Distilled Water?

Heuristicobfuscation

Distilled Water?
« on March 3rd, 2014, 06:26 PM »Last edited on March 10th, 2014, 07:42 PM
Has anybody out there used Distilled Water? In the Stan Meyer Water Capacitor Array?

So far all of my personal experiments have been with Tap Water.

maybe most of the issues with the water shorting  has to do with all of the impurities in it?

what do you guys think?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Thanks to all of you for your input.I finaly went ahead and tested some of the above concerns.
very happy with the test results. the video is quite borring documenting results and stuff but if you go to the 12:06 mark
you will see the lab results.  let me know what you guys think....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8pqHN1KslM#

Gunther Rattay

Re: Distilled Water?
« Reply #1, on March 4th, 2014, 12:06 AM »
Quote from Heuristicobfuscation on March 3rd, 2014, 06:26 PM
Has anybody out there used Distilled Water? In the Stan Meyer Water Capacitor Array?

So far all of my personal experiments have been with Tap Water.

maybe most of the issues with the water shorting  has to do with all of the impurities in it?

what do you guys think?
correct. starting and getting it run properly with distilled water is a first step - the easy one. once that is figured out next step can be tap water.

haxar

Re: Distilled Water?
« Reply #2, on March 4th, 2014, 07:42 AM »Last edited on March 4th, 2014, 07:54 AM
I'd rather keep it simple.

My tap water on my TDS meter reads out to around 420-480 ppm of total dissolved solids or "dirt". The maximum "safe" limit for human consumption is known to be around 500 ppm. I wouldn't use that water in my cell nor would I drink or cook with it.

I'd only use distilled water. Any other water would have "dirt" in it aka. inorganic minerals, dissolved solids or electrolytes, even in spring water, bottled water and so called alkaline waters.

If you were to try brute force electrolysis on distilled water without any electrolyte, you would not get anywhere with gas production. Distilled is highly resistive to current. That is one unique characteristic of distilled. Distilled won't let you do brute force electrolysis but any other water will because of this "dirt" aiding in current draw in the cell. That goes along the lines of electrolyte being added to the water which is considered "dirt" as well.

If distilled is highly resistive to current for electrolysis to take place, then how can we have any gas production? I guess this is where Stan steps in. Stan's goal was to restrict current in his circuits and distilled does that well.

0-1 ppm is when you will know the water is distilled. A TDS meter can be helpful:

http://www.amazon.com/HM-Digital-TDS-EZ-Measurement-Resolution/dp/B002C0A7ZY


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09GEC0zzaZU#ws

Heuristicobfuscation

Re: Distilled Water?
« Reply #3, on March 4th, 2014, 04:48 PM »
Quote from haxar on March 4th, 2014, 07:42 AM
I'd rather keep it simple.

My tap water on my TDS meter reads out to around 420-480 ppm of total dissolved solids or "dirt". The maximum "safe" limit for human consumption is known to be around 500 ppm. I wouldn't use that water in my cell nor would I drink or cook with it.

I'd only use distilled water. Any other water would have "dirt" in it aka. inorganic minerals, dissolved solids or electrolytes, even in spring water, bottled water and so called alkaline waters.

If you were to try brute force electrolysis on distilled water without any electrolyte, you would not get anywhere with gas production. Distilled is highly resistive to current. That is one unique characteristic of distilled. Distilled won't let you do brute force electrolysis but any other water will because of this "dirt" aiding in current draw in the cell. That goes along the lines of electrolyte being added to the water which is considered "dirt" as well.

If distilled is highly resistive to current for electrolysis to take place, then how can we have any gas production? I guess this is where Stan steps in. Stan's goal was to restrict current in his circuits and distilled does that well.

0-1 ppm is when you will know the water is distilled. A TDS meter can be helpful:

http://www.amazon.com/HM-Digital-TDS-EZ-Measurement-Resolution/dp/B002C0A7ZY


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09GEC0zzaZU#ws
Thanks this pretty much motivates me to clean out all the tap water in the cell and try distilled water.
ive probably underestimated the amount of contaminates in the "tap water". this probably hindered my test considerably.

got to get me one of those TDS Meters!

