When I see this stuff...

Matt Watts

When I see this stuff...
« on September 4th, 2013, 07:20 PM »Last edited on September 7th, 2013, 02:45 PM by Matt Watts
I get excited all over again (skip to about 8:10):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0fjQdwFCYw

A closed loop pressurized DC plasma cell using distilled water and resonated at 14.7kHz.  They call the stuff that comes out "Hydroxy Plasma" or H4O2.  Cool huh.

I want one.

Want to see some flow rate with the "Blue Box" cell?  Check this one out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdPEn-Sp3F0

120 LpM, are you kidding me?  That would certainly run my genset, but I got to wonder if my genset could run it...

Attached is what I received from Fred Wells.
Quote from "Fred Wells"
bead blasting with glass beads
then conditioning with chemicals
then electrolosis
then a little nickle plating on the rod
it is very complex to condition
need H2+H2 to compress to H4
Five tubes with holes at the ends and a center electrode--kind of an elongated Joe Cell.  A perfect combination for resonant cavitation.  Also has a nickel plated center electrode--just right for some LENR stuff going on there.  Now ask yourself why it would need a water filter if the water is distilled to start with.  It's because LENR and cavitation produces all sorts of nuclear by-products that need to be removed.

Lynx

RE: When I see this stuff...
« Reply #1, on September 4th, 2013, 10:01 PM »
Exciting indeed
From what I can tell:

* Brute force electrolosys
* Plasma reactor chamber turning the HHO into H4O2 aka stable plasma
* Mixed with steam to cool things down a bit in the cylinders
* The higher the pressure (?) the greater the volumeflow
* As the motor gets hot the system puts out a little bit more gas
* Manually adjusts the current to the system when so needed (probably the easiest issue to fix here)

There's no mentioning of any electrolyte, the "only" thing I'm curious about is the alcohol used to rid any residual water from the plasma, how often do they have to replenish that.........?

Anyway, when can I order my kit?

Matt Watts

RE: When I see this stuff...
« Reply #2, on September 5th, 2013, 05:58 AM »
Quote from Lynx on September 4th, 2013, 10:01 PM
* Brute force electrolosys
* Plasma reactor chamber turning the HHO into H4O2 aka stable plasma
... the "only" thing I'm curious about is the alcohol used to rid any residual water from the plasma, how often do they have to replenish that.........?
Pulsing with plasma...?   Not your typical brute force.  I suspect there is a corona discharge going on in that cell that is also causing cavitation.  No possible way to run that big V-8 with standard brute force.  We all saw Ethos Pete try it with straight HHO electrolysis.

The alcohol is disturbing though since it's a known fuel source.  At least he didn't lie about it or hide that fact.  He said it was to dry the water out, which in my thinking is just the opposite of what you want--the water should make the engine run smoother with a slower, more controlled burn.

firepinto

RE: When I see this stuff...
« Reply #3, on September 5th, 2013, 06:58 AM »
Just so ya know, this is that Fast Freddy guy that everyone talks about being a scammer. :s  Looks like he got a new youtube channel and renamed his system from H20GO which is already used by Vydtrotech to H20GONOW. :dodgy:  

Lynx

RE: When I see this stuff...
« Reply #4, on September 5th, 2013, 09:30 AM »
From what I can tell from the clips he first splits the water into hydrogen and oxygen in the first unit, somehow, then he "enrinces" the gases to form H4O2, which he then calls "stable plasma", which in turn is fed to the motor mixed with water steam in order to cool things down a bit in the cylinders as the "plasma" burns/explodes.

As always, until it's open source and/or tested by a few other unbiased objective teams, independent from each other, it's only a claim and nothing else.
Only time will tell.

Matt Watts

RE: When I see this stuff...
« Reply #5, on September 5th, 2013, 10:57 AM »
Quote from firepinto on September 5th, 2013, 06:58 AM
Just so ya know, this is that Fast Freddy guy that everyone talks about being a scammer. :s  Looks like he got a new youtube channel and renamed his system from H20GO which is already used by Vydtrotech to H20GONOW. :dodgy:
You know, I was thinking about this last night.  What would be the best alternative to fully dumping an invention into the public domain?  ???

Answer:  Making the invention appear as though it's a hoax and tossing over a few business transactions to get people claiming you are a scammer.  Do that and no one, not even the bad guys would touch you with a ten foot poll.  I have to wonder how many times this technique has been used.  For some it would sure beat having to look over your shoulder constantly for the rest of your life.

Lynx is right, until you have it running on your own bench or in your own car, it's nothing more than a pipe dream.  I still think it's cool to look at though and wonder if it's really possible.

freethisone

RE: When I see this stuff...
« Reply #6, on September 5th, 2013, 12:49 PM »Last edited on September 5th, 2013, 12:51 PM by freethisone
Quote from Dog-One on September 4th, 2013, 07:20 PM
I get excited all over again (skip to about 8:10):


A closed loop pressurized DC plasma cell using distilled water and resonated at 14.7kHz.  They call the stuff that comes out "Hydroxy Plasma" or H4O2.  Cool huh.

I want one.

Want to see some flow rate with the "Blue Box" cell?  Check this one out:


120 LpM, are you kidding me?  That would certainly run my genset, but I got to wonder if my genset could run it...
good movie. now look at the key word. he vaporized the gasoline. now his whole figure of mpg is altered, and can be trusted.

Look what else we learn.in  plasma state of hho or any other gaseous material exposed to heat and charge is essentially doing the exact same thing a la liquid fuel vaporizer. congratulations folk. the simplest solution is found. is a vaporized gas. or heated. i suspect running hydrogen gas through an induction coil will accomplish the same thing. but the added charge in the form of ions is essential.

lamare

RE: When I see this stuff...
« Reply #7, on September 6th, 2013, 12:26 PM »Last edited on September 6th, 2013, 12:45 PM by lamare
There is definitely more to water than meets the eye. Let me first of all point you to this video by Prof. Gerald Pollack titled "The Fourth Phase of Water":


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q33KyLkP_Rg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q33KyLkP_Rg


He shows that a state of water exists, which is somewhat in between ice and liquid water in the sense that it becomes a crystalized, liquid form of water. Very interesting video.

