What do you think Dog-one, you think ppl want to stop by force?
Suppose you went to bed one night and had a very interesting dream. In that dream you saw technology that was 50 to 100 years more advanced than anything we currently know about. What you saw was clear enough that you could build it. Maybe not fully understand it, but you could identify the pieces and assemble them as you saw it.Quote from AHL on August 10th, 2013, 06:14 AM What do you think Dog-one, you think ppl want to stop by force?
So you begin to gather supplies and put this device together, writing on the forum pretty much daily as construction unfolded. Then the strange emails, phone calls and visits start. This goes on for a couple of months, but you continue to make progress on your device. Now things get more serious. People you know start having weird accidents, you get pushed out of work for no apparent reason. And one day you walk into your garage to find things totally scrambled and your device missing. But you don't let that stop you; instead you get more parts and start building another one. That's about the time you find yourself in a hospital with tubes sticking out of your arms.
What I'm saying is yeah, this could happen to you, to me or anyone else doing this kind of research; I'm pretty certain it has happened to others. So what went wrong? Where was the first mistake made? I would say the biggest mistake was not getting the concept clearly documented and distributed immediately--within days of having the dream. Going at something like this as a lone wolf is a really bad idea. Even if you have the right attitude, the bad guys simply don't play fair. They won't fight you on even ground. They would rather add a few drops of poison to your water supply or some other sneaky rotten little trick. That tells you a lot about your enemy or better yet, your enemy's employer.
What we are doing here can be dangerous. Life in general is dangerous too, so one has to weigh the differences. Being a moderator of this forum, I have accepted the risk that a day might come when someone posts some very valuable information that will certainly put me in danger. I will have to do the right thing and be ready for any consequences. Beyond that, our power is in our numbers. They can't get us all and the truth will eventually get out. What I'd like to see is this: Instead of us living in fear of some sweeper team coming to our home and destroying our lives, I'd like to see our enemies in fear of us, knowing full well they cannot stop us, not all of us. For not stopping us, they will be punished. Let them sleep on that for a while and decide which team they'd rather be on.
So if I haven't made this point clear, let me reiterate. We are soldiers and we are at war. The battle has begun a long time ago. It's the same old good versus evil that has always been there. Each side thinks they are doing the right thing, but in the end there can only be one winner. For the meantime, the battle goes on.
Fisher and Paykel washing machine motors are 3 phase 1400w motors that make make power at about 600 rpm when wired as star. Use as a alternator instead of a motor.
Modify the stator with thicker wire, 1.6mm, and use neodynium magnets instead of the stock ceramics. This will bring output to around 2kva instead of 1400.
We join 10 F&P smart drive motor together. This = 20 kva.
20kva = 200v x 100a @ 600 rpm. The power needed to run this is 20kw obviously, but when we consider only 90% efficiency of the motors we need to add 10%. So power needed to run the motors is 22kw. How much Horse power is that? 22kw divided by 745 (1HP) = 29.5hp, we will say 30 hp. 30HP !!!!! you say, we have no power left in the engine to run any kind of generator you say. All is not lost.
The engine, a Honda XR 400 dirt bike engine. 400cc makes 35hp on gasoline at 6000rpm. (they rev to 9000). 6000 rpm!!!!! You say, and only 5 hp left to do what, you say. Ok fair comment, this is what we do.
First, 20kva = 107.5 LPM on a 64 plate cell with 500mm x 300mm plates. This will allow 125a to pass through. we will be using only 100a so cooling and efficience shouldnt be a problem. Nor should 107.5 LPM running 400cc at 6000rpm. (not tested yet, all is theory and yes i know theory is theory and actual tests are something else, but im making this now and ill get back to you).
So we have the LPM but still only have 5hp left spare and we cant make any power with that. So what do we do?
Remember i said the engine revs to 6000 but the Fisher and paykel motors only need to spin to 600rpm (approx, testing them as i speak). So we gear them down from the engine at 10:1 ratio. this slows the Fishers to operating speed. It also cuts by 10 times, the amount of torque needed to spin those Fishers. 30hp divided by 10 = 3 hp. 3 hp to make 22kva of power. a 35 hp motor minus 3 hp = 32hp spare. That leaves alot of power left over, so we can adust down the rpm or use a smaller engine. (but ill stick with this formula until ive actually done it).