Heuristicobfuscation

Re: Distilled Water?
« Reply #4, on March 4th, 2014, 05:05 PM »
Quote from bussi04 on March 4th, 2014, 12:06 AM
correct. starting and getting it run properly with distilled water is a first step - the easy one. once that is figured out next step can be tap water.
Quote from bussi04 on March 4th, 2014, 12:06 AM
Thanks,  whole idea acording to stan was to tap into the dielectric property of water that is as an insulator. but if we use contaminates than that would couse all sorts of havoc. my mindset was dont add electrolyte this will increase the amp consumption but just never realy tought or realized maybe the impact of the impurities of the tap water itself.

im leaning to wonder if when he mentioned we can "use tapwater,rainwater,snow, saltwater" etc. if he was specificly refering to the latest model of water injector wich was like just a drop of water inside the wave cavity. Versus the  WFC Exiter, but then again in the water video he shows water  coming of the tap of his house. unless it was filtered? Dont know..

Edward Mitchell

Re: Distilled Water?
« Reply #5, on March 4th, 2014, 08:44 PM »
Quote from Heuristicobfuscation on March 3rd, 2014, 06:26 PM
Has anybody out there used Distilled Water? In the Stan Meyer Water Capacitor Array?

So far all of my personal experiments have been with Tap Water.

maybe most of the issues with the water shorting  has to do with all of the impurities in it?

what do you guys think?
I use nothing but distilled water as it has the highest resistance which cuts the load being placed on the transformer so that it is able to reach high voltages without burning up from me trying to drive it too hard on the primary side. Just about all of my videos showing water being broken down has been done using distilled water. Here is one of my fav's as I got it to produce some really large bubbles using the 8xa circuit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW78gKn1ZZ0#

Enjoy!
Edward

Heuristicobfuscation

Re: Distilled Water?
« Reply #6, on March 6th, 2014, 05:49 PM »
Quote from Edward Mitchell on March 4th, 2014, 08:44 PM
I use nothing but distilled water as it has the highest resistance which cuts the load being placed on the transformer so that it is able to reach high voltages without burning up from me trying to drive it too hard on the primary side. Just about all of my videos showing water being broken down has been done using distilled water. Here is one of my fav's as I got it to produce some really large bubbles using the 8xa circuit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW78gKn1ZZ0#

Enjoy!
Edward
In the video "It runs on water"  Stan Meyers goes to his sink and poured out fresh tap water.
Do you think that water was filtered,distiled or just regular tap?

Matt Watts

Re: Distilled Water?
« Reply #7, on March 6th, 2014, 07:30 PM »Last edited on March 6th, 2014, 07:35 PM
I know if you really need distilled water, it takes 500 watts for 4 hours to distill one gallon of water in my machine.  That amount of energy could be a little difficult to get back from the combustion of Hydroxy.  But I guess the idea is to never waste the combustion products and reuse them, so you only have to do it once.

heatlocke

Re: Distilled Water?
« Reply #8, on March 6th, 2014, 08:12 PM »
Quote from Heuristicobfuscation on March 6th, 2014, 05:49 PM
In the video "It runs on water"  Stan Meyers goes to his sink and poured out fresh tap water.
Do you think that water was filtered,distiled or just regular tap?
He also says in the video " If you don`t have any you can use snow, If you don`t have any snow you can use sea water"  Now wouldn`t using salt water be against the Meyer golden rule of NO electrolyte ?

Edward Mitchell

Re: Distilled Water?
« Reply #9, on March 6th, 2014, 08:39 PM »
To answer both of your questions: It all has to do with impedance matching as if the resistance isn't in the water then from looking at what Meyer did that missing resistance must then be added to the transformer so that it works correctly. This is where the cost goes up drastically as the resistance wire cost a whole lot more than the copper wire and if you're like me winding these things by hand then you will also need to have that resistance wire made for you parallel bonded so that you can keep the precision needed to make the technology work as intended.

Now Meyer talked about using ocean water but I never seen him use it. All that is seen and known to us by videos and eyewitness is that he used water right from the tap. So we must assume that he had it dialed in perfectly in his transformer(s) to make up for the missing resistance that tap water has as compared to that of distilled water. I know to assume is bad but it's all we have at the moment and from my understanding that is what has to be done.

God Bless,
Edward

Matt Watts

Re: Distilled Water?
« Reply #10, on March 6th, 2014, 09:42 PM »
So the resistance factor isn't open-ended on one side?  Meaning if you had enough resistance in the chokes, could you use any type of water and make your adjustments with the uController instead of the wire?

Also, what about high voltage carbon wire?  Has anyone tried that?

What I'm getting at is a way to design this device to make it as fool-proof and as practical as possible.  Where it will end-up getting used will be far away from laboratory conditions.  It's like the difference between a Remington firearm and a Browning:  The Browning has most every critical part custom fitted for the specific weapon.  Whereas with Remingtons, you can pretty much interchange any part from one weapon to the other, tolerances have a lot more slop and forgiveness.  That's what we need here--loose tolerances so the device will work well within a wide range of conditions.  There must be a way to accomplish this.

Edward Mitchell

Re: Distilled Water?
« Reply #11, on March 6th, 2014, 10:49 PM »
Quote from Matt Watts on March 6th, 2014, 09:42 PM
So the resistance factor isn't open-ended on one side?  Meaning if you had enough resistance in the chokes, could you use any type of water and make your adjustments with the uController instead of the wire?

Also, what about high voltage carbon wire?  Has anyone tried that?

What I'm getting at is a way to design this device to make it as fool-proof and as practical as possible.  Where it will end-up getting used will be far away from laboratory conditions.  It's like the difference between a Remington firearm and a Browning:  The Browning has most every critical part custom fitted for the specific weapon.  Whereas with Remingtons, you can pretty much interchange any part from one weapon to the other, tolerances have a lot more slop and forgiveness.  That's what we need here--loose tolerances so the device will work well within a wide range of conditions.  There must be a way to accomplish this.
I'm not talking with you or will answer any questions that you have until you publicly apologize for this post: http://open-source-energy.org/?topic=876.msg24077#msg24077 as it's intent is to make it seem like I don't have a clue to what I am talking about so that others will tune me out based on your word when I was right on point and about to give a very big help to all that are working on this technology from my experience with it. Everything I was doing then and now is based on actual experiments and observations and you tried to make me sound like a fool who can't even keep up with the conversation.


Matt Watts

Re: Distilled Water?
« Reply #12, on March 7th, 2014, 08:59 PM »
Sorry Ed.  I should have directed the question to Bussi.

Jeff Nading

Re: Distilled Water?
« Reply #13, on March 9th, 2014, 06:00 PM »Last edited on March 9th, 2014, 06:07 PM
I can not believe what I am seeing here. I see nothing for Matt to apologize for :nono:, IF ANYTHING YOU NEED TO APOLOGIZE TO MATT FOR CALLING HIM A NAYSAYER. :cleaning:  Anything else you have to say about this and you will be placed under moderation once again.

Enrg4life

Re: Distilled Water?
« Reply #14, on March 9th, 2014, 07:25 PM »
It's seems to me when we discover whether the impurities either help or hinder the process of cracking the molecule more efficiently. Either way we will need to be able to keep the components clean. Try boiling off a quart of tap water  to nothing ,whether it is soft or hard water you will see all kinds of stuff in the bottom of the vessel.

heatlocke

Re: Distilled Water?
« Reply #15, on March 9th, 2014, 08:51 PM »
Quote from Enrg4life on March 9th, 2014, 07:25 PM
Try boiling off a quart of tap water  to nothing ,whether it is soft or hard water you will see all kinds of stuff in the bottom of the vessel.
You can take this one step farther. An old test the home water purifier salesman will often do is fill a clean quart mason jar full of tap water, well or spring water and place 2 electrodes from your 110 volt wall socket in the water and leave it for a half hour. The resulting green mung that floats to the top will amaze you. Now most can be attributed to algae and plant matter in the water but it is a good lesson on how much organic material can be in a freshly drawn sample out of a well, est. Certainly not what you would want to use in a water fuel cell.

