that´s interesting but Stan´s driver doesn´t operate in the linear range but is a digital puse driver.

his voltage regulation is linear but it´s perfect linearity doesn´t play an important role.

Quote from Gunther Rattay on August 25th, 2015, 02:13 AM

that´s interesting but Stan´s driver doesn´t operate in the linear range but is a digital puse driver.

Big difference between pulsing a coil  at low frequency, compared to pulsing a coil with  high dv/dt edges cleanly at high frequency.

"Linearity refers to the ability of the amplifier to produce signals that are accurate copies of the input, generally at increased power levels. Load impedance, supply voltage, input bias current, and power output capabilities can affect the efficiency of the amplifier."
linear amplifier~ wiki

More info if you are not convinced yet.
The reason no one here has got an output that is clean at the higher frequencies, is because of the "Miller Effect"! :

"As most amplifiers are inverting (A_v as defined above is positive), the effective capacitance at their inputs is increased due to the Miller effect. This can reduce the bandwidth of the amplifier, restricting its range of operation to lower frequencies. The tiny junction and stray capacitances between the base and collector terminals of a Darlington transistor, for example, may be drastically increased by the Miller effects due to its high gain, lowering the high frequency response of the device.
It is also important to note that the Miller capacitance is the capacitance seen looking into the input. If looking for all of the RC time constants (poles) it is important to include as well the capacitance seen by the output. The capacitance on the output is often neglected since it sees {C}({1+1/A_v}) and amplifier outputs are typically low impedance. However if the amplifier has a high impedance output, such as if a gain stage is also the output stage, then this RC can have a significant impact on the performance of the amplifier."  !!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller_effect

So what Stan did was use a "cascode" at the input via the circuit logic (which I replaced with two opto's for maximum input-to-output isolation from HV):

"The cascode is a two-stage amplifier composed of a single transconductance amplifier (usually a common source/emitter stage) followed by a current follower (usually a common gate/base stage ). Compared to a single amplifier stage, this combination may have one or more of the following advantages: higher input-output isolation, higher input impedance, higher output impedance, higher gain or higher bandwidth. In modern circuits, the cascode is often constructed from two transistors (BJTs or FETs), with one operating as a common emitter/source and the other as a common base/gate. The cascode improves input-output isolation (or reverse transmission) as there is less direct coupling from the output to input. This greatly reduces the Miller multiplication of stray coupling capacitance between input and output and thus contributes to a much higher bandwidth......
 This upper transistor is referred to as the cascode device. Because at high frequencies the cascode transistor's base/gate is effectively grounded by DC voltage source VBias, the cascode device's emitter / source voltage (and therefore the lower input transistor's collector / drain) is held at a more constant voltage during operation. In other words, the cascode device exhibits a low input resistance to the lower transistor, making the voltage gain seen at the collector / drain of the lower device very small, which dramatically reduces the Miller feedback capacitance from the lower transistor's collector to base or drain to gate. This loss of voltage gain is recovered by the cascode transistor. Thus, the cascode transistor permits the lower common emitter / source stage to operate with minimum negative (Miller) feedback, improving the bandwidth of the overall amplifier. ........
If the cascode device stage were operated alone using its emitter or source as input node (i.e. common base/gate configuration), it would have good voltage gain and wide bandwidth. However, its low input impedance would limit its usefulness to very low impedance voltage drivers. Adding the lower common emitter/source stage results in an increased input impedance, allowing the cascode stage to be driven by a higher impedance source. "

http://wiki.analog.com/university/courses/electronics/text/chapter-10

^ page also has good info on "Complementary Pair Amplifiers"
 

to davy oneness, a bit offtopic, any chance at some stage you could have a look at this thread
http://open-source-energy.org/?topic=132.25
it relates to stans water heating circuit, I was trying to reverse engineer it, went as far as I could,
but needs someone with good electronics knowledge to chime in.

