7 tube WFC Stan Meyers Plans Size Dimensions Water Fuel Cell

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7 tube WFC Stan Meyers Plans Size Dimensions Water Fuel Cell
« on February 14th, 2022, 07:21 AM »Last edited on February 14th, 2022, 07:24 AM
7 tube WFC Stan Meyers Plans Size Dimensions Water Fuel Cell

Some times we sit thinking for very long periods to find things not filed right lost or simply not posted in entirety
this is one such case.

So I re post with better title  and 3d print files
this should accelerate those trying to o make cell  sets for bench testing.

All the Best
Dan

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Re: 7 tube WFC Stan Meyers Plans Size Dimensions Water Fuel Cell
« Reply #1, on February 14th, 2022, 07:21 AM »Last edited on February 14th, 2022, 07:30 AM
From Timeshells Efforts

Summary Version 2 2020
Next version of  7 cell water fuel cell. Still under development.

Uses tubes with part #'s from McMaster-Carr.
89785K844 - 1/2" x 3.5" tube X 6
89785K837 - 3/8" x 4" tube X 6

Designed to fit in a 4" ABS tube.
Use accompanying hole template to make holes in tube for the electrical contacts. Use the cap ring to isolate the middle tubes from the top.

With tube part numbers above, the gap between the tubes should be 0.7mm. With the length of the tubes indicated, the capacitance of each pair of tubes with air as the dielectric should measure approximately 43pf.

​Dimensions are a very important element in the design of the water fuel cell if you want it to work the way Stan Meyer made them work. The dimensions here are according to my calculations for my system and won't necessarily work for your design.
Do your homework.
Update 2018-06-20
The original .stl for the main unit was 9mm too short. This has been corrected.
Update 2018-06-28
Updated some dimensions and corrected flaw that would prevent flow.
Update 2018-06-29
Major change. Shortened main cell body and made tube caps singles.

Tubes should fit better now.
3D Print Files Here
Cell_HousingV7.stl
Cell_HousingV7.3mf
Cell_Housing_Hole_Template_V7.stl
Cell_Housing_Cap_RingV7.stl
Cell_Housing_Cap_RingV7.3mf

3D Print Files Attached GOD SPEED

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Re: 7 tube WFC Stan Meyers Plans Size Dimensions Water Fuel Cell
« Reply #2, on February 14th, 2022, 07:25 AM »
worth note-ing  this is 7 tube is made by builders no stand to learn I believe stan learnt cells to be in series pairs and the 7th tube is heater.
here is a pic using by pass diode so series cells do not collapse others and pairs balance inner outer resistance
relevant to 5 , 9, 11 & 7 tube wfc units all have heater tubes,



Earl

Re: 7 tube WFC Stan Meyers Plans Size Dimensions Water Fuel Cell
« Reply #5, on February 28th, 2022, 11:49 AM »
Dan

Thanks for posting this I have been planning on building a cell.  I think the 7 tubes one will be the easiest for me.  I do have a couple of questions.

The post above referenced McMaster-Carr and part numbers 89784K844 and 8985K837 for the 1/2" and 3/8" tubes.  Are there drawings for making these 2 tubes?

Has anyone posted the math that goes with these tubes to build the coils?   I have the math for the 10-tube design that Ronnie posted in an Excel spread sheet.   Ronnie did mention that coils and be adjust for 6-tubes, but you need to know cap value of cells, so I am glad you posted the 43pf value.

I do have a copy of the tube design Russ posted but that was for 11-tube design.

Earl

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Re: 7 tube WFC Stan Meyers Plans Size Dimensions Water Fuel Cell
« Reply #6, on March 1st, 2022, 08:00 PM »Last edited on March 1st, 2022, 08:13 PM
Yoru Welcome Please Make sure wired in pairs  series so use 6 of the 7 tubes

Notes to Consider
As Builders we focus on raising the applied Step Charge DC voltage level applied to the tubes cells whilst not raising amps.

 The Resistance of those bypass diodes and blocking diodes aid in restricting amps with the chokes in the circuit to  further reduce amps being drawn to the Cell pairs and at the same time ensure Raising Voltage, as they also have resistance as Components in the circuit. The Tube Cells in the Voltrolysis Unit are Wired in Series between each tube cell set.
to ensure they can produce enough DC voltage.

To make enough voltage so the The Magnetic Water to Gas Separation Effect is maintained.
or what we call Voltrolysis. Stephen Meyer Said 11 to 12 Volts. ( this can be the gated vdc in and/ or the Capacitance held.)

===========================================
So, first point is the number of Diodes in the cell sets Combiner.
box tells you how many cell pairs you have in the Voltrolysis Unit Cell Assembly.

Tube cell are always in Pairs never singular tube cells. As we balance the resistance of inner and outer tubes diameter by pairing the cell tubes in series(thus solving the winding issues on vic left right chokes. for inner outer..

. For the Bypass Diode
Each Bypass Diode is Wired in Parallel between each Tube Cell pair in the Voltrolysis Unit.
This will insure even if 1 Tube Cell pair is empty of water or not performing/
The rest of Series Tube Cell pairs that this pairs is Connected to will keep performing and producing Gas via Voltrolysis at the right voltages.

So the Bypass Diodes bypass a failing Tube Cell set if is empty or not producing enough gas.
 But if you are a beginzer, you might be curious what a Series Tube set is,
 so these tube Cells are wired in series so they can produce a voltage high enough at right rf in a balanced resistance way to be used to run Voltrolysis unit. without amps and make Hydrogen on demand from the Distilled water.

==================================================
Inside a Typical 6 cell or 10 Cell Voltrolysis unit you will have paired set of tubes. for a 6 Cell you will have 3 Series Pairs 3 Diodes in Parallel for a 10 Cell you will have 5 Series Pairs 5 Diodes in Parallel

So it can create 0 to 600 Vdc in the Stanley Meyers Version 1 circuit assembly 8xa/9xb for example
 This will ensure even if 1 Set is empty or not performing. the other sets keep performing at 0 - 600 Vdc from your Switch gate Control voltage level ( variac ).

The Tube Cells are Wired in Series and wired in set via series method also.
to ensure they can produce enough. DC voltage. To make The Magnetic Water to gas Separation Effect ,or what we call Voltrolysis. ( a non-electrolyte process) with no dead short or amp draw
===================================================
So, in the Voltrolysis 6 tube Cell unit we have 3 Series tube cell Sets to create.
this effect. In the first tube cell set, if you look at how these tubes cells are wired.
it starts right here than it connects to this one and this and this one,
and creates a series tube cell set and complete Voltrolysis unit,

So, if any of these Tube Cell sets on this Series fail, that bypass Diode will allow voltage to flow past that Tube Cell Set on that series. Because if this tube cell set is failing to produce gas or in dead short from contaminates, it will bring down the whole Voltrolysis cell series performance. So, the Bypass Diode allows it to be bypassed And Because these Tube cell sets are in series, even if a single tube cell set fails, it will wipe out the Gas producing capability of the whole Voltrolysis unit and all its sets.

 So, whether 1 Tube Cell Set Fails or Multiple Tube Cell sets Fail, that Bypass diode will still be activated and bypass that Tube Cell Set Failure. Provided that all the tube Cells are made with precision this also allow an easy range of PLL to tune to 1 cell set. Creating a close equivalent to a spider antenna tuning mechanism.
==================================================
Also, if the whole Voltrolysis unit fails, then all bypass diodes will allow the whole Voltrolysis unit
to be bypassed in the case you have multiple whole Voltrolysis units. in series.
(whether they be 6 10 or 20 tube units)  So if 1 Tube Cell Pair Fails it will not reduce the whole gas output of the while Voltrolysis unit or series of units, If I did not have these bypass diodes. I and I had 3 Voltrolysis units connected in series with this one, and one Voltrolysis unit fails all 3  Voltrolysis units would not produce gas. But because we have bypass diodes, if this 1 Voltrolysis unit fails the other2 Voltrolysis unit would still products gas. So, bypass Diode are very important for failing cells or units.

===============================================
Blocking Diodes.

let’s talk about blocking diodes as they are completely different. 
First Difference of a Blocking Diode vs a Bypass Diode is a Bypass diode is in parallel configuration?

with the series tube cells pairs. With a Blocking Diode, it is in series configuration to the Series tube cell pairs. So here is a Combiner Box Circuit layout and it shows. 2 individual Voltrolysis Units.

 Traditionally in the olden days the blocking diode was used to ensure batteries did not discharge at night. You Can think of the Voltrolysis unit as a capacitor, due to the fact that it charges up and hold voltage. We want the cell to start charged so it keep producing during the gate off time.  In Addition, we do not want to ground the cell. but in fact hold the cell charged. The more the water splits the more. free electrons become available in the cell and water charging it up further.

 The more Positive charged the water the stronger the surface tension of water.
becomes and thus holds more nano bubble in suspension. So, the Blocking diodes perform that job first for us. But Blockings Diode have a Second job they can accomplish for us, they can be especially useful some Voltrolysis cell configurations.

For Example, when we use the Sequential Vic with the triggering system the vic are in parallel, it is possible if one vic or cell pair is under performing. It will lower the voltage of both bringing down the performance of the other cell pairs or vics and Voltrolysis unit. So, if you have 2 Voltrolysis Units in Parallel from vic trigger junction box you can ensure the lower voltage of one(the capacitance) will not bring down  the voltage of other and thus they stay Matched. or in tune or in resonance.

Let’s imagine we have 2 Voltrolysis units, one unit is a higher temp or pressure.
than the other Voltrolysis unit. So, what will happen because they are connected?
in parallel, the lower producing Voltrolysis unit will discharge some.  of the energy of the higher producing Voltrolysis unit.

Also the Voltages will not match so whenever you are triggering or scaling voltages
in parallel to these series pairs you want the voltage to match. So having a mis match could actually lower the voltage of both arrays if one of them is under performing.

​So what a blocking diode does, is ensure this does not happen. it allows current to flow in only 1 direction and from each Voltrolysis unit. This method can be used on the Electron Extraction circuit also across multiple. Voltrolysis Units.

And typically, we will have 1 Blocking diode for Each Voltrolysis Units or Cell Pair.
 But you can also do 2 pairs per blocking diode provided component max voltage.
specification allows it. That way you will have no fighting and current voltage.
 will flow in an equal fashion to achieve max voltage in Tube Cell Pairs and Voltrolysis Units.
 ===================================================================

So over the course of operation, you will produce more voltage in the tubes and thus more gas / water fuel if properly implemented. Blocking diodes can cause a slight voltage drop but also they help us by restricting some amps via in line resistance and balance voltage made between the tube cell pairs to benefit our system, and tuning efforts.

Keep in mind we can see these diodes in our Multiple vic trigger system as we are sending scalable parallel voltage to series Tube cell pairs and Voltrolysis units. So the Blocking Diodes doing 2 jobs for us 1 Balancing DC High Voltages applied 2 Holding and stopping voltages from draining out of our water capacitor. (Voltrolysis Units) whilst protecting our circuits from damage

But if you have only a single Series Voltrolysis unit on a 8xa/9xb  connecting to only 1 vic , we only use 1 feature of the Blocking diode. 2 Holding and stopping voltages from draining out. of our water capacitor. (Voltrolysis Units) whilst protecting our circuits from damage.
============================================
That is pretty much it. a Bypass diode will bypass a Pair of Tube Cells or
a string of Voltrolysis units. To ensure the maximum output from your Water Fuel Unit.
A Blocking diode traditionally used to avoid discharging of Water Capacitor.
but now days it is also used for when multi vic are connected in parallel to drive.
 tube cell pairs or Voltrolysis units.

Earl

Re: 7 tube WFC Stan Meyers Plans Size Dimensions Water Fuel Cell
« Reply #7, on March 6th, 2022, 10:11 AM »
Dan

I have a 3D printer coming tomorrow so I can print the tube holders.  I am assuming the longer tube goes in the middle and lower screw hole is for that tube.  I could not tell for the pictures if the holder provides the bottom tube spacing.  I can see hold that can be done by having a narrower hole for inside tube at bottom of the tube holder.

I also assume that we are using tubes with no cutouts which would make the fairly easy to make.

Earl

Do the diodes have much impact on impedance calculation?

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Re: 7 tube WFC Stan Meyers Plans Size Dimensions Water Fuel Cell
« Reply #8, on March 8th, 2022, 12:50 AM »
I have a 3D printer coming tomorrow  GOOD

so I can print the tube holders. GOOD

I am assuming the longer tube goes in the middle and lower screw hole is for that tube. YES CAN BE THAT WAY  CAN ALSO BE SAME LENGTH  AND MAKE THROUGH HOLE ON OUTTER  BUT FIRST WAY OK

I could not tell for the pictures if the holder provides the bottom tube spacing. YES

  I can see hold that can be done by having a narrower hole for inside tube at bottom of the tube holder. YES

I also assume that we are using tubes with no cutouts which would make the fairly easy to make. YES

Do the diodes have much impact on impedance calculation?  DEPENDS ON PART AND LENGTH OF TUBES BUT IN GENERAL NO GREAT EFFECT
THE OBJECT OF THIS 3D PRINT IS TO GET PEOPLE MVIGN ON CIRCUITS

THAN THEY BUILD STAND  ONE AS IT IS BEST
THIS IS A BENCH TOY ONE FOR BASIC LEARNING AND BUBBLE MAKING

THE ORIGINAL 1 FROM STAN 8 TUBE 9XB WAS PARRELLE BUT WE KNOW THAT IS NOT BEST BUT WORKS
THESE VERSION IS SERIES SO  PARIS SETS OF TUBES EVEN NUMBER SAY 6  IN 3 PAIRS  ( ALL INNER OUTTER
THE DIODES IN THEIS VERSION BALANCE SOME OF THE MIS MATCH IN TUBE RESISTENCE ,

i HEARD FROM STEHPEN THAT THE IPENDENCE MATCH IS IMPORTANT OR WATER / AIR WILL NOT TAKE IN OR CARRY VOLTAGE TO GET EFFECT
JUST LIKE TUNING A RAIDO 40 OHMS IF NOT THAT THAN NOT MATTER HOW MUCH VOLTS SHE DON T TRANSMITT. STUDY MARCONI

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Re: 7 tube WFC Stan Meyers Plans Size Dimensions Water Fuel Cell
« Reply #9, on March 16th, 2022, 03:03 AM »Last edited on March 16th, 2022, 03:06 AM
Just Some Pics from a Home Builder

DD
 for 6 pairs tube
16 inch length
 
- for 6 pairs tube
8 inch length
for 8xa 9xb tests no shorter than 8 inch for these circuit numbers as capacitance need to be higher in cells wfc
as volt in 110 to 22o v only

Earl

Re: 7 tube WFC Stan Meyers Plans Size Dimensions Water Fuel Cell
« Reply #10, on March 20th, 2022, 06:34 PM »
It took a while but I final have 3D printer setup and printed the tube nose piece from version 3 above.  Looks good I did use 20% infill not sure if should be solid.  Impressed with Creality 3 V2 print quality only changes I made were upgraded springs and additional glass bed clips.  I needed the clips as I had gap between glass and bed at front corners, both changes about $12.  I only did springs as others recommend them and I was going to have to relevel bed after I added clips.



Earl

Re: 7 tube WFC Stan Meyers Plans Size Dimensions Water Fuel Cell
« Reply #13, on March 22nd, 2022, 10:57 AM »Last edited on March 22nd, 2022, 11:09 AM
I seem to remember Russ later said he found ones with stainless steel springs you could purchase.  I could be wrong I see if I can find reference.
Posted: March 22nd, 2022, 05:16 AM

Found reference to items in photo Russ had stated they were off the shelf parts not complete unit.  I have found some double ended studs / double ended shoulder bolts, that look like these most likely would still need to drill hole for springs.  Finding them when searching is a real pain.  Still trying to find ones in photo.

See picture from Stan's Original 11 Cell Resonant cavity sketch and build thread post 148.



 


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Re: 7 tube WFC Stan Meyers Plans Size Dimensions Water Fuel Cell
« Reply #15, on March 22nd, 2022, 08:32 PM »Last edited on March 22nd, 2022, 08:36 PM
Please Try starting with these check measurements
basically we want same as 9 tube cell in terms of
size
length
gap
- type -1 (smaller pipe):
od 3/8"
id 0,305"
thickness 0,035"
Pipe Length: @9"/tube (this is more than 8")
quantity: 6 tubes


- type -2 (bigger pipe):
od 1/2"
id 0,43"
thickness 0,035"
Pipe Lngth: @8,5"/tube
(this is more than 8")
quantity: 6 tubes.

We need to be minimum 8 inch long for basic version 8xa 9xb  can be 16 inch if you can
( as it is the capacitance that makes effect)

but if you  do 9xa vic
then i suggest have 2 set of
tube 1 set for 8xa 9xb  (16 inch or minimum 8 inch)   
and 1 set for 9xa vic 4 to 6 inch but voltage will be way higher from vic to compensate shorter )
the longer the tube and better the insulation between each tube set  the more gas you get

the 3d print you have is a  mid way point in terms
fast easy bench top construction for tests
of tube length wiring and cell construction capacitance. ( which is where 11 cell has good insulation)

Dan

Earl

Re: 7 tube WFC Stan Meyers Plans Size Dimensions Water Fuel Cell
« Reply #16, on March 23rd, 2022, 04:41 AM »
Thanks reason I asked is it appears scale of nose piece that I printed is off.  Outside of inter holder is .587" which will not fit inside a 1/2" pipe.  I will print nose piece from earlier file to check size.

I can rescale if necessary.

It would be nice to have capacitance be the same for 6 cell be the same as 11 cell version. I guess that I had not thought about matching by length of tubes. 

Earl

Re: 7 tube WFC Stan Meyers Plans Size Dimensions Water Fuel Cell
« Reply #17, on March 23rd, 2022, 03:34 PM »
I printed of the nose piece from V7 above it is much smaller size and measurements show it show fit 1/2 and 3/8 inch pipes.  There first one looks like is designed to fit large pipe sizes.  See picture below


Earl

Re: 7 tube WFC Stan Meyers Plans Size Dimensions Water Fuel Cell
« Reply #19, on March 26th, 2022, 03:25 PM »
Dan,

I expect the different size has something to do with design goals.  Tube capacitors have a few things that effect value, surface area, plate separation and dielectric value.  If we fix a dielectric and distance between plates that leave surface area.  You can keep that the same by trading of length against pipe diameter.  So larger shorter pipes set can have same surface area as longer smaller pipes set.

The longer pipes are OK for bench testing, but shorter pipes make more sense in auto use.  Also, longer smaller pipes can be fit is a smaller acrylic tube.

Part of the reason I have not build cells was knowing what to build and lack of access to proper tools.  I remember reading about all the problems people were having trying to figure out what was the capacitance value of the cells.  As the VIC coil and cell needs to a match set to work properly the length matters.  If you change length tubes, you most likely will need to rebuild coils to match impendence.  Note:  A cheap meter was found to give best result and I did purchase one of those.

It looks to me from photos that Stan did a lot of testing to determine a desired capacitor value then built system to match.  You even can see where tube length was different is some of the photos.  I am guessing this was to tune the capacitor value. 

In my case as I tried to design my VIC coils to match a 11 cell (10 working cell) I would like to build a 6 cell system with the same capacitance as the 11 cell system. Now I am not sure that is even possible.  Ronnie did say if you understand the impedance and power equations you can build a system, however, I don't think thing he explained what he changed for his six cell system to work.

I have started try and understand effect of length using the calculator on-line by using 2 different ones.  Calculate pf using calculator for a cylindrical Cap using air as dielectric then put that value in Calculator for 6 Caps in series.  Shorter length gives lower cap value in 10pf range and higher 16' around 25pf.  I can also see wall thickness of outer tube does effect results.

At least I have some feel what changes in pipe length do now.  Still need to take a look at effect on power equation.

Earl



 




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Re: 7 tube WFC Stan Meyers Plans Size Dimensions Water Fuel Cell
« Reply #20, on March 28th, 2022, 12:08 AM »Last edited on March 29th, 2022, 03:36 AM
  Like Stan Did
Start long tube than learn that one 8xa 9xb
and than shrink
 so you know what changes as you shorten

Stan Had 11 versions

Version 1 was 16 inch 8xa scr

Version 9  4/6 inch  9xa transistor vic

all work and longer tube work on all version but short tube does not
 work on first version as no enough volt



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Re: 7 tube WFC Stan Meyers Plans Size Dimensions Water Fuel Cell
« Reply #22, on April 6th, 2022, 08:41 PM »Last edited on April 7th, 2022, 10:37 AM
people build

sharing a 10 Year kids work LOL
Seams even kids can do it 

Thank you Stanley A Meyer RIP 

 Use a thick washer because cell is cylindrical
To make a proper seal


Earl

Re: 7 tube WFC Stan Meyers Plans Size Dimensions Water Fuel Cell
« Reply #24, on May 23rd, 2022, 06:40 PM »
Dan,

I did purchase 6' each of 3/8" and 1/2" 304 stainless steel tube from Grainger that should match the McMaster-Carr part numbers.  Was able to get them faster from Grainger.

I am a little puzzle by the 47pF figure you gave above.   When I run the calculator for cylinder using 3.5 in length in air I get 22.99pF for a single cell.  Then when I use the calculator for capacitors in series for a pair of cell I get 11.495pF.   This is consistent with formula of capacitors in series with the same value the total capacitance goes down.

I guess my next step will be to cut a couple of pieces and try to measure the capacitance not sure how well that will work.

I was hoping I could match the capacitance of a 6 cell system to capacitance of 10 cell one by changing tube length not sure that is going to work.

Earl