Edward Mitchell

Re: Distilled Water?
« Reply #16, on March 9th, 2014, 10:57 PM »Last edited on March 9th, 2014, 11:03 PM
That's why I built in a filtration system on my exciter arrays as this way more sources of water can be used as the filter will clean things up a bit. Remember Meyer too had a filtering system in use with his exciter array.


But one thing we do know is that the more impurities in the water the less resistance it has if those impurities are metals, salts or other things like that. All I can tell you is that I prefer to use distilled or deionized water as it takes a lot of stress off of the transformer. Once I learn how to properly add in resistance wire perhaps one day I too will be able to make this technology work with saltwater from our many oceans. All I can do is hope, pray, and keep on testing and experimenting so that I can learn more and more about the many ways in which to make this technology work.

God Bless and be with all of us that give this technology a try,
Edward

Heuristicobfuscation

Re: Distilled Water?
« Reply #17, on March 10th, 2014, 07:24 PM »
Quote from Heuristicobfuscation on March 3rd, 2014, 06:26 PM
Has anybody out there used Distilled Water? In the Stan Meyer Water Capacitor Array?

So far all of my personal experiments have been with Tap Water.

maybe most of the issues with the water shorting  has to do with all of the impurities in it?

what do you guys think?
Thanks to all of you for your input.I finaly went ahead and tested some of the above concerns.
very happy with the test results. the video is quite borring documenting results and stuff but if you go to the 12:06 mark
you will see the lab results.  let me know what you guys think....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8pqHN1KslM#

haxar

Re: Distilled Water?
« Reply #18, on March 10th, 2014, 08:38 PM »
An analog amp meter up to 500 milliamps or 5 amps would be helpful. Stan never pulled as much as 20 amps.

Any other water that is not distilled will pull more amps. A TDS meter can obviously show that. The tap water Stan used, documented at around 11ppm (figure 7-15 of tech brief), obviously is not the tap water we use today when my meter reads it around 450-480ppm.

Yes, you get "less production" when using distilled water and that is a good sign. Stan's goal was not to pull any more amps (than what you get with distilled) and allow voltage to take over. Step up the pulse voltage to the cells and you can get better production.

Edward Mitchell

Re: Distilled Water?
« Reply #19, on March 10th, 2014, 11:27 PM »
Very nice experiment but I think you need to get more sensitive equipment. When I run my experiments I will always run the input voltage the same, note I am using the VIC transformer though, as for me this sets up a benchmark of progress with each transformer design. The cell is varied from time to time but I always take good detailed notes noting the temperature before during and after the experiments, voltage at the cell(s), and the amperage going into the primary plus the amps flowing through the cell. What this allows me to do is take percentage increases or decreases in the voltage being applied to the cell with varying transformer designs. As using the same input voltage allows me to see the changes in power consumption and power output of the many different transformers I build and test.

With your work I'd suggest wrapping a choke with about 600-1000 turns of 22 gauge wire bifilar placing a thin tape the same as Russ used between each layer as you wind the coil back and forth about the bobbin form. What this does is it allows a capacitance to build up between the layers of the transformer. This is good for when using the 8xa setup and you must wire the chokes in such a way that they are opposing one another magnetically as shown here: http://www.hereticalbuilders.com/showpost.php?p=8246&postcount=28 what you will find out is the waveform that you see will be duplicated (I hope you have a scope). It will look just about exactly as you see it in Stan's drawing. This set up is wired just the same as the VIC transformer is wound up minus the secondary and primary coils. Then if you are feeling confident you can add in a MOT like shown in the drawing, but do note that the voltages are going to start to get really high and you might want to protect your chokes by placing them in some sort of mineral oil or transformer oil to keep the air off of the coils for the air will start to ionize and short the chokes out.

Even I have to get a new amp meter as sometimes the amps flowing through the cell are around 0.010 amps and like you it's hard for me to read. We must take great care that we have the best equipment we can find to run our test with so we gather the most information we can from our experiments. A lot of times for me this has meant that I had to wait until I saved up the funds to buy a new meter, or piece of equipment, or the parts to run the next series of test with. It's what must be done if you are to get everything you can out of your experiments and for you to be able to improve your work and even start to make predictions as time goes on.
Enjoy! and I hope the information I provided helps in some small way. Good work :)
Edward

haiqu

Re: Distilled Water?
« Reply #20, on March 11th, 2014, 01:50 AM »Last edited on March 11th, 2014, 08:23 PM
Can't seem to buy distilled water here any longer. I've heard that demineralised water is fine.

Edward Mitchell

Re: Distilled Water?
« Reply #21, on March 11th, 2014, 10:56 AM »
Quote from haiqu on March 11th, 2014, 01:50 AM
Can't seem to buy distilled water here any longer. I've heard that deminerslised water is fine.
Yeah, it's one of those things we all have to deal with as what ever we use the missing resistance from the water must be made up in the chokes or secondary, still working on that. So, if you use the 8xa circuit then try making the chokes using resistance wire and compare the differences. Also it really helps to have a cell all wired up in series like the ones I sell or others like it that can be found in the internet. If you make your own build it as best you can to have each cell exactly the same for think about it this way, how large is a single water molecule?

For me I went from the 8xa circuit right into the voltage intensifier circuit transformer and I used distilled water for it has a high resistance and cuts the load seen by the secondary side of the transformer. The water that you have to use is what you have to work with so keep the thought in mind that you have lost resistance in the form of water so you must make up that lost resistance someplace else in the circuit by adding in some resistance. It's tricky and the material cost goes way up but that is what we have to do in order to reach the ionization threshold for the atoms or I guess it's better to say exciting the electrons to the point where they are easy to take away from the atoms or even be ejected by the atoms to break the bonds of the water molecules. The problem with water is it's resistance is temperature dependent so the way I see it we have to build a system that can control the temperature to a where it works best from our observations of the experiments we preform.

If one is unwilling to build or test anything then they really should just sit back and enjoy the show as they are not going to help those that are actually performing experiments for the information that those that are doing the work gain will be something they simply can't understand. Haipu it is simple if demineralized water is all you can get then that is what you have to work with so make the best of it through understanding that this is a impedance matched circuit but the parameters of the circuit are variable with the changes in temperature, metals, salts, and acids in the water, and understanding that some of these will build up in the water as more and more water is broken down for they will not go with the gases. We can do this but much care must be taken towards understanding the many different dynamics of a system such as this.

If you need to get some equipment then get it, if you need to buy something then buy it, if you need to build something then build it as there simply isn't any other way to go about solving this technology if something is missing that can aid your work in gathering all the information you can from your experiments. We can do this but we must be willing to spend some money, and do the work, or support those that are doing the work and stay out of their way and let them work with the support given.

Now a lot of what I said isn't aimed at you Haipu but to a lot of members on this site be them moderators or not. The science given by me and a few others is correct and will allow each and everyone of us to surpass the results that Meyer had gotten but you must do the work. I will not do it for you nor will most of the others as we simply can't afford to be building items and giving them away free of cost. I have been working at this since 2006 and in this time I have learned things the hard way by making use of the scientific method which is a nice way of asking and answering questions that gives results when followed if results are to be had for it will also show if something will not work.

People often don't know how to handle a person such as I am for I have done so many experiments that I really have left everyone far far behind from following the scientific method for all of these years. The soft form of suppression that I talk about sometimes is real and it is prevalent on just about all the forms and mostly it consist of someone doing nothing but thinking wanting their voice to trump those that are actually doing the work and talking about the results they are seeing and/or findings they are observing from their experiments. If you want an example of this you need look no further than the thread where secursupplies posted the interview of me taking at the Global BEM at the replies that followed. All talking about everything but what was being shown in real time for the very first time ever which was someone showing high voltages being applied to a water fuel capacitor while restricting the flow of amps. They wanted their voices to trump what was being shown in the video and if you read it is does make for some interesting reading but it does nothing to advance this technology as it is more or less a form of entertainment as best.

Now this thread hits right at the heart of what has been missing in a lot of peoples work in that water is a physical part of the voltage intensifier circuit (VIC) something that Meyer calls "Re." As you have seen water is dynamic in that it's resistance changes with respect to it's temperature, contaminates solvated in it, and metals leached out from the materials being used into it. The VIC is a complete isolated circuit that has this variable water as a part of it that we must all learn the hard way on just how to deal with it.







Now all of these equations start to mean something for the VIC is a complete circuit. Water's role is that of resistance for the most part but it also plays other roles in that it will align with electric field and it can take on a charge, plus has the ability to act as a dielectric liquid. But there is more as recent studies have shown it also has the ability to separate electrons and ions creating what is now being called and exclusion zone.

Water is an amazing substance as not only can it allow life on this planet to be great it can also sustain our way of life, cleanly, cheaply, and is in abundance on the surface of the earth that we may make use of it easily. All that has been posted on this site by me and a few others should allow anyone to make use of water as a source of fuel, but you are going to have to do the work, and foot the bill for your work. You are going to fail but each time that you do you learn something from it that helps you understand more about what you are wanting to do. It's the true of our nature we learn by failing as I am sure that none of us just got up and started walking perfectly the first time around as we failed many times but we learned from our mistakes and kept at it until we got it right. Learning this technology is no different as you will fail but each time that you do you can learn from it if you kept at it and eventually you will get it right.

I hope these points are well taken,
Edward

Heuristicobfuscation

Re: Distilled Water?
« Reply #22, on March 11th, 2014, 01:16 PM »Last edited on March 11th, 2014, 01:20 PM
Quote from Edward Mitchell on March 10th, 2014, 11:27 PM
Very nice experiment but I think you need to get more sensitive equipment. When I run my experiments I will always run the input voltage the same, note I am using the VIC transformer though, as for me this sets up a benchmark of progress with each transformer design. The cell is varied from time to time but I always take good detailed notes noting the temperature before during and after the experiments, voltage at the cell(s), and the amperage going into the primary plus the amps flowing through the cell. What this allows me to do is take percentage increases or decreases in the voltage being applied to the cell with varying transformer designs. As using the same input voltage allows me to see the changes in power consumption and power output of the many different transformers I build and test.

With your work I'd suggest wrapping a choke with about 600-1000 turns of 22 gauge wire bifilar placing a thin tape the same as Russ used between each layer as you wind the coil back and forth about the bobbin form. What this does is it allows a capacitance to build up between the layers of the transformer. This is good for when using the 8xa setup and you must wire the chokes in such a way that they are opposing one another magnetically as shown here: http://www.hereticalbuilders.com/showpost.php?p=8246&postcount=28 what you will find out is the waveform that you see will be duplicated (I hope you have a scope). It will look just about exactly as you see it in Stan's drawing. This set up is wired just the same as the VIC transformer is wound up minus the secondary and primary coils. Then if you are feeling confident you can add in a MOT like shown in the drawing, but do note that the voltages are going to start to get really high and you might want to protect your chokes by placing them in some sort of mineral oil or transformer oil to keep the air off of the coils for the air will start to ionize and short the chokes out.

Even I have to get a new amp meter as sometimes the amps flowing through the cell are around 0.010 amps and like you it's hard for me to read. We must take great care that we have the best equipment we can find to run our test with so we gather the most information we can from our experiments. A lot of times for me this has meant that I had to wait until I saved up the funds to buy a new meter, or piece of equipment, or the parts to run the next series of test with. It's what must be done if you are to get everything you can out of your experiments and for you to be able to improve your work and even start to make predictions as time goes on.
Enjoy! and I hope the information I provided helps in some small way. Good work :)
Edward
Thanks Ed I will take into consideration your sugestions.
I do happen to have a MOT.  This will probably be my next test. First i have to build a beter coil design as you mentioned.
the existing one I have is a [bifilar wraped ferrite binarry Ecore] with no paper separation  between the windings. So maybe I can rewire this exitsting with proper spacing for capactiance build up as you mentioned [see attaced pic {coil in center}]. As far as the Scope I do have one. just got to admit that i dont really know how to properly use it yet. Its a brand new scope just hesistant to use it i dont want to blow it up like most of the gear that i have lol. Even dou its fun blowing things up it can ad up to lots of money. So i will train my self on how to use it properly before i go full "blown" test.

Edward Mitchell

Re: Distilled Water?
« Reply #23, on March 11th, 2014, 02:44 PM »
Quote from Heuristicobfuscation on March 11th, 2014, 01:16 PM
Thanks Ed I will take into consideration your sugestions.
I do happen to have a MOT.  This will probably be my next test. First i have to build a beter coil design as you mentioned.
the existing one I have is a [bifilar wraped ferrite binarry Ecore] with no paper separation  between the windings. So maybe I can rewire this exitsting with proper spacing for capactiance build up as you mentioned [see attaced pic {coil in center}]. As far as the Scope I do have one. just got to admit that i dont really know how to properly use it yet. Its a brand new scope just hesistant to use it i dont want to blow it up like most of the gear that i have lol. Even dou its fun blowing things up it can ad up to lots of money. So i will train my self on how to use it properly before i go full "blown" test.
Nice set up kinda reminds me of mines :D. Yes, you will have to get a differential probe as the 8xa circuit will trip the breaker if you use the standard type probes. I think GPS posted a site where to get some as a really good price as again even I have to now get another one as I have reach the voltage limit with the one I took to Boulder, Colorado now. A good friend taught me how to use it by adding resistors but when it comes to work like this doing things like that add to the percent error greatly so I must do things the proper way so that I can rely on the readings I get within a certain percent of error that is acceptable. I keep my percent error around 1% or less most of the time so that I know that I am getting the most out of my experiments.
I make use of pre-made bifilar wire when I find it of the right size as that cuts down on the error as it makes it easier to keep the wires side by side when they are permanently bonded together that way to begin with. The most I put together in an 8xa set up was three 600 turn count chokes in series with each other that measured 2 H each. I didn't put them in oil and eventually burned one of them up due to ionization problems. From observations I saw the air started to ionize around the coils that shot a small spark to the core which shot a very large spark back at the chokes which literally caught the chokes on fire. A lesson learned the hard way, LOL :blush:.

You can also find some teaching video's on You Tube so you can learn more about how to use your scope as I had to learn who to use it also. But that is what it is all about asking and answering questions for you already have asked, "Where can I learn how to use the scope I have?" Just think of it this way, the one of transformers I took to Boulder, Colorado burned up on me on the very first day of use. That was a lot of money that went up in smoke that day let me tell you, but these things happen, and all we can do is drive on once the repairs have been made.
Anyway I am glad to be of some help.

Godspeed,
Edward

haiqu

Re: Distilled Water?
« Reply #24, on March 11th, 2014, 08:50 PM »Last edited on March 11th, 2014, 09:31 PM
Quote from Edward Mitchell on March 11th, 2014, 10:56 AM
If one is unwilling to build or test anything then they really should just sit back and enjoy the show as they are not going to help those that are actually performing experiments for the information that those that are doing the work gain will be something they simply can't understand. Haipu it is simple if demineralized water is all you can get then that is what you have to work with so make the best of it through understanding that this is a impedance matched circuit but the parameters of the circuit are variable with the changes in temperature, metals, salts, and acids in the water, and understanding that some of these will build up in the water as more and more water is broken down for they will not go with the gases. We can do this but much care must be taken towards understanding the many different dynamics of a system such as this.

If you need to get some equipment then get it, if you need to buy something then buy it, if you need to build something then build it as there simply isn't any other way to go about solving this technology if something is missing that can aid your work in gathering all the information you can from your experiments. We can do this but we must be willing to spend some money, and do the work, or support those that are doing the work and stay out of their way and let them work with the support given.

Now a lot of what I said isn't aimed at you Haipu but to a lot of members on this site be them moderators or not.

etc, etc
I find the comments above somewhat incongruous. I have no idea where this rant is coming from, but in this case it was aimed at the wrong party.

I simply supplied some missing information. Distilled water used to be a commonly available item, it is no longer easily found. I don't need to have years of experience building HHO cells to know that.

In general I agree with your sentiments though, and have made similar comments on this forum in the past few days.

Evidence: http://open-source-energy.org/?topic=1295.0

There are too many people building stuff in their heads and not doing any actual research. I'm not one of those.

haiQu <--- note spelling