So now we have power to run a genset head from the Honda xr400 engine as well. Add one Honda 6.5 magnet motor generator and bingo, power your house on water. Now if we want to get really funky, we instead can add car alternators, a few of them, and then run an electric car with no batteries. Worlds first Hydro/electric car.
More detail is involved than ive let on. Ask and you shall be given. Matt :)
This is a vid of me testing a Fisher and Paykel smart drive. These are plentiful in Australia and NZ. If you cannot source one in the USA, go to ebay, they are for sale on there or find a whirlpool/LG washing machine, they have a similar smart drive motor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSHLqIA3WFs&feature=youtu.be
You don't suppose someone threw us a bone with the smart drive do you--seems like an ultra efficient alternator.Quote from AHL on August 10th, 2013, 08:47 PM Fisher and Paykel washing machine motors are 3 phase 1400w motors that make make power at about 600 rpm when wired as star. Use as a alternator instead of a motor.
I am not sure what you mean by being thrown a bone lol.Okay, thicker wire will mean less turns and less voltage, but potential amperage should increase without burning anything up. I probably wouldn't screw with the magnets unless I was right on the edge and needed just a hair more out it.Quote from AHL on August 10th, 2013, 08:47 PM Modify the stator with thicker wire, 1.6mm, and use neodynium magnets instead of the stock ceramics. This will bring output to around 2kva instead of 1400.
It wont mean less voltage. It will mean more current and as thicker wire is more efficient it will mean more efficiencey. The reason it will not mean less voltage, and i agree your comment is usually true, there is enough room on the coils to put more wire than standard, so thicker wire and more of it.With a really good cell, figure about 200 to 250 watts per liter per minute. So on the bad side, we would need 25kW to hit 100 LpM. The trick will be to build a custom cell with just the right size and number of plates to match our input power. I can help you along there when you're ready.Quote from AHL on August 10th, 2013, 08:47 PM We join 10 F&P smart drive motor together. This = 20 kva.
20kva = 200v x 100a @ 600 rpm. The power needed to run this is 20kw obviously, but when we consider only 90% efficiency of the motors we need to add 10%. So power needed to run the motors is 22kw. How much Horse power is that? 22kw divided by 745 (1HP) = 29.5hp, we will say 30 hp. 30HP !!!!! you say, we have no power left in the engine to run any kind of generator you say. All is not lost.
The engine, a Honda XR 400 dirt bike engine. 400cc makes 35hp on gasoline at 6000rpm. (they rev to 9000). 6000 rpm!!!!! You say, and only 5 hp left to do what, you say. Ok fair comment, this is what we do.
First, 20kva = 107.5 LPM on a 64 plate cell with 500mm x 300mm plates. This will allow 125a to pass through. we will be using only 100a so cooling and efficience shouldnt be a problem. Nor should 107.5 LPM running 400cc at 6000rpm. (not tested yet, all is theory and yes i know theory is theory and actual tests are something else, but im making this now and ill get back to you).
Yes, i have a cell configurator, this is how i came to my numbers. BTW, it will be a splitter cell.
Edit: No no, that line of thinking isnt correct from what i can tell. U see we cant just evaluate watts for LPM. We need to evaluate Volts and amps. Not quite the same because we are valuating the values of each seperatly and not as a whole. If we have lots of volts then we can have lots of plates. The more plates means the more surface area for the amps to do their job and amps are always maxed according too faraday.Anytime you can get a ten to one mechanical advantage, you definitely improve the odds of making something work. So lets calculate backwards here for a moment and see what we get.Quote from AHL on August 10th, 2013, 08:47 PM So we have the LPM but still only have 5hp left spare and we cant make any power with that. So what do we do?
Remember i said the engine revs to 6000 but the Fisher and paykel motors only need to spin to 600rpm (approx, testing them as i speak). So we gear them down from the engine at 10:1 ratio. this slows the Fishers to operating speed. It also cuts by 10 times, the amount of torque needed to spin those Fishers. 30hp divided by 10 = 3 hp. 3 hp to make 22kva of power. a 35 hp motor minus 3 hp = 32hp spare. That leaves alot of power left over, so we can adust down the rpm or use a smaller engine. (but ill stick with this formula until ive actually done it).
A typical generator engine here in the States runs at 3600 RPM so the generator will output 60Hz AC. So lets, play with a 6:1 drive ratio for a moment. One would suspect then, the smart drive requires six times the torque of a comparable generator, but only needs to run at 1/6th the speed to produce equal power output. If that is true, we have a break-even condition, meaning the engine still sees the same load at 3600 RPM, even though the smart drive is only turning at 600 RPM. This is what I suspect and it will be really nice if you prove my hunch wrong.
Yes correct, most gensets run at 3600 rpm. This is why we cannot use them, they are also inefficient as they usually are not magnet motors. A ficher and Paykel motor require the same amount of power to run it, efficience for efficiency as any other generator. Its just that it make that same power at much lower rpm. Many other PMA's are similar. If im understanding your comments correctly, then its incorrect. Lets say like a normal genset like u have in the USA, they run a 1:1 ratio solid drive. If you were to run the fishers at peak power band, like conventions do at 3600 rpm, the fishers and drive engine will only be spinning at 600rpm at 1:1 ratio. But, with the fisher requiring 1.4 kva (stock) there would not be enough power left in the engine to drive anything else. Luckily, due to the low rpm requirements of the fishers, we can under drive them, 10:1. This slows the fishers to produce its optimal power peak as well at the same time decreasing by a factor of 10 the torque requirement placed on the engine assuming the engine will spin at around 6000rpm. Engine 6000rpm/fishers 600rpm. 10:1 drop.I'm certainly listening, you got my attention. What we need to verify is the shaft horsepower required by the smart drive to really output 25kW. That's a lot of juice and I would think it would take some incredibly big wires to handle that as well as a lot of torque to turn it. Those smart drives are not Low Lenz devices. You can tell because the magnetic flux lines cut through the copper conductors. So my hunch is you'll pay for every watt you get out of them.Quote from AHL on August 10th, 2013, 08:47 PM So now we have power to run a genset head from the Honda xr400 engine as well. Add one Honda 6.5 magnet motor generator and bingo, power your house on water. Now if we want to get really funky, we instead can add car alternators, a few of them, and then run an electric car with no batteries. Worlds first Hydro/electric car.
More detail is involved than ive let on. Ask and you shall be given. Matt :)
This is a vid of me testing a Fisher and Paykel smart drive. These are plentiful in Australia and NZ. If you cannot source one in the USA, go to ebay, they are for sale on there or find a whirlpool/LG washing machine, they have a similar smart drive motor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSHLqIA3WFs&feature=youtu.be
Yes, well im doing my testing now as we speak. Did you see the video link i placed? Im unsure what a low lenz is im sorry. Im hoping for each smart drive to make 200v and only 10 amp.(i can wire them to 6 phase or whatever combination i need to acheive this) As there are 10 of these, i will wire them in parrallel. This means my output should be still 200v but 10a x 10 a =100a. But that 100 amp will be wired in parallel directly to the cell plate from bridge rectifiers. So each fishers will have its own power outlet direct to the cell drive. This means i only need 10a wire, well 15 a for obvious reasons. each phase of each drive and each drive will have a 35a/400v bridge rectifier.
Don't be discourage by what I say. Keep at it. My somewhat pessimistic attitude comes from seeing a lot of things like this and unless I see a device that is clearly designed in such a way to avoid one or more of Mother Nature's Laws (like Lenz), it's hard for me to get too optimistic.
I am not sure what you mean by being thrown a bone lol.
It wont mean less voltage. It will mean more current and as thicker wire is more efficient it will mean more efficiencey. The reason it will not mean less voltage, and i agree your comment is usually true, there is enough room on the coils to put more wire than standard, so thicker wire and more of it.
Yes correct, most gensets run at 3600 rpm. This is why we cannot use them, they are also inefficient as they usually are not magnet motors. A ficher and Paykel motor require the same amount of power to run it, efficience for efficiency as any other generator. Its just that it make that same power at much lower rpm. Many other PMA's are similar. If im understanding your comments correctly, then its incorrect. Lets say like a normal genset like u have in the USA, they run a 1:1 ratio solid drive. If you were to run the fishers at peak power band, like conventions do at 3600 rpm, the fishers and drive engine will only be spinning at 600rpm at 1:1 ratio. But, with the fisher requiring 1.4 kva (stock) there would not be enough power left in the engine to drive anything else. Luckily, due to the low rpm requirements of the fishers, we can under drive them, 10:1. This slows the fishers to produce its optimal power peak as well at the same time decreasing by a factor of 10 the torque requirement placed on the engine assuming the engine will spin at around 6000rpm. Engine 6000rpm/fishers 600rpm. 10:1 drop.
Yes, well im doing my testing now as we speak. Did you see the video link i placed?
Im unsure what a low lenz is im sorry.
Im hoping for each smart drive to make 200v and only 10 amp.(i can wire them to 6 phase or whatever combination i need to acheive this) As there are 10 of these, i will wire them in parrallel. This means my output should be still 200v but 10a x 10 a =100a. But that 100 amp will be wired in parallel directly to the cell plate from bridge rectifiers. So each fishers will have its own power outlet direct to the cell drive. This means i only need 10a wire, well 15 a for obvious reasons. each phase of each drive and each drive will have a 35a/400v bridge rectifier.
Hey no, im cool with your questions. Scrutiny just highlights flaws so we can address them. I havnt built this yet so its all theory. 8 weeks ago i knew nothing about electricity, so ive been teaching myself so i can do this. I could make the most simple of mistakes and not be aware of it. theres a difference between dissing somebody and genuine scrutiny. Your doin ok, i appreciate the reply actually and do ask any more questions, dont feel afraid to ask or to point out potential problems, thanks. regards, Matt
Maybe the Powers That Be felt sorry for us and allowed someone to manufacture these smart drives as a hint--there's a better motor/generator out there than what you would normally use. I doubt that's really true, but who knows--you may be the first.Quote from AHL on August 11th, 2013, 02:41 AM I am not sure what you mean by being thrown a bone lol.
Asshats lmao. Well seems they playin game with us hey lol. maybee they think we so silly they want to try help us. well ill throw that right back at em and make it. hahaha :)If you can keep the same number of turns with thicker wire, you're all set. Do note, more current, more Lenz Law to deal with. I'll explain that here in a bit.Quote from AHL on August 10th, 2013, 08:47 PM It wont mean less voltage. It will mean more current and as thicker wire is more efficient it will mean more efficiencey. The reason it will not mean less voltage, and i agree your comment is usually true, there is enough room on the coils to put more wire than standard, so thicker wire and more of it.
Yes correct. Theres 3 different stators as you saw me explain in the video and they all make the same power in watts. So 1.6 is 60% bigger than 1mm wire. You know, it might be a good idea to go to 1.4 instead. Ill need to try some wire on a pole and see how it goes. You are also aware from my video that Volts is high and amps are low. Trading a little volts for some amps is exactly what i need.My point wasn't obvious I reckon. What I was getting at is if these smart drives work as an alternator and are that much better than a conventional generator, one has to ask themselves why no genset currently uses them. Seems to me Briggs & Straton could mass produce a genset that has half the size motor and twice the output power pretty easily.Quote from AHL on August 10th, 2013, 08:47 PM Yes correct, most gensets run at 3600 rpm. This is why we cannot use them, they are also inefficient as they usually are not magnet motors. A ficher and Paykel motor require the same amount of power to run it, efficience for efficiency as any other generator. Its just that it make that same power at much lower rpm. Many other PMA's are similar. If im understanding your comments correctly, then its incorrect. Lets say like a normal genset like u have in the USA, they run a 1:1 ratio solid drive. If you were to run the fishers at peak power band, like conventions do at 3600 rpm, the fishers and drive engine will only be spinning at 600rpm at 1:1 ratio. But, with the fisher requiring 1.4 kva (stock) there would not be enough power left in the engine to drive anything else. Luckily, due to the low rpm requirements of the fishers, we can under drive them, 10:1. This slows the fishers to produce its optimal power peak as well at the same time decreasing by a factor of 10 the torque requirement placed on the engine assuming the engine will spin at around 6000rpm. Engine 6000rpm/fishers 600rpm. 10:1 drop.
Well they do. The latest gensets are PMA (permanent magnet alternators) But they still make power up high. What it means is they can run lower rpm when not drawing full power from them. They are digitally controlled for rpm now. http://www.hondaenergy.com/product.php/42/honda_eu65is They are also rectified from 3 phase ac to dc then back to ac. these are pure sine wave and u can run laptops or anything u like off them. You cant do that with conventional gensets. Are they the same as a fisher and paykel? No. Motorcycles often have a similar stator to the fisher and paykel.I did. Impressive little setup you have going there.Quote from AHL on August 10th, 2013, 08:47 PM Yes, well im doing my testing now as we speak. Did you see the video link i placed?http://www.kPooij-pmt.com/Lenz%E2%80%99s-lawQuote from AHL on August 10th, 2013, 08:47 PM Im unsure what a low lenz is im sorry.
http://www.theoryofabsolutes.com/lenzslaw.html
This is what makes you pay for converting rotational motion into electricity. It's where the number 1 Horse Power = 745 watts comes from.
Ah, now i see. Well you can get axial flux alts and these have no core. These are usually made for wind power. Thats why there is no core. But you can add a core to them and when you do it creats too much drag on the alt at low rpm. But they will make more power. So yes it adds to the power needed to run them, but they also make more power, sort off thus compensating. I dont know too much about it but i gather as long as efficiency is there, they not an issue.I found that if you run your AC out to a bridge rectifier, then a big filter cap, you get nice smooth power to run your cell with. Much easier to measure your actual wattage too.Quote from AHL on August 10th, 2013, 08:47 PM Im hoping for each smart drive to make 200v and only 10 amp.(i can wire them to 6 phase or whatever combination i need to acheive this) As there are 10 of these, i will wire them in parrallel. This means my output should be still 200v but 10a x 10 a =100a. But that 100 amp will be wired in parallel directly to the cell plate from bridge rectifiers. So each fishers will have its own power outlet direct to the cell drive. This means i only need 10a wire, well 15 a for obvious reasons. each phase of each drive and each drive will have a 35a/400v bridge rectifier.
Yes. These make over 700hz. So quite smooth yes. But a cap would change out the frequency to be slower, i would assume. Good idea, i had thought about using caps. Maybe later after i got it all working cause i dont see the need for them just yet. Another thing i want to do is try a Stan Meyers cell powered by a single Fishers. I doubt it would do what meyers acheived but it would be an interesting experiment.My friend in NZ (New Zealand) made me a 11 cell meyers exact replica, cheep too lol. Just waiting on some plastic bits atm.Keep posting as you go and I'll gladly look over your shoulder. Maybe I can spot something that has you tangled up.Quote from AHL on August 10th, 2013, 08:47 PM Hey no, im cool with your questions. Scrutiny just highlights flaws so we can address them. I havnt built this yet so its all theory. 8 weeks ago i knew nothing about electricity, so ive been teaching myself so i can do this. I could make the most simple of mistakes and not be aware of it. theres a difference between dissing somebody and genuine scrutiny. Your doin ok, i appreciate the reply actually and do ask any more questions, dont feel afraid to ask or to point out potential problems, thanks. regards, Matt
All good stuff Matt. Certainly yes, do start a thread in the project section and keep us up to date on your progress.
Something else to think about. Sterling Allan over as PESN has been tracking a whole bunch of motor/generator projects that claim at least partial over-unity.
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Motor-Generator_Self-Looped_with_Usable_Energy_Left_Over
Do you suppose it might be worth looking into before you go to all the trouble of powering an engine on HHO. Certainly taking a relatively inefficient engine and HHO cell out of the equation may give better results. Just a thought. If for no other reason, at least take a look, you may get some ideas along the way.
I would say the biggest mistake was not getting the concept clearly documented and distributed immediately--within days of having the dream. Going at something like this as a lone wolf is a really bad idea. Even if you have the right attitude, the bad guys simply don't play fair.
Great post and good question .............
So here is an idea ..
On this site we have an area where people can post the ideas/inventions (like a little patent office) where by the ideas/inventions are uploaded into the public domain as a zip file with a description, drawings and photographs etc. and automatically shared with other affiliated sites increasing the chance of the idea/invention reaching the right people and not disappearing into obscurity like so many before.?
Sharing knowledge is the way forward ...
Peace :)
Is there a question there?Quote from Darenzo on September 16th, 2013, 06:36 AM Great post and good question .............
So here is an idea ..
On this site we have an area where people can post the ideas/inventions (like a little patent office) where by the ideas/inventions are uploaded into the public domain as a zip file with a description, drawings and photographs etc. and automatically shared with other affiliated sites increasing the chance of the idea/invention reaching the right people and not disappearing into obscurity like so many before.?
Sharing knowledge is the way forward ...
Peace :)
Or just exactly what do you mean?
If anyone has something groundbreaking to offer to the World we'd be most grateful if that something gets posted here, together with all the necessary documents etc that which you need in order to be able to replicate it for yourself, that's the very meaning of this forum.
It really doesn't matter where it gets posted on the forum per se, we (the staff) sees to it to move it to the proper place if so needed
OK so you don't get what I was saying ..
The point I was making is that it would be far easier and more effective to share ideas if they were "automatically shared with other affiliated sites " without relying on you or whoever to send it to the "proper place" . If for example someone posted a design that would be a major threat to the oil industry this site would be shut down and probably deleted within minuets .. ! If you know how and have the money to pay for it ...its easy ? How many servers is this site backed up on? (don't answer that ) .. What this and other sites like this needs in my opinion is a contingency plan . !
For example Mr X has his design for a revolutionary fuel cell but is under threat from the men in the black van out side who are about to kick his door in and take all his research .. Mr x can have his contingency plan where by his fuel cell plans are uploaded to the area on this or another site and is automatically shared with all the other affiliated sites increasing its chances of survival ..
I am amazed that this issue has not been addressed before as the governments of this world will do whatever it takes to keep the oil industry running because the stakes are so high .
Aha, thanks for clarifying.Quote from Darenzo on September 17th, 2013, 09:00 AM OK so you don't get what I was saying ..
The point I was making is that it would be far easier and more effective to share ideas if they were "automatically shared with other affiliated sites " without relying on you or whoever to send it to the "proper place" . If for example someone posted a design that would be a major threat to the oil industry this site would be shut down and probably deleted within minuets .. ! If you know how and have the money to pay for it ...its easy ? How many servers is this site backed up on? (don't answer that ) .. What this and other sites like this needs in my opinion is a contingency plan . !
For example Mr X has his design for a revolutionary fuel cell but is under threat from the men in the black van out side who are about to kick his door in and take all his research .. Mr x can have his contingency plan where by his fuel cell plans are uploaded to the area on this or another site and is automatically shared with all the other affiliated sites increasing its chances of survival ..
I am amazed that this issue has not been addressed before as the governments of this world will do whatever it takes to keep the oil industry running because the stakes are so high .
Well, I'm not going to go into details, let's just say we (the staff here) are way ahead of you on that one........
Lynx with all due respect dude..
But your statement above does nothing to convince me .!
The fact that you are not sharing any information regarding the safety of this web sites content I find disturbing ... I don't want details but what's the point of having a contingency plan when nobody knows about it ? That would be for your benefit not ours . Besides you could be working for opec ;)
Any one else on this forum have an opinion ??
wow guys only moderators interested in this subject !
All i need is jeff and russ to comment and i got the full set .. :D
I appreciate that the moderators have this web site in hand and have the necessary
backup plan in place for this site. But if you read my original post .. my point was that
if ideas/inventions were uploaded to an area . (for the specific purpose of sharing globaly) They would then be automatically shared (copied to) other affiliated sites creating a global back up of the idea/invention instantly .. Creating a safer distribution and a safer place to share . Its only with a strong global network in place that we can change the world for the better Because the "MAN" has the power and money and all we have is each other !.. ....food for thought guys :)