Quote from brettly on August 25th, 2015, 10:19 PM

to davy oneness, a bit offtopic, any chance at some stage you could have a look at this thread
http://open-source-energy.org/?topic=132.25
it relates to stans water heating circuit, I was trying to reverse engineer it, went as far as I could,
but needs someone with good electronics knowledge to chime in.

Done, and totally on topic, because this Arduino project is also going to have to accommodate controlling this. It keeps the water in the tank from freezing in the winter with a lower power input than anything else available on market (and could be used for economical home hot water production), but it may also "prime" the water so it splits that much faster .

Where are the arduino coders at? I'm a newbie, and can't get my head wrapped around doing the programming math yet. So can someone good please add a mode to the program so that the main higher frequency is always the 11th harmonic of the gate frequency? Pretty please? it would be huge, I mean huge.
My source on this train of thought comes from research on making tiny organisms explode at their resonant frequency, and it turns out what they found that in all cases, is the main frequency was the 11th harmonic of the gating frequency.

check out at about 7min 5 seconds :

https://youtu.be/1w0_kazbb_U?t=7m5s

Quote from Davy Oneness on August 26th, 2015, 08:30 PM

My source on this train of thought comes from research on making tiny organisms explode at their resonant frequency, and it turns out what they found that in all cases, is the main frequency was the 11th harmonic of the gating frequency.

Royal Raymond Rife figured this out decades ago.  Unfortunately the corrupt medical community buried this technology.  They would much rather prefer you stay sick until all your finances are drained, then have you die.  There's no money in having you treat yourself and be healthy.

I suppose if one had the funds, they could experiment with this gizmo:
http://rense.com/products/rifeb1.htm

Quote from Davy Oneness on August 26th, 2015, 08:30 PM

Where are the arduino coders at? I'm a newbie, and can't get my head wrapped around doing the programming math yet. So can someone good please add a mode to the program so that the main higher frequency is always the 11th harmonic of the gate frequency? Pretty please? it would be huge, I mean huge.
My source on this train of thought comes from research on making tiny organisms explode at their resonant frequency, and it turns out what they found that in all cases, is the main frequency was the 11th harmonic of the gating frequency.

check out at about 7min 5 seconds :

https://youtu.be/1w0_kazbb_U?t=7m5s

With PGen 2.0 pulse generator you can do these harmonics.

Quote from Gunther Rattay on August 27th, 2015, 12:09 AM

With PGen 2.0 pulse generator you can do these harmonics.

On further thought, gate(T3) output code would just have to be the main frequency(T1) with a "divide by 11" function

Quote from Matt Watts on August 27th, 2015, 12:04 AM

Royal Raymond Rife figured this out decades ago.  Unfortunately the corrupt medical community buried this technology.  They would much rather prefer you stay sick until all your finances are drained, then have you die.  There's no money in having you treat yourself and be healthy.

I suppose if one had the funds, they could experiment with this gizmo:
http://rense.com/products/rifeb1.htm

The Barre patent they refer to is the same one Rife used and had made for him by Barre.
cheaper experiment would be a 11th harmonic programmed arduino outputted to a plasma globe!

Stan using a pull down trigger to pulse the driver, is like having a loaded spring with a hair trigger release and a rapid recoil reset. As opposed to the way everyone has been trying to trigger all their FE circuits, which is more akin to kicking in the trigger with your foot and the primitive trigger mechanism drags across itself, and the spring, adding losses in its recoil speed and power output......then you can only go so fast, and when you do try doing it too fast, the whole operation gets unstable quickly........

at 7min in this video, on the board, you can see the driver drawn out for driving the coil like I have shown.
at 11min52,he talks about the "nice" signal from their "computer" and Stan's Brother states "as long as this switch opens to high or low at very fast rise and fall times, you're not dissipating any energy"!

