from http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?topic=1965.msg24062;topicseen#msg24062

Timeshell say;

In a simulation I have been able to prove that the gated pulse at resonance would actually charge a capacitor with a higher charge.

See attached image.  There is a switch beside a relay that is being pulsed at 200hz.  The resonant frequency of this circuit is 1.047khz.  When the switch to activate the gate is off (closed), the max charge of the cap is about 50V.  When the switch is opened, allowing it to gate, the cap charges to over 80V.  The step up transformer is a 1:4 and the source voltage is 14V.  Changing the duty cycle on the gate up to 90% increases the cap charge to up to 110V.

TS

maybe,this is the correct VIC.switch of secondary side!!! Bemf of secondary,Bemf of 1st choke and Bemf of 2nd choke =All Bemf create effect to WFC.this schematic act like alternator version.


thanks
geenee

Quote from geenee on December 12th, 2012, 02:24 PM

from http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?topic=1965.msg24062;topicseen#msg24062

Timeshell say;

In a simulation I have been able to prove that the gated pulse at resonance would actually charge a capacitor with a higher charge.

See attached image.  There is a switch beside a relay that is being pulsed at 200hz.  The resonant frequency of this circuit is 1.047khz.  When the switch to activate the gate is off (closed), the max charge of the cap is about 50V.  When the switch is opened, allowing it to gate, the cap charges to over 80V.  The step up transformer is a 1:4 and the source voltage is 14V.  Changing the duty cycle on the gate up to 90% increases the cap charge to up to 110V.

TS

maybe,this is the correct VIC.switch of secondary side!!! Bemf of secondary,Bemf of 1st choke and Bemf of 2nd choke =All Bemf create effect to WFC.this schematic act like alternator version.


thanks
geenee

That looks cool greenee, what do you think Simon?:D

Quote from Jeff Nading on December 12th, 2012, 02:37 PM

Quote from geenee on December 12th, 2012, 02:24 PM

from http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?topic=1965.msg24062;topicseen#msg24062

Timeshell say;

In a simulation I have been able to prove that the gated pulse at resonance would actually charge a capacitor with a higher charge.

See attached image.  There is a switch beside a relay that is being pulsed at 200hz.  The resonant frequency of this circuit is 1.047khz.  When the switch to activate the gate is off (closed), the max charge of the cap is about 50V.  When the switch is opened, allowing it to gate, the cap charges to over 80V.  The step up transformer is a 1:4 and the source voltage is 14V.  Changing the duty cycle on the gate up to 90% increases the cap charge to up to 110V.

TS

maybe,this is the correct VIC.switch of secondary side!!! Bemf of secondary,Bemf of 1st choke and Bemf of 2nd choke =All Bemf create effect to WFC.this schematic act like alternator version.


thanks
geenee

That looks cool greenee, what do you think Simon?:D

thanks,Jeff.Do you know about Triac of Meyer's Part?

gated at short duration(90-95duty cycle,5-10% gated),mean high voltage high amps(from Bemf) short duration.

-when you write patents,you must use trick word like "Switching Diode" to keep secret. i know that picture is diode why explain and place name "switching doide"???use 10khz but use switching diode(for high frequency)?normal diode(1n1198,1n4001-7) can operate at over 50khz,why use switching diode? what do you think?

Credit all to Timeshell,Regard.
geenee

Quote from geenee on December 12th, 2012, 02:44 PM

Quote from Jeff Nading on December 12th, 2012, 02:37 PM

Quote from geenee on December 12th, 2012, 02:24 PM

from http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?topic=1965.msg24062;topicseen#msg24062

Timeshell say;

In a simulation I have been able to prove that the gated pulse at resonance would actually charge a capacitor with a higher charge.

See attached image.  There is a switch beside a relay that is being pulsed at 200hz.  The resonant frequency of this circuit is 1.047khz.  When the switch to activate the gate is off (closed), the max charge of the cap is about 50V.  When the switch is opened, allowing it to gate, the cap charges to over 80V.  The step up transformer is a 1:4 and the source voltage is 14V.  Changing the duty cycle on the gate up to 90% increases the cap charge to up to 110V.

TS

maybe,this is the correct VIC.switch of secondary side!!! Bemf of secondary,Bemf of 1st choke and Bemf of 2nd choke =All Bemf create effect to WFC.this schematic act like alternator version.


thanks
geenee

That looks cool greenee, what do you think Simon?:D

thanks,Jeff.Do you know about Triac of Meyer's Part?

gated at short duration(90-95duty cycle,5-10% gated),mean high voltage high amps(from Bemf) short duration.

geenee

Well geenee I know a little about gating, but that's why I'm asking Simon, I think he will be able to shed some light on this much better than I could, thanks.:D

i simulated multisim11,like Timeshell said.

my setup.
-1:1 transformer.
-pulse 5V frequency =919HZ 50%duty cycle(resonant calculated).
-gated frequency=20HZ 95%duty cycle.
-secondary,1st choke,2nd choke= 100mH.
-capacitor=0.1uF

-voltage spike when gated(off time)=about 30-40Vfrom input 5V(3rd).when i change to(1st and 2nd) 10HZ 95% duty cycle volatge spike to 60V(because longtime charging). scale is 20v/div(3rd) and 50v/div(1st and 2nd pictures).

thanks
geenee

hi geenee,

there is no problem to get high voltages to a capacitor by means of pulsing inducitvites...every photcamera with flash inside is working like this...making out of 9V nearly 500 to 600 V.
So also the simulation can work.
The bigger problem is the resistance of water.....

In the simulation it is calculated with 8Mohms....that is too high, even for destilled water. So when simulating take tiny ohmic value. I made some tests, some time ago, the conductivity of normal water is about 5 Ohms...depending on the size of the WFC. Big WFC makes the resistance even lower. Mine was about 3inch long (1 pair of tube).

Quote from Amsy on December 13th, 2012, 08:06 AM

hi geenee,

there is no problem to get high voltages to a capacitor by means of pulsing inducitvites...every photcamera with flash inside is working like this...making out of 9V nearly 500 to 600 V.
So also the simulation can work.
The bigger problem is the resistance of water.....

In the simulation it is calculated with 8Mohms....that is too high, even for destilled water. So when simulating take tiny ohmic value. I made some tests, some time ago, the conductivity of normal water is about 5 Ohms...depending on the size of the WFC. Big WFC makes the resistance even lower. Mine was about 3inch long (1 pair of tube).

That is what I have witnessed too.  I will also add, if you use basic Ohms Law and calculate the resistance through water at two voltage points:  1V and 5V   You will see the resistance drop at the higher voltage.   Water is not a linear capacitor.  You can do the same test with many multiple points and what you will see if you graph these points is that around 2V, the resistance to current  drops considerably.  This phenomena makes our task even more difficult since the leakage changes based on higher voltage.  Does the capacitance remain the same?  I do not know.  What I can show is that the water capacitor becomes less of a capacitor and more of a shunt the higher the voltage you put through it.

If you can get absolutely pure deionized water (ph = 7), you may have better luck, but it will still be difficult.  You will have to ensure the plates and the vessel are completely clean and free of any contaminants.  You will also have to test immediately as the water's ph will begin to change by itself.

Quote from Dog-One on December 13th, 2012, 11:22 AM

Quote from Amsy on December 13th, 2012, 08:06 AM

hi geenee,

there is no problem to get high voltages to a capacitor by means of pulsing inducitvites...every photcamera with flash inside is working like this...making out of 9V nearly 500 to 600 V.
So also the simulation can work.
The bigger problem is the resistance of water.....

In the simulation it is calculated with 8Mohms....that is too high, even for destilled water. So when simulating take tiny ohmic value. I made some tests, some time ago, the conductivity of normal water is about 5 Ohms...depending on the size of the WFC. Big WFC makes the resistance even lower. Mine was about 3inch long (1 pair of tube).

That is what I have witnessed too.  I will also add, if you use basic Ohms Law and calculate the resistance through water at two voltage points:  1V and 5V   You will see the resistance drop at the higher voltage.   Water is not a linear capacitor.  You can do the same test with many multiple points and what you will see if you graph these points is that around 2V, the resistance to current  drops considerably.  This phenomena makes our task even more difficult since the leakage changes based on higher voltage.  Does the capacitance remain the same?  I do not know.  What I can show is that the water capacitor becomes less of a capacitor and more of a shunt the higher the voltage you put through it.

If you can get absolutely pure deionized water (ph = 7), you may have better luck, but it will still be difficult.  You will have to ensure the plates and the vessel are completely clean and free of any contaminants.  You will also have to test immediately as the water's ph will begin to change by itself.

Clean room conditions, even then it will change. I still think the answer lies in the plasma spark plug. I am gearing up to check this.:D

Quote from Jeff Nading on December 13th, 2012, 12:44 PM

Clean room conditions, even then it will change. I still think the answer lies in the plasma spark plug. I am gearing up to check this.:D

Hehe.  Need some diodes?

Quote from Jeff Nading on December 13th, 2012, 12:44 PM

Quote from Dog-One on December 13th, 2012, 11:22 AM

Quote from Amsy on December 13th, 2012, 08:06 AM

hi geenee,

there is no problem to get high voltages to a capacitor by means of pulsing inducitvites...every photcamera with flash inside is working like this...making out of 9V nearly 500 to 600 V.
So also the simulation can work.
The bigger problem is the resistance of water.....

In the simulation it is calculated with 8Mohms....that is too high, even for destilled water. So when simulating take tiny ohmic value. I made some tests, some time ago, the conductivity of normal water is about 5 Ohms...depending on the size of the WFC. Big WFC makes the resistance even lower. Mine was about 3inch long (1 pair of tube).

That is what I have witnessed too.  I will also add, if you use basic Ohms Law and calculate the resistance through water at two voltage points:  1V and 5V   You will see the resistance drop at the higher voltage.   Water is not a linear capacitor.  You can do the same test with many multiple points and what you will see if you graph these points is that around 2V, the resistance to current  drops considerably.  This phenomena makes our task even more difficult since the leakage changes based on higher voltage.  Does the capacitance remain the same?  I do not know.  What I can show is that the water capacitor becomes less of a capacitor and more of a shunt the higher the voltage you put through it.

