Common mode chokes see here:-
https://www.coilws.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=128

It is very interesting that you cannot overload a common mode choke even with 200 amps or more. There design is to trap unwanted currents travelling in circuitry by the use of two inductors and capacitors which are put to ground.
In my schematic you will see that normal ac current goes through the inductors and into the load in two directions as per a normal ac circuit. Common mode currents however travel in the same direction down both conductors and this energy loads both L1 and L2 simultaneously. This traps any common mode currents in the circuit. When the ac changes direction or stops, the two coils offload their collected common mode currents into the caps which in tern discharge it to ground. It is interesting to note that the chokes that collect common mode current are designed to be self resonant at the frequency or an harmonic of the common mode current frequency. Isn't that interesting?
What if Stans network is laced with common mode current and replicates a common mode choke but instead of putting it to ground he collects the energy in the caps? You can then see why he would add the diode because the diode would forward bias the inductor output after they collapse. Isn't that interesting? See lower drawing.
So in essence you could have a forward biased circuit where you could use a very small load in its normal current phase and operation, allows lots and lots of common mode currents to be trapped in resonant chokes which discharge into caps. Sound familiar?
Just saying.

http://www.hottconsultants.com/pdf_files/APEC-2002.pdf
More interesting reading. Switch mode power supplies create masses of common mode currents. Some of Stans schematics show such switching. Is Stan creating common mode currents in his switching circuitry then filtering them into current chokes and finally caps?

So to make this work, all you need to do is build a switchmode power supply making sure you keep the ac wires between each transformer stage wide apart to futher encourage common mode currents. The dirty switching of the bridge rectifier and transistors is what causes the currents. Transform your voltage into high tension and then measure what frequencies the common mode currents are peaking at which will probably be in the Mhz. Once you've estalished where they peak you can build two inductors that are resonant at that frequency. Everytime the transistor shuts down and we get zero voltage into the small load, the two inductors will collapse at their own self resonant frequency into the caps. Now why didn't we think of this before?

You could take any 50% duty cycle switchmode power supply that has a two inductor common mode choke, remove the circuit that shunts the collected current in the inductors to ground including its caps, put a bias diode like stans in the circuit then send the output of the chokes to a fuel cell.
All you would need is a shunting resistor across the output, that would be enough to collect enough of the common mode currents in the inductors.

Hey it's Nav, welcome back :-D
Interesting as always, thanks for sharing :thumbsup:

UPDATE: I've been reading University papers about filtering common mode currents from pulse driven motors and switchmode power supplies. The two inductors in their filtering circuits are tuned at the resonant frequency of the main harmonics or common mode currents and get this: THEY STEP CHARGE THE CAPACITORS AT THEIR OWN SELF RESONANT FREQUENCIES BEFORE THE CAPS DISCHARGE THE LOAD TO GROUND.
Ladies and gents, Meyer was charging his cells with harmonics not normal current. He's filtering the harmonics from his bridge rectifiers and transistors into his water fuel cells via a common mode current choke.

Stans circuit as it should look. The two inductors L1 and L2 are self resonant at the main common mode current frequency. When the switchmode power supply is powering the shunt resister at V1 of the pulsing stage, common mode currents are charging the two inductors L1 and L2 which is what we see in bog standard harmonic filtering. When those two inductors see a change in current because the main pulse changes to v0, instead of losing their voltage to ground as per normal common mode filtering, they collapse their voltage into the fuel cell at their self resonant frequency (Mhz). This step charges the cell on every phase. To stop the cell from conducting current or reaching dielectric breakdown, the adjustable spark gap sets the voltage maxima.
The cell can only ever spend what ever value the shunt resistor is set at plus what ever harmonic distortion is present. Its beautiful.
I think this really is the breakthrough, I really do and I can't see that it isn't to be honest.

I like where this is going :thumbsup:

Bookmark this thread because you are going to see history made.

I've already saved your post, made a PDF out of it.
Looking forward to what comes next ;-)

Right or wrong nav, this is great detective work!