https://youtu.be/OXctY1K4wko

Quote from Davy Oneness on August 23rd, 2015, 07:44 PM

Stan kept it simple, and he used his driver configuration AND the 220ohm resistor ACROSS the coil for a reason. After studying the original schematic from the estate, I can see what he is doing.......and why no one can get clean signal switching the coil. His brilliant coil driver is a sort of complementary, or Sziklai Transistor Pair type of AMPLIFIER(we want an electrostatic "tone" in the cell) driven by a pull down resistor at its input.
Also, forget adding extra logic gates and mosfet drivers, we just need 2 series Opto-isolator with t1 and t3 outputs flashing their LEDs. And I have seen the parallel resistor to the coil used to get  clean switching in the same frequency range we want to work with here, hence why Stan used it. It is there for more than just keeping the coil cool. So here is my updated version of the driver,IMHO, to use with arduino outputs:

We never experience signal distortion using a power MosFet and a MosFet driver. frequency range is 0 to > 100 kHz for our electronic switches and all the effects you are talking about may have been a problem in the early 90s but not today. We combine the power stage with those resistors and diodes you are reflecting on and it all works very well.

Quote from Gunther Rattay on August 28th, 2015, 02:14 AM

Quote from Gunther Rattay on August 28th, 2015, 02:14 AM

We never experience signal distortion using a power MosFet and a MosFet driver. frequency range is 0 to > 100 kHz for our electronic switches and all the effects you are talking about may have been a problem in the early 90s but not today. We combine the power stage with those resistors and diodes you are reflecting on and it all works very well.

What do you define as "very well", because I don't see anyone here with "it". Otherwise you would have to show me a scope shot of your rise and fall times for me to really believe that, and even better if you can compare to Stans original circuit ( you know, actually testing original circuits first before changing them) .
But regardless if you use transistors or mosfets, a three stage amplifier still beats a one stage amplifier.We are looking for Instant on and off, no transitions in switching. This is required and is being over looked, I thinks.

Quote from Davy Oneness link=msg=34261

But regardless if you use transistors or mosfets, a three stage amplifier still beats a one stage amplifier.We are looking for Instant on and off, no transitions in switching. This is required and is being over looked, I thinks.

How many stages do you think does a mosfet driver have? Less than 2?

No.



is it optimized for switching?

Yes.

You told that people have problems with switching.

Any scopeshots?

Switching  is  the easiest part of stan's technology ...

Quote from Gunther Rattay on August 28th, 2015, 10:08 AM

How many stages do you think does a mosfet driver have? Less than 2?

No.



is it optimized for switching?

Yes.

You told that people have problems with switching.

Any scopeshots?

Switching  is  the easiest part of stan's technology ...

I have seen lots of opto-darlington switching of single transistors and fets around here and else where, and maybe some fet drivers, but even those aren't using the resistor across the coil, which is important, IMO.
If truly  fast DV/DT stable highspeed power switching was as easy as just throwing a driver on a FET, professional pulse generators would have been cheaper and simpler a long time ago, among many other things.
If you want to see the scope shots of what I am talking about, check out the video at time referenced, which  I already posted, and hear it from the horses mouth.

"Switching  is  the easiest part of stan's technology ..."
Sure, says the guy who hasn't got the technology working yet........

Some reading:
http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/177911/driving-highly-inductive-loads-destroys-mosfet-driver

Quote from Gunther Rattay on April 24th, 2013, 04:15 AM

Good progress! Much better than your very first version.

Unfortunately I have no Arduino for test and the next month there is some lack of time.

Some ideas:

1. If I´m correct you measure feedback voltage once a ms. your pulse frequency is between 18 kHz and 500 Hz. that means that pulsing is much faster than voltage scan. so I suggest to take feedback pulse and integrate it´s voltage by using a RC component.

2. maybe a good idea to expand the program for frequency and duty cycle scale stretching. that way you can use standard pots but have frequency changed in the Hz scale and a slight movement at the pot doesn´t change frequency by 100s of Hz.

Keep on your enriching work!

