hey guys, some on this quenching disk is posted here at this new burn rate thread.

http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=258

thanks!

~Russ

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on December 20th, 2011, 11:05 PM

Quote from gpssonar on December 20th, 2011, 05:01 PM

@ Russ
I was working at a place that makes medical supplies today. They accualy make the needles for hyperdermic needles. When i seen this, it came to my mind that several small needles like theses grouped together and silver soldered together some way would make a nice flash back arrester. You can get theses needles as less than 15 thousands dia. hole in them. Just an idea.

hey, i think phill or some one was looking in to this also. its not a bad idea.

but, what would it cost for lets say 100 of these needles?

just a thought? but i'm interested in finding out just for pure thought of cost for that type of thing.

thanks for the thoughts!!!

i have some updates to add here but i will post as a video! :)
~Russ

box of 100 23 guage hypodermics needles only was £10/20 dollars, but the work involved is high, I was going to bundle them together with epoxy, but you need 900 of them to equal a 1/2 inch bore pipe. Im waiting on delivery of a couple of jdc flashback arrestors, the guys got some new material on order that can cope with higher flow rates.

Quote from phil on December 27th, 2011, 04:45 PM

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on December 20th, 2011, 11:05 PM

Quote from gpssonar on December 20th, 2011, 05:01 PM

@ Russ
I was working at a place that makes medical supplies today. They accualy make the needles for hyperdermic needles. When i seen this, it came to my mind that several small needles like theses grouped together and silver soldered together some way would make a nice flash back arrester. You can get theses needles as less than 15 thousands dia. hole in them. Just an idea.

hey, i think phill or some one was looking in to this also. its not a bad idea.

but, what would it cost for lets say 100 of these needles?

just a thought? but i'm interested in finding out just for pure thought of cost for that type of thing.

thanks for the thoughts!!!

i have some updates to add here but i will post as a video! :)
~Russ

box of 100 23 guage hypodermics needles only was £10/20 dollars, but the work involved is high, I was going to bundle them together with epoxy, but you need 900 of them to equal a 1/2 inch bore pipe. Im waiting on delivery of a couple of jdc flashback arrestors, the guys got some new material on order that can cope with higher flow rates.

it sure would be fun to try the needles....

also found this, or got deferred to it... : http://www.frogpondaquatics.com/product/704E/Renacer-Micro-Bubbler-15cm-6-in.html
Chris ordered one for me, its on the way, will see how it goes

also remember that I'm looking for something i can use on the flame front

so even the needles may not work... :) melt $250 worth on needles and see what happens... lol that would not be cool!

Thanks!!!! ~Russ

If you look at stan's disk array it only consist if 6 holes in each disk and 5 disks a total of 30 holes. I think you could start with that and if you need more then add more.

Quote from gpssonar on December 28th, 2011, 08:32 AM

If you look at stan's disk array it only consist if 6 holes in each disk and 5 disks a total of 30 holes. I think you could start with that and if you need more then add more.

well, some of the patent drawings are just representations of the real thing. now the hose looks close to to the real thing bet we never have seen the disk except from this photo: (see attachment)

it may really be just a ceramic disk with some holes but if we can find something already made with more flow lets go for it! :)

so in the photos below you can see that the center looks burnt.

i wonder if there is one .0015" hole in the center and the rest is pours material?

this way there is a nice centered flow of Browns gas and then a flow around that to help the flame? any how let  me know your thoughts?

thanks!!!!

~Russ

Russ i got a couple of these at a plant that makes ceramic jet spary nozzels awhile back. You may look into this area for your disks this one looks just like the one in your photos.  I seen a video with the setup you just posted which Stan showed he could controll the single flame comming from it with the smaller valve. Once he found out what hole size would seperate the oxygen from the hydrogen as hydrogen is smaller than oxygen. When hydrogen and oxygen enters the tube the oxygen elongates because of its size and keeps them from combinding together, which prevents a flashback. The last photo came from stan's estate photos. That is the quenching tube that hooks up to the cell that you are sketching up the other end goes to the ionize air and exaust gass manifold before enetering into the injectors.
[attachment=666][attachment=667][attachment=668]

Here is a link to a ceramic spary nozzle site. http://www.c-spray.com/uas-h-albuztec%c2%ae-very-high-pressure-ceramic-industrial-nozzle.html

videos are so much better than words!! :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJdpsMxON_k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBuz6_EXjro

enjoy! thanks!!! ~Russ

I found this browsing McMaster's today:
They have high temp ceramic, 18" and 24" lengths of 2 and 4 bores at 0.031" bore diameters.  There is a picture of a 4 bore ceramic on this page: http://www.mcmaster.com/#raw-materials/=fnvyfn  no idea if that is what it looks like.  You can find them here:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#ceramic-hollow-rods/=fnw2yl

Nate

In one of Russ's recent video's he mentioned we were looking for .0015 to .025 dia. holes.  I did the micron conversion for these and got .0015=37 microns and .025= 625 microns.  Does anyone know the pat # to clarify?  The holes in the quenching tube appear to be well over .0015 and may be .025.  It would make sense for the disc to have a much smaller hole diameters to prevent the flashback and the holes in the tube larger to carry the gas without restriction.

In one of Russ's recent video's he mentioned we were looking for .0015 to .025 dia. holes.  I did the micron conversion for these and got .0015=37 microns and .025= 625 microns.  Does anyone know the pat # to clarify?  The holes in the quenching tube appear to be well over .0015 and may be .025.  It would make sense for the disc to have a much smaller hole diameters to prevent the flashback and the holes in the tube larger to carry the gas without restriction.

Quote from firepinto on January 4th, 2012, 01:21 PM

I found this browsing McMaster's today:
They have high temp ceramic, 18" and 24" lengths of 2 and 4 bores at 0.031" bore diameters.  There is a picture of a 4 bore ceramic on this page: http://www.mcmaster.com/#raw-materials/=fnvyfn  no idea if that is what it looks like.  You can find them here:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#ceramic-hollow-rods/=fnw2yl

Nate

Nate those tubes could be used for insulating  bare nicrhome wire to make heating elements :cool:.

Quote from Blazer on January 4th, 2012, 05:13 PM

In one of Russ's recent video's he mentioned we were looking for .0015 to .025 dia. holes.  I did the micron conversion for these and got .0015=37 microns and .025= 625 microns.

you mean .025 = 62.5 microns?

Quote

Does anyone know the pat # to clarify?

i know he mentioned it in a video, i don't remember wich one...

Quote

The holes in the quenching tube appear to be well over .0015 and may be .025.  It would make sense for the disc to have a much smaller hole diameters to prevent the flashback and the holes in the tube larger to carry the gas without restriction.

i agree, this is one of those things that will need some testing... ???

thanks! ~Russ

Quote from firepinto on January 4th, 2012, 01:21 PM

I found this browsing McMaster's today:
They have high temp ceramic, 18" and 24" lengths of 2 and 4 bores at 0.031" bore diameters.  There is a picture of a 4 bore ceramic on this page: http://www.mcmaster.com/#raw-materials/=fnvyfn  no idea if that is what it looks like.  You can find them here:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#ceramic-hollow-rods/=fnw2yl

Nate

nice find Nate... i have some of those at work, there used for thermocouples... or that's where i have used them at...

but the holes may be bigger on the ones i have seen  

~Russ

Russ... YOU DA MAN! The videos are amazing and we will appreciate you all day long for taking the time to do the testing, research, and videos to help all of us figure these things out. Question for you, the "Quenching disk", where can I buy these? I see the assembly parts can be purchased at Lowes, but maybe I missed the thread or video explaining where I can purchase the disks. Thanks again