Then, it appears another state of water exists, which is known as Brown's gas, but is ridiculed by main stream science, you know, the real pseudo-scientific crackpots who actually believe that particles can exist at two places at the same time and that emtpy space itself can curve:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxyhydrogen
Quote
"Brown's Gas" is simply oxyhydrogen with a 2:1 molar ratio of H2 and O2 gases, the same proportion as in water. It is named after Yull Brown, who claimed that it could be used as a fuel for the internal combustion engine. It's also called "HHO gas" after the claims of fringe physicist Ruggero Santilli, who claims that his HHO gas, produced by a special apparatus, is "a new form of water", with new properties, based on his (fringe) theory of "magnecules".

Many other pseudoscientific claims have been made about Brown's Gas's pretended ability to neutralize radioactive waste, weld metals, help plants to germinate, etc.

Oxyhydrogen is also often mentioned in conjunction with vehicles that claim to use water as a fuel. The most common and decisive counter-argument against producing this gas on board to use as a fuel or fuel additive is that more energy is needed to split water molecules than is recouped by burning the resulting gas. Additionally, the number of liters per minute of gas that can be produced for on-demand consumption through electrolysis is very small in comparison to the liters per minute consumed by an internal combustion engine.

An article in Popular Mechanics reports that Brown's Gas cannot even increase the miles per gallon (MPG) of your vehicle, and that the only real savings come from tampering with your engine, which may confuse the anti-smog controls.

"Water-fueled" cars should not be confused with hydrogen-fueled cars where the hydrogen is produced elsewhere and used as fuel or where it is used as fuel enhancement.
One of the characteristics of Brown's gas is that it IMPLODES instead of exploding. I have personally witnessed a bubble of Brown's gas on the surface of a water-soap solution being ignited. It gives a very sharp "klick" sound and no ripples on the water. So, despite the arrogance of main stream pseudo-scientific crackpots who think they can do science by looking at formulas in a book, mother nature shows us that indeed something is not right with the view of the main stream crackpots.

What I think happens is that the water molecule actually stretches, whereby the angle between the hydrogen and oxygen atoms within the molecule changes:



You see, this strange gas is obtained by electrolysis with NaOH or KOH as an electrolyte, whereby something like 1.8 V instead of the normal 2V is applied. I don't remember exactly, but the voltage was less than normal, which suggest we are dealing with a state of the water molecule in which the molecule undergoes some structural changes, BUT does NOT split into oxygen and hydrogen.

This picture comes from a paper published by Chris Eckman:
http://www.worldsci.org/pdf/abstracts/abstracts_5440.pdf
http://www.tuks.nl/pdf/Reference_Material/Chris%20Eckman%20-%20Plasma%20Orbital%20Expansion%20of%20the%20Electrons%20in%20Water%20-%202008.pdf

This is Chris Eckman:
http://www.worldsci.org/php/index.php?tab0=Scientists&tab1=Display&name=Christopher_Eckman

Patrick Kelly about this paper:

http://www.free-energy-info.tuks.nl/Chapt10.html
Quote
In 2008, Chris Eckman measured the characteristics of Brown’s Gas at Idaho State University. The measurements showed that there was very little hydrogen (monatomic or diatomic) present. Instead, the gas was found to be a form of water with excess electrons, effectively, a gas which was neither water vapour nor steam. When ignited, the flame temperature was found to be 266 F. or 130 C. (Extraordinary Technology, vol 2(6), pp 15-25, 2008).
It is also mentioned at Pes:

http://pesn.com/2010/05/28/9501658-Plasma_Orbital_Expansion-of-the-Electrons_in_Water/
http://pesn.com/2009/11/23/9501587_ChrisEckman_BrownsGas_model/

This guy actually performed scientific research and performed mass spectrometry measurements, wherein he discovered a strange peak. They also mention something like an "average life" time :
Quote
"Rydberg Clusters

The linear water isomer is stable if it contains Rydberg matterclusters. These are clusters of highly excited matter (microscopic); the electrons are usually free floating in a limited area and can be bound by individual atoms or molecules. The life of a cluster will be dependent on what type of atoms and molecules make it up and will range from a few nano-seconds to a few hours. In lab experiments Brown’s Gas average life is 11 minutes. Rydberg matter clusters are usually associated with solids and liquids, but can be found in gases. Something also intriguing is Rydberg matter clusters can be made using a unique electrolysis process in which special lengths and distances of the plates and the materials are used.

[...]

Figure 4 shows a break down of the elements and molecules of Brown’s Gas. There are four main peaks above 30 thousand particles present in the test; these peaks are the basis of Brown’s Gas. The first peak (from left to right) is diatomic hydrogen and is found in abundant amounts in the Brown’s Gas mixture. There are two peaks due to the fact that there were isotopes of hydrogen in the test sample. The next major peak is water vapor, this normally would be undesired because it would take from the energy of the gas, but it is needed to form the Rydberg clusters. Therefore the water in Brown’s Gas is needed to help increase the energy density of the gas. There are two peaks here because there are isotopes in the water as well.

The third peak is the one that was deemed unidentified by the test, but it is proposed that this is the linear water isotope, because it contains the weight of water with a few extra electrons. If this is the linear water molecule, than it is only making up about 3 to 12% of the total gas. It would not form if there were no Rydberg clusters present! It needs the other gases to make it stable as seen in figure 3. The fourth peak is the diatomic oxygen. This is less then what would be expected in normal electrolysis, but is normal in Brown’s Gas.
Dr. Andrija Puharich talked about something like this in his patents about his version of a WFC:
http://www.rexresearch.com/puharich/1puhar.htm
Quote
SUMMARY OF THE PRESENT INVENTION

In classical quantum physical chemistry, the water molecule has two basic bond angles, one angle being 104°, and the other angle being 109°28'.

The present invention involves a method by which a water molecule can be energized by electrical means so as to shift the bond angle from the 104°.degree. configuration to the 109°.degree.28' tetrahedral geometrical configuration.
And more research has been done into this phenomenon, where we find out that it is known under a very large number of names, given that this supposedly does not exist:

http://www.eagle-research.com/cms/faq/browns-gas
Quote
Research indicates that Brown's Gas has characteristics that cannot be achieved by simply mixing bottled hydrogen and oxygen in astoichiometric ratio.

BG contains H, H2, O, O2, H2O (as water vapor) and a special 6th'structured' gas that Yull Brown called a 'Fluid Crystal', George Wiseman calls 'Electrically Expanded Water' (ExW) and professor Ruggero Santilli calls 'Magnecules'.