If you can get absolutely pure deionized water (ph = 7), you may have better luck, but it will still be difficult.  You will have to ensure the plates and the vessel are completely clean and free of any contaminants.  You will also have to test immediately as the water's ph will begin to change by itself.

Clean room conditions, even then it will change. I still think the answer lies in the plasma spark plug. I am gearing up to check this.:D

water will absorb atmospheric gases.  The reason for the pH change is due to absorption of carbon dioxide (ie. CO2).  The CO2 will react (in small quantities) with water, to form carbonic acid.  The carbonic acid acts as a weak electrolyte and allows current to flow more readily, thereby reducing the effectiveness of the water capacitor (whose function acts to prevent current flow by maintaining charge separation).  Since the ions (carbonic acid) flow freely, the capacitance will be diminished.  
To maintain capacitance, the water can be degassed with a vacuum.  To ensure no loss of capacitance, the water can be sparged with a neutral non-reactive gas (such as Argon).  The cell could then be sealed to maintain an inert environment and the capacitance can be preserved.
PS Distilled water is fairly de-ionized, especially if you then sparge with a non-reactive (inert) gas

Quote from Dog-One on December 13th, 2012, 04:24 PM

Quote from Jeff Nading on December 13th, 2012, 12:44 PM

Clean room conditions, even then it will change. I still think the answer lies in the plasma spark plug. I am gearing up to check this.:D

Hehe.  Need some diodes?

I have some diodes from MV ovens.:D Thanks Frank, good info.:D

Quote from Amsy on December 13th, 2012, 08:06 AM

hi geenee,

there is no problem to get high voltages to a capacitor by means of pulsing inducitvites...every photcamera with flash inside is working like this...making out of 9V nearly 500 to 600 V.
So also the simulation can work.
The bigger problem is the resistance of water.....

In the simulation it is calculated with 8Mohms....that is too high, even for destilled water. So when simulating take tiny ohmic value. I made some tests, some time ago, the conductivity of normal water is about 5 Ohms...depending on the size of the WFC. Big WFC makes the resistance even lower. Mine was about 3inch long (1 pair of tube).

-i tested with distilled water(for battery).the resistance of distilled water is 95V/0.015A=6333.33 Ohms(from my old test).in simulator i use 1k ohms resistance.5V can spike to 30-60V.if you use 500V than can spike to 3000-6000V.

-new circuit need to test.but the point is switch from secondary side above diode.that is can make resonant AC(swicth close) and maintain magnatic field around coil=store energy but when switch open ,Bemf can pass only one way because diode,all 3 bemf of coils go to WFC.this is the same effect like alternator version WFC.when phase 1st pass that cause bemf or spike voltage,same as phase 2nd,3rd pass(3 poles AC alternator).BEMF is come from coils.

thanks
geenee

Quote from Dog-One on December 13th, 2012, 11:22 AM

That is what I have witnessed too.  I will also add, if you use basic Ohms Law and calculate the resistance through water at two voltage points:  1V and 5V   You will see the resistance drop at the higher voltage.   Water is not a linear capacitor.  You can do the same test with many multiple points and what you will see if you graph these points is that around 2V, the resistance to current  drops considerably.  This phenomena makes our task even more difficult since the leakage changes based on higher voltage.  Does the capacitance remain the same?  I do not know.  What I can show is that the water capacitor becomes less of a capacitor and more of a shunt the higher the voltage you put through it.

If you can get absolutely pure deionized water (ph = 7), you may have better luck, but it will still be difficult.  You will have to ensure the plates and the vessel are completely clean and free of any contaminants.  You will also have to test immediately as the water's ph will begin to change by itself.

I can agree this!
When you rise the voltage the resistance will fall down. It is not linear.

Quote

-i tested with distilled water(for battery).the resistance of distilled water is 95V/0.015A=6333.33 Ohms(from my old test).in simulator i use 1k ohms resistance.5V can spike to 30-60V.if you use 500V than can spike to 3000-6000V.

-new circuit need to test.but the point is switch from secondary side above diode.that is can make resonant AC(swicth close) and maintain magnatic field around coil=store energy but when switch open ,Bemf can pass only one way because diode,all 3 bemf of coils go to WFC.this is the same effect like alternator version WFC.when phase 1st pass that cause bemf or spike voltage,same as phase 2nd,3rd pass(3 poles AC alternator).BEMF is come from coils.

thanks
geenee

How long was your tube?
My experience was, with a 3inch tube. As bigger the tube, as smaler the resistance.
Also impurity in normal water lowers the resistance. Do you think meyer, was always using destilled water? --> this would content conflict with the patent which is saying, that the WFC can handle salt water, rain water......

my test cell is 1*3 inches plates.water has variable resistance.if use short duration pulse dc has high resistance but use dc has low resistance.cause resistance of water is non-linear like capacitance of water.i think Meyer use tap water.Meyer process must appear electrolysis(cause tap water) but plus polarization process(20kv spike short duration).

-Do you think Timeshell's circuit is resonable or real VIC?cause LC with diode is RC circuit.

thanks
geenee