Quote from sho14u on January 10th, 2012, 08:48 PM

Russ... YOU DA MAN! The videos are amazing and we will appreciate you all day long for taking the time to do the testing, research, and videos to help all of us figure these things out. Question for you, the "Quenching disk", where can I buy these? I see the assembly parts can be purchased at Lowes, but maybe I missed the thread or video explaining where I can purchase the disks. Thanks again

here is what i'm using.

http://www.amazon.com/Sintered-Stainless-Filter-Diameter-Micron/dp/B000FP9Z74

now Andrew (the guy who gave them to me) told me he bought a pack of 4 each of all diffrant micron sizes for the same price, so look around for the deals?

thanks, ~Russ

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on January 10th, 2012, 09:29 PM

here is what i'm using.

http://www.amazon.com/Sintered-Stainless-Filter-Diameter-Micron/dp/B000FP9Z74

now Andrew (the guy who gave them to me) told me he bought a pack of 4 each of all diffrant micron sizes for the same price, so look around for the deals?

McMaster carries these discs with those dimensions at about $3 a piece and not $10 a piece; scroll down here:

http://www.mcmaster.com/#stainless-steel-filter-discs/=fr7n2w

Quote from haxar on January 11th, 2012, 12:15 AM

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on January 10th, 2012, 09:29 PM

here is what i'm using.

http://www.amazon.com/Sintered-Stainless-Filter-Diameter-Micron/dp/B000FP9Z74

now Andrew (the guy who gave them to me) told me he bought a pack of 4 each of all diffrant micron sizes for the same price, so look around for the deals?

McMaster carries these discs with those dimensions at about $3 a piece and not $10 a piece; scroll down here:

http://www.mcmaster.com/#stainless-steel-filter-discs/=fr7n2w

wow that's a lot better!! i know you mentioned these before but did i did not know much they the cost! ~Russ

Here is a Website for ceramic discs.  I've not contacted them for their prices or anything.
http://www.refractron.com/ceramic-materials/aluminum-oxide/
(Refractron Technologies Corp. 5750 Stuart Avenue Newark, NY 14513-9798 phone: (315) 331-6222 fax: (315) 331-7254 info@refractron.com)

What I don't understand, is the way in which he uses these "quenching circuits"
If I had to guess, he's using them in 2 places.  The first makes sense, after watching Russ's videos.  The flashback arrestor at the point of ignition (for the open flame) and the second is "The Barrier".  After "The Barrier" he recycles some of the "exhaust" back into the flame.  Which allows him to control the, what I would say, intensity of the flame.  The container that houses the flame eludes me.

Stan's Patent #4,421,447: Hydrogen Gas Burner
Column 3, Lines 5-10.
"The barrier is of a material, such as metallic mesh or ceramic material, to disperse therein the flame and in turn become saturated with heat."
Column 3, Lines 63-68.
"Therefore, to utilize the flame in a present day utilization means, the flame is barred by the barrier.  The barrier is of a material that can safely absorb the intense flame and thereafter radiate heat from its entire surface.  The material can be a ceramic, metallic mesh or other absorbing material known in the art."

Quote from Ravenous Emu on January 29th, 2012, 06:20 PM

Here is a Website for ceramic discs.  I've not contacted them for their prices or anything.
http://www.refractron.com/ceramic-materials/aluminum-oxide/
(Refractron Technologies Corp. 5750 Stuart Avenue Newark, NY 14513-9798 phone: (315) 331-6222 fax: (315) 331-7254 info@refractron.com)

What I don't understand, is the way in which he uses these "quenching circuits"
If I had to guess, he's using them in 2 places.  The first makes sense, after watching Russ's videos.  The flashback arrestor at the point of ignition (for the open flame) and the second is "The Barrier".  After "The Barrier" he recycles some of the "exhaust" back into the flame.  Which allows him to control the, what I would say, intensity of the flame.  The container that houses the flame eludes me.

Stan's Patent #4,421,447: Hydrogen Gas Burner
Column 3, Lines 5-10.
"The barrier is of a material, such as metallic mesh or ceramic material, to disperse therein the flame and in turn become saturated with heat."
Column 3, Lines 63-68.
"Therefore, to utilize the flame in a present day utilization means, the flame is barred by the barrier.  The barrier is of a material that can safely absorb the intense flame and thereafter radiate heat from its entire surface.  The material can be a ceramic, metallic mesh or other absorbing material known in the art."

hello again!

so i have tried to get samples from that place with no luck. but maybe some one else will?

the patent finds are grate! i did read this but did reference it! nice work!

now there is a video of Stan talking about this and he shows a slide of the disks... we need to find that for more reference!

and i like how it seas

Quote

The material can be a ceramic, metallic mesh

that confirms our findings with the SS disks.

then here:

Quote

disperse therein the flame and in turn become saturated with heat

and

Quote

The barrier is of a material that can safely absorb the intense flame and thereafter radiate heat from its entire surface.

so i have noticed this in my tests as the flame is not even seen but rater just transfers the heat...

so, we can burn this stuff and pass heat past the entire quenching disk assembly to crate " radiate heat from its entire surface"  ... that's  perfect for a normal heater..  cold air pass a heat elements to make hot air and Bam... heat your home!

haha, this keeps getting more interesting... don't use the flame... use the  radiate heat!!!

good stuff ... good stuff!

~Russ

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on January 30th, 2012, 01:40 AM

now there is a video of Stan talking about this and he shows a slide of the disks... we need to find that for more reference!

Here is a link to the video. that Russ mentioned. I've also got a copy of it if anyone wants... (it's like 120-130 MB)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaB5ME8kFGU&feature=player_detailpage

I'd watch the whole thing... However, those of us with limited time. Check out the following:
Min. 17:10-7:44
Min. 21:32-22:05
Min. 25:13-26:22***  (This contains that slide!)
Min. 43:51-44:49 (Turn on, let pressure build, open valve, ignite.)Hope this helps:

http://www.unit-conversion.info/length.html
1 Inch = 25,400 Microns

[attachment=781]
[attachment=782]
I just got a handlfull of these today.  They are from security cameras for allowing ventalation while still being water proof.  The quenching disk part seems to be brass, and is roll crimped into the conduit fitting.  Not sure how well they might work but worth a try for free. :)
Nate

Quote from firepinto on January 30th, 2012, 03:54 PM

I just got a handlfull of these today.  They are from security cameras for allowing ventalation while still being water proof.  The quenching disk part seems to be brass, and is roll crimped into the conduit fitting.  Not sure how well they might work but worth a try for free. :)
Nate

And done. lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMcmKreCVl0&feature=uploademail

Quote from KevinW-dirtwill on January 30th, 2012, 04:32 PM

Quote from firepinto on January 30th, 2012, 03:54 PM

I just got a handlfull of these today.  They are from security cameras for allowing ventalation while still being water proof.  The quenching disk part seems to be brass, and is roll crimped into the conduit fitting.  Not sure how well they might work but worth a try for free. :)
Nate

And done. lol

lol I watched that right after I posted, weird.  Mine are half inch pipe thread though.  I can blow through them fairly easy.  I'm going to see if I can get more of them.
Exciting times!

Nate

Quote from Ravenous Emu on January 30th, 2012, 09:09 AM

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on January 30th, 2012, 01:40 AM

now there is a video of Stan talking about this and he shows a slide of the disks... we need to find that for more reference!

Here is a link to the video. that Russ mentioned. I've also got a copy of it if anyone wants... (it's like 120-130 MB)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaB5ME8kFGU&feature=player_detailpage

I'd watch the whole thing... However, those of us with limited time. Check out the following:
Min. 17:10-7:44
Min. 21:32-22:05
Min. 25:13-26:22***  (This contains that slide!)
Min. 43:51-44:49 (Turn on, let pressure build, open valve, ignite.)
Hope this helps:

http://www.unit-conversion.info/length.html
1 Inch = 25,400 Microns

can you screen shot those images? and post them here? nice work!

~Russ