BG is also known under brand names of: Common-Ducted Gas, Rhode's Gas,Spirig Gas, Hydroxy, Brown Gas, Green Gas, Klein Gas, Aquygen, HHO, SGGas, Ohmasa Gas, Knallgas and (erroneously by WikiPedia) OxyHydrogen.
http://www.eagle-research.com/cms/blog/browns-gas/ohmasa-gas-vs-browns-gas
Quote
Brown's Gas (BG) and Ohmasa Gas both contain an gasious form of water that I named Electrically Expanded Water (ExW) in 1996.
ExW is a 'stable' and combustible gasious form of water.  ExW is water that has 'soaked' up electrical energy like a sponge soaks up water. This highly energized water transforms from a water-liquid to a water-gas; it is a form of H2O that is not water vapor or steam.

When 'combusted' it gives up it's electrical energy and returns to it's liquid-water state with only implosion, NO explosion.

Normal electrolyzers produce Hydrogen on the cathode plate and Oxygenon the anode plates.  Our electrolyzers, in addition to the 'normal' H2 and O2, demonstratably (and visually) form a gas BETWEEN the plates. This is the ExW!

If Ohmasa Gas contained no H2 or O2 then it would not the same as BG. However, Ohmasa Gas does contain monatomic and diatomic forms of Hydrogen and Oxygen so I definitely call Ohmasa Gas another trade name of BG.

BG can be pressurized too, just like the claims of SG gas and Ohmasagas. BUT they ALL are self-igniting under certain conditions so are inherently unsafe for high pressure operation in public use.
An important detail is that it has indeed been observed that Brown's gas implodes:

http://www.eagle-research.com/browngas/whatisbg/watergas.html
Quote
In my personal experience I discovered the 'heavier than air' ExWaspect/component of BG by accident.

I was grinding on an ER1150 WaterTorch frame and some sparks flew over the waterfill hole, which I had covered with a cloth to prevent impurities from falling in. The hole had been open for over a day and I had no concern about igniting hydrogen, but SOMETHING went WHOOSH as sparks ignited it.

Note that it didn't go BANG like a hydrogen explosion would. It went whoosh like an instant vacuum had happened and air was rushing in tofill the area.

I subsequently discovered that if I fill a 2 liter transparent popbottle with BG, then leave it sit for at least 15 minutes (with the lid off), the remaining mixture is implosive. If you ignite it too soon the result is VERY explosive because the hydrogen has not had a chance to escape. So, the ExW is heavier than air and will stay in the bottle as the hydrogen escapes. If the quality/quantity of the ExW is high enough to support combustion, it will IMPLODE with no pre-explosion.

It burns as a 'slow' imploding donut shaped flame as it moves downinside the bottle; quite interesting to watch.

Thus we are left with the conclusion that Brown's Gas is more than mon-atomic and di-atomic gas, adding a component of uniquely expanded water. The ExW is a combustible water in a gaseous form that is NOT steam or water vapor.
Another researcher also measures an anomality:

http://www.rexresearch.com/klein/klein1.htm
Quote
Although the technology Klein uses -- electrolysis -- has been around for decades, he said it's the form of gas that comes out of his electrolyzer and the characteristics of the gas that set his hydrogen technology apart.

Klein's gas is two parts hydrogen and one part oxygen. Sound familiar? Yep, it's water.

Electrolysis is a process that uses an electrical charge in water to separate the hydrogen from the oxygen. But coming out of Klein's gas generator, the H2O 1500 electrolyzer, it's not water, he said. Klein, president of Hydrogen Technology Applications Inc., calls it HHO, or the brand name Aquygen.

"You get a huge energy response," Klein said. "But this gas is very, very safe."
http://www.google.com/patents/US20060075683

And there is Japanese research:

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Ohmasa_Gas_by_Japan_Techno_Co.%2C_Ltd
Quote
I don't know the certain molecular structure, but we get a second water [type] on the Earth. All internal-combustion engines and generators can [conceivably] use this water fuel, exhausting watervapor. We want to make the water fuel that saves the Earth.
Also see:
http://pesn.com/2009/11/23/9501587_ChrisEckman_BrownsGas_model/BrownsGas_ChrisEckman_080501.doc
http://freeenergynews.com/Directory/BrownsGas/ChrisEckman_browns_gas_TeslaTech2009.ppt
http://brownsgas.com/
http://www.energeticforum.com/water-fuel/5672-hydroxy-oxyhydrogen-rhode-s-gas-brown-s-gas-hho.html
http://www.panacea-bocaf.org/hydroxygas.htm
http://annex.wikia.com/wiki/HHO_gas

A very interesting overview of water gas tech:
http://freeenergynews.com/Directory/Electrolysis/Moray_King/wf-zpe3.pdf
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Video:Water_as_Fuel_(via_ZPE)
http://www.free-energy-info.com/MorayKing.pdf

----

So far, we can conclude that besides Polack's fourth state of water another state of the water molecule exists, which is known under various names, amongst which HHO and Brown's gas are the most well known. Characteristic of the state of the water molecule is that it is a gas at room temperature and that it implodes instead of exploding, like a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen does.

Given that it is made using slightly less voltage in an electrolyser, I think Eckman is probably pretty close to the truth when he shows a streched water molecule which is thus not split into hydrogen and oxygen.

This means that because Meyer's cell works with an electric field created by a dielectric layer that Meyer's cell likely produces a mixture of exploding H2/O2 gas and Brown's gas.

Now this is a problem, because first of all imploding gas inside an engine cylinder of course opposes the explosive force we are utilizing in the engine. Secondly, the guys demonstrating the implosion to me said that this implosion is set off at temperatures as low as 150 degrees Celsius. This suggests Stan's "gas processor" may be needed to get rid of the Brown's gas within the mixture. Perhaps other reasons are also possible.

OTOH, Ohmasa claims engines can also be run on this type of gas and that is also what the guys demonstrating the implosion to me said. However, then you would need considerable adjustments to the sparking timing in the engine, because it would now become a "pulling" type of engine instead of exploding gasses "pushing" the piston down.

Either way, this stuff is definitely something to study and think about further.




Lynx

RE: When I see this stuff...
« Reply #8, on September 6th, 2013, 12:35 PM »
Thinking about thinking, water is made of the most explosive element there is, I.E hydrogen, and that which enables any fire/explosion, I.E oxygen.
Smokers should consider themselves lucky that they don't just vaporize every time they throw a cigarett butt into the lake.