Looking forward to a little video of yours explaining how this works in an actual demonstration.  Call it "The Busting the Doors Wide Open" video.  :)


Nav, if you would, check my thoughts here and see if we agree on a "mode" of operation:

The idea is to create noise spikes from the switching of transistors and other components.  We don't want to use much power in doing this so the duty cycle or pulse width should be very small.  Lets say the total average consumption is less than an amp at 12 volts.  Next, we collect these spikes via common mode chokes, rectify them with a diode (if they are not already unipolar spikes) and dump the energy into the water fuel cell, grounded on one side.  The main power source isn't grounded so there is no connection between it and the water fuel cell.  Essentially the power source is at a floating potential and can rise to extreme levels.  There really is no complete circuit, so obviously amps are restricted.  The only thing we need to be careful of is the dielectric breakdown of the insulation or flashover point on the actual common mode choke.  If it can go to 20,000 volts, then this will be the potential voltage we can have across the cell.

I must say, I like it nav if I'm seeing this correctly.

I put wrong video

Oh, and one other thing maybe to consider...

The diode upstream of the CMC...

It may only be there to create switching noise spikes.  It may not be really acting as a rectifier at all.

Quote from Ris on November 7th, 2015, 10:51 AM

I put wrong video

Without giving anything away Ris.  If you can just give a simple nod about Nav's idea, that would be really helpful for some of us.  ;)

Quote from Matt Watts on November 7th, 2015, 09:55 AM

Right or wrong nav, this is great detective work!

Looking forward to a little video of yours explaining how this works in an actual demonstration.  Call it "The Busting the Doors Wide Open" video.  :)


Nav, if you would, check my thoughts here and see if we agree on a "mode" of operation:

The idea is to create noise spikes from the switching of transistors.  We don't want to use much power in doing this so the duty cycle or pulse width should be very small.  Lets say the total average consumption is less than an amp at 12 volts.  Next, we collect these spikes via common mode chokes, rectify them with a diode and dump the energy into the water fuel cell, grounded on one side.  The main power source isn't grounded so there is no connection between it and the water fuel cell.  Essentially the power source is at a floating potential and since there is a diode in-place, the voltage can rise to extreme levels.  There really is no complete circuit, so obviously amps are restricted.  The only thing we need to be careful of is the dielectric breakdown of the insulation on the actual common mode choke.  If it can go to 20,000 volts, then this will be the potential voltage we can have across the cell.

I must say, I like it nav if I'm seeing this correctly.

We are currently investigating the harmonics from bridge rectifiers and switching transistors combined in switch mode power supplies.
Basically, what happens is that harmonics in their varying degrees from the 1st harmonic to the 35th effect the efficiency of switching transformers and their subsequent digital networks quite a lot. One of those harmonics is the dominant harmonic in American 60hz supplies. All of those particular harmonics are related to the 120hz output of a bridge rectifier in the US and 100hz in the UK. Switchmode power supplies in the US build common mode current chokes into their network to remove the dominant harmonic which causes common mode currents, this consists of a toroid that has two inductors which are resonant at the dominant frequency they wish to remove. When you place a shunt resistor or load across any switchmode supply, the chokes filter out the dominant harmonic and shunt it to ground through two capacitors. We strongly believe that Stan Meyer took such a device and instead of shunting the caps to ground he collected that energy into a larger apparatus. My research on this has already discovered that switchmode current mode chokes step charge capacitors in the exact same way as Stan's networks do. We believe there are also other harmonics caused by switching transistors that can be collected in the chokes. So basically we are going to utilize harmonics and instead of wasting them to ground, redirect them into a fuel cell. The cost of running such a device is the value of the shunt resistor or load you use and normal losses. I now strongly believe that the power trapped in common mode currents and their respective harmonics are what Stan Meyer was exploiting.
Work is beginning on finding the dominant harmonics and common mode currents at the moment. This can be done by anyone. All you have to do is find a switchmode power supply that has the toroid inductors and place a scope probe across those inductors. That will show you the frequency of the dominant harmonic and also the self resonant frequency of the inductor. Once you know that, the world is your oyster. There are common mode currents and harmonics on any system whether it be mains supply or your own generator or altinator.

Just to add, it may well be a combination of several harmonics that create the common mode currents we are looking for. Either way, they are trapped in the inductors and those inductors will always be self resonant at a sub harmonic or harmonic of the 60hz rectified supply.
In essence we are taking a 60hz supply and collecting all the echoes from rectifying it and trapping them in a current choke. Thats why Stan calls them resonant chokes, they do exactly as it says on the tin.

