Re: science or religion?

namirha

Re: science or religion?
« on August 4th, 2017, 01:45 AM »Last edited on August 5th, 2017, 06:25 AM
do You Believe in God.....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqCpaCKqLiA

Because you didn't come here to make the choice, you've already made IT....
You're here to try to understand why you made IT.....

I thought you'd have figured that out by now.


https://soundcloud.com/maxim-entropymc-com/maxim9691-the-matrix

SlaVe 2 the PHIve SenSeS



+++ you are a SLΛVE, Neo. Like everyone else +++
http://thebluebutterflyis33yonow.blogspot.nl/
Quote

“If we’re indeed a simulation, then that would be a logical possibility, that what we’re measuring aren’t really the laws of nature, they’re some sort of attempt at some sort of artificial law that the simulators have come up with. That’s a depressing thought!”
http://discovermagazine.com/2013/dec/09-do-we-live-in-the-matrix
OLD MOVIE REVEALS MATRIX
...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wig0q6puuwc



Quasicrystal Research
...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPyzSssNhFQ

GOLDEN RATIO
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ratio
Quote

Das Modell zeigt in der Mitte einen konkaven Raum, der nicht-euklidisch, komplex, transzendent und fraktal ist ...
http://www.plichta.de/plichta/vortrag-in-illmenau/gehalten-an-der-uni-illmenau-am-7-6-05
https://nl.pinterest.com/pin/319826011019976096/
AC or DC


The Matrix - Battery
...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IojqOMWTgv8



19 Year Flower of Life in Time
http://infinity-codes.net/raah/_archive/19-year-flower.html
Quote

The matrix is rooted in the first 24 elements from the set of natural numbers not divisible by 2, 3 and 5, which starts with 1 and ends with 89. When these 24 elements are factorized sequentially against themselves and the products are converted to digital roots, e.g., 7 x 7 = 49 = 4 + 9 = 13 = 1 + 3 = dr(4), the Magic Mirror Matrix results. You might call this a Vedic Square on steroids
http://www.primesdemystified.com/magicmatrix.html
lo shu Magic Square / solfeggio code Matrix
...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1PwgCk5r2U

...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOuXPumL3l8
Quote
Part of the genius of the Matrix is its correspondence with the indications given by Steiner concerning the nature of Christ’s Second Coming, that it is not in another outward physical form that we can expect him, but within the depths of our own selves, as we begin to awaken to the Christ within, and begin to ascend in our consciousness to the level which he already occupies.
http://www.hermetics.org/pdf/steiner/Rudolf_Steiner_-_Lucifer_Ahriman_Asuras.pdf
Thinking, Feeling, and Willing
http://elements.spiritalchemy.com/articles/SpiritualMatrix.html
Imagination, Inspiration, and Intuition
Bruce Lee vs The Matrix - The Battle for Wisdom

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4J80Ipnnp_Q



AHRIMAN Priests Neo & Prince The Matrix



The Matrix Trilogy Decoded
...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaDqNDLpZa8
Quote
For a long time NEO is also unable to believe fully in himself. NEO is not The Christ, he ‘only’ wakes up to the Christ within himself, and this is the great power of the film, for the illusionary world of the Matrix, where the ‘powerful’ are as manipulated as much as the powerless, is not some fantastical world, but our own every day world. In this way the film points to the fact that enlightenment is to be found within our own self, and as such it is very self-empowering.


you were born into bondage,
born into a prison that you cannot smell or taste or touch.
A prison...for your mind....
Unfortunately, no one can be...told what the Matrix is...

you have to SEE IT for yourself...




Simply put - in the beginning, the Human was made perfect in God's image.

1998 <> 3 X 666 @ oNe Song

https://nl.pinterest.com/nahriman/shiva/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1V9SbfLA4Zw



Earth's solar system is governed by the Saturnian Council on Saturn. Saturn's population is fifth dimensional and housed mainly within a cubistic matrix at the North Pole. The outline of the matrix is clearly visible to your Earth instruments as a HEXAGON shaped configuration around the north pole of Saturn...

CHOICE
...https://youtu.be/ARoKJ00cEZ8?t=1h11m11s


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3OXs_5AD2A

"... The PROblem is choice."
http://open-source-energy.org/?topic=3023.msg45131#msg45131

namirha

Re: Re: science or religion?
« Reply #1, on August 4th, 2017, 06:19 AM »Last edited on August 4th, 2017, 07:26 AM
9 EL even
https://nl.pinterest.com/nahriman/9-el-even/



NINEisMINE
http://open-source-energy.org/?topic=2860.msg45220#msg45220

ELeven as it exceeds the number ten, which is the number of the commandments, so it falls short of the number twelve, which is of grace and perfection; therefore it is called THE NUMBER OF SINS, and the penitent.

...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfXecU3v-70&feature=youtu.be&t=26m

Count 13
...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAcI6WTpVEw
Quote from Matt Watts on August 4th, 2017, 03:03 AM
Personally, I think I made a mistake.  So the only question left is:

What am I going to do about it?
Trinity: Please just listen. I know why you're here, Neo. I know what you've been doing. I know why you hardly sleep, why you live alone, and why night after night you sit at your computer. You're looking for him. I know, because I was once looking for the same thing. And when he found me, he told me I wasn't really looking for him. I was looking for an answer. It's the question that drives us mad. It's the question that brought you here. You know the question just as I did.
Neo: What is the Matrix.
Trinity: The answer is out there, Neo. It's looking for you. And it will find you, if you want it to.
...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaDqNDLpZa8


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hw88MWoqenQ

namirha

Re: Re: science or religion?
« Reply #2, on August 6th, 2017, 02:51 AM »Last edited on August 6th, 2017, 04:59 AM
Quote from jeremy gwilt on August 5th, 2017, 07:47 AM
correction....*philosophy*, not even religion at this point. unconventional philosophy.
THE SECRET OF LIGHT

By

WALTER RUSSELL

UNIVERSITY OF SCIENCE AND PHILOSOPHY

To the one God,
the universal One
this book is humbly dedicated


http://abundanthope.net/artman2/uploads/1/The_Secret_of_Light.pdf



THE SECRET OF THE UNIVERSE SLIDES
http://www.code144.com/news/the-secret-of-the-universe-slides


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOO6kR69PXM

THE WAVE
IN THE WAVE LIES THE
SECRET OF CREATION
http://open-source-energy.org/?topic=3023.0

What is prayer?  And why do I pray? 
http://open-source-energy.org/?topic=2860.msg45041#msg45041
Quote
The Egyptians knew: The age when wisdom itself was working was preceded by another, when all beings — not only man — descended from divine-spiritual heights. If we would understand the innermost nature of man we must not look at his outer form, but penetrate to his inner being. What we see externally are stages at which primordial creation has remained stationary; such stages are to be seen in the three kingdoms of Nature. The first stage is the world of the minerals and stones — the forms of which are expressed in the Pyramids. The second stage is the world of plants and the inner forces of this world are expressed in the Lotus flower. The third stage is represented by the animal forms, strewn, as it were, along the path to man. Divine forces which have not attained to the human stage have poured and crystallised into the different animal forms.
http://open-source-energy.org/?topic=1233.msg45282#msg45282

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcY3UwH2yS4

Highworth, Wiltshire. Reported 4th August.
http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2017/highworth/highworth2017a.html



LOTUS FLOWER
Quote


In the future only three organs will remain; the heart as Buddhi-organ, the two-petalled lotus-flower between the eyes, and the LEFT HAND as the organ of movement.

http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/GA093a/English/RSP1982/19050929p01.html

namirha

Re: Re: science or religion?
« Reply #3, on August 9th, 2017, 10:27 AM »Last edited on August 9th, 2017, 11:14 AM
the problem is CHOICE...

Quote
Our best guess is the "XXXX" included throughout the video is to serve as a redaction of the ransom amount asked for by the hackers.

http://mashable.com/2017/08/08/hbo-hack-video-ransom-note/#OLKzqKMm3iqu
KEY OF SOLOMON
http://open-source-energy.org/?topic=3005.msg44661#msg44661
Quote
The modern double-slit experiment is a demonstration that light and matter can display characteristics of both classically defined waves and particles; moreover, it displays the fundamentally probabilistic nature of quantum mechanical phenomena. The original experiment was performed by Davisson and Germer in 1927.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-slit_experiment


Quote
Simply put – in the beginning the human was made perfect in God’s image. They had no need for knowledge. They were also given freedom of choice. The Tree of Knowledge and the Tree of life, are reflections of this freedom. The human is now a reflection of their choice. They could have simply chose not to choose. God being centrifugal in nature, freedom was the cause and choice was the effect. In knowing their perfection made in God’s image there was no need to choose. In fact, there were no needs. There was only love in all-knowing state before the fall. The worst thing you can do is give up your God-given right to choose. For in it – you can choose not to choose. Therein is the final judgment. The illusion ceases and you awaken from your dream, now the healing begins. With an all-knowing mind made in God’s image you can create as your creator – God intended. With Love, Honor and Respect for every living thing in the universe separation ceases and we all become one being, singing the one song…

http://saintheron.com/news/listen-to-princes-powerful-interlude-to-one-song/


namirha

Re: Re: science or religion?
« Reply #5, on August 22nd, 2017, 06:43 AM »Last edited on August 22nd, 2017, 06:46 AM


CORAL CASTLE
http://www.labyrinthina.com/ed.htm

CAPTRET
http://open-source-energy.org/?topic=1637.msg34610#msg34610

For instance man has cast rage out of himself into the LION, and this, on the other hand, when ennobled by him, can lead him upward to his higher self. Passion should not be annihilated, but purified. The negative pole must be led upwards to a higher stage. This purifying of passion, this...was called by the Pythagoreans catharsis.
http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/GA093a/English/RSP1982/19051001p01.html

Thus in the case of the lion man must say to himself: That art thou. We have therefore in the kingdom of the warm-blooded animals spread out before us the kama-rupic human being. Previously there only existed the pure man: Adam Cadmon.

The mineral kingdom in its present state of separation only came into existence during the Fourth Round. After this, the entire mineral kingdom will be spiritualised by man. He transforms it with the ‘plough of his spirit’... In the Fourth Round man can work upon the mineral kingdom in this way. With the plant, on the contrary, he can as yet do nothing of this kind. The whole mineral kingdom will be transformed by man. To a great extent this will be brought about by oscillating electricity no longer requiring wires. Here man will be working right into the molecules and atoms. At the end of the Fourth Round he will have transformed the entire mineral kingdom. 

http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/GA093a/English/RSP1982/19050929p01.html

Ancient Knowledge
Pt.4 The Real Secret Of How The Pyramids Were Built & Coral Castle
...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8BZ3VhX3YI

hgul

Re: science or religion?
« Reply #6, on August 22nd, 2017, 02:07 PM »
Brother, if you wish for a discussion of resurrection and the hereafter in simple and common language, in a straightforward style, then listen to the following comparison, together with my own soul.

Once two men were travelling through a land as beautiful as Paradise (by that land, we intend the world). Looking around them, they saw that everyone had left open the door of his home and his shop and was not paying attention to guarding it. Money and property were readily accessible, without anyone to claim them. One of the two travellers grasped hold of all that he fancied, stealing it and usurping it. Following his inclinations, he committed every kind of injustice and abomination. None of the people of that land moved to stop him. But his friend said to him:

"What are you doing? You will be punished, and I will be dragged into misfortune along with you. All this property belongs to the state. The people of this land, including even the children, are all soldiers or government servants. It is because they are at present civilians that they are not interfering with you. But the laws here are strict. The king has installed telephones everywhere and his agents are everywhere. Go quickly, and try to settle the matter."

But the empty-headed man said in his obstinacy: "No, it is not state property; it belongs instead to some endowment, and has no clear or obvious owner. Everyone can make use of it as he sees fit. I see no reason to deny myself the use of these fine things. I will not believe they belong to anyone unless I see him with my own eyes." He continued to speak in this way, with much philosophical sophistry, and an earnest discussion took place between them.

First the empty-headed man said: "Who is the king here? I can't see him," and then his friend replied:

"Every village must have its headman; every needle must have its manufacturer and craftsman. And, as you know, every letter must be written by someone. How, then, can it be that so extremely well-ordered a kingdom should have no ruler? And how can so much wealth have no owner, when every hour a train2 arrives filled with precious and artful gifts, as if coming from the realm of the unseen? And all the announcements and proclamations, all the seals and stamps, found on all those goods, all the coins and the flags waving in every corner of the kingdom — can they be without an owner? It seems you have studied foreign languages a little, and are unable to read this Islamic script. In addition, you refuse to ask those who are able to read it. Come now, let me read to you the king's supreme decree."

The empty-headed man then retorted: "Well, let us suppose there is a king; what harm can he suffer from the minute use I am making of all his wealth? Will his treasury decrease on account of it? In any event, I can see nothing here resembling prison or punishment."

His friend replied: "This land that you see is a manoeuvering ground. It is, in addition, an exhibition of his wonderful royal arts. Then again it may be regarded as a temporary hospice, one devoid of foundations. Do you not see that every day one caravan arrives as another departs and vanishes? It is being constantly emptied and filled. Soon the whole land will be changed; its inhabitants will depart for another and more lasting realm. There everyone will be either rewarded or punished in accordance with his services."

That treacherous empty-headed one retorted rebelliously: "I don't believe it. Is it at all possible that a whole land should perish, and be transferred to another realm?"
His faithful friend then replied: "Since you are so obstinate and rebellious, come, let me demonstrate to you, with twelve out of the innumerable proofs available, that there is a Supreme Tribunal, a realm of reward and generosity and a realm of punishment and incarceration, and that just as this world is partially emptied every day, so too a day shall come when it will be totally emptied and destroyed.

 First Aspect: Is it at all possible that in any kingdom, and particularly so splendid a kingdom as this, there should be no reward for those who serve obediently and no punishment for those who rebel? Reward and punishment are virtually non-existent here; there must therefore be a Supreme Tribunal somewhere else.

Ris

Re: Re: science or religion?
« Reply #7, on August 23rd, 2017, 10:12 AM »
Cute story I must admit,But there are is more holes than in Swiss cheese
do you really think that  Supreme Tribunal will care  for man made rules?




onepower

Re: Re: science or religion?
« Reply #8, on August 23rd, 2017, 07:23 PM »Last edited on August 23rd, 2017, 07:56 PM
The problem I have with Religion and Gods is the hypocrisy. Supposedly 80% of the population of this planet believes an all knowing all seeing God created the universe in a matter of 6 days. Yet when I say I believe I can extract useful amounts of energy from the environment these same people label me as a delusional crackpot. When I say I believe there must be more advanced life forms in this universe because of the sheer number of planets and the unimaginable size of the universe these people label me as a delusional crackpot. When I say there seems to be a overwhelming amount of proof we are slowly destroying this planet by way of pollution and global warming they call me a delusional crackpot. When I try to live by the words I read in the bible as a child, to be a good person, to treat others as I would have them treat me. Many of these people who claim to believe in god lie and cheat and steal and judge and knowingly inflict harm upon others and kill other people for no other reason than someone told them they should. I hope you can appreciate the sheer scale of the contradiction if not hypocrisy I see on a daily basis.

Another claim I cannot quite understand is that science and religion are somehow compatible with one another. As if to say I believe in science and facts and proof and the conservation of energy because I am a logical and intelligent person however I also believe an entity I call God created everything in the universe from nothing in no less than 6 days. Which begs the question, if something cannot be created from nothing which seems to have some weight among the intellectual then how can God do it?. Not simply a few KW from a device most cannot seem to understand but a whole universe full of trillions upon trillions upon trillions of stars not unlike our Sun which radiates more energy in 1 second than all of humanity has dissipated since it's very existence?.

I cannot rationalize how science and religion could be called compatible in any sense of the word. The contradiction is that if we believe the whole universe was created from nothing in six days by a God then logically we should have no right to judge anyone for believing anything one way or another because anything is possible. Free energy, anti-gravity, transmutation, cats living with dogs in supposed harmony... it is literally a free for all. Anything less is blatant hypocrisy in my opinion and if anything is possible then obviously anything is possible which is kind of cool in my opinion.










Matt Watts

Re: Re: science or religion?
« Reply #9, on August 23rd, 2017, 07:39 PM »
Lots of people believe in as well as worship

Gold
  Oil
    Drugs


No matter though, we'll all get what's coming to us in the end.

For now, a crackpot suits me just fine.

onepower

Re: Re: science or religion?
« Reply #10, on August 23rd, 2017, 09:22 PM »
Hey Matt
My point was that it is very easy to judge however if we are going to talk the talk then realistically we should walk the walk which doesn't appear to be the case in many instances. For instance how is it so many supposed men of god feel compelled to bugger little boys and destroy their lives and their families?. I am not a man of god nor can I say I believe one way or another however I do know the difference between FUBAR and not so much. Which begs the question how does one twist and distort what should be a moral belief into something vile and very much immoral?. What justification could one use which allows them to cross that line with an implied impunity?. Can one say if you do this you are going to hell but if I do it then it is somehow justified?... I think not.

Thus we come full circle to the twisted notion that if I believe in a god and an afterlife then I am in myself more god like than others thus eternal not unlike a god in myself. Thus to believe is to become a god outside the context of these quite shallow and stupid mere mortals walking this Earth .It sounds quite appealing to be honest and there is no need for skills nor intellect nor tangible proof that we can do anything in reality only that we believe. Drugs?, they pale in comparison because at some point one would think the effects would wear off but this is not the case with religion. You see we are all going to die at some point which appears inevitable however with religion we are promised an afterlife. A way to cheat death and in effect become a god in ourselves which explains the mass appeal to the elderly. Not unlike the CHIP mortgage, yes you too can sell out the capital in your home in exchange for debt and screw over your children in effect living forever through your children's suffering.

In the end there is only one synopsis clarified by one Forest Gump... Stupid is as stupid does.
It's not the saying nor believing so much but the doing and at the end of the day doing something good and tangible matters regardless of religion and beliefs or not. Either we do what we say and it has merit and value or were most likely peddling BS ... it's not rocket science.

hgul

Re: Re: science or religion?
« Reply #11, on August 24th, 2017, 12:21 AM »Last edited on August 24th, 2017, 12:29 AM
Quote from Ris on August 23rd, 2017, 10:12 AM
Cute story I must admit,But there are is more holes than in Swiss cheese
do you really think that  Supreme Tribunal will care  for man made rules?
FIRST TRUTH
The Gate of Dominicality and Sovereignty, the Manifestation of the Name of Sustainer
Is it at all possible that the glory of God's dominicality and His Divine sovereignty should create a cosmos such as this, in order to display His perfections, with such lofty aims and elevated purposes, without establishing a reward for those believers who through faith and worship respond to these aims and purposes? Or that He should not punish those misguided ones who treat His purposes with rejection and scorn?


Second Aspect: Look at the organization and administration of this kingdom! See how everyone, including the poorest and the weakest, is provided with perfect and ornate sustenance. The best care is taken of the sick. Royal and delicious foods, dishes, jewel encrusted decorations, embroidered garments, splendid feasts — all are to be found here. See how everyone pays due attention to his duties, with the exception of empty-headed people such as yourself. No one transgresses his bounds by as much as an inch. The greatest of all men is engaged in modest and obedient service, with an attitude of fear and awe. The ruler of this kingdom must possess, then, great generosity and all-embracing compassion, as well as, at the same time, great dignity, exalted awesomeness and honour. Now generosity requires liberality; compassion cannot dispense with beneficence; and awesomeness and honour make it imperative that the discourteous be chastised. But not even a thousandth part of what that generosity and awesomeness require is to be seen in this realm. The oppressor retains his power, and the oppressed, his humiliation, as they both depart and migrate from this realm. Their affairs are, then, left to the same Supreme Tribunal of which we speak.
SECOND TRUTH
The Gate of Generosity and Mercy, the Manifestation of the Names of Generous and Merciful
Is it at all possible that the Lord of this world, Who in His works demonstrates infinite generosity, infinite mercy, infinite splendour and infinite glory, should not give reward in a manner befitting His generosity and mercy, and not punish in a manner befitting His splendour and glory? If one looks at the disposition of affairs in this world, one sees that all animate beings —from the weakest to the most powerful— are given some fitting form of sustenance.7Indeed, the weakest and most powerless are given the best form of sustenance. This largesse and bounty is distributed with such lofty generosity that a hand of infinite generosity is manifestly at work.
For example, in the spring, all the trees are garbed in clothes as fine as silk, just like the houris in Paradise; they are encrusted with flowers and fruits, as if with jewels, and caused to offer us numerous varieties of the choicest fruits, on branches delicately outstretched like the hands of a servant. Similarly, we are given wholesome and sweet honey to eat, from the hand of the bee with its sting; we are clothed in the finest and softest of clothes by means of an insect that has no hands; and within a small seed a great treasure of mercy is preserved for us. It is self-evident that all of this is the effect of a most beauteous generosity, a most delicate sense of mercy.
Then, too, the fact that, with the exception of man and certain wild animals, all things, from the sun, the moon and earth to the smallest of creatures, perform their functions with the utmost exactitude, do not overstep their bounds by an inch, and observe a universal obedience in a spirit of great awe — this shows that they act by the command of a Possessor of great glory and dignity. It is also apparent that the fashion in which all mothers, in the vegetable, animal and human realms, succour their weak and powerless infants with the delicate nurture of milk, in tender compassion, is a manifestation of God's all-embracing mercy.8
Since the master of this world has, then, such infinite generosity, mercy, splendour and glory, it follows that His infinite glory and splendour require the chastisement of the discourteous; that His infinite generosity requires infinite bounty, and His infinite mercy requires a bestowal of favour worthy of itself. Now in this transitory world and brief life, only a millionth part of all this, like one drop from the ocean, establishes and manifests itself. There must therefore be a realm of blessedness appropriate to that generosity and worthy of that mercy. One would otherwise have to deny the existence of the mercy that is visible to us, and this would be like denying the existence of the sun that fills every day with its light. For irrevocable death would transform compassion into disaster, love into affliction, blessing into vengeance, intellect into a tool of misery, and pleasure into pain, so that the very essence of God's mercy would vanish.
There must in addition be a realm of punishment appropriate to God's glory and dignity. For generally the oppressor leaves this world while still in possession of his might, and the oppressed while still subjected to humiliation. These matters are therefore deferred for the attention of a supreme tribunal; it is not that they are neglected. It sometimes happens too that punishment is enacted in this world. The torments suffered by disobedient and rebellious peoples in previous centuries show that man is not left to his own devices, and that he is always subject to the blows that God's splendour and majesty may choose to inflict on him.
Is it at all possible that man should have the most important duty in all of creation and be endowed with the most important capacities; that man's Sus-tainer should make Himself known to him with all His well-ordered works, and man should then fail to recognize Him in return by way of worship — or that God should make Himself beloved of men through the numerous adorned fruits of His mercy, and man should then fail to make himself beloved of God through worship — or that God should demonstrate His love and mercy to man through His variegated bounties and man should then fail to respect Him with thanks and with praise — is it at all possible that man should remain unpunished, left to his own devices, or that that powerful Possessor of splendour and glory should not make ready for him a realm of requital?
Is it at all possible, on the other hand, that He should not prepare a realm of reward and eternal bliss for those believers who respond to the Merciful and Compassionate One's making Himself known by recognizing Him in faith; to His making Himself beloved by loving Him in worship; and to His mercy by offering thanks and veneration?
espect Him with thanks and with praise — is it at all possible that man should remain unpunished, left to his own devices, or that that powerful Possessor of splendour and glory should not make ready for him a realm of requital?
Is it at all possible, on the other hand, that He should not prepare a realm of reward and eternal bliss for those believers who respond to the Merciful and Compassionate One's making Himself known by recognizing Him in faith; to His making Himself beloved by loving Him in worship; and to His mercy by offering thanks and veneration?

Third Aspect: See with what lofty wisdom and ordering affairs are managed, and with what true justice and balance transactions are effected! Now a wise polity requires that those who seek refuge under the protecting wing of the state should receive favour, and justice demands that the rights of subjects be preserved, so that the splendour of the state should not suffer. But here in this land, not a thousandth part of the requirements of such wisdom and justice is fulfilled; for example, empty-headed people such as yourself usually leave this realm unpunished. So again we say, matters are postponed for the consideration of a Supreme Tribunal.
THIRD TRUTH
The Gate of Wisdom and Justice, the Manifestation of the Names of Wise and Just
Is it at all possible9 that the Lord of Glory, Who demonstrates His dominical sovereignty in the wisdom and order, the justice and equilibrium that pervade all things, from the atom to the sun, should not bestow favour on those believers who seek refuge beneath the protective wing of His dominicality, who believe in His Wisdom and Justice, and whose acts are for the purpose of worshipping Him?
Again, is it possible that He should not chastise those rude and discourteous men who disbelieve in His wisdom and justice, and rebel against Him in insolence? Now not even a thousandth part of that wisdom and justice is exercised with respect to man, in this transient world; it is rather deferred. Most of the people of misguidance leave this world unpunished, and most of the people of guidance leave it unrewarded. All things are, then, postponed for a supreme tribunal, an ultimate bliss.
Yes, it is apparent that the Being Who controls this world does so in accordance with an infinite wisdom. Do you require a proof? It is the preservation of interest and benefit in all things. Do you not see that numerous wise benefits are intended in all the limbs, bones and veins of man, even in the cells of his brain and in every particle of his body? Do you not see that from certain limbs wise benefits are to be had as numerous as the fruits of a tree? All of this shows that matters are done in accordance with infinite wisdom. The existence of the utmost regularity in the making of all things is a proof of the same truth.
The compression of the exact programme of development of a beautiful flower into a minute seed, the inscription on a small seed by the pen of destiny of the scroll of deeds of a tree, its life-history and list of equipment, show that a pen of utmost wisdom is at work.
The existence of a high degree of fine artistry in all things proves that there exists also the impress of an infinitely Wise Maker. Further, the inclusion within the minute body of man of an index of all being, of the keys to all the treasuries of mercy, and of the mirrors of all the Divine Names, demonstrates the existence of wisdom within that infinitely fine artistry. Now is it at all possible that the wisdom that thus permeates the workings of dominicality should not wish eternally to favour those who seek refuge beneath the wing of dominicality and who offer obedience in faith?
Do you wish for a proof that all things are done with justice and balance? The fact that all things are endowed with being, given shape and put in their appropriate place in accordance with precise equilibrium and in appropriate measure, shows that all matters are done in accordance with infinite justice and balance.
Similarly, the fact that all things are given their rights in accordance with their disposition, that they receive all the necessities of their being and all the requirements of life in the most fitting form — this too is the sign left by a hand of infinite justice.
Again, the fact that answer is always given to every petition and request made by the tongue of disposition, and of natural need or necessity, demonstrates the existence of infinite justice and wisdom.
Now is it at all possible that the justice and wisdom that hasten to relieve the pettiest need of the smallest of creation should fail to provide immortality, the greatest need of man, the greatest of creatures? That it should fail to respond to his greatest plea and cry for assistance? Or that it should not preserve the dignity of God's dominicality by preserving the rights of His servants? Man, whose life is so brief, cannot experience the true essence of justice in this transient world; it is for this reason that matters are postponed for a supreme tribunal. For true justice requires that man, this apparently petty creature, should be rewarded and punished, not in accordance with his pettiness, but in accordance with the magnitude of his crime, the importance of his nature and the greatness of his function. Since this passing and transient world is far from manifesting such wisdom and justice for man, who is created for eternity, of necessity there will be an eternal Hell and everlasting Paradise of that Just and Awesome Possessor of Beauty, that Wise and Beauteous Possessor of Awe.
FOURTH TRUTH
The Gate of Generosity and Beauty, the Manifestation of the Names of Generous and Beautiful
Is it at all possible that infinite generosity and liberality, inexhaustible riches, unending treasures, peerless and eternal beauty, flawless and everlasting perfection, should not require the existence of grateful supplicants, yearning spectators and astounded onlookers, all destined to stay an eternity in an abode of bliss, a place of repose? Yes, adorning the face of the world with all these objects of beauty, creating the moon and the sun as its lamps, filling the surface of the earth with the finest varieties of sustenance and thus making it a banquet of bounty, making fruit-trees into so many dishes, and renewing them several times each season — all this shows the existence of infinite generosity and liberality. Such unending liberality and generosity, such inexhaustible treasures of mercy, require the existence of an abode of repose, a place of bliss, that shall be everlasting and contain all desirable objects within it. They also require that those who enjoy such bliss should remain in that abode of repose eternally, without suffering the pain of cessation and separation. For just as the cessation of pain is a form of pleasure, so too the cessation of pleasure is a form of pain, one that such infinite generosity is unwilling to countenance. It requires, then, the existence both of an eternal paradise and of supplicants to abide in it eternally.
Infinite generosity and liberality desire to bestow infinite bounty and infinite kindness. The bestowal of infinite bounty and infinite kindness require in turn infinite gratitude. This necessitates the perpetual existence of those who receive all the kindness so that they can demonstrate their thanks and gratitude for that perpetual bestowal and constant bounty. A petty enjoyment, made bitter by cessation, and lasting for only a brief time, is not compatible with the requirements of generosity and liberality.
Look too at the different regions of the world, each like an exhibition where God's crafts are displayed. Pay attention to the dominical proclamations in the hands of all the plants and animals on the face of the earth10 and listen to the prophets and the saints, the heralds of the beauties of dominical-ity. They unanimously display the flawless perfections of the Glorious Maker by demonstrating His miraculous arts, and thus invite the gazes of men.
The Maker of this world has, then, most important, astounding and secret perfections. It is these He wishes to display by means of His miraculous arts. For secret, flawless perfection wishes to be manifested to those who will appreciate, admire and wonderingly gaze at it. Eternal perfection requires eternal manifestation. Such eternal manifestation in turn requires the perpetual existence of those who are to appreciate and admire it. The value of perfection will always sink in the view of its admirer if he is devoid of perpetual existence.11 Again, the beauteous, artistic, brilliant and adorned creatures that cover the face of the globe, bear witness to the fairness of a peerless, transcendent beauty, and indicate the subtle charms of an unparalleled, hidden pulchritude, just as sunlight bears witness to the sun.12 Each manifestation of that sacred, transcendent beauty, indicates the existence of countless hidden treasures in each of God's Names. Now so exalted, peerless and hidden a beauty, just as it desires to view its own fairness in a mirror and to behold the degrees and measures of its beauty in an animate reflection, desires also to become manifest, in order to look on its own beauty through the eyes of others. That is, it wishes to look at its own beauty in two ways; firstly, by beholding itself in mirrors of variegated colour; secondly, through the gaze of yearning witnesses to itself, of bewildered admirers of its beauty.
In short, beauty and fairness desire to see and be seen. Both of these require the existence of yearning witnesses and bewildered admirers. And since beauty and fairness are eternal and everlasting, their witnesses and admirers must have perpetual life. An eternal beauty can never be satisfied with transient admirers. An admirer condemned to irreversible separation will find his love turning to enmity once he conceives of separation. His admiration will yield to ridicule, his respect to contempt. For just as obstinate man is an enemy to what is unknown to him, so too he is opposed to all that lies beyond his reach, and love that is not infinite will respond to a beauty that deserves unending admiration with implicit enmity, hatred and rejection. From this we understand the profound reason for the unbeliever's enmity to God.
So endless generosity and liberality, peerless fairness and beauty, flawless perfection — all these require the existence of eternally grateful and longing supplicants and admirers. But we see in this hospice of the world that everyone quickly leaves and vanishes, having had only a taste of that generosity, enough to whet his appetite but not to satiate him, and having seen only a dim light coming from the perfection, or rather a faint shadow of its light, without in any way being fully satisfied. It follows, then, that men are going toward a place of eternal joy where all will be bestowed on them in full measure.
In short, just as this world, with all its creatures, decisively demonstrates the existence of the Glorious Maker, so too do His sacred attributes and Names indicate, show and logically require, the existence of the hereafter.






hgul

Re: Re: science or religion?
« Reply #12, on August 24th, 2017, 12:52 AM »Last edited on August 24th, 2017, 01:48 AM
Quote from onepower on August 23rd, 2017, 07:23 PM
The problem I have with Religion and Gods is the hypocrisy. Supposedly 80% of the population of this planet believes an all knowing all seeing God created the universe in a matter of 6 days. Yet when I say I believe I can extract useful amounts of energy from the environment these same people label me as a delusional crackpot. When I say I believe there must be more advanced life forms in this universe because of the sheer number of planets and the unimaginable size of the universe these people label me as a delusional crackpot. When I say there seems to be a overwhelming amount of proof we are slowly destroying this planet by way of pollution and global warming they call me a delusional crackpot. When I try to live by the words I read in the bible as a child, to be a good person, to treat others as I would have them treat me. Many of these people who claim to believe in god lie and cheat and steal and judge and knowingly inflict harm upon others and kill other people for no other reason than someone told them they should. I hope you can appreciate the sheer scale of the contradiction if not hypocrisy I see on a daily basis.
For despite the earth's smallness and insignificance in relation to the heavens, its being filled with intelligent beings and from time to time being emptied and then refilled with new ones suggests —indeed, states clearly— that the heavens too, with their majestic constellations like adorned palaces, are filled with animate creatures, the light of the light of existence, and conscious and intelligent creatures, the light of animate creatures. Like man and the jinn, those creatures are spectators of the palace of the world, and ponderers over the book of the universe, and heralds of this realm of dominicality. With their universal and com prehensive worship, they represent the glorification of the large and universal beings in the universe. The nature of the universe surely points to their existence. For since it is embellished and decked out with uncountable numbers of finely adorned works of art and meaningful decorations and wise embroideries, it self-evidently requires the gazes of thoughtful admirers and wondering, appreciative lovers; it demands their existence. Yes, just as beauty requires a lover, so is food is given to the hungry. Thus, the sustenance of spirits and nourishment of hearts in this boundless beauty of art looks to the angels and spirit beings; it points to them. For while this infinite adornment requires an infinite duty of contemplation and worship, man and the jinn can perform only a millionth of that infinite duty, that wise supervision, that extensive worship. This means that boundless varieties of angels and spirit beings are necessary to perform those duties, and to fill and inhabit the mighty mosque of the world with their ranks.
Indeed, a species of the spirit beings and angels is present in every aspect, in every sphere, of the universe, each charged with a duty of worship. It may be said according to both the narrations of Hadiths and the wisdom in the order of the world that from lifeless planets and stars to raindrops, all are ships or vehicles for a kind of angel. The angels mount these vehicles with Divine permission and travel observing the Manifest World; they represent their praise and glorification.
It also may be said that certain sorts of living bodies act as aeroplanes for different kinds of spirits. From the birds of Paradise, called the Green Birds in a Hadith which says: "The spirits of the people of Paradise enter into Green Birds in the Intermediate Realm and travel around Paradise in them,"3 to flies, each is a vehicle for a sort of spirit. The spirits enter into them at a Divine command, and through the faculties and senses of those living bodies like the eyes and ears, observe the miracles of creation in the corporeal world. They perform the particular glorification of each.
Just as reality necessitates it to be thus, so does wisdom. For, with an intense activity, the All-Wise Maker continuously creates subtle life and luminous intelligent beings from dense earth, which has little connection with spirit, and from turbid water, which has small relation with the light of life. He surely then creates certain sorts of intelligent beings from the seas of light and even from the oceans of darkness, from the air, electricity, and other subtle matter suitable for spirit and appropriate for life. And surely these creatures are exceedingly numerous.
There were two men, one rustic and uncouth, the other civilized and intelligent, who made friends and went to a splendid city like London. In a distant corner of that civilized and magnificent city they came across a dirty, wretched little building, a factory. They looked and saw that the strange factory was full of miserable, impoverished men working. All around the building were beings with spirits and animate beings, but their means of livelihood and conditions of life were such that some were herbivorous, they lived only on plants, while others were piscivorous, they ate nothing but fish.
The two men watched the scene. Then they saw in the distance thousands of adorned palaces and lofty castles. Among the palaces were spacious workshops and broad squares. Because of either the distance, or the defec-tiveness of the men's eyesight, or because they had hidden themselves, the inhabitants of the palaces were not visible to the two men. Moreover, the wretched conditions in the factory were not to be seen in the palaces. In consequence of this, the uncouth country-bumpkin, who had never before seen a city, declared: "Those palaces have no inhabitants, they are empty, there are no beings with spirits in them," uttering the most ignorant garbled nonsense. To which the second man replied:
"O you miserable man! This insignificant little building you see here has been filled with beings endowed with spirits, with workers, and there is someone who continually employs and replaces them. Look, there is not an empty space all around this factory, it has been filled with animate beings and beings with spirits. Do you think it is at all possible that there would be no high-ranking and suitable inhabitants in that orderly city, in those wisely adorned palaces so full of art which we can see in the distance? Of course they are occupied, and the different conditions of life there are appropriate for those who live there. In place of grass, they eat pastries, and in place of fish, cakes. Their not being visible to you because of the distance, or your weak eyesight, or their hiding themselves, can at no time point to their not being there." The fact that a thing is not seen does not indicate its nonexistence.
Quote from onepower on August 23rd, 2017, 07:23 PM
Another claim I cannot quite understand is that science and religion are somehow compatible with one another. As if to say I believe in science and facts and proof and the conservation of energy because I am a logical and intelligent person however I also believe an entity I call God created everything in the universe from nothing in no less than 6 days. Which begs the question, if something cannot be created from nothing which seems to have some weight among the intellectual then how can God do it?. Not simply a few KW from a device most cannot seem to understand but a whole universe full of trillions upon trillions upon trillions of stars not unlike our Sun which radiates more energy in 1 second than all of humanity has dissipated since it's very existence?.

I cannot rationalize how science and religion could be called compatible in any sense of the word. The contradiction is that if we believe the whole universe was created from nothing in six days by a God then logically we should have no right to judge anyone for believing anything one way or another because anything is possible. Free energy, anti-gravity, transmutation, cats living with dogs in supposed harmony... it is literally a free for all. Anything less is blatant hypocrisy in my opinion and if anything is possible then obviously anything is possible which is kind of cool in my opinion.
Also, the One Who will bring it about is powerful to the utmost degree. There is no deficiency in His power. The greatest things and the smallest are the same in relation to His power. It is as easy for Him to create the spring as to create a flower. Yes, One so powerful that this world together with all its suns, stars, worlds, particles, and substance bear witness to His sublimity and power with endless tongues. Does any doubt or misgiving have the right to consider bodily resurrection remote from such a power?

It is plain to see that every age within this world an Ail-Powerful One of Glory creates a new, travelling, orderly universe. Indeed, He makes a new, well-ordered world each day. He perpetually creates and changes with perfect wisdom transient worlds and universes one after the other on the face of the heavens and the earth. He hangs on the string of time regular worlds to the number of the centuries, years, indeed, days, and through them demonstrates the tremendousness of His power. He attaches to the head of the globe the huge flower of spring which he adorns with a hundred thousand embroideries of resurrection as though it was a single flower, and through it displays the perfection of His wisdom and the beauty of His art. Can it be said of such a One, "How can He bring about the resurrection of the dead, and how can He transform this world into the hereafter?"

 The verse,
Your creation and your resurrection is but like a single soul
proclaims the All-Powerful One's perfect power, that nothing at all is difficult for Him, that like the smallest thing, the greatest presents no difficulties for His power, and that it is as easy for His power to create innumerable individuals as to create as a single one.


We have explained the verse's essential meaning briefly in the Conclusion to the Tenth Word, and in detail in the treatise entitled Nokta (The Point), and in the Twentieth Letter. In connection with the discussion here, we shall elucidate a part of it in the form of three 'Matters', as follows:
Divine Power is essential, in which case, impotence cannot intervene in it. Also, it is connected to the inner dimensions of things, so obstacles cannot become interpenetrated with it. Also, its relation is according to laws, so particulars are equal to universals, minor things are like comprehensive ones. We shall prove these three matters.

FIRST MATTER: Pre-Eternal Power is the necessary inherent quality of the Most Pure and Holy Divine Essence. That is to say, it is of necessity intrinsic to the Essence, it can in no way be separated from It. Since this is so, the Essence which necessitates that power clearly cannot be affected by impotence, the opposite to power. For if that were the case, it would entail the combining of opposites. Since the Essence cannot be affected by impot-ence, self-evidently it cannot intervene in the power which is the inherent quality of that Essence. Since impotence cannot intervene in that essential power, clearly there can be no degrees in it. For the degrees of existence of a thing are though the intervention of its opposites.

For example, the degrees of heat are through the intervention of cold, and the degrees of beauty through the intervention of ugliness; further examples can be made in the same way. Since in contingent beings these qualities are not true, natural, and inherent, necessary qualities, their opposites may enter them. With the existence of degrees, diversity, variance, and change arose in the world. Since there can be no degrees in Pre-Eternal power, of necessity, those things decreed by it will be the same in relation to it. The greatest will be equal to the smallest, and particles the same as the stars. The resurrection of all mankind will be as easy for that power as the raising to life of a single individual; the creation of spring as easy as the giving of form to a single flower. Whereas if attributed to causes, the creation of a single flower would be as difficult as the spring.

It has been proved in the footnote to the last section of the Fourth Degree of 'God is Most Great' in the Second Station of this Word, and in the Twenty-Second Word, and in the Twentieth Letter and in its Addendum, that when the creation of beings is attributed to the Single One of Unity, all things become as easy as one thing. If they are attributed to causes, the creation of a single thing becomes as difficult and problematical as that of all things.

SECOND MATTER: Divine power is related to the inner face of things. Yes, the universe has two faces like a mirror. One is its external face, which resembles the coloured face of the mirror, the other is its face which looks to its Creator. This resembles the mirror's shining face. Its external face is the arena of opposites. It is where matters like beautiful and ugly, good and evil, big and small, difficult and easy appear. It is because of this that the All-Glorious Maker has made apparent causes a veil to the disposal of His power, so that the hand of power should not appear to the mind to be directly concerned with matters that on the face of it are insignificant or unworthy. For majesty and dignity require it to be thus. But He did not give a true effect to causes and intermediaries, because the unity of oneness requires that they have none.

As for the face of beings which looks to its Creator, in everything it is shining, it is clean. The colours and distortions of individuality do not intervene in it. This aspect faces its Creator without intermediary. There are no chains and disposition of causes in it. Cause and effect cannot intrude on it. It contains nothing contorted or askew. Obstacles cannot interfere in it. A particle becomes brother to the sun.

In Short: Divine power is both simple, and infinite, and essential. The place connected to Divine power has neither intermediary, nor stain, nor is it the scene of rebellion. Therefore, within the sphere of Divine power great does not take pride of place over small. The community does not take preference over the individual. Universals cannot expect more from Divine power than particulars.

THIRD MATTER: Divine power's relation is according to laws. That is to say, it regards many and few, great and small as the same. We shall make this abstruse matter easier to understand with a number of compari-sons.
In the universe, Transparency, Reciprocity, Balance, Order, Disengaged-ness, and Obedience are all matters which render many equal to few, and great equal to small.


First Comparison: This explains the Mystery of Transparency.

For example, the sun's image and reflection, which are its radiance and manifestation, display the same identity on the sea's surface and in every drop of the sea. If the globe of the earth was composed of varying fragments of glass and exposed to the sun without veil, the sun's reflection would be the same in every fragment and on the whole face of the earth, without obstruction or being divided into pieces or being diminished. If, let us suppose, the sun acted with will and through its will conferred the radiance of its light and image of its reflection, it would not be more difficult for it to confer its radiance on the whole surface of the earth than to confer it on a single particle.

Second Comparison: This concerns the Mystery of Reciprocity.
For example, let us suppose there is a vast ring composed of living beings, that is, of human beings, each holding a mirror. At its centre is an individual holding a candle. The radiance and manifestation reflected in all the mirrors surrounding the central point will be the same, and its relation will be without obstacle, fragmentation or being diminished.

Third Comparison: This concerns the Mystery of Balance.
For example, there are an enormous set of scales which are extremely accurate and sensitive. Whichever of two suns or two stars or two mountains or two eggs or two particles are placed in its two pans, it will require the same force to raise one pan of those huge sensitive scales to the sky and lower the other to the ground.

Fourth Comparison: This concerns the Mystery of Order.
For example, a huge ship can be turned as easily as a tiny toy boat.

Fifth Comparison: This concerns the Mystery of Disengagedness.
For example, a nature disengaged from individuality regards all particulars from the smallest to the greatest as the same and enters them without being diminished or fragmented. The qualities present in the aspect of external individuality do not interfere and cause confusion; they do not alter the view of a disengaged nature such as that. For example, a fish like a needle possesses such a disengaged nature the same as a whale. Or a microbe bears an animal nature the same as a rhinoceros.

Sixth Comparison: This demonstrates the Mystery of Obedience.

For example, a commander causes a single private to advance with the command "Forward march!" the same as he causes an army to advance. The truth of the mystery of this comparison about obedience is as follows:

As is proved by experience, everything in the universe has a point of perfection, and everything has an inclination towards that point. Increased inclination becomes need. Increased need becomes desire. Increased desire becomes attraction, and attraction, desire, need, and inclination are each seeds and kernels which together with the essences of things conform to the creative commands of Almighty God. The absolute perfection of the true nature of contingent beings is absolute existence. Their particular perfections are an existence peculiar to each which makes each being's abilities emerge from the potential to the actual. Thus, the obedience of the whole universe to the Divine command "Be!" is the same as that of a particle, which is like a single soldier. Contained all together in the obedience and conformity of contingent beings to the pre-eternal command of "Be!" proceeding from the Pre-Eternal will are inclination, need, desire, and attraction, which are also manifestations of Divine will. The fact that when subtle water receives the command to freeze, with a refined inclination it may split a piece of iron demonstrates the strength of the mystery of obedience.
If these six comparisons are observed in the potentialities and actions of contingent beings, which are both defective, and finite, and weak, and have no actual effect, without doubt it will be seen that everything is equal in relation to Pre-Eternal power, which is both pre-eternal, and post-eternal, and creates the whole universe out of pure non-existence, and being manifested through the works of its tremendousness leaves all minds in wonderment. Nothing at all can be difficult for it. Such a power cannot be weighed on the small scales of these mysteries, neither are they proportionate. They have been mentioned to bring the subject closer to the understanding and to dispel any doubts.

Result and Summary of the Third Fundamental Point:

Since pre-eternal power is infinite, and it is the inherent, necessary quality of the Most Pure and Holy Essence; and since the stainless, veilless inner aspect of everything is turned to it and faces it, and is in balance with respect to contingency, which consists of the equal possibility of being and non-being; and since this inner face is obedient to the order of creation and the Divine laws of the universe which form the Greater Shari'a, the Shari'a of Creation, and it is disengaged from and free of obstacles and different characteristics; certainly, like the smallest thing, the greatest cannot resist that power, nor expect more from it than the smallest. In which case, the raising to life of all beings with spirits at the resurrection is not more difficult for Divine power than raising a fly to life in the spring. Thus, the decree of:
Your creation and your resurrection is but like a single soul
is no exaggeration; it is true and correct. And our claim that "the Agent possesses the power" has been proved true in decisive fashion; there is nothing to hinder it in this respect.



Ris

Re: Re: science or religion?
« Reply #13, on August 24th, 2017, 11:14 AM »
nice-Since you know what God has created
tell me whether God created, Poor, weak,oppressed,servants,kings ,rich ,privileges,wealth,Wars and hunger,Jealousy, envy etc.







hgul

Re: science or religion?
« Reply #14, on August 24th, 2017, 11:33 AM »
this is most important question. please wait a minute


hgul

Re: science or religion?
« Reply #16, on August 25th, 2017, 04:51 PM »Last edited on August 25th, 2017, 05:04 PM
The creation of evil is not evil, the 'acquisition' of or desire for evil, rather, is evil. For creation and bringing into existence look to all the consequences, whereas such desire looks to a particular result, since it is a particular relation. For example, there are thousands of consequences of rain falling, and all of them are good. If through mischoice, some people receive harm from the rain, they cannot say that the creation of rain is not mercy, they cannot state that the creation of rain is evil. For it is due to their mischoice and inclination that it is evil for them. Also, there are numerous benefits in the creation of fire, and all of them are good. But if some people receive harm from fire through their misuse of it and their wrong choice, they cannot say that the creation of fire is evil; because it was not only created to burn them. Rather, they thrust their hands into the fire while cooking the food through mischoice, and made that servant inimical to themselves.

    In Short: The lesser evil is acceptable for the greater good. If an evil which will lead to a greater good is abandoned so that a lesser evil should not be, a greater evil will then have been perpetrated. For example,  to amputate a finger which is infected with gangrene and has to be amputated is good and right, although it is apparently an evil. For if it is not amputated, the hand will be amputated, and that would be a greater evil.

   Thus, the creation and bringing into existence of evils, harms, tribulations, satans, and harmful things, is not evil and bad, for they are created for the many important results they yield.




Plaintive ill person! It is your right, not to complain, but to offer thanks and be patient. For your body and members and faculties are not your property. You did not make them, and you did not buy them from other workshops. That means they are the property of another. Their owner has disposal over his property as he wishes.

An extremely wealthy and skilful craftsman, for example, employs a poor man as a model in order to show off his fine art and valuable wealth. In return for a wage, for a brief hour he clothes the poor man in a bejewelled and most skilfully wrought garment. He works it on him and gives it various states. In order to display the extraordinary varieties of his art, he cuts the garment, alters it, and lengthens and shortens it. Does the poor man working for a wage have the right to say to that person: "You are causing me trouble, you are causing me distress with the form you have given it, making me bow down and stand up;" has he the right to tell him that he is spoiling his fine appearance by cutting and shortening the garment which makes him beautiful? Can he tell him he is being unkind and unfair?

   O sick person! Just like in this comparison, in order to display the garment of your body with which He has clothed you, bejewelled as it is with luminous faculties like the eye, the ear, the reason, and the heart, and the embroideries of His Most Beautiful Names, the All-Glorious Maker makes you revolve amid numerous states and changes you in many situations. Like you learn of His Name of Provider through hunger, come to know also His Name of Healer through your illness. Since suffering and calamities show the decrees of some of His Names, within those flashes

of wisdom and rays of mercy are many instances of good to be found. If the veil of illness, which you fear and loathe, was to be lifted, behind it you would find many agreeable and beautiful meanings.


As the term of the Eternally Besought One, 'the Most Beautiful Names' shows, all the Names of the All-Beauteous One of Glory are beautiful. Among beings, the most subtle, the most beautiful, the most comprehensive mirror of Eternal Besoughtedness is life. The mirror to the beautiful is beautiful. The mirror that shows the virtues of beauty becomes beautiful. Just as whatever is done to the mirror by such beauty is good and beautiful, whatever befalls life too, in respect of reality, is good. Because it displays the beautiful impresses of the Most Beautiful Names, which are good and beautiful.

   If life passes monotonously with permanent health and well-being, it becomes a deficient mirror. Indeed, in one respect, it tells of non-existence, non-being, and nothingness, and causes weariness. It reduces the life's value, and transforms the pleasure of life into distress. Because thinking he will pass his time quickly, out of boredom, a person throws himself either into vice or into amusements. Like a prison sentence, he becomes hostile to his valuable life and wants to kill it and make it pass quickly. Whereas a life that revolves in change and action and different states makes its value felt, and makes known the importance and pleasure of life. Even if it is in hardship and tribulation, such a person does not want his life to pass quickly. He does not complain out of boredom, saying, "Alas! The sun hasn't set yet," or, "it is still nighttime."

   Yes, ask a fine gentleman who is rich and idle and living in the lap of luxury, "How are you?" You are bound to hear a pathetic reply like: "The time never passes. Let's have a game of backgammon. Or let's find some amusement to pass the time." Or else you will hear complaints arising from worldly ambition, like: "I haven't got that; if only I had done such-and-such."

   Then ask someone struck by disaster or a worker or poor man living in hardship: "How are you?" If he is sensible, he will reply: "All thanks be to God, I am working. If only the evening did not come so quickly, I could have finished this work! Time passes so quickly, and so does life, they pass so quickly. For sure things are hard for me, but that will pass too. Everything passes quickly." He in effect says how valuable life is and how regretful he is at its passing. That means he understands the pleasure and value of life through hardship and labour. As for ease and health, they make life bitter and make it wanted to be passed.

   My brother who is sick! Know that the origin and leaven of calamities and evils, and even of sins, is non-existence, as is proved decisively and in detail in other parts of the Risale-i Nur. As for non-existence, it is evil. It is because monotonous states like ease, silence, tranquillity, and arrest are close to non-existence and nothingness that they make felt the darkness of non-existence and cause distress. As for action and change, they are existence and make existence felt. And existence is pure good, it is light.

   Since the reality is thus, your illness has been sent to your being as a guest to perform many duties like purifying your valuable life, and strengthening it and making it progress, and to make the other human faculties in your being turn in assistance towards your sick member, and to display various Names of the All-Wise Maker. God willing, it will carry out its duties quickly and depart. And it will say to good health: "Come, and stay permanently in my place, and carry out your duties. This house is yours. Remain here in good health."

Ris

Re: Re: science or religion?
« Reply #17, on August 26th, 2017, 01:34 AM »Last edited on August 26th, 2017, 06:02 AM by Matt Watts
Quote from Matt Watts on August 25th, 2017, 12:36 PM
Times up.  The answer is 42.
it would be good to have a few of his minutes
They say we're here to regain what we've lost.
I know for sure I've lost something.
As far as the things mentioned above are concerned They are all man made Poos,If you honestly ask God You can fix everything But first you start with yourself I have to admit, I have not seen such a hard job yet And I worked on various Poo.

Matt Watts

Re: Re: science or religion?
« Reply #18, on August 26th, 2017, 01:06 PM »
Yeah, what looks back at you in the mirror is the toughest job you'll ever have to deal with.  When it knows something, we ignore it; when it's clueless we have all the answers.  Funny how something could be so close and yet so far away at the same time.

What I have learned though is:  The quieter you become, the better you can hear.

hgul

Re: Re: science or religion?
« Reply #19, on August 29th, 2017, 10:07 AM »
Quote from Ris on August 26th, 2017, 01:34 AM
it would be good to have a few of his minutes
They say we're here to regain what we've lost.
I know for sure I've lost something.
As far as the things mentioned above are concerned They are all man made Poos,If you honestly ask God You can fix everything But first you start with yourself I have to admit, I have not seen such a hard job yet And I worked on various Poo.
Dear brother I have some other good stories if you want to think on them?

onepower

Re: Re: science or religion?
« Reply #20, on September 8th, 2017, 02:54 PM »
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What I have learned though is:  The quieter you become, the better you can hear.
I have come to believe the truth can generally stand on it's own two feet.

There is no need for endless debate or reference to it, no need to preach or convince or convert or prop it up like good salesmen often do. No need to profess our beliefs about it on every occasion to everyone we meet. If it cannot stand on it's own as being self-evident without the sales pitch then it's probably the furthest thing from the truth in my opinion.

Matt Watts

Re: Re: science or religion?
« Reply #21, on September 8th, 2017, 10:19 PM »
Just curious onepower, have you ever said that to LDS missionaries?

I have and you get "the dear in the headlights" for a response.  Then of course I ask that they come in and sit for a while.  "May I get you a glass of CDS?"

Always found it interesting how the "knowers" don't walk, they run from the truth.


jeremy gwilt

Re: Re: science or religion?
« Reply #22, on September 9th, 2017, 05:03 AM »
Quote from onepower on September 8th, 2017, 02:54 PM
I have come to believe the truth can generally stand on it's own two feet.

There is no need for endless debate or reference to it, no need to preach or convince or convert or prop it up like good salesmen often do. No need to profess our beliefs about it on every occasion to everyone we meet. If it cannot stand on it's own as being self-evident without the sales pitch then it's probably the furthest thing from the truth in my opinion.
this is one of the most coherent things i have read on these forums lately.


onepower

Re: Re: science or religion?
« Reply #24, on April 15th, 2018, 10:40 AM »Last edited on April 15th, 2018, 10:47 AM
It's interesting what Christopher Hitchens had to say on this subject.
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“Owners of dogs will have noticed that, if you provide them with food and water and shelter and affection, they will think you are god. Whereas owners of cats are compelled to realize that, if you provide them with food and water and shelter and affection, they draw the conclusion that they are gods.”
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“Beware the irrational, however seductive. Shun the 'transcendent' and all who invite you to subordinate or annihilate yourself. Distrust compassion; prefer dignity for yourself and others. Don't be afraid to be thought arrogant or selfish. Picture all experts as if they were mammals. Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence. Suspect your own motives, and all excuses. Do not live for others any more than you would expect others to live for you.”
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“One must state it plainly. Religion comes from the period of human prehistory where nobody—not even the mighty Democritus who concluded that all matter was made from atoms—had the smallest idea what was going on. It comes from the bawling and fearful infancy of our species, and is a babyish attempt to meet our inescapable demand for knowledge (as well as for comfort, reassurance and other infantile needs). Today the least educated of my children knows much more about the natural order than any of the founders of religion, and one would like to think—though the connection is not a fully demonstrable one—that this is why they seem so uninterested in sending fellow humans to hell.”
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“My own view is that this planet is used as a penal colony, lunatic asylum and dumping ground by a superior civilization, to get rid of the undesirable and unfit. I can't prove it, but you can't disprove it either.”