Matt Watts

RE: When I see this stuff...
« Reply #9, on September 6th, 2013, 12:53 PM »
When I attempted to run my genset on Brown's gas, what I noticed is the engine would BANG initially out the exhaust but after just a few seconds, the sound would change and become internal to the motor, not the exhaust.  So a theory to toss out there is:  The fresher the gas, the more it tends to implode, but after sitting a bit, it changes to a gas that tends more to explode, at least initially and possibly implode immediately after.  It definitely appears to have a life or dynamic all of its own, which becomes very apparent when you weld with an HHO torch. Try a piece of brass to concrete.  You simply cannot do that with a brazing torch.  But with an HHO torch you can.  The HHO heat completely changes the physical bonds around.

As for the video, they call it Hydroxy Plasma and say that is H4O2, which is fine.  No way to determine as yet if it's true or not, but we can consider it I reckon.  Maybe explosive volatile Brown's gas would be a better term.

freethisone

RE: When I see this stuff...
« Reply #10, on September 6th, 2013, 02:00 PM »Last edited on September 6th, 2013, 02:07 PM by freethisone
looks like you have discovered the increasing potential range of the signal gen.


there it is plain as day probably makes a nice resonator too.



Figure 1: Signal Generator Component Block ~

This electronic device has a complex alternating current output consisting of an audio frequency (range 20 to 200 Hz) amplitude modulation of a carrier wave (range: 200 to 100,000 Hz). The output is connected by two wires to Component II at the center electrode, and at the ring electrode. See Fig1. The impedance of this output signal is continuously being matched to the load which is the water solution in Component II.
http://www.rexresearch.com/puharich/1puhar.htm

infra red and uv heating would do a good job. or the addition of a 7.5 kv neg ion gen could be used to alter the atoms of hydrogen. rather a coronal discharge.

lamare

RE: When I see this stuff...
« Reply #11, on September 7th, 2013, 01:52 AM »
Quote from Dog-One on September 4th, 2013, 07:20 PM
Want to see some flow rate with the "Blue Box" cell?  Check this one out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdPEn-Sp3F0
At the end of this vid, there's a little demonstration of igniting soap bubbles containing what they call "plasma". That is exactly what I saw, but it is NOT a plasma. It is water, but the molecules are in what one could call an "excited" state, just like single atoms can be in an excited state:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excited_state


lamare

RE: When I see this stuff...
« Reply #12, on September 7th, 2013, 05:39 AM »Last edited on September 7th, 2013, 05:43 AM by lamare
Just noticed that on Eckman's world sci page there are a number of videos:

http://www.worldsci.org/php/index.php?tab0=Scientists&tab1=Display&name=Christopher_Eckman

This one is extremely interesting in relation to Prof. Pollack's work:

http://www.worldsci.org/php/index.php?tab0=Events&tab1=Display&id=405
Quote
Browns gas has been exploding as a topic. In Browns gas there is a great possibility of what is known as Rydberg Clusters. This clusters of atoms and molecules will increase the energy density in browns gas leading to odd interactions of matter. This is where the mystery is held. This Rydberg cluster may be the nesting grounds of a isomer of water, that is a changed molecule structure. There is a algorithm that was written of elements and there temperatures reached that shows or 'guesses' what an unknown elements reaction to Browns gas will be. This has been a work in progress and may relate more to crystal structures then we previously thought, however that relation is in its beginning stages of understanding. The interaction in the crystal lattices are included in one hypothesized source of the intense heat generated by certain substances and why most liquids and gases are relativity unaffected (most gases and liquids have too much energy to sustain any solid crystalline structure). Again this is due to electric nature of the gas. The electric nature of the gas gives it mystery to chemist and the unfortunate blind eye that scientist give it in general. This presentation will be more of observations that were made and a question and answer session, this is due to this work being a 'work in progress'.
This suggests that Brown's gas / HHO is actually one and the same phenomena as Pollack's "fourth phase of water".

What is also very interesting is that Prof. Pollack recently published a video about making batteries with water, somehow exploiting this phenomenon. I haven't watched it yet, but here it is:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eS4PkR_BkRo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eS4PkR_BkRo
Quote
Published on Aug 16, 2012

Gerald Pollack - This paper largely comprises a draft chapter of my forthcoming book, The Fourth Phase of Water: Beyond Solid, Liquid and Vapor (Ebner and Sons, 2012). I preface it by providing some background. School children learn that water has three phases: solid, liquid and vapor. But we recently uncovered what appears to be a fourth phase. This phase occurs next to water-loving (hydrophilic) surfaces. It is surprisingly extensive, projecting out from the hydrophilic surface by up to millions of molecular layers.

A principal attribute of this phase is that it excludes particles and solutes because of its liquid crystalline nature. We have therefore labeled this phase the "exclusion zone" or EZ for short. Of particular significance is the observation that the EZ is charged; and, the water just beyond is oppositely charged. This creates a battery that can produce current. We found that light recharges this battery. Thus, water can receive and process electromagnetic energy drawn from the environment - much like plants. The material below outlines the evidence that water acts as a battery.
Note the following:
"Of particular significance is the observation that the EZ is charged."

This is what both Pollack and Eckman are talking about, which clearly suggests we are looking at one and the same phenomenon.



Ravenous Emu

RE: When I see this stuff...
« Reply #13, on September 7th, 2013, 07:44 AM »Last edited on September 7th, 2013, 07:44 AM by Ravenous Emu
Quote from Dog-One on September 6th, 2013, 12:53 PM
When I attempted to run my genset on Brown's gas, what I noticed is the engine would BANG initially out the exhaust but after just a few seconds, the sound would change and become internal to the motor, not the exhaust....
That sounds more like the engine backfiring to me...
(Just my 2 cents.)

Matt Watts

RE: When I see this stuff...
« Reply #14, on September 7th, 2013, 09:05 AM »Last edited on September 7th, 2013, 11:11 AM by Matt Watts
Quote from Ravenous Emu on September 7th, 2013, 07:44 AM
Quote from Dog-One on September 6th, 2013, 12:53 PM
When I attempted to run my genset on Brown's gas, what I noticed is the engine would BANG initially out the exhaust but after just a few seconds, the sound would change and become internal to the motor, not the exhaust....
That sounds more like the engine backfiring to me...
(Just my 2 cents.)
Me being old and having straw for brains, you're probably right.

What it seemed like though is the engine went from having explosions in the cylinder to having implosions in the crankcase.  Exhaust pressure went way down and the sound of the motor changed considerably.  On that particular motor, I know the rings were quite bad so it's plenty possible gas was shooting right past them during compression once all the oil was displaced--and with no oil pump, that only takes a couple of revolutions.

