A country like for example Iceland, who get's some 87% of geothermal heat to their houses, sure would like to get their hands on
such a highly efficient device.
Then they would be able to provide free electric energy to the whole of Iceland and in addition to that they would be able to sell
inexpensive electricity to for example EU.

Here's a quote I found:
In Iceland, there are three major geothermal power plants which produce about 17% (2004) of the country's electricity. In addition, geothermal heating meets the heating and hot water requirements for around 87% of the nations' housing.
(http://iceland.vefur.is/iceland_nature/geology_of_iceland/geothermal_heat.htm)

By the way, such converted heat pumps could basically be placed just about anywhere, providing electric energy 24/7.
And if the owners of these 'geothermal-to-electricity-generating' powerplants were to sell their electricity to an unreasonable
high price, well then the general public would start building such powerplants themselves, then it would be a simple matter
of having a fairly high one time cost, after that then there would only be maintenance costs involved. :cool:

http://www.gizmag.com/most-efficient-thermoelectric-material/24210/
This is (officially) the latest in heat-to-electricity conversion tech.
It converts about 15 to 20 percent of waste heat into electricity.

Is this the best modern science has to offer?
I don't think so.
So why aren't we there yet?
Here's a few why: Greed, oil, gasoline, fossile based fuel, greed (greed is so powerful that it can be mentioned twice).

This and Stanley Meyer WFC tech would be very real threats to any countries infrastructures, once we're able to build them.
The only way for any of these technologies to make it is if they're launched on a wide front and put into use Worldwide as soon
as humanly possible once they're made available to the general public.

If you two knew how on it you were your starfish would squeeze up.

Commenced 2002, assitance appreciated to American Universities and NASA.

Handed over to State Department and Australian Government 2006. All fell down a Coal pit 2007.

Headed into North Korera but the US turned the Oil came back on.

Home built in the picture is hardware shop water pipe and fittings, squash balls, car water pump and bottle of Pepsi. It will cool at low pressure same way as it does at high pressure.  

The 720 watts at 9 bar and 1 litre per second, thats down in the canyon. Domestic get more power by micro turbine if going under -10*C.

While a underground heat differential occur in inch increments it be more stable a little deeper down.

Please note I have been calling the thermal  figures low to dispatch any queery they be overstated.

Lnyx generator and turbine may be one and the same.  Heating may occur internal of turbine casing (no boiler). How do you get it hot without thermal element?

Cheers Peter

http://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee397/DaSEnergy/COMPRESSOR.png

Hello Lynx,

I agree with that you say of the past, and the present they try it again.  As you mentioned Coal and Oil.  The real losers in any change.  They dominate the world at the moment yet never existed for hundreds of years. Cave man boiled water and we consider ourselves more evolved because we can boil it hotter.

The fight is not unlike put against oil and the combustion engine, the horse breeder and Governments tried to stop it but couldnt stop the people making them at home. Use to be hundred of engine makers from home workshops they defeated the horse and in turn were defeated by companies making engines.

Nobody makes a steam/gas engine at home anymore let alone a combustion engine. However the design of both gas/heat replacing steam and flash heat replacing combustion is so simple its made at home, which made the coffee cups rattle down the Coal pit and caused concern that another golden beach turning black would spur on we dont need it get rid of it.

That which is Open Technology cannot be suppressed, they can only get you if money is your thing, because then you never let it out and nobody ever buys it, they are not fools.

The more the word gets out the faster things will change.  Those with more costly less efficient technology want to keep selling it, wholsaler, retailer, repair man etc.

Their problem is they cant come within a bulls roar of the cost and efficiency, and the back pocket eventualy wins.

Change started years ago and like a stream it picks up more and more till being a raging river.

Governments and black air makers in our countries swamp the airwaves with look at the you beaut Solar (useless) isnt it great. Cant compete with Coal or Oil but they keep that mute as possible.

All those that recently got sucked in by Government and spent big on Solar, this month got shafted by Government, pulled the rebates, and wiped out it ever getting onto the grid, so those poor suckers are stuck with a huge white elephant and have no money now to buy anything else. Give Coal, Oil and Government their due, that was a stunner of a move to hold back change. In short go out and buy something worth it, now you havent got the money anymore, you dope!

Possibly you could help me out here. Is it true California has banned burning Coal, and has a canyon somewhere with hydro power?

Cheers Peter:)

Quote from DaS Energy on December 1st, 2012, 02:23 AM

Possibly you could help me out here. Is it true California has banned burning Coal, and has a canyon somewhere with hydro power?