Also, here is something very interesting. I have all of Stan's schematics for all of his patents. You cannot find any device whatsoever that is designed to filter out harmonics, neither does he mention harmonics and common mode currents. Why?
If I was building a device to be as efficient as it could possibly be, my network would filter out unwanted harmonics and currents at some stage even in the VIC. Yet Stan totally ignores them, why?
Why would you ignore something that can ruin your network unless your network needed those harmonics to work? Think about it.
Stan is using the two most notorius devices known to man for creating terrible distortion of the voltage and signal which are bridge rectifiers and switching transistors yet he carries on with his switching networks without so much as a sniff of filtering. Just think about that.

I've never worked with grid mode but I will look out of curiosity

All we may have ever needed are these: common mode current chokes.

The only thing I would offer to those chokes:  Make sure they have really good insulation.  Don't wrap mag wire right on the core.  In those pictures I'd bet I could flashover with less than 1000 volts--no good.


So nav, I have a white-noise generator.  Do you suppose if I connected it to a big fast MOSFET and pulsed a resistive load by way of a well insulated common mode choke and used some high power pulse capacitors, do you think I might see something if I dump the capacitors into a simple water cell connected to ground?  Think it's worth a shot?

Quote from Matt Watts on November 7th, 2015, 04:27 PM

The only thing I would offer to those chokes:  Make sure they have really good insulation.  Don't wrap mag wire right on the core.  In those pictures I'd bet I could flashover with less than 1000 volts--no good.


So nav, I have a white-noise generator.  Do you suppose if I connected it to a big fast MOSFET and pulsed a resistive load by way of a well insulated common mode choke and used some high power pulse capacitors, do you think I might see something if I dump the capacitors into a simple water cell connected to ground?  Think it's worth a shot?

I was discussing options with a friend last night. Eric Dollard, TH Moray and Tesla talked about networks where current was at zero, impedance is very high and voltage takes over setting off towards infinity. Stan also mentions this kind of network. My friend suggested last night that if you have a situation where you have self resonant chokes which stop common mode currents at lets say for arguments sake a 2Mhz harmonic and are self resonant at that frequency; then why not ping them with 2Mhz of high voltage normal current? As I see it, you don't need to do that and it is much easier to filter common mode current than it is normal current. A common mode choke because of the flux cancellation can never overheat no matter what voltage is sat across it. It can never suffer flux overload because of the way it is configured and the fact common mode currents travel down two conductors in the same direction rather than a conventional loop. This gives it an advantage over conventional current.
Matt, my advice would be this: Create an high tention voltage of 600v via a switchmode design that incooperates a bridge rectifier and a switching transistor like Stans. Find out where the dominant harmonics are with a scope before they go into the VIC (we dont want any blown up scopes here).
Once you find where these harmonics are, build a common mode choke that is exactly resonant at that harmonic which is toroidal like pictured and add the bias diode. When you filter out the harmonics, you will create a zero current, high impedance where voltage theoritically sets off towards infinity because current = zero.
Normally, this energy is put to ground when the switching transformer is at V0 but you can send it to step charge a fuel cell, but always remember the safety factor with high voltage.
The best thing to do at this time also is to study switchmode power supplies in depth compared to Stans designs and gather as much information as you can concerning this. Study common mode choke operation and how they create a zero current, high impedance and infinite voltage situation.
Stay safe at all times. It is also interesting to note that in a switchmode power supply that is equipped with a common mode current choke that even when there is no load across the supply, the choke continues to filter out common mode current across its caps. Thats very interesting. May explain why Stans schematics never show a parallel load to the fuel cell, it may not need one. Common mode currents may well load up Stans two resonant chokes in a none conventional loop type manner. That remains to be seen.

Just to add: Remember that when the switching transistor is a V0 and the two resonant inductors begin to offload collected harmonics into a cell, there will come a point when the water will reach dielectric breakdown which is bad. Run a spark gap in parallel with the cell so that the spark gap will short out before the cell does.

Two modes of operation, mode one -  transistor switches on and causes harmonic noise which load up the inductors and pass through R4. This is the normal mode of operation and normal current passes. Mode two, high impedance, zero current infinite voltage condition: the transistors switch to off and the inductors ring at their own self resonant frequency into the cell, the cell is also resonant at that frequency. The cells consist of a dipole open ended antenna probably a quarter wave of the resonant frequency.

May be a few errors in the schematic but that is a bridge rectifier, i may have the diodes on it  mixed up.

Good Job Nav,
I'm thinking we talked about Common mode before here.
here is a link:

http://open-source-energy.org/?topic=876.msg16553#msg16553

have a good look and see what you think. any how, keep going, the only way to know it test!

~Russ