I can say with certainty, that engine never sounded like that running gasoline.



BTW, made contact with Fred Wells and added/updated the first post.  From what I can tell, if you can get all the parts fabricated he is more than willing to help you through the rest--conditioning process.  The hookup and PWM is pretty straight forward.  Getting the cell made, conditioning the center electrode and five tubes is the hard part.

lamare

RE: When I see this stuff...
« Reply #15, on September 8th, 2013, 06:11 AM »Last edited on September 8th, 2013, 07:12 AM by lamare
Quote from Dog-One on September 7th, 2013, 09:05 AM
Quote from Ravenous Emu on September 7th, 2013, 07:44 AM
Quote from Dog-One on September 6th, 2013, 12:53 PM
When I attempted to run my genset on Brown's gas, what I noticed is the engine would BANG initially out the exhaust but after just a few seconds, the sound would change and become internal to the motor, not the exhaust....
That sounds more like the engine backfiring to me...
(Just my 2 cents.)
Me being old and having straw for brains, you're probably right.

What it seemed like though is the engine went from having explosions in the cylinder to having implosions in the crankcase.  Exhaust pressure went way down and the sound of the motor changed considerably.  On that particular motor, I know the rings were quite bad so it's plenty possible gas was shooting right past them during compression once all the oil was displaced--and with no oil pump, that only takes a couple of revolutions.

I can say with certainty, that engine never sounded like that running gasoline.




BTW, made contact with Fred Wells and added/updated the first post.  From what I can tell, if you can get all the parts fabricated he is more than willing to help you through the rest--conditioning process.  The hookup and PWM is pretty straight forward.  Getting the cell made, conditioning the center electrode and five tubes is the hard part.
Patrick Kelly warned about this, which is related to "waste sparks":

http://free-energy-info.tuks.nl/Chapt10.html
Quote
In order to achieve this objective, very much like Stan Meyer, we need to feed the engine three things:

1. Air - this is fed in as normal through the existing air filter.
2. Hydroxy gas - how to make this has already been explained in considerable detail.
3. A mist of very small water droplets, sometimes called "cold water fog".

Also, we need to make two adjustments to the engine:

1. The spark timing needs to be retarded by about eleven degrees.
2. If there is a "waste" spark, then that needs to be eliminated.

[...]

Anyway, if we were to delay the spark until after Top Dead Centre as we must, then the situation is quite different as the waste spark will also be delayed by the same amount. With most engines, at this point in time the exhaust valve will have closed and the intake valve opened. Our very flammable gas mix will be being fed into the engine on it's intake stroke. This means that our gas supply system is openly connected to the cylinder through the open intake valve, and so, the waste spark would ignite our gas supply system (as far as the bubbler which would smother the flashback). The situation is shown here:



this leaves us with two engine adjustments: timing delay and waste spark elimination. There are various ways in which these can be done and as each engine design is different, it is difficult to cover every possibility. However, there is a technique which can be used with many engines and which deals with both issues at the same time.

Most engines of this type are four-stroke engines with intake and exhaust valves, perhaps something like this:



The intake valve (shown on the right in this illustration) is pushed down by a cam shaft, compressing the spring and opening the inlet port. The exact arrangement will be different from one engine design to the next. What is fixed is the movement of the valve itself and that movement only takes place every second revolution. There are various ways of using those movement to eliminate the waste spark and retard the timing. If a switch were mounted so that it opens when the intake valve opens and closes when the intake valve closes, then the switch closure shows when the piston starts upwards on its compression stroke and a simple electronic circuit can then give an adjustable delay before firing the coil which produces the spark. This, of course, involves disconnecting the original electrical circuit so that no waste spark is generated. The current flowing through the switch contacts can be arranged to be so low that there will be no sparking at the contacts when the circuit is broken again. The switch positioning might be like this:



An alternative is to attach a strong permanent magnet to the rocker arm, using epoxy resin, and then position a solid state "Hall-effect" sensor so that it triggers the delay before the spark is generated.

If the engine did not have a waste spark, then in theory, the timing mechanism of the engine could be used to retard the spark. However, in practice, the timing mechanism is almost never capable of retarding the spark to the position that is needed for running without fossil fuel, and so, some kind of delay circuit will be needed anyway.

Quote from Dog-One on September 7th, 2013, 09:05 AM
BTW, made contact with Fred Wells and added/updated the first post.  From what I can tell, if you can get all the parts fabricated he is more than willing to help you through the rest--conditioning process.  The hookup and PWM is pretty straight forward.  Getting the cell made, conditioning the center electrode and five tubes is the hard part.
If you are in contact with Fred, you may want to point him to the posts I made above regarding Brown's gas and the work of Pollack and Eckman.

The gas he is producing is NOT a plasma NOR H4O2. It's what is known as Brown's gas and appears to contain stretched water molecules which form some kind of crystal structure in a gaseous form, similar to the crystals which form when water is frozen into ice.

Quote from Dog-One on September 4th, 2013, 07:20 PM
Attached is what I received from Fred Wells.
Quote from "Fred Wells"
bead blasting with glass beads
then conditioning with chemicals
then electrolosis
then a little nickle plating on the rod
it is very complex to condition
need H2+H2 to compress to H4
Five tubes with holes at the ends and a center electrode--kind of an elongated Joe Cell.  A perfect combination for resonant cavitation.  Also has a nickel plated center electrode--just right for some LENR stuff going on there.  Now ask yourself why it would need a water filter if the water is distilled to start with.  It's because LENR and cavitation produces all sorts of nuclear by-products that need to be removed.
Very interesting that he uses a nickel plated electrode. I wrote about that in my theory thread, whereby I see a polarized dielectric as being the energy source which is being utilized in these kinds of systems:
http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=1168

I first though nickel-oxide would give a suitable layer, but concluded that was probably not the case, because in super capacitors nickel oxides are involved in redox reactions. So, the dominant mechanism appears to be charge exchange between different forms of nickel hydroxide and nickel oxide and not dielectric polarization.

However, it may very well be that dielectric polarization of the oxide also takes place, so we get a mixture of two mechanisms.

Since Meyer did not appear to use any kind of conditioning process and chromium oxide appears to have suitable dielectric properties, I concluded that Meyer used electropolished stainless and therefore that that would be the best option to use.