Cheers Peter:)

I'm sorry Peter, no idea mate.

Governments will have hell on Earth once some device giving us free
energy (let's just call it free energy, without any BS) is made available to the
general public.

Why don't we speculate a little on that. :angel:

To start with there would be a boom in spreading this tech, whatever it is, let's for
arguments sake say then that it's the Meyer WFC that's been made open to the
general public.
People would integrate it in their cars, motorcycles, lawnmowers, basically all
and any vehicle that which at present is powered by some fossile based fuel.

That would mean the start of the end of the fossile based fuel industry as we
know it, Worldwide.

As a result of that there would be a massive unemployment crisis, not just in the
companies actually collecting the fuels, it would also affect the rest of the
companies who's under the 'fossile based fuel umbrella', namely the shipping
industries, the power generating companies who uses FBF (clever, eh? :D), the
refineries, the sub contractors who's depending on the FBF industries, etc etc.

The governments themselves would suffer immensely due to the sudden drop of
income taxes, not to mention the unemployment spendings on all fronts and ends.

The people who suddenly finds themselves out of a job will (have to) start looking
for ways to maintain a decent standard of living, so technologies such as this,
http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=144 , will emerge all
over, providing food at virtually no cost, because, hey, the energy needed to
operate these things is free after all.

Also home owners will equip their houses with such Meyer WFC based machines
that provides heat and electricity.

After a while a new state of 'normality' would emerge, where people have all the
food and energy they need and governments have less taxes to calculate
(speculate) with in their budgets.

Here comes an interesting question:
When we get all the food and all the energy we need, would we then have to
work for a living?
If not, how could we then afford to buy new cellphones, laptops, tv's, etc? :cool:

Thanks.

YES!

and NO!

Steam revolution, ridded sail making and the bullocks etc etc. (change)

Combustion engine they gave up on the horses as well.  (change)

Cave man boiled water, shaven man boils it hotter. (great leap forward)

Man still involved in all life, it just becomes cheaper (see Steam revolution) and cheaper. (see Combustion engine)

By making it so simple one thing does both, it has one moving part, it can be made at home or home garage (see Steam and Combustion engine)

The money doesnt disappear it just moves around, just like always and as allways not the way some people want.:exclamation:





 

Hello Lynx,

"If the Sterling engine only had a higher efficiency grade in turning heat into
electricity this whole concept would be a total winner"

Not a STIRLING ENGINE!   A 82% efficient Pelton wheel. works the same with Francis and Kapston type turbine.  Little friction feed back when oil rubs against a surface - unlike Stirling.

Cheers Peter

Quote from DaS Energy on December 1st, 2012, 03:44 PM

Hello Lynx,

"If the Sterling engine only had a higher efficiency grade in turning heat into
electricity this whole concept would be a total winner"

Not a STIRLING ENGINE!   A 82% efficient Pelton wheel. works the same with Francis and Kapston type turbine.  Little friction feed back when oil rubs against a surface - unlike Stirling.

Cheers Peter

Well the purpose of the Sterling engine is that it can turn heat energy into
mechanical (electric) energy, but it's efficiency grade is rather poor at this, the
overall grade here is only about in the range of 15-20% in converting heat into
electricity.

The Pelton wheel and the Francis turbine turns kinetic energy into mechanical (or
if you will electric) energy, it's not the same as turning heat into electricity.

But thanks anyway!

For Heating Flowing Water. (heat source)
KW = Liters/min. x Temperature Rise (°C) x 0.076.
1 litre per second. 60 x 50 x 0.076 = 228KW.
Transfer the heat from the H2O to the CO2.
Transfer the CO2 pressure to the turbine liquid.
7,000 bar pressure liquid to turbine- 1 litre per second = 560KW.

Here's an interesting concept in turning heat into electricity:
http://www.technologyreview.com/view/427140/graphene-battery-turns-ambient-heat-into-electric-current/
I believe that this concept, or something similar to this, will in the end prove to be the most effective way of turning
heat into electricity.
It doesn't involve any moving parts which can (will) produce even more heat due to friction and other such heat
generating losses, so the less moving parts the higher the efficiency. :cool:

Here's another no-moving-parts-electricity-generating device, uses something called the spin Seebeck effect:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/07/120711130909.htm
Beware FBF:ers, the future holds no place for your kind :cool:

Thanks for that, gave me a bit of a turn before I read further.
They are still at micro vollts and have no upped it to miilivolts.
They dont let on at what temperature they get any volt!
But hey good on em for doing something different.

I wonder if Oaklahoma and California University are keeping an eye on them.  California and Oaklahoma University together with NASA played a part in DaS development.

Please FBF:ers, ?

Cheers Peter

Quote from DaS Energy on December 2nd, 2012, 05:12 PM

Please FBF:ers, ?

Cheers Peter

Short for Fossile Based Fuel :D

Thanks,
Cheers Peter

haven't been on in a while. :dodgy:
LOL! your posts were hilarious to read through.  Specifically when you got to the "FBF'ers" :D

Your guy's ideas are pretty neat.  Jeff beat me to the punch on those thermocouples and thermopiles. :P
You would probably need... a gazillion... of those thermocouple/pile combinations to even dream of an off grid house. :P

Lynx... talking about an electrical generator... check this out. :D:cool:
I know this is slightly off topic from the original post... however, it goes hand in hand with "home power generation".

Are you guys thinking what I'm thinking?  :D
It's a matter of scale and efficiency! :D:cool:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bssBAb6EzM4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bssBAb6EzM4

The concept is cool, I don't know if there would be enough momentum to do work though and would sure vibrate allot. Maybe in a different manor of design it could generate power. Thanks Ravenous Emu.:cool::D:P

Quote from Ravenous Emu on December 24th, 2012, 09:06 AM

Lynx... talking about an electrical generator... check this out. :D:cool:
I know this is slightly off topic from the original post... however, it goes hand in hand with "home power generation".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bssBAb6EzM4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bssBAb6EzM4

Thanks R.E, I've seen that video before, I think it looks doable actually.
The problem(?) could be that perm magnets doesn't like taking a pounding very much,
they tend to lose their magnetism through such things (hits, heat, etc).

Quote from Ravenous Emu on December 24th, 2012, 09:06 AM

haven't been on in a while. :dodgy:
LOL! your posts were hilarious to read through.  Specifically when you got to the "FBF'ers" :D

Your guy's ideas are pretty neat.  Jeff beat me to the punch on those thermocouples and thermopiles. :P
You would probably need... a gazillion... of those thermocouple/pile combinations to even dream of an off grid house. :P

Lynx... talking about an electrical generator... check this out. :D:cool:
I know this is slightly off topic from the original post... however, it goes hand in hand with "home power generation".

Are you guys thinking what I'm thinking?  :D
It's a matter of scale and efficiency! :D:cool:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bssBAb6EzM4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bssBAb6EzM4

Ho Hum!

Quote from Jeff Nading on December 24th, 2012, 09:22 AM

The concept is cool, I don't know if there would be enough momentum to do work though and would sure vibrate allot. Maybe in a different manor of design it could generate power. Thanks Ravenous Emu.:cool::D:P

Sadly, I see your point. :(
However, That's why we build and test right. :D

Quote from Ravenous Emu on January 1st, 2013, 08:33 AM

Quote from Jeff Nading on December 24th, 2012, 09:22 AM

The concept is cool, I don't know if there would be enough momentum to do work though and would sure vibrate allot. Maybe in a different manor of design it could generate power. Thanks Ravenous Emu.:cool::D:P

Sadly, I see your point. :(
However, That's why we build and test right. :D

Yes indeedy :D:D:P

Quote from Lynx on November 30th, 2012, 07:24 AM

I'm beginning to wonder why no one has found some really effective way to convert heat into electricity.
It would be a most interesting device as it in this case would provide a way for you to heat up your home at virtually
no cost at all.

Could this technology be just as threatening to the fossile based fuel industry as the Meyer WFC tech is?

Could it be that patents etc on this has (is) being just as supressed as Meyer's patents?

Come to think of it, such a really efficient device would be really threatening to not only the fossile based fuel
industry, but basically to just about any power generating company, what ever you have it.

Discuss. :cool:

Hello Lynx,

That which you speak off allready exists, its workings validadated by NASA and California University (see posts DaS Energy) its open technology, meaning free to copy.

Its not development that is needed its the patience and cunning to overcome the vested interests of other energy form suppliers.

Commercial breweries are first to take up the technology breakthrough. Unlike Solar and Wind which relies upon fossil fuelled power OK,  or power priced beyound acceptance, CO2 power generation is 24/7 and fossil fuelled power cant find any threat to stop breweries using such.  

As more business take up the technology the greater the threat to fossil fuels, however much like the horse and oxen loss to the machine age nothing can stop the uptake of new technology, only delay the inevitable.

One example of many where the enormous  energy store of CO2 is engaged.

PS.  Any enviroment where the temperature is above -10*C any amount of electricty may be produced. The higher the temperature the more compact the turbine/generator.  The energy supplied by heated CO2 leaves the charts at +80*C , that 20* before water boils, and Steam energy cannot match the power of CO2 no matter what heat is applied.

http://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee397/DaSEnergy/TURBINE.png

Quote from DaS Energy on January 8th, 2013, 05:27 PM

Quote from Lynx on November 30th, 2012, 07:24 AM

I'm beginning to wonder why no one.............

Hello Lynx,

That which you speak off allready exists, its workings validadated by NASA and California University............

Thanks for the reply.

Do you have a link to either NASA or California University where all this is explained?

Thanks.

Hello Lynx,
Sorry but no.  However NASA can help with the Carbon Dioxide heat/pressure and cooling >see web begining 2002. This is when NASA first published CO2 as Refrigerant R744. There now be a web site totaly devoted called R744.
The other is California Correspondence school of hydro engineering. They and others can assist with hydro turbines of 82% efficieincy. These are the only two thing of huge importance. From the post you will see at diferent temperature setting CO2 has different pressures. CO2 phase graphs are mutli listed on the web.

System working are straight forward, the same as air blowing water out of a pipe. Any number of design may be had.
In simple terms a pipe is attached to the inlet side of a turbine and a further pipe is attached to the exit side of the turbine. The pipes and turbine are filled with water. Then if air/gas is blown into the inlet pipe water will move through the turbine.

What is occuring in the posting is the inlet pipe is one way valved at the top.  Top portion of that pipe has no water wheras the bottom portion of the pipe does.  The top portion of the inlet pipe has filled with cold CO2 which is heating and putting blow pressure on the water below which moves through the turbine and up into a holding tank that feeds water back into the inlet pipe when there is no CO2 gas pressure keeping the one way valve closed.

The C02 heat expanding sees it follow direct behind the water. This it does untill coming to pass under a vertical pipe going direct to the holding tank. (This pipe at its top is capped with a hole drilled through it. Sitting underneath that hole is a ball which is held there by its floating on water which fills the pipe)  The CO2 gas finding itself under a pipe filled with water obeys the physics that gas will always rise to to surface of water.  The CO2 travelling up the pipe pushes water out of the bottom of the pipe and therby leaves the ball nothing to float on so it drops down leaving the hole clear for the CO2 to escape. (The CO2 not escape to freedom but the same holding tank as the water) CO2 going from high compression to low compression results in it flash cooling (hence R744) though being a gas it remains atop the water.  After enough CO2 has exited to the water holding tank there not be enough pressure left inside the inlet pipe to keep the one way closed so it opens under water pressure and allows water to drain from the holding tank and refill the inlet pipe. This in rush of water behind the CO2 gas causes it all to exit throught the vertical pipe having the air valve (as described). As there is not enough water to fill the inlet pipe a vacuum is created which fills with cold CO2 gas drawn by water movement into the inlet pipe. The end effect of water and gas movement is that the red zone is full of cold gas and water has returned to as before and with the ball again floated sealing off the gas escape hole. What then happens is the cold CO2 gas in the red zone of the the inlet pipe begins to heat up and expand putting force the water below.

Flow data for any 82% efficient hydro turbine is > Water of 9 bar pressure and flowing at 1 litre per second shall produce 729 watts of electricity.  This increases at both volume of water per second. Bar pressure of water flow.

That posted is the simpliest of all making using scrap pipe, a car water pump and tennis or squash balls.

Person with access to machine shop may make different yet still entirely only one moving part (liberty taken that the balls remain stationary in the water)

 I be a back yard developer and so am without that of other posters, however I can walk you through.

Please take real care when heating CO2, the minimum working pressure of 9 bar need is arrived at hot side of -10*C, which rapidly climbs to be 10,000 bar at hot side of +80*C.

Cheers Peter

10000 bar of pressure?
Sounds dangerous to me.

I still don't understand exactly how it works, but thanks anyway.

Isn't there any online community building these things?

Thanks.

10,000 bar is a common pressure in mining and indeed quite safe, though the home builder may choose to stay closer to the 9 bar lower heat mark.

Of real interest is the heat need to bar pressure, Steam at +550*C is 175 bar whilst CO2 at +80*C is 10,000 bar. Both Steam and CO2 are a gas. A Steam turbine/generator at 175 bar pressure outputs 350 megawatts .

10,000 :- 175 = 57 x 350 = 20,000 megawatts.  550 :- 80 = 6.8 .  6.8 x 20,000 =  136,000 megawatts, bit of a saving there!

I not know of any community build though would assist given Coal and Oils lack of enthusiasm.