Quote from zchiotis on April 24th, 2013, 03:22 PM

I know. You mean that the time the code reads the voltage from the transformer,
the waveform of the wave may be at zero, and that will result in a false reading indeed.
I agree!
This might be achieved by a very high pass filter.? That for frequencies below 20kHz
will stretch the waveform at all and give a straight DC to the reading?
You mean for example 10.7Hz??
At the moment readings from the potentiometer are mapped to 1 - 120Hz for gating.
The onboard analog to digital converter is 10bit and returns numbers from 0 to 1023 to the code. (0 is 0volts - 1023 is 5volts).
Then the reading is mapped to the said range and the steps are 1Hz since we work with integer variables.
Same is happening for duty cycle.
We can make it with double variables so the gating frequency or duty can change with 10bit steps.
Hi, thanks for your idea I will play with gates and try it.
Also thanks for the scope. I hadn't discovered that so far...

Thank you very much for your support.
I am not very good at electronics and your help and ideas are really aprecciated.

Zissis

http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/112347/how-to-make-a-peak-detector-circuit


That one may do the job for max. voltage detection :)

Quote from Davy Oneness on August 28th, 2015, 04:16 PM

I have seen lots of opto-darlington switching of single transistors and fets around here and else where, and maybe some fet drivers, but even those aren't using the resistor across the coil, which is important, IMO.
If truly  fast DV/DT stable highspeed power switching was as easy as just throwing a driver on a FET, professional pulse generators would have been cheaper and simpler a long time ago, among many other things.
If you want to see the scope shots of what I am talking about, check out the video at time referenced, which  I already posted, and hear it from the horses mouth.

"Switching  is  the easiest part of stan's technology ..."
Sure, says the guy who hasn't got the technology working yet........

Some reading:
http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/177911/driving-highly-inductive-loads-destroys-mosfet-driver

you are correct - sharp edges are important to avoid losses and overheating problems.

nevertheless they are easily esablished in many ways ...

Posts in this thread and others all over the place here show that the main subjects of Stan Meyer technology are somewhere else but in the switching part.

start to build and you will know ;)


btw professional pulse generators for laboratory purpose don´t go for power pulses. they focus on precision, versatility and are operated as a time base.

their output impedance is 50 ohms and their rise and fall times are well defined short and adjustable.

one shot pulse generators for high voltage generation are something totally different. they implement huge amounts of pulse forming network components.

so what kind of professional pulse generators are you referring to???


the video sections you have marked are stating that sharp edges are produced. Ok.
the video shows mechanical injector noise in the 100s hz range or less.

how can you analyze the rise/fall time of a square wave on that scope in the 100s hz range? is it ns/us/ms???
you can´t - until you stretch the timebase ...

Quote from Gunther Rattay on August 28th, 2015, 11:42 PM

so what kind of professional pulse generators are you referring to???

I am referring to the type I use to use for years as a nuclear instrumentation technician:
Rise Time ≤ 8 ns @ 200 V to 950 V
http://ixyscolorado.com/index.php/dei-scientific-instruments/dei-scientific-pulse-generators-laser-diode-drivers/hv-pulse-generator-modules/item/pvm-1001-950v-pulse-generator-module?gclid=CMfP38W9zscCFVY9gQodmM0Jfw

or these that can simulate the 3ns rise of a nuclear pulse (that should be a big HINT to everyone) :
http://www.fastcomtec.com/products/nuclearpulse.html

And I'm still waiting to see  Gunther's scope shot across his coil with or without gas production. If not, then maybe you can start to build and you will then know what I am talking about ? And then you can share something other than your arm chair criticisms? How long have you been in here? You have no scope shots you can show us of your mosfet outputs??No disclosure on your supposed rise and fall times?? And I am suppose to take what you are saying seriously? or are you trying to get people to not take serious what I am sharing? And what does it take to be a "hero member" around here? certainly not based  on building things in here and sharing the info..... Maybe you shouldn't answer that, I have little patience with "internet trolls" and will most likely just ignore so not to feed this time wasting exchange. Have a Great day, and you can look forward to my progress ;)
 

Quote from Davy Oneness on August 29th, 2015, 07:57 AM

...
 Have a Great day, and you can look forward to my progress ;)

Future will tell ...

Quote from Davy Oneness on August 29th, 2015, 07:57 AM

I am referring to the type I use to use for years as a nuclear instrumentation technician:
Rise Time ≤ 8 ns @ 200 V to 950 V
http://ixyscolorado.com/index.php/dei-scientific-instruments/dei-scientific-pulse-generators-laser-diode-drivers/hv-pulse-generator-modules/item/pvm-1001-950v-pulse-generator-module?gclid=CMfP38W9zscCFVY9gQodmM0Jfw

or these that can simulate the 3ns rise of a nuclear pulse (that should be a big HINT to everyone) :
http://www.fastcomtec.com/products/nuclearpulse.html

And I'm still waiting to see  Gunther's scope shot across his coil with or without gas production. If not, then maybe you can start to build and you will then know what I am talking about ? And then you can share something other than your arm chair criticisms? How long have you been in here? You have no scope shots you can show us of your mosfet outputs??No disclosure on your supposed rise and fall times?? And I am suppose to take what you are saying seriously? or are you trying to get people to not take serious what I am sharing? And what does it take to be a "hero member" around here? certainly not based  on building things in here and sharing the info..... Maybe you shouldn't answer that, I have little patience with "internet trolls" and will most likely just ignore so not to feed this time wasting exchange. Have a Great day, and you can look forward to my progress ;)

you can get the rise and fall times for 6R099, the mosfet I usually use from http://www.datasheetarchive.com/dl/Datasheet-081/DASF0034903.pdf
and get the rise and fall times of TC442x from it´s data sheet. if necessary I use other mosfets and other drivers like TC445x. Of course you have to take gate capacitance and driver output specs into account.

2 years ago my partner and me started to publish scope shots and details about our Stan Meyer work here but in the meantime they have been deleted.

You can find it at www.hereticalbuilders.com now.

you can find lots of information about PGen 2.0 pulse generator and my electronic switch here in the forum.

Sorry, you are late.


btw if you want the primary pulsing be optimized then use a LARGE buffer capacitor with low ESR at sufficient voltage range directly parallel to coil and switch to avoid voltage breakdown during primary pulsing and to protect your power supply from weird regulation :).

that component shows that hard switching takes place in fact and our MosFets don´t get overheated during operation ;)

Quote from Gunther Rattay on August 29th, 2015, 10:39 AM

you can get the rise and fall times for 6R099, the mosfet I usually use from http://www.datasheetarchive.com/dl/Datasheet-081/DASF0034903.pdf
and get the rise and fall times of TC442x from it´s data sheet. if necessary I use other mosfets and other drivers like TC445x. Of course you have to take gate capacitance and driver output specs into account.

2 years ago my partner and me started to publish scope shots and details about our Stan Meyer work here but in the meantime they have been deleted.

You can find it at www.hereticalbuilders.com now.

you can find lots of information about PGen 2.0 pulse generator and my electronic switch here in the forum.

Sorry, you are late.


btw if you want the primary pulsing be optimized then use a LARGE buffer capacitor with low ESR at sufficient voltage range directly parallel to coil and switch to avoid voltage breakdown during primary pulsing and to protect your power supply from weird regulation :).

that component shows that hard switching takes place in fact and our MosFets don´t get overheated during operation ;)

I'm late for what? No one has anything working! hahaha are you for real?
You don't have a direct link to what you're talking about? Don't waste my time with a bail of needles telling me to find your needle.
You deleted your scope shots off the open source forum, what am I to work with, nothing but just wasting my time going around in circles with you. So one last time, just because a component is rated to be able to produce something under certain circumstances, doesn't mean you are getting it at your coil at high frequency. I am not saying that mosfets and mosfet drivers couldn't be used in some way, but until someone can prove it with a scope shot AT THEIR COIL, I will have to call BS on any of the current ways people have been trying to drive any tesla type unidirectional impulse tech that hasn't had good results.Like John Bedini always says, build it first, and then change it. Why hasn't anyone tested Stan's driver arrangement now that it is known and compare it to what they have been doing??
 The thing about the best high DV/DT is that NO ONE WANTS IT IN THE REAL WORLD because of all the "noise" issues it creates, and extra energy burning out components.....
And Mosfets are low resistance when on, so just because your mosfets don't get "over heated", still points out the obvious fact that you are getting heat from you lack of good DV/DT switching at your coil fet.................So, like I have been saying over and over, that added parallel resistance to your coil may greatly improve your situation, it did for Stan, and others in the normal engineering world:
"A first order RL circuit is one of the simplest analogue infinite impulse response electronic filters. It consists of a resistor and an inductor  .........in parallel driven by a current source."
"The parallel circuit is seen on the output of many amplifier circuits, and is used to isolate the amplifier from capacitive loading effects at high frequencies(miller??). Because of the phase shift introduced by capacitance, some amplifiers become unstable at very high frequencies, and tend to oscillate. This affects sound quality and component life (especially the transistors), and is to be avoided."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RL_circuit

So this sounds like a HORRIBLE thing to suggest to people:
"btw if you want the primary pulsing be optimized then use a LARGE buffer capacitor with low ESR at sufficient voltage range directly parallel to coil and switch to avoid voltage breakdown during primary pulsing and to protect your power supply from weird regulation :)."

in light of:
" Because of the phase shift introduced by capacitance, some amplifiers become unstable at very high frequencies, and tend to oscillate. This affects sound quality and component life (especially the transistors), and is to be avoided"


   

Quote from Davy Oneness on August 27th, 2015, 09:28 AM

Stan using a pull down trigger to pulse the driver, is like having a loaded spring with a hair trigger release and a rapid recoil reset. As opposed to the way everyone has been trying to trigger all their FE circuits, which is more akin to kicking in the trigger with your foot and the primitive trigger mechanism drags across itself, and the spring, adding losses in its recoil speed and power output......then you can only go so fast, and when you do try doing it too fast, the whole operation gets unstable quickly........

i agree with you the Adriano being worked on, and all projects in this forum are strictly for profit and gain.

they dont what you to succeed.  i have succeeded in free energy, and devises that clearly are genuine no feed back here. no reproductions here.


your on the right track, and because you may not know about the second power supply you do know..there is a pulse on and off 50 kv volts on 3 seconds off 5.
 and a ordinary electrolisis process leaking beyond stan.. it was not stan who opened our eyes.

it was clyde white the inventor of the electric vaporizer..  good work looking forward to you proving every one wrong and sharing it all on you tube.

 is need to be used if i want a motionless generator,.

Quote from Davy Oneness on August 31st, 2015, 08:28 AM

So, like I have been saying over and over, that added parallel resistance to your coil may greatly improve your situation, it did for Stan, and others in the normal engineering world:
"A first order RL circuit is one of the simplest analogue infinite impulse response electronic filters. It consists of a resistor and an inductor  .........in parallel driven by a current source."

I tend to agree Davy.  A few milli-ohms can make all the difference in the world.  Pretty certain this is why the proper transistor selection is key.  If you drive an inductor hard with a low resistance, high power MOSFET, you won't see what you are looking for.  I have tried, believe me.  The junction needs to have a precisely tuned resistance to work with (not against) the inductor it is connected to.  So parallel resistance AND series resistance both have to work together.  These are tuning steps I would bet most people overlook.

I'm wondering if anyone has come across any information on matching coils to wfc ( or injectors),
I realise stans coils have been replicated both for wfc and injector, it seems there is quite a bit of information available on stans coils but not much on how to build coils to match a given wfc or injector style.