As for LENR type of stuff: I don't think nuclear fusion is the primary process going on in the sense that it is not the energy source cold fusion experimenters have been looking for.

BUT Brown's gas has been associated with cleaning nuclear waste:

http://www.eagle-research.com/cms/node/456
Quote
To answer that you need to understand that the only effective radioactive neutralization protocol I currently know of, that uses BG, is to mix the radioactive material with approximately equal quantities of iron and aluminum (by volume) and heat the whole mixture to liquid (using a BG flame).  When the mixture is hot enough it will explode... not like a bomb, more like a firecracker.  
 
Iron and aluminum make thermite (research thermite to learn the optimum quantities to use), and the BG provides the special transmutation energy.  BG exhibits transmutative characteristics in other applications too, like processing ore.
 
Most materials are radioactive because the electrons have been stripped off the molecules; the nucleus then ejects particles of various kinds (radioactivity) to try to 'balance' the 'weight' (and transmute to a lighter, glasslike, material).  Somehow, the molecules are able to use the special energy in the BG to complete this transmutation in seconds (instead of millennia), when the material is molten and given the shock of the thermite explosion.
 
So it's impractical to use BG, as far as I know, on anything that you don't want to destroy.  The BG 'explodes' the material and does the neutralization during the explosion.  You need to affect the material on an atomic level to neutralize the radioactivity.

Also it's impractical to use BG on any material that isn't concentrated radioactive.  It takes electrical power to make the BG, plus quantities of iron and aluminum to make the explosive reaction.  
 
Thus, BG works well to neutralize CONCENTRATED nuclear waste, like spent fuel rods or decommissioned warheads, but practically useless at remediation of radioactive materials that have dispersed into the general environment.  
 
BG has been proven (Canada government certified tests) to be an extremely effective, practical and inexpensive method to neutralize the radioactivity of materials generally produced by nuclear powerplants.  The neutralization can be done onsite, eliminating the need for transportation and storage of nuclear waste.  
 
There is an organization (PACE) that has been lobbying for the Canadian Government to use BG to neutralize radioactive waste... with zero results.  It seems that the Nuclear Industry does NOT want it's waste neutralized.  I think they see it as potentially useful to make small power sources (like nuclear batteries), bullets, etc.
 
I have assembled a bunch of information, (including a video showing the testing being done at the Canadian research reactor at Chalk River Ontario), that documents what I've just told you.  No need to buy it unless you want to be involved with using BG to neutralize concentrated radioactive materials.

http://www.eagle-research.com/cms/store/browns-gas
So, it appears to be possible that the use of Brown's gas can result in the appearance of nuclear by-products. However, as far as I can tell at this moment, this is associated with burning / igniting of already formed Brown's gas and not with the forming of the gas itself. Therefore, I think nuclear processes are unlikely to occur in an electrolyser system, although one cannot completely rule out the possibility

However, given that Fred uses a nickel plated anode, whereby nickel oxides and nickel hydroxides are formed and there is also a cathode, which I assume to be stainless, it is likely one will find contaminations in the form of metal ions and/or metal oxides in the water. So, before one goes into the direction of looking for byproducts of nuclear reactions, one should first make sure that whatever contaminations are found are not the result of normal chemical reactions between the electrolyte and the materials the electrolyser consists of.

Lynx

RE: When I see this stuff...
« Reply #16, on September 8th, 2013, 07:00 AM »
I made it sticky for now, there's some really interesting aspects here worth digging deeper into.
Thanks for the posts guys!

Matt Watts

RE: When I see this stuff...
« Reply #17, on September 8th, 2013, 01:15 PM »
Quote from lamare on September 8th, 2013, 06:11 AM
As for LENR type of stuff: I don't think nuclear fusion is the primary process going on in the sense that it is not the energy source cold fusion experimenters have been looking for.
I mentioned that because from what I've been able to turn over so far, many LENR experiments are focusing on a transmutation process from nickel to copper.  They are suspecting this is the source for their excess energy.  And why Fred would have chosen to nickel plate that center rod when everything else is polished 316 stainless...?  You be the judge.

Fred's two inch diameter cell appears to be very simplistic from the outset, though I suspect it is actually far more complex, due to the special coatings and processing, as well as the precision porting.  At the very least this cell is taking advantage of some not so commonly used phenomena to achieve output flow rates far in excess of typical brute force electrolysis.  That said, if it is true, the conditioning and design leads me to believe cavitation is one aspect and possibly LENR as another.  The cell makes a lot of gas, enough to power an engine that can in-turn power the cell.  With the losses normally associated with an internal combustion engine, this cell must be doing something right that we have yet to fully understand and capitalize on.

lamare

RE: When I see this stuff...
« Reply #18, on September 8th, 2013, 01:46 PM »
Quote from Dog-One on September 8th, 2013, 01:15 PM
Quote from lamare on September 8th, 2013, 06:11 AM
As for LENR type of stuff: I don't think nuclear fusion is the primary process going on in the sense that it is not the energy source cold fusion experimenters have been looking for.
I mentioned that because from what I've been able to turn over so far, many LENR experiments are focusing on a transmutation process from nickel to copper.  They are suspecting this is the source for their excess energy.  And why Fred would have chosen to nickel plate that center rod when everything else is polished 316 stainless...?  You be the judge.

Fred's two inch diameter cell appears to be very simplistic from the outset, though I suspect it is actually far more complex, due to the special coatings and processing, as well as the precision porting.  At the very least this cell is taking advantage of some not so commonly used phenomena to achieve output flow rates far in excess of typical brute force electrolysis.  That said, if it is true, the conditioning and design leads me to believe cavitation is one aspect and possibly LENR as another.  The cell makes a lot of gas, enough to power an engine that can in-turn power the cell.  With the losses normally associated with an internal combustion engine, this cell must be doing something right that we have yet to fully understand and caps italize on.
Well, the LENR stugff makes things very confusing and hard to analyse. It not for nothing the LENR stuff kept the scientists busy for a whole decade, without coming to a conclusion that it actually existed:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_fusion
Quote
The DOE 2004 report said among its conclusions and recommendations:

"Ordinarily, new scientific discoveries are claimed to be consistent and reproducible; as a result, if the experiments are not complicated, the discovery can usually be confirmed or disproved in a few months. The claims of cold fusion, however, are unusual in that even the strongest proponents of cold fusion assert that the experiments, for unknown reasons, are not consistent and reproducible at the present time. (...) Internal inconsistencies and lack of predictability and reproducibility remain serious concerns. (...) The Panel recommends that the cold fusion research efforts in the area of heat production focus primarily on confirming or disproving reports of excess heat."
However, both LeClair's work and the already referred to work on eagle-research.com suggest that particularly the implosive power from Brown's gas may under the right circumstances lead to transmutation of material.

