat pump.
The rest 1.7 KW could then be used to heat up your water etc at virtually no cost
at all except for maintenance costs of the heat pump system itself.

DaS Energy

RE: Home Power Generation
« Reply #5, on November 17th, 2012, 08:25 PM »Last edited on November 17th, 2012, 08:31 PM by DaS Energy
Hello Ravenous Emu,

That which you speak we have made many version of all posted Open Technology.

All are self contained only heat required.

The heat need so low ambient temperature is enough to activate.

The system works on making itself cold as opposed to hot. The hot may be that surrounding or gathered to a higher temperature.

All may be made using off the shelf parts.

Turbine may be car water pump to other form of circular pump.

The remainder is pipe attachment.

The driver we have concentrated on is Carbon Dioxided due to its high expansion curve once past 50*C and that it still has enough expansion force at minus 10*C to produce electricity.

Carbon Dioxide a natural refrigerant R744 is a gas that for all purposes except it be a gas that not behave like a gas but so odd that when heated enough it turns to Dry-Ice, which is a boon for cooling.

Power calculations are one litre flow per second at 9 bar pressure produces 720 watts increasing by pressure or volume per second.

One expample and the easiest to make as it only involves joining things.

http://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee397/DaSEnergy/RADIANTPUMP.png

Cheers Peter


FaradayEZ

RE: Home Power Generation
« Reply #6, on November 22nd, 2012, 10:13 AM »
Quote from Lynx on October 20th, 2012, 05:41 AM
Quote from Ravenous Emu on October 18th, 2012, 09:36 PM
Quote from Lynx on October 18th, 2012, 01:09 PM
As heat pumps already are over unity
I'm trying to understand... How is a Heat Pump "Over Unity"? :huh:
There are ways to make it more "Efficient" but I wouldn't go so far as to claim Over Unity.

What I was thinking... when you get the Stirling engine to power the generator/alternator, tap whatever you need to keep the Heat Pump running and the rest is useful for what ever you need.

This scenario isn't "Over Unity".  However, it uses a portion of the electricity to keep it self running.  Much like an engine runs on it's own after you start it.
You're quite right, it's not over unity per se, as it takes energy already stored in
for example the ground by using the thermodynamic heat pump cycle,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_pump_and_refrigeration_cycle
However, facts remain, which is that if your heat pump setup has an overall
coefficient of performance of let's say 3, which isn't at all unusual, that then in
turn means that for every KW of electric power you put in to the system you get
3 KW of heat out of the process, which is why I call it over unity, which it really
isn't, as it merely "steals" the energy already stored in the ground.
I just read about the relatively low efficiency grade of the Sterling engine when
it comes to letting it power an alternator for example, it was in the range of 20%
or even less.
I'm more curious as to what a Tesla bladeless turbine engine could have to offer
if you were to let the upstream of the refrigerant pass through the Tesla engine
just before it comes back to the heat exchanger in your heat pump.
If the heat pump takes let's for arguments sake say 1 KW of electric power to
operate and that the COP is 3 on a good day, that then means that you'd get
3 KW of heat out of your heat pump system to heat up your water, home, etc.
If you then were to put a Tesla turbine engine the way I just described, then
as such an engine has anything up to 90% of effiecency grade and an alternator
has about say 90% effiecency grade you would take away some 1.3 KW of heat
coming up from the ground in order to get 1 KW of electric effect out from the
alternator to power the heat pump.
The rest 1.7 KW could then be used to heat up your water etc at virtually no cost
at all except for maintenance costs of the heat pump system itself.
I'm wandering of you place the tesla device there, then the engine of the pump has to work for the energy gained by that tesla device. So your pump needs to work harder?



DaS Energy

RE: Home Power Generation
« Reply #7, on November 23rd, 2012, 01:29 AM »Last edited on November 23rd, 2012, 01:32 AM by DaS Energy
Hello FaradayEz

To reply to your question of Heat Pump/Engine overunity.

To my knowledge it be correct to say such device not exist in commerce.

Developed Heat- Engine for some time have abandoned Steam for natural gasses which are gas at the start and highly excitable to heat.

Heat source increases one litre water temperature 50*C  to 100*C in one second.
This heat passes to Carbon Dioxide- R744 and in so doing creates a gas pressure differential of 200 bar to 7,000 bar -6,880 bar driver force.

Lower grade line pipe has full pressure handling capacity.

82% efficient turbine generator each second receiving one litre of water at 6,800 bar pressure outputs 500kW.

Watlow 360kW heating element provides heat source to the water in which the gas gas gets excited.

Cheers Peter



 

Lynx

RE: Home Power Generation
« Reply #8, on November 23rd, 2012, 01:48 AM »
Quote from FaradayEZ on November 22nd, 2012, 10:13 AM
Quote from Lynx on October 20th, 2012, 05:41 AM
Quote from Ravenous Emu on October 18th, 2012, 09:36 PM
Quote from Lynx on October 18th, 2012, 01:09 PM
As heat pumps already are over unity
I'm trying to understand.......
You're quite right.................
I'm wandering of you place the tesla device there, then the engine of the pump has to work for the energy gained by that tesla device. So your pump needs to work harder?
What I mean is if you put the Tesla device in the upstream of the refrigerant
it then steals energy from that flow in order to turn it into electric energy via an
alternator, which in turn powers the heat pump compressor + the circulation
pump and all the control electronics needed to operate the whole system.

That in turn means that you get less heat out of the heat pump to heat up your
water, but I could actually live with that as it would be for free anyway, provided
that the Tesla engine works the way I think (hope) that it does.

That way I wouldn't have to pay for the electric energy needed to operate the
heat pump, the Tesla engine would in that case provide all the electric energy
needed to power the whole system (via the alternator), it would in other words
power itself and you wouldn't even call it a perpetuum mobile, it's just common
physics, you use the (free) heat energy stored in the ground, much like the way
you use a wheel in a stream of water to power an alternator, you just use the
(free) kinetic energy of the stream.

What would be needed is an initial start of the compressor + pump + electronics
and once the pump is operating normally you switch over the electric supply to
the alternator so it sort of speaking starts powering itself.

This whole concept is of course based on the assumption that the Tesla engine
works the way I hope it does, otherwize this whole theory is totally useless.

DaS Energy

RE: Home Power Generation
« Reply #9, on November 23rd, 2012, 05:49 PM »Last edited on November 23rd, 2012, 05:53 PM by DaS Energy
Hello Lynx,

http://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee397/DaSEnergy/RADIANTPUMP.png

Thank you for your comments. Though there be a couple of things not quite correct, if the attached open technology is used.  

No Telsa device is involved, power is generated by a hydro turbine.  There is no heat pump compressor, nor are there any electronics needed to operate the whole system.

Water temperature is maintaned by a thermostat opening and closing as in a combustion engine.

To your question as to where the turbine should be placed, upstream is where it allready is, water travelling uphill passes through.  This occurs so no pump or compressor is needed for the gas return. Gas return is accomplished by water fall after leaving the hydro turbine, drawing a vacuum behind it, which is filled with cold gas drawn out of the cooling tank.  This occurs no matter what pressure/force is being delivered to the hydro turbine.  The temperature differential between the heat source and cooling device sets the pressure/force received by the turbine.

Moving away from gathered heating, a electric heating element maker poses their 320kW heating element will keep water at 100*C.   This we have not yet trialed.   100*C water is used to heat Carbon Dioxide which forces one litre of water per second to a hydro turbine generating 500kW.

Finding Nemos boat builder would be a boon as he/she got the shaft seal to hold at 20,000 leagues under the sea. Power generation needs only seal against 12,500 leagues under the sea.

We have thought leather or magnet force feild as shaft seal, and remain open to all suggestions.

Cheers Peter





 





Lynx

RE: Home Power Generation
« Reply #10, on November 24th, 2012, 02:14 AM »
Quote from DaS Energy on November 23rd, 2012, 05:49 PM
Hello Lynx,

http://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee39...NTPUMP.png

Thank you for your comments. Though there be a couple of things not quite correct, if the attached open technology is used.................
I'm sorry but I'm not describing anything that has to do with what you are working
on, I am merely venting ideas to the original post regarding Geothermal Heat Pump
/ Ground Source Heat Pump.

But thanks anyway.

FaradayEZ

RE: Home Power Generation
« Reply #11, on November 24th, 2012, 04:17 PM »
Quote from Lynx on November 23rd, 2012, 01:48 AM
Quote from FaradayEZ on November 22nd, 2012, 10:13 AM
I'm wandering of you place the tesla device there, then the engine of the pump has to work for the energy gained by that tesla device. So your pump needs to work harder?
What I mean is if you put the Tesla device in the upstream of the refrigerant
it then steals energy from that flow in order to turn it into electric energy via an
alternator,

This whole concept is of course based on the assumption that the Tesla engine
works the way I hope it does, otherwize this whole theory is totally useless.
Ok, so it uses only the heat.



Lynx

RE: Home Power Generation
« Reply #12, on November 25th, 2012, 04:40 AM »
Quote from FaradayEZ on November 24th, 2012, 04:17 PM
Quote from Lynx on November 23rd, 2012, 01:48 AM
Quote from FaradayEZ on November 22nd, 2012, 10:13 AM
I'm wandering of you place the tesla device there, then the engine of the pump has to work for the energy gained by that tesla device. So your pump needs to work harder?
What I mean is if you put the Tesla device in the upstream of the refrigerant
it then steals energy from that flow in order to turn it into electric energy via an
alternator,

This whole concept is of course based on the assumption that the Tesla engine
works the way I hope it does, otherwize this whole theory is totally useless.
Ok, so it uses only the heat.
No, it only uses the kinetic energy of the refrigerant.

Ravenous Emu

RE: Home Power Generation
« Reply #13, on November 25th, 2012, 02:47 PM »
Quote from Lynx on October 20th, 2012, 05:41 AM
I'm more curious as to what a Tesla bladeless turbine engine could have to offer
if you were to let the upstream of the refrigerant pass through the Tesla engine
just before it comes back to the heat exchanger in your heat pump.
I think I see where you were going with this... Let's see if I understand your point.
If you've got a Stirling Engine like this one. (http://www.animatedengines.com/vstirling.html)
Then, you would stick a "tesla turbine" in the tube/pipe connecting the two cylinders.  Is this correct?

That way you take advantage of the moving "refrigerant".  as opposed to the expansion and contraction of the "refrigerant".

Trying to stick to the KISS method. :D
The whole point of the Heat Pump was to just maintain a specific temperature on the Stirling Engine in order to have a constant output.

Lynx

RE: Home Power Generation
« Reply #14, on November 25th, 2012, 03:29 PM »
Quote from Ravenous Emu on November 25th, 2012, 02:47 PM
Quote from Lynx on October 20th, 2012, 05:41 AM
I'm more curious as to what a Tesla bladeless turbine engine could have to offer
if you were to let the upstream of the refrigerant pass through the Tesla engine
just before it comes back to the heat exchanger in your heat pump.
I think I see where you were going with this... Let's see if I understand your point.
If you've got a Stirling Engine like this one. (http://www.animatedengines.com/vstirling.html)
Then, you would stick a "tesla turbine" in the tube/pipe connecting the two cylinders.  Is this correct?

That way you take advantage of the moving "refrigerant".  as opposed to the expansion and contraction of the "refrigerant".

Trying to stick to the KISS method. :D
The whole point of the Heat Pump was to just maintain a specific temperature on the Stirling Engine in order to have a constant output.
No, my idea was to use a Tesla bladeless turbine instead of the Sterling engine to operate an alternator.

The reason for replacing the Sterling engine as you proposed in the original post
is because of the relatively low efficiency grade of the Sterling engine, it's only
about 40% effective, which in the end doesn't leave so much mechanical work
to operate an alternator.

A Tesla bladeless turbine is about 90% effective, which of course would be more
desireable to use in this application.

My theory is of course based on the assumption that the Tesla engine works the
way I suggest here, otherwize it's useless to pursue this any further.

FaradayEZ

RE: Home Power Generation
« Reply #15, on November 26th, 2012, 12:23 AM »
Hi Lynx,

Can you find a link for me to the Tesla device you thought of?

thx



Lynx

RE: Home Power Generation
« Reply #17, on November 26th, 2012, 09:57 AM »
Quote from FaradayEZ on November 26th, 2012, 12:28 AM
Quote from Lynx on November 25th, 2012, 04:40 AM
Quote from FaradayEZ on November 24th, 2012, 04:17 PM
Ok, so it uses only the heat.
No, it only uses the kinetic energy of the refrigerant.
via the heat..you stated b4 it steals the heat..

or is it it steals the movement?

(hmm have to check the Tesla thing)
Look, this is not rocket science:
If it takes away energy from the refrigerant in order to do work elsewhere,
for example to produce electric energy, you are then left with less energy in
the refrigerant to do what it is originally supposed to do, which is to heat up
water.
Why is this so hard to understand?

FaradayEZ

RE: Home Power Generation
« Reply #18, on November 27th, 2012, 06:46 AM »
Quote from Lynx on November 26th, 2012, 09:57 AM
Quote from FaradayEZ on November 26th, 2012, 12:28 AM
Quote from Lynx on November 25th, 2012, 04:40 AM
Quote from FaradayEZ on November 24th, 2012, 04:17 PM
Ok, so it uses only the heat.
No, it only uses the kinetic energy of the refrigerant.
via the heat..you stated b4 it steals the heat..

or is it it steals the movement?

(hmm have to check the Tesla thing)
Look, this is not rocket science:
If it takes away energy from the refrigerant in order to do work elsewhere,
for example to produce electric energy, you are then left with less energy in
the refrigerant to do what it is originally supposed to do, which is to heat up
water.
Why is this so hard to understand?
Its not, but if the speed of the flow (which is also kinetic energy) is compromised then the pump has to do more work. If it only takes the kinetic energy of the temperature then the pump won't feel it..

Lynx

RE: Home Power Generation
« Reply #19, on November 27th, 2012, 08:55 AM »
Quote from FaradayEZ on November 27th, 2012, 06:46 AM
Quote from Lynx on November 26th, 2012, 09:57 AM
Quote from FaradayEZ on November 26th, 2012, 12:28 AM
Quote from Lynx on November 25th, 2012, 04:40 AM
Quote from FaradayEZ on November 24th, 2012, 04:17 PM
Ok, so it uses only the heat.
No, it only uses the kinetic energy of the refrigerant.
via the heat..you stated b4 it steals the heat..

or is it it steals the movement?

(hmm have to check the Tesla thing)
Look, this is not rocket science:
If it takes away energy from the refrigerant in order to do work elsewhere,
for example to produce electric energy, you are then left with less energy in
the refrigerant to do what it is originally supposed to do, which is to heat up
water.
Why is this so hard to understand?
Its not, but if the speed of the flow (which is also kinetic energy) is compromised then the pump has to do more work. If it only takes the kinetic energy of the temperature then the pump won't feel it..
I'll tell you what:
I just checked out the basic principal of a heat pump and as it turns out my
idea of having a Tesla bladeless engine cut into the stream of the refrigerant
where it turns into vapor after the vaporizer, just before it enters the
compressor, probably wouldn't work.
The purpose of the refrigerant is to carry heat, the kinetic power of the
refrigerant flow itself isn't at all interesting in the heat pump cycle, if I
understand it correctly.

Too bad really as the only other way I know of turning heat into electricity
would be by using a Sterling engine, just like the OP suggested.
If the Sterling engine only had a higher efficiency grade in turning heat into
electricity this whole concept would be a total winner, all you would need
then would be an initial start and after that then the system would be self
sustaining thanks to the heat derived from the ground.

Lynx

RE: Home Power Generation
« Reply #20, on November 30th, 2012, 07:24 AM »
I'm beginning to wonder why no one has found some really effective way to convert heat into electricity.
It would be a most interesting device as it in this case would provide a way for you to heat up your home at virtually
no cost at all.

Could this technology be just as threatening to the fossile based fuel industry as the Meyer WFC tech is?

Could it be that patents etc on this has (is) being just as supressed as Meyer's patents?

Come to think of it, such a really efficient device would be really threatening to not only the fossile based fuel
industry, but basically to just about any power generating company, what ever you have it.

Discuss. :cool:


Jeff Nading

RE: Home Power Generation
« Reply #21, on November 30th, 2012, 08:22 AM »Last edited on November 30th, 2012, 09:05 AM by Jeff Nading
I think you are very correct in this Lynx. What one could do with heat or the removal of heat or even the differential of heat and cold. Iv'e often thought about a differential temperature machine to produce energy, 6' in the ground verses 6' above ground. An example would be, in a very small way, in MV's, is that a thermocouple generates a voltage with two dissimilar metals or wires connected at one end, heating up this end causes a voltage to be generated at the other end. You can connect 10 or more of these thermocouple's in series to generate a higher voltage which would be called a thermopile. These are used in Nat. and LP gas valves to hold the pilot part of the gas valve open. The thermocouple being mounted so as to be held in the pilot flame. What happens is, when you hold the pilot valve in, you light the pilot, once the thermocouple is heated to the point that enough voltage is generated, this voltage is fed to a solenoid which creates a magnetic field, which in turn will hold the pilot valve open, at this point the main valve will come on because the pilot valve staying open also opens the main valve port. If the pilot were to go out for some reason, the pilot valve would close, because of no voltage or magnetic field being generated and being spring loaded to the closed position, would also shut down the main port of the valve.This is as a safety devise.This is also one way of senceing teperature in electronics, with the generation of heat. Oh well class 101 on gas pilots.:D:P

DaS Energy

RE: Home Power Generation
« Reply #22, on November 30th, 2012, 09:02 AM »

Hello Lynx,

Most happy to discuss, however at the moment its 2.30 after midnight over here so I will keep it short for first reply.

AMEN you have it in one.

We are currently going flat out for domestic use, trying to beat them by make your own electricity. Cheaper than what you can buy it for.

Ground heat above minus 10*C and theres no looking back.

The whole of Australia is now mapped urban geothermal below 100*C

At 100*C twenty coal burning power stations go.

The same technology wipes out oil.  

The combustion engine is just an inefficient steam engine. With CO2 the efficiency comes back and costs drop through the floor.  

The best compression and combustion of a Diesel engine gives 120 bar of drive force for a heat of 1200*C.  CO2 does it for +40*C.

Talk soon.

Cheers Peter







Lynx

RE: Home Power Generation
« Reply #23, on November 30th, 2012, 09:33 AM »Last edited on November 30th, 2012, 09:36 AM by Lynx
Quote from Jeff Nading on November 30th, 2012, 08:22 AM
In think you are very correct in this Lynx. What one could do with heat or the removal of heat or even the differential of heat and cold. Iv'e often thought about a differential temperature machine to produce energy, 6' in the ground verses 6' above ground. An example would be, in a very small way, in MV's, is that a thermocouple generates a voltage with two dissimilar metals or wires connected at one end, heating up this end causes a voltage to be generated at the other end. You can connect 10 or more of these thermocouple's in series to generate a higher voltage which would be called a thermopile. These are used in Nat. and LP gas valves to hold the pilot part of the gas valve open. The thermocouple being mounted so as to be held in the pilot flame. What happens is, when you hold the pilot valve in, you light the pilot, once the thermocouple is heated to the point that enough voltage is generated, this voltage is fed to a solenoid which creates a magnetic field, which in turn will hold the pilot valve open, at this point the main valve will come on because the pilot valve staying open also opens the main valve port. If the pilot were to go out for some reason, the pilot valve would close, because of no voltage or magnetic field being generated and being spring loaded to the closed position, would also shut down the main port of the valve.This is as a safety devise.This is also one way of senceing teperature in electronics. Oh well class 101 on gas pilots.:D:P
Thanks Jeff, I didn't know that about the Thermopile, much appreciated.

It's true that you need a difference in temperature in order to be able to get any
work done, much like that of an electric power source in that if you have 2 equal
potentials, that which are galvanically coupled to eachother (I.E common ground
for example), then you could basically short these 2 equal potentials together and
there would still be no current flowing between the 2, you'd need a difference
in potential in order to be able to get current flowing, or if you like, to get work
done.
What I've found so far is that thermoelectricity looks really promising in turning
waste heat, or basically just any kind of (difference in) heat into electricity.
Waste heat is basically found in all kinds of mechanical, moving or heat generating
application, whatever you have it.

In the case of home power generation you could basically do just as well in
applying a highly effective way of turning heat into electricity in the heat pump and
instead of having the heat pump heating up the water through the heat exchanger
you could let the electricity do the work of heating your house/water/etc using
electric radiators/heaters instead.

On a good day the COP of a standard heat pump is about 3, so if the effciency
grade of the device turning heat into electricity is fairly high, let's for arguments
sake say in the range of about 80%, then you would first get 3 times more heat
effect out of the heat pump compared to the electric effect you feed into in the
heat pump, after that you would then be left with 0.8 x 3 times of electric effect
out of the 'heat-to-electricity' device, which would leave you with a net electric
gain of 2.4, so in a 3 kW heat pump you would end up getting 7.2 kW of electric
effect out of it.
If you then first use 3 kW to power the heat pump, in order to make it self
sustaining, you would then be left with 4.2 kW at your disposal to do whatever you
want with it , for example heat up your house, keep your lights on, surf the
internet, bla bla bla. :cool:
Quote from DaS Energy on November 30th, 2012, 09:02 AM
Hello Lynx,

Most happy to discuss, however at the moment its 2.30 after midnight over here so I will keep it short for first reply.

AMEN you have it in one.

We are currently going flat out for domestic use, trying to beat them by make your own electricity. Cheaper than what you can buy it for.

Ground heat above minus 10*C and theres no looking back.

The whole of Australia is now mapped urban geothermal below 100*C

At 100*C twenty coal burning power stations go.

The same technology wipes out oil.  

The combustion engine is just an inefficient steam engine. With CO2 the efficiency comes back and costs drop through the floor.  

The best compression and combustion of a Diesel engine gives 120 bar of drive force for a heat of 1200*C.  CO2 does it for +40*C.

Talk soon.

Cheers Peter
Cheers Peter, you sure know about heat and cold downunda :D

Jeff Nading

RE: Home Power Generation
« Reply #24, on November 30th, 2012, 09:46 AM »
Quote from Lynx on November 30th, 2012, 09:33 AM
Quote from Jeff Nading on November 30th, 2012, 08:22 AM
In think you are very correct in this Lynx. What one could do with heat or the removal of heat or even the differential of heat and cold. Iv'e often thought about a differential temperature machine to produce energy, 6' in the ground verses 6' above ground. An example would be, in a very small way, in MV's, is that a thermocouple generates a voltage with two dissimilar metals or wires connected at one end, heating up this end causes a voltage to be generated at the other end. You can connect 10 or more of these thermocouple's in series to generate a higher voltage which would be called a thermopile. These are used in Nat. and LP gas valves to hold the pilot part of the gas valve open. The thermocouple being mounted so as to be held in the pilot flame. What happens is, when you hold the pilot valve in, you light the pilot, once the thermocouple is heated to the point that enough voltage is generated, this voltage is fed to a solenoid which creates a magnetic field, which in turn will hold the pilot valve open, at this point the main valve will come on because the pilot valve staying open also opens the main valve port. If the pilot were to go out for some reason, the pilot valve would close, because of no voltage or magnetic field being generated and being spring loaded to the closed position, would also shut down the main port of the valve.This is as a safety devise.This is also one way of senceing teperature in electronics. Oh well class 101 on gas pilots.:D:P
Thanks Jeff, I didn't know that about the Thermopile, much appreciated.

It's true that you need a difference in temperature in order to be able to get any
work done, much like that of an electric power source in that if you have 2 equal
potentials, that which are galvanically coupled to eachother (I.E common ground
for example), then you could basically short these 2 equal potentials together and
there would still be no current flowing between the 2, you'd need a difference
in potential in order to be able to get current flowing, or if you like, to get work
done.
What I've found so far is that thermoelectricity looks really promising in turning
waste heat, or basically just any kind of (difference in) heat into electricity.
Waste heat is basically found in all kinds of mechanical, moving or heat generating
application, whatever you have it.

In the case of home power generation you could basically do just as well in
applying a highly effective way of turning heat into electricity in the heat pump and
instead of having the heat pump heating up the water through the heat exchanger
you could let the electricity do the work of heating your house/water/etc using
electric radiators/heaters instead.

On a good day the COP of a standard heat pump is about 3, so if the effciency
grade of the device turning heat into electricity is fairly high, let's for arguments
sake say in the range of about 80%, then you would first get 3 times more heat
effect out of the heat pump compared to the electric effect you feed into in the
heat pump, after that you would then be left with 0.8 x 3 times of electric effect
out of the 'heat-to-electricity' device, which would leave you with a net electric
gain of 2.4, so in a 3 kW heat pump you would end up getting 7.2 kW of electric
effect out of it.
If you then first use 3 kW to power the heat pump, in order to make it self
sustaining, you would then be left with 4.2 kW at your disposal to do whatever you
want with it , for example heat up your house, keep your lights on, surf the
internet, bla bla bla. :cool:
Quote from DaS Energy on November 30th, 2012, 09:02 AM
Hello Lynx,

Most happy to discuss, however at the moment its 2.30 after midnight over here so I will keep it short for first reply.

AMEN you have it in one.

We are currently going flat out for domestic use, trying to beat them by make your own electricity. Cheaper than what you can buy it for.

Ground heat above minus 10*C and theres no looking back.

The whole of Australia is now mapped urban geothermal below 100*C

At 100*C twenty coal burning power stations go.

The same technology wipes out oil.  

The combustion engine is just an inefficient steam engine. With CO2 the efficiency comes back and costs drop through the floor.  

The best compression and combustion of a Diesel engine gives 120 bar of drive force for a heat of 1200*C.  CO2 does it for +40*C.

Talk soon.

Cheers Peter
Cheers Peter, you sure know about heat and cold downunda :D
That sounds really awesome and doable, and again wonder why, like you, that no one has done it.