And as I posted on the LeClair thread, it appears that reactors based on LENR principles are by far not as efficient as Meyer's process, which appears to be about 10 times more efficient than LENR, although this is based on just a single data point, so I may be wrong on this one for the more general case:

http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=1329&pid=17544#pid17544

So far, my theory about the dielectric layer being used to power the process appears to hold up and appears to offer the possibility of making progress beyond what Freddy and others are currently capable of achieving. However, time will have to tell. :)


Lynx

RE: When I see this stuff...
« Reply #19, on September 8th, 2013, 02:44 PM »
I'm leaning more and more towards applying a dielectric layer to the tubes, somehow it >feels< as though it's the correct way to go here.

Matt Watts

RE: When I see this stuff...
« Reply #20, on September 8th, 2013, 03:22 PM »
Quote from Lynx on September 8th, 2013, 02:44 PM
I'm leaning more and more towards applying a dielectric layer to the tubes, somehow it >feels< as though it's the correct way to go here.
What's the one thing that has been giving everyone fits?

It's that the WFC won't charge like a capacitor.  Once you get above 2 volts it starts to act much more like a current shunt.

Now add the proper thickness layer of Chromium Dioxide and it's a whole new ball game.  But wait, that's not all...  You still probably need that physical vibration to force cavitation.  Get that far and overunity starts to look possible.  On the cavitation side, we are talking about tuning the frequency to the tubes, so they physically vibrate.  But I have to ask because I do not know--what force is being generated that is attempting to move the tubes?  Electrostatic?  Magnetic?  Both?  Something else?  And when I say move, what does the movement look like?  Longitudinal?  Axial?  Or something else?

See what I mean by a couple of tubes being so complex?  There is a lot going on in there and it is still magic to me.

Lynx

RE: When I see this stuff...
« Reply #21, on September 8th, 2013, 11:48 PM »
I'm guessing kinetic forces are in play here, for every action there's an equal and opposite reaction.
Maybe when the H and O are released, due to dielectric breakdown/fragmentation/brute force/whatever, they're "plunged" into the water and the cell wall is then knocked "the other way".
This is the great thing about any of this, I don't have to be able to provide complex formulas or whatnot, just rant simple enough phrases outlining my ideas no matter how preposterous they may sound.
I like thinking ouside the box

Matt Watts

RE: When I see this stuff...
« Reply #22, on September 9th, 2013, 12:27 AM »
Just thought of something though, looking at the drawings again.  One rod, five tubes and 12 volts in with high current wiring.  That's about 2.4 volts per contained water volume.  Hmmm...  So is this thing only using brute force electrolysis?  It doesn't seem like the conditioning would be acting as dielectric unless the breakdown voltage is only a hair above that magic 2 volt limit.  No way is there high enough voltage in there to cause any sort of corona discharge or plasma effect.

And on the thought of cavitation, I just can't see what could possibly be causing a rapid vacuum to occur inside there.  I mean, to look at it, it seems more like a darn pipe bomb than anything else.  If you look at the porting, they are always at the ends, not some in the middle.  So whatever is happening pressure-wise, it must be happening in the middle where there is no easy way for pressure to equalize quickly enough to avoid cavitation.  Something must be causing a shock wave that moves faster than the water can.  Maybe it's simply those high amperage pulses.

That's it for me today, this making my head hurt.  I'll sleep on it and help you rant some more later.  hehe

lamare

RE: When I see this stuff...
« Reply #23, on September 9th, 2013, 01:03 AM »
Quote from Dog-One on September 8th, 2013, 03:22 PM
Quote from Lynx on September 8th, 2013, 02:44 PM
I'm leaning more and more towards applying a dielectric layer to the tubes, somehow it >feels< as though it's the correct way to go here.
What's the one thing that has been giving everyone fits?

It's that the WFC won't charge like a capacitor.  Once you get above 2 volts it starts to act much more like a current shunt.

Now add the proper thickness layer of Chromium Dioxide and it's a whole new ball game.  But wait, that's not all...  You still probably need that physical vibration to force cavitation.  Get that far and overunity starts to look possible.  On the cavitation side, we are talking about tuning the frequency to the tubes, so they physically vibrate.  But I have to ask because I do not know--what force is being generated that is attempting to move the tubes?  Electrostatic?  Magnetic?  Both?  Something else?  And when I say move, what does the movement look like?  Longitudinal?  Axial?  Or something else?

See what I mean by a couple of tubes being so complex?  There is a lot going on in there and it is still magic to me.
Overunity, or COP>1 (the term I prefer), is possible without any vibration, as can be seen from Bedini's "cold boiling" batteries, which is what got me to my theory in the first place (back in 2009):

http://freeenergynews.com/Directory/Inventors/JohnBedini/SG/Feb2005/
Quote
In the last few months, John and I have built two large, multi-coil machines. One of them runs on 24 volt, 450 amp-hour batteries and charges a second equally large battery bank. The second one runs on 24 volt, 1600 amp-hour batteries and charges a second set of equal size. This last unit is our first set of experiments with a battery large enough to run a solar home! At the end of the charge cycle, these 1600 amp-hour batteries are boiling at 31.2 volts!
Aaron Murakami confirmed this in my thread over there:
http://www.energeticforum.com/john-bedini/5128-bedini-meyer-capacitors-batteries-electret-effect.html#post78532
Quote
Lamare,

I have showed this for years. Imhotep even mentioned it about a cap that seems to not be able to die because it keeps itself charged up like an electret - from a conditioning effect. Anyway, there is something to it.

Listen to 1:10~1:20

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDtXR_1Ubs8
That is the second time I posted that video, originally it was removed with the rest of my vids.

[Note: I am not 100% sure this is the vid Aaron means]

The "boiling" effect isn't necessarily unwanted when charging batteries with the Bedini method. They will COLD boil, even up to an hour after the charger is disconnected if using for example, high capacitance low voltage discharges.

Also, a cap can be charged with pure radiant and no measurable "electron" current. A charged cap doesn't need to have electrons piling on plates, etc...

You may find this interesting.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/73155/Eric-Dollard-Notes-19861991

[pdf here also: http://www.tuks.nl/pdf/Eric_Dollard_Document_Collection/Free-Energy%20Research%20of%20Eric%20Dollard%20-%20Collection%20of%20Contributions%20to%20JBR.pdf ]

See page 26 of the pdf.

Batteries are water electrolysis cells. A water molecule is either created or destroyed depending on if it is powering or being charged and that what all the complicated battery chemistry comes down to.

And the concentric tubes ARE capacitors.

I have seen batteries charged with radiant that get a white coating on the plates...batteries with clear see through walls so you can see the liquid and plates inside. Just like the conditioning that has been observed on many of the Meyer experiments. This is the observation I brought to the table a long time ago.
Another interesting comment a bit further down:
Quote
HairBear,

I'm not disputing that Meyers had no coating on his tubes.

First of all, Ravi got this conditioning idea and process from me and then developed his own conditioning regimen. You can ask him youself.

And, it is not a myth, which implies it has been claimed that Meyer's tubes did have a white powder coating. It must be kept in the proper context. Myself or Ravi never claimed Meyer had this coating.

I may have speculated on that but have never claimed that as I have never personally examined Meyer's tubes. But, apparently both Ravi and I have seen a significant increase in gas production WITH the coating for less input.

I originally posted this around 5 years ago, this is the 2nd or 3rd time I posted it after it kept getting deleted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VphxVYYnEvA

Both the below vids are the 2nd or 3rd time I had to post them as well.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yiag4h7H-TQ

If I put a choke in series, the of course I can get higher voltaged and lower current. I have built several variations of the vic for straight up running the cells to produce gas and not for conditioning, but haven't really posted anything on that. Anyway, I was the first to point out the similarity of Meyer's circuits and Bedini's circuits way back on icubenetwork before it got hacked and shut down.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VLYufVSJL8

What I personally observed a long time ago was my inner tubes started to get a pure white powder coating on them AND as this conditioning process went on, which is a conditioning process even if Meyer didn't have that same coating, the gas volume INCREASED consistently as the white powder coating became more evenly spread across the entire surface. This idea was based on actual experimental empirical evidence.

So, it is not a myth that it allows for higher voltage with less current with the benefit of increased gas production for less energy. It is a fact. Again, I'm not disputing you about Meyer having no coating.

But if anyone is saying that there is a myth stating Meyer had this coating...again, it was never claimed and my discovery has been taken out of context severely.

It is a dielectric coating, restricts current and allows high electrostatic pressure to be built up - as it does act as a capacitor. If there is no coating and even if the top ridge of the tubes are bare, the tubes are basically short circuited. I was able to measure up to hundreds of volts in that tube, while most reports I saw were lucky to measure over 2 volts...2 volts because it was short circuited.

This coating I have seen in batteries, and it helps to restrict current while allowing more voltage potential.

Obviously in the Meyer circuit the primary current restriction should be the bifilar chokes, which I believe should be wired em coupled and not in normal series.

It is also possible that Meyer's tubes have a thin layer of corona dope or similar to restrict current, while being invisible. If there is no coating, it is also possible only distilled water was used and no minerals were available - even though Meyer apparently used both distilled and tap water.

I have produced gas with distilled water, which indicates electrostatic separation and not current electrolysis. I didn't use medically grade triple distilled, just single distilled but there was still no conductivity.
So, while it is clear that a dielectric layer improves gas production, so far there has been a big question mark about what kind of coating Meyer might have used. Given that he used high voltages and hardly any amperage, there simply is no other way to accomplish that but to have some kind of insulating layer on the tubes, which would thus also be a dielectric layer. And since Meyer never talked about this, AFAIK, the most logic conclusion is that he must have used a pretty "standard" layer, but not so standard that it is present on the average stainless you can buy in any shop. Hence the conclusion he most likely used electropolished stainless, which gives a much thicker dielectric layer than other passivation processes, which explains why other experimenters have such a hard time replicating Meyer's system.


Now back to the vibration issue. While batteries do "cold boil" (produce H2/O2 gas) for up to an hour after shutting the power supply off and thus is clearly COP>1, this does not mean these cold boiling batteries produce a large amount of gas, probably even to the contrary.

So, we need to find a way to improve the amount of gas being produced, while still powering the process by the polarized dielectric. A simple way to do that is to keep the fluid in motion, thus increasing the number of water atoms entering the high field zone and this improving gas production, meanwhile also preventing gas bubbles from "sticking" to the surface of the tube.

And the most efficient way to keep the fluid in motion is to bring it in acoustic resonance, so the tubes act akin to organ pipes in the air. What is important to realize is that in this scenario it is the fluid that vibrates and not the tubes. So, acoustically tuning the tubes itself by tuning the resonance frequency of the metal - as in a musical triangle - would not make much of a difference, because things like mounting material attached to the tubes would change the acoustic resonance frequency of the tube itself, while not influencing the acoustic resonance frequency of the fluid column resonating in between the tubes while in operation.

So, while it is important to tune the resonance frequencies of the tubes, I don't think this should be done by tuning the "metal" resonance frequencies. As long as the pipes have the same length (and spacing between inner/outer tube), the acoustic resonance frequency of the water column should be largely the same.

As for the force being responsible for the vibration: this is the electrostatic field, which acts upon ions in the fluid and thus can be used as a force to keep the fluid in acoustic resonance. Of course, there is also a tiny attraction force between the metal tubes, but the metal to metal capacity is in the order of pico-farads and therefore IMHO there is no way you can get the metal itself into vibration using electrostatic forces.








freethisone

RE: When I see this stuff...
« Reply #24, on September 20th, 2013, 10:25 PM »Last edited on September 20th, 2013, 10:45 PM by freethisone

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDtXR_1Ubs8

this is the first movie i watched of yours.  i like the circuit. a self oscillator is perfectly fine.your bedini oscillator is amazing i would buy if it was available.. or you could try a self oscillation  static trigger like i have done in a tesla coil experiment.


but if you want to try an experiment add a large metal nut to the end of your wire spool. is that like an antenna? Tesla may consider this as adding a capacitor in this place causing a strong current to pass. it counteract the self inductance.

in any case you may find a very small metal nut placed at the end of that spool could increase output.. acting in series as a capacitor... Tesla specified metal plate..

what do u think?  i was also thinking along the lines of battery's...

how about duplicating  a Tesla:D cast iron tub battery. well over 120 volts. high salt concentration was used...

you could turn the dead sea into a gigantic battery...or even natural  salt flats.... :heart::heart: