Actually, after having revisited the energetic forum I would like to take the opportunity to do some brainstorming myself here :cool:
To start with I think you have to coat the pipes in the cell with a thin dielectric layer, just in order to prevent current from
flowing through the water, I.E to prevent conventional water electrolysis from taking place, with all the unwanted things that comes
along with that, like excessive heat, increased unnecessary conventional electrolysis current, etc etc.
Basically you would only want water fracturing to take place during the process, and nothing else.
Furthermore I think that the cell should get a fairly high voltage from the VIC when operating at resonance.
Also, I think that the purpose of the 2 chokes on each side of the cell are to prevent electric backfiring, which could potentially
destroy the rest of the VIC.
Alright, hit me :D

Quote from Lynx on September 25th, 2012, 03:03 PM

To start with I think you have to coat the pipes in the cell with a thin dielectric layer, just in order to prevent current from flowing through the water, I.E to prevent conventional water electrolysis from taking place, with all the unwanted things that comes along with that, like excessive heat, increased unnecessary conventional electrolysis current, etc etc.

Tried it.  Not an "epic fail", but what I got was a big water capacitor that stored enough juice in it to make fantastic sparks when shorted out, but no bubbles.  There are far easier ways to do the same thing without water.  Maybe my dielectric was too good and it could still work with more voltage, but 20kV was enough for me to say this thing is too dangerous to keep playing with.

Quote from Lynx on September 25th, 2012, 02:06 PM

Bring it on :D

Okay, here goes...

Tom Bearden's Massless Displacement Current
The basic principal has two options.  One, if you charge a capacitor through a "special material" you can do so without paying for the current that would normally be necessary.  Option two, you can step charge the capacitor in tiny increments and again not pay us much for charging the capacitor as you can get out of the capacitor once it is charged.  Cool stuff huh?  I thought so too, but I never made either option work in practice.

Edward Leedskalnin
From what I gather so far, his theory boils down to this:  Electrons are rocking horse manure made up by guys with long hair.  Electricity is really a combination of North and South magnets moving through a wire.  These unipolar magnets are much smaller than photons and can penetrate any material.  They really like metal but can traverse glass, plastic, air; basically anything.  On a battery, the North magnets leave out of the positive side and South magnets leave from the negative side.  Both North and South magnets must be moving in order for you to perceive anything resembling an electric current--they do not travel alone as just North or South, only in pairs.  Their movement is in a corkscrew pattern rotating to the right as they move forward.  Current (amperage) is just a measure of how many magnets are moving.  Voltage is how much tension is on the magnet strands as they move.  This movement has been compared to a double helix like strands of DNA.

According to Ed, Natural A/C is abundantly everywhere and looks something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNHrkpz0uTs

Observations
It seems probable there is something special about a transformer being wound in a bifilar configuration which looks a lot like strands of DNA (also something pretty special).  Very possibly because you have essentially a highway where one lane is moving in one direction and the adjacent lane is moving in the opposite direction.  Remember these magnets are twisting as they move forward with some tendency to want to jump lanes if that makes their motion easier.  Think about the last time you went bowling and threw a gutter ball.

Energy (tiny unipolar magnets) are abundantly everywhere but without some help we can't directly use them.

Step charging seems to be a common phenomenon in success stories we have seen.

Water readily breaks down with high D/C current but takes more energy to do so than you can get back by combusting the resultant gases.  High voltage and water seem to only mix when the water has a neutral pH, so current seems to me to still be key.  And if we are talking magnets like Ed would, lots of magnets means lots of bubbles.

The little magnets like to move in a corkscrew fashion, forward and to the right, so mechanically we may be able to leverage their force since we can anticipate their movement.

These magnets also prefer to travel through metal but probably can be made to travel through insulators if we are able to bind them up enough.

Thoughts
Suppose we are able to wind a bifilar coil in such a way where it is acting as Tesla might define, an electrostatic oscillator, just bouncing natural, inherent A/C around inside itself.  Not doing any work, just sitting there like one of Ed's Perpetual Motion Holders (PMH).  Suppose this coil is attached to our water fuel cell or simply our output device that just so happens to have water in it.  Now imagine there is a way to slip a little extra "natural" energy (magnets) in there without us doing any real work.  My guess is that some natural equilibrium will happen to even everything back out and suppose the only way out is via our output device.

Goal
So if built properly, our little coil (maybe by way of diodes, another winding, shielding, grounding, who knows at this point) tricks more natural A/C into hopping into the bifilar windings when there really isn't room for them; thus, they get pushed back out and end up in the water.  So think, little tricks (step charge, oscillations faster that the coil can keep up with, getting the magnets to go the wrong way).  Maybe we can even control how many additional little magnets we let in before we decide to let a whole bunch of them back out into the water--think gating.  What we want turns out to be very similar to what Stan built, though we may have gotten to the same place from an entirely different direction.  It's this alternate goal that is every bit as important as the main goal--we need to be open minded and not let the trees block out the view of the forest.  One of us CAN figure this out, I just know it.  Hopefully, whoever it is can explain it so that we all "get it".

Gut Feeling
I played with this darn thing for quite a while and my gut tells me the answer is in the coil and how we pulse it, not the cell.  I think most any cell would work and I'm willing to bet that if you figure out the coil, you could hook it to a massive cell and blow yourself up in a matter of minutes.  I also think if you harness the natural energy, your cell won't get hot like it would attached to a large D/C power source.  Probably because in effect you are dumping massive current into the water in very short bursts; the water doesn't have time to heat up, it just flies apart into gas rapidly.  Also, if you think magnets both flowing out each wire, one side North and the other side South, you don't actually have current (amperage) until the two streams of magnets collide and if that collision is in the water and not in the wires, you can use small gauge wires without burning them up yet see the cell generate large quantities of gas as though it had been hit with a thousand amp burst.  You only pay for the current that actually crosses through itself and makes it all the way back to the source which a properly made coil should never allow.

Next Steps
Build, build, build.  Think about some of these concepts and test them in practice.  If things don't work, figure out what it is you are not doing.  If you discover something new, tell all as soon as you can find the words.  Also focus.  Stay in the game and don't wander off.  Make a list of "I don't know how to ____" and figure it out.  Ask for help.  And above all, enjoy your journey.  As I like to say, "If you aren't having fun, you aren't doing it right."

Quote from Dog-One on September 25th, 2012, 04:28 PM

Quote from Lynx on September 25th, 2012, 03:03 PM

To start with I think you have to coat the pipes in the cell with a thin dielectric layer, just in order to prevent current from flowing through the water, I.E to prevent conventional water electrolysis from taking place, with all the unwanted things that comes along with that, like excessive heat, increased unnecessary conventional electrolysis current, etc etc.

Tried it.  Not an "epic fail", but what I got was a big water capacitor that stored enough juice in it to make fantastic sparks when shorted out, but no bubbles.  There are far easier ways to do the same thing without water.  Maybe my dielectric was too good and it could still work with more voltage, but 20kV was enough for me to say this thing is too dangerous to keep playing with.

So basically you applied a high voltage to the cell, which had a dielectric coating
and you didn't get any bubbles?
May I ask how you went about to coat the cell?
This sounds very interesting.

Quote from Dog-One on September 25th, 2012, 05:32 PM

Okay, here goes...

Tom Bearden's Massless Displacement Current
The basic principal has two options....

Dog-One, seems you are in the same mindset as me right now really glad you went to the effort to write your ideas down.  Two other things that I would like to throw in to the mix for people to think about...

Firstly
There are a bunch of videos on YouTube showing people utilising a PMH to magnetise materials that are not normally magnetic.  What does this tell the inquisitive mind (other than it is a cool effect).  Well I would say that the PMH helps to align the north and south pole magnetic lines of flux in the material that is exposed to them.  This conditioning obviously helps the material to briefly be more conductive to the magnetic lines of flux.  If we follow the line of thinking, this must also mean that it makes it more accepting of natural AC... so the thought this sparked in me is: what happens if we try to magnetise the WFC stainless steel tubes using this type of process, making the flow of north and south magnetism as easy as possible.

Secondly
I found some videos that show a very cool vortex of magnetism in water - applying an electric charge to a magnet in water produces a tiny tornado style effect helping you to visualise the spiraling magnetism (which I think fits nicely with the notions of corkscrewing north and south magnetism).

Apologies for not posting the links, but I am on an office network with youtube access banned!

As a final thought - I think whether or not the theory of electrons is right or wrong, it has served its purpose - which is for man to try and have a working model that enables predictions to be made about the world around him.  After all that is all that any theory of science or religion is trying to achieve.  Whether or not it is the true nature of reality almost becomes irrelevant if it achieves the main goal.  People should be open to competing theories on everything in life if those theories are able to help us achieve the goal of describing behaviours and helping predict / produce testable hypotheses about the world around us.

I am personally quite intrigued to see notions of magnetism becoming prevalant in people's thinking as I believe there are some great discoveries lurking just round the corner!

Quote from Lynx on September 26th, 2012, 01:05 AM

So basically you applied a high voltage to the cell, which had a dielectric coating
and you didn't get any bubbles?
May I ask how you went about to coat the cell?
This sounds very interesting.

Polyurethane dip.  Tried also varnish and rubberizing dips.  Only did the center electrode.  Three coats of polyurethane and a TV flyback transformer, top entering wire that is also sealed from any water touching it.  You can charge the bugger until you feel your hair standing on end.  When discharged it would vaporize about a 1/4" of 14 gauge wire.  Have no idea the total wattage stored in there, but I did get a, "Honey, what the heck are you doing out there?" from the wife.  My answer:  welding.  :D

Quote from Dog-One on September 26th, 2012, 05:52 AM

Quote from Lynx on September 26th, 2012, 01:05 AM

So basically you applied a high voltage to the cell, which had a dielectric coating
and you didn't get any bubbles?
May I ask how you went about to coat the cell?
This sounds very interesting.

Polyurethane dip.  Tried also varnish and rubberizing dips.  Only did the center electrode.  Three coats of polyurethane and a TV flyback transformer, top entering wire that is also sealed from any water touching it.  You can charge the bugger until you feel your hair standing on end.  When discharged it would vaporize about a 1/4" of 14 gauge wire.  Have no idea the total wattage stored in there, but I did get a, "Honey, what the heck are you doing out there?" from the wife.  My answer:  welding.  :D

Oh :D
Well one could say that you're right about that welding part.......sort of anyway :D
I've tried coating my cell this way (also only center electrode btw): http://www.overunity.com/3265/wfc-tubes-conditioning/msg48748/#msg48748
What I have to do though is to put it "all" together, coated cell + bifilar wound VIC + gated pulse train + a lot of patience.
I'm kinda used to that patience thing though :P
Thanks for sharing.

Hi Lynx, I posted some where about naturally forming the dielectric on the cell in tap water, with less than 1/2 an amp @ 12 volts DC with the Lawton circuit. It will form a white substance on the inner surface of the outer tube and on the outer surface of the inner tube. It works well, gets better the more you use the cell, produces more HHO. I have seen this used as a torch with proper back flash protection. :D

Quote from Jeff Nading on September 26th, 2012, 08:42 AM

Hi Lynx, I posted some where about naturally forming the dielectric on the cell in tap water, with less than 1/2 an amp @ 12 volts DC with the Lawton circuit. It will form a white substance on the inner surface of the outer tube and on the outer surface of the inner tube. It works well, gets better the more you use the cell, produces more HHO.

Saw this too.  My initial instinct was that it creates more surface area; hence more contact with the water, more opportunity to interact with the water.

Years ago I used to do a lot of overclocking of CPUs and some folks wanted smooth as glass surface for their waterblock to eliminate as much thermal paste as they could.  My approach was to completely eliminate thermal paste altogether and have direct contact of the water to the heat spreader since water was the best thermal sink you could get.  So I would rough up my heat spreader and push cool water directly onto it from above, then collect the heated water from the sides.  Worked like a charm.  For five dollars in parts, it would cool any processor down to ambient slick as could be.  People yiped at me because removing my cooler would cause spills that would blow up their motherboards.  I used distilled water and washed my motherboard with it to show them it doesn't matter if it gets wet.  Neutral pH --> no conductivity; no damage.  Soak up the mess with a towel and move on.

Quote from Jeff Nading on September 26th, 2012, 08:42 AM

Hi Lynx, I posted some where about naturally forming the dielectric on the cell in tap water, with less than 1/2 an amp @ 12 volts DC with the Lawton circuit. It will form a white substance on the inner surface of the outer tube and on the outer surface of the inner tube. It works well, gets better the more you use the cell, produces more HHO.

Thanks Jeff, I have managed to get a white coat on the tubes, what is left for me
to do is to try it out in a "complete" setup, I.E with a VIC including bifilar wound
coils, gated variable PWM, etc etc.

Quote from Dog-One on September 26th, 2012, 10:31 AM

Saw this too.  My initial instinct was that it creates more surface area; hence more contact with the water, more opportunity to interact with the water.

I don't think that's the main thing with coating, if I wanted bigger area to interact
with the water it's simply a matter of increasing the diameter of the tubes.
It's the dielectric properties I'm after, I have this vision of finding the correct
frequency at a fairly high voltage on the cell and get the fracturing process
started alongside the brute force electrolysis, which will take place no matter what,
regardless of however deionized water you use.
Deonized water will ionize naturally over time anyway, that's part of the reason to
why there's a "best before date" stamp even on deionized water bottles.

This is a good video on how Leedskalnin might apply to the Atom:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=pQAzVHLP2Wg

Trying to use Ed's theory of tiny magnets versus the electron theory would definatley help in my opinion.  The problem is the complexety goes up and becomes very dynamic.  I think starting at the atomic level is the easiest place to start when dealing with Ed's magnets.  Electron science says copper atoms have more free electrons, perhaps in Leedskalnin science the copper atom has a faster vortex?  More magnets through a nucleus in a given time?  A simple change in thinking at the atomic level could change how something at the device level is thought of dramaticly.

Dog-One mentioned that perhaps the VIC and resonant cavity kept the north and south magnets from combining into their corkscrew pattern.  This could be which would pile up large amounts of one polarity of magents in and around the outside of the stainless tubes, and another on the inside of the stainless rods inside of the tubes.  Perhaps that is why Stan designed the center tube out of machined solid rod rather than a tube, because magnets flow easier through iron (or hold more magnets).  Maybe the resonant cavitys would benefit with some ferrite rods in the middle of the center stainless rod..?  Lots of ways to think about Ed's way of thinking....

Nate

Quote from firepinto on September 28th, 2012, 09:46 PM

This is a good video on how Leedskalnin might apply to the Atom:

Lots of ways to think about Ed's way of thinking....

Another good find Nate.  The guy tries his best to explain it, but it is radically different than what we've been taught, so it is difficult.  Myself, I always had a problem in chemistry with covalent rings, covalent bonds, ionic bonds, etc.  It was preached to me as fact which I had a hard time accepting, at which point I was told to build on top of it.  Never worked in my head.

Thinking about matter as a lattice of particles with magnets zooming in, through and around it is actually easier to accept and hopefully easier to work with for the purposes of discovering free energy.  If the Leedskalnin view doesn't help, maybe someone else has a map that will allow us to see where we are and where we want to go.  It's all a matter of perception.  If you can see it in the minds eye, you can build it.

Did a little testing this evening with my setup which is basically this:

Torroid wound 10:1 (180:18 turns) for step-up.

Quad-filer E-Core -- Four Approximately 27 feet AWG 24.  Ends up being six layers.  Windings 1 and 3 connected together at each end; same with windings 2 and 4.

Diode between torroid and E-Core.

Tune step-up for max voltage, min current.  Frequency at 6000Hz, Duty Cycle at 3%

Can't see any pattern to tuning gating frequency or duty cycle.

Discovered the following:

When E-Core is connected as shown in the first attachment, the core makes no difference at all, zilch, zero, notta.

When the E-Core is connected as shown in the second attachment, you can definitely feel the magnetic pull when you try to separate the two halves and the slight air gap (thin piece of tape on each half) causes the core to ring like a bell at certain frequencies of gating.  Also when you adjust the cores ever so slightly, you can see the current draw go way up.  Current draw is minimum when held tightly together.

So I'm pretty sure the first attachment drawing is incorrect or misleading by design.  What I haven't tried yet are various water capacitors (WFCs) to see if the setup is more tunable based on what it is connected to.

To summarize.  I have learned the basic setup necessary.  I also know how to tune the pulse frequency to maximize voltage and minimize current.  And don't forget the polarity going into the torroid step-up--It does matter since we are using DC.  I feel pretty certain the gate frequency is what you tune next against the bifilar/WFC which is still pretty vague to me how to accomplish.  There should be some range at which the pulses get turned into a magnetic field inside the E-Core and get dumped back out based on the gating.  Right now I think both my torroid and E-Core are trying to operate at too close to the same resonant frequency so I can't tune them independently the way I should be able to.  I do have a larger E-Core (actually a C-Core) that I may try next after connecting to my largest WFC.

Hope this helps someone in their experimentation or even better, gets us all the same track of thinking.

Just a final note:  I am getting bubbles in tap water, but nothing all that spectacular.  My goal is to get bubbles and minimize current.  If I can do that, the design should scale to much larger output or even multiple units if need be.

Quote from Dog-One on October 4th, 2012, 06:49 PM

Did a little testing this evening with my setup which is basically this:

Torroid wound 10:1 (180:18 turns) for step-up.

Quad-filer E-Core -- Four Approximately 27 feet AWG 24.  Ends up being six layers.  Windings 1 and 3 connected together at each end; same with windings 2 and 4.

Diode between torroid and E-Core.

Tune step-up for max voltage, min current.  Frequency at 6000Hz, Duty Cycle at 3%

Can't see any pattern to tuning gating frequency or duty cycle.

Discovered the following:

When E-Core is connected as shown in the first attachment, the core makes no difference at all, zilch, zero, notta.

When the E-Core is connected as shown in the second attachment, you can definitely feel the magnetic pull when you try to separate the two halves and the slight air gap (thin piece of tape on each half) causes the core to ring like a bell at certain frequencies of gating.  Also when you adjust the cores ever so slightly, you can see the current draw go way up.  Current draw is minimum when held tightly together.

So I'm pretty sure the first attachment drawing is incorrect or misleading by design.  What I haven't tried yet are various water capacitors (WFCs) to see if the setup is more tunable based on what it is connected to.

To summarize.  I have learned the basic setup necessary.  I also know how to tune the pulse frequency to maximize voltage and minimize current.  And don't forget the polarity going into the torroid step-up--It does matter since we are using DC.  I feel pretty certain the gate frequency is what you tune next against the bifilar/WFC which is still pretty vague to me how to accomplish.  There should be some range at which the pulses get turned into a magnetic field inside the E-Core and get dumped back out based on the gating.  Right now I think both my torroid and E-Core are trying to operate at too close to the same resonant frequency so I can't tune them independently the way I should be able to.  I do have a larger E-Core (actually a C-Core) that I may try next after connecting to my largest WFC.

Hope this helps someone in their experimentation or even better, gets us all the same track of thinking.

Just a final note:  I am getting bubbles in tap water, but nothing all that spectacular.  My goal is to get bubbles and minimize current.  If I can do that, the design should scale to much larger output or even multiple units if need be.

I take it the E-core here is the bifilar wound coil called resonant charging chokes
in the Meyer documents?
When it was connected to your secondary like in the first document, how was the
rest of your secondary setup connected to it?
Was it like Meyer showed in the summary here (see attachment), where the E-core
(resonant charging chokes) TX4 and TX5 was connected to the secondary coil TX2
via the diode, and you fed the primary TX1 with the gating frequency when you
got nothing at all in the cell?
Also did you use your toroid transformer at all when you connected the E-core as
shown in your secondary attachment?
Thanks for sharing.

Quote from Lynx on October 5th, 2012, 12:44 AM

I take it the E-core here is the bifilar wound coil called resonant charging chokes
in the Meyer documents?

Correct.

Quote from Lynx on October 5th, 2012, 12:44 AM

When it was connected to your secondary like in the first document, how was the
rest of your secondary setup connected to it?
Was it like Meyer showed in the summary here (see attachment), where the E-core
(resonant charging chokes) TX4 and TX5 was connected to the secondary coil TX2
via the diode, and you fed the primary TX1 with the gating frequency when you
got nothing at all in the cell?

It wasn't really like Meyer described (all in one unit on a single core) at all--kind of learned to take his drawings and some of his explanations with a grain of salt.  I don't discount he made something work, I just don't fully trust he described it in a manner anyone and their dog could copy.  Recall he wanted to make some cash with this thing--probably why we aren't driving water powered cars today.

My setup uses a toroid simply for step-up; you could probably pull high voltage from the wall if you'd rather.  The reason I have a step-up is to get high voltage with the multiplexed signal still intact.  The rapid pulses run at resonance to make the step-up work optimally.  If you hook the output of the step-up toroid either directly to the WFC or through a diode to the WFC, it kills everything and amperage goes off the chart.  The step-up works excellent with no load.  Put a load on it and craps out.

Quote from Lynx on October 5th, 2012, 12:44 AM

Also did you use your toroid transformer at all when you connected the E-core as
shown in your secondary attachment?
Thanks for sharing.

So the E-Core with my side-by-side wire wraps is a completely separate device apart from the step-up toroid.  The output of the toroid is a direct connect to the input of the E-Core with just a diode on one of the two wires.  Again, when the WFC is not connected, the toroid sees no load and operates at max voltage.  So the E-Core isn't impeding anything when it has no load on it's output.  When you connect the E-Core's output to the WFC, it does load-up the toroid some, but not completely like would happen without the E-Core bifilar.  This tells me something is working.  It's obviously not tuned which seems to be out of range for my setup at the moment, but it's clear to me the bifilar E-Core is reducing current to a point the step-up toroid can still function--not as good as wide open, but still operate which it cannot do with a dead short.

Voltage at the input of the WFC is down quite a bit from the output of the step-up toroid, but still higher than the original input voltage coming from my power supply.  Not exactly sure what that means.  I'm guessing the E-Core isn't fully dissipating its energy, probably because the resonant frequency of it overlaps with the pulsing frequency.  Problem is, if a slow down the pulse frequency to give the E-Core more time to dump its charge, the toroid stops producing high voltage.

This brings me back around to my original theory that the E-Core bifilar needs to operate at a low frequency matching the gating frequency and the step-up needs to operate at a high frequency matching the pulses.  That way, you can tune each one independently and get the thing to work--make bubbles with minimal current draw.

If it helps to visualize, my circuit is much more like Jean's with these differences:

Swap 1 and 2 on the bifilar and don't connect 3 to ground, just connect it straight to the WFC.  Also, remove R1 completely from the WFC.

Thanks D1, I couldn't read your whole reply so I made a PDF of it.
Good luck in your quest, looking forward to see more progress here!

The main thing to focus on now is to create high voltage. Of course it´s possible as railguns etc. show but with your configuration of a separate coil for suppressing amp flow you run into problems at voltages above 1000V.

then the isolation of magnetic wire fails and you´ll get a short cut at the suppressor coil.

so we are running into new problems dealing with high voltage but solving them is one of 3 key steps for stan meyer technlogy.

those are:

pulse generator - solved
VIC                  - unresolved
WFC                - unresolved  

Quote from bussi04 on October 6th, 2012, 04:38 AM

The main thing to focus on now is to create high voltage. Of course it´s possible as railguns etc. show but with your configuration of a separate coil for suppressing amp flow you run into problems at voltages above 1000V.

then the isolation of magnetic wire fails and you´ll get a short cut at the suppressor coil.

so we are running into new problems dealing with high voltage but solving them is one of 3 key steps for stan meyer technlogy.

those are:

pulse generator - solved
VIC                  - unresolved
WFC                - unresolved

I too believe that the VIC should be complete and contain all the necessary coils
that which you need, I.E the primary, secondary, pick up coil if needed for a PLL
and also the bifilar wound resonant charging chokes, where one of the windings
in the RCC is adjustable, probably for the sake of fine tuning in order to minimize
current/maximize voltage.
IIRC JP says that Meyer said that it's all in the dielectric of the water, so if "only"
the reactive inductance in the secondary of the VIC matches or is greater than the
capacitive reactance in the cell then the resonance frequency will be whatever it
will be, perhaps it would show in the pickup coil.

Quote from Lynx on October 6th, 2012, 06:03 AM

I too believe that the VIC should be complete and contain all the necessary coils
that which you need, I.E the primary, secondary, pick up coil if needed for a PLL
and also the bifilar wound resonant charging chokes, where one of the windings
in the RCC is adjustable, probably for the sake of fine tuning in order to minimize
current/maximize voltage.
IIRC JP says that Meyer said that it's all in the dielectric of the water, so if "only"
the reactive inductance in the secondary of the VIC matches or is greater than the
capacitive reactance in the cell then the resonance frequency will be whatever it
will be, perhaps it would show in the pickup coil.

I suppose if the main resonant frequency of the primary/secondary is a harmonic of the RCC, then everything could be on the same core.  That in and of itself sounds like quite a task--lots of calculations followed up by many mechanical rebuilds and gobs of testing.

I still think the most fruitful approach would be to build two separate coils; make sure their resonant frequency ranges are well away from each other and use the electronics in the pulsing/gating to tune them.  Seems much easier and more likely to hit a sweet spot.  What I have sitting on my bench right now tells me there is definitely something to this approach.

Another facet to this is tuning.  Why would I need a PLL when I can scan using a micro controller and lock the pulsing/gating at some minimum current draw?  This is a capability we have now that Stan probably didn't or didn't think of.  It wouldn't take much at all to add a calibrated load resister and monitor the voltage drop across it.  Seriously, if we can get components (coils) that are in the ballpark, the electronics available now days should be able to do the rest.

I have attached a fairly decent representation of my current setup.  Go back to the Leedskalnin explanation of north/south magnets both flowing from their associated positive/negative sources.  Do you see something interesting in the bifilar coil?  The way I have it connected?  What happens to the ferrite before the opposite polarity magnets come in contact with each other (before actual measurable current flow)?  Do they not impose a magnet field in the ferrite because of their twist?  Suppose I let magnets run into this coil and just before they ram into each other I shut the potential off allowing them to absorb into the ferrite.  Then just about the time they saturate the ferrite I hit them with potential again.  Would they not have anywhere else to go but to the WFC?  Anyone see what I'm getting at here?  If Leedskalnin is right, a coil wound this way is a perfect little magnet pump.

Quote from Dog-One on October 6th, 2012, 11:51 AM

Quote from Lynx on October 6th, 2012, 06:03 AM

I too believe that the VIC should be complete and contain all the necessary coils
that which you need, I.E the primary, secondary, pick up coil if needed for a PLL
and also the bifilar wound resonant charging chokes, where one of the windings
in the RCC is adjustable, probably for the sake of fine tuning in order to minimize
current/maximize voltage.
IIRC JP says that Meyer said that it's all in the dielectric of the water, so if "only"
the reactive inductance in the secondary of the VIC matches or is greater than the
capacitive reactance in the cell then the resonance frequency will be whatever it
will be, perhaps it would show in the pickup coil.

I suppose if the main resonant frequency of the primary/secondary is a harmonic of the RCC, then everything could be on the same core.  That in and of itself sounds like quite a task--lots of calculations followed up by many mechanical rebuilds and gobs of testing.

I still think the most fruitful approach would be to build two separate coils; make sure their resonant frequency ranges are well away from each other and use the electronics in the pulsing/gating to tune them.  Seems much easier and more likely to hit a sweet spot.  What I have sitting on my bench right now tells me there is definitely something to this approach.

Another facet to this is tuning.  Why would I need a PLL when I can scan using a micro controller and lock the pulsing/gating at some minimum current draw?  This is a capability we have now that Stan probably didn't or didn't think of.  It wouldn't take much at all to add a calibrated load resister and monitor the voltage drop across it.  Seriously, if we can get components (coils) that are in the ballpark, the electronics available now days should be able to do the rest.

I have attached a fairly decent representation of my current setup.  Go back to the Leedskalnin explanation of north/south magnets both flowing from their associated positive/negative sources.  Do you see something interesting in the bifilar coil?  The way I have it connected?  What happens to the ferrite before the opposite polarity magnets come in contact with each other (before actual measurable current flow)?  Do they not impose a magnet field in the ferrite because of their twist?  Suppose I let magnets run into this coil and just before they ram into each other I shut the potential off allowing them to absorb into the ferrite.  Then just about the time they saturate the ferrite I hit them with potential again.  Would they not have anywhere else to go but to the WFC?  Anyone see what I'm getting at here?  If Leedskalnin is right, a coil wound this way is a perfect little magnet pump.

Thanks for the diagram.
I do believe that the way you have connected the bifilar coil is exactly the way that
Meyer intended for it to be connected, albeit wound on the same core together with
the rest of the coils.
As for winding the primary & the secondary in order for them to be "frequencywise"
compliant with the bifilar/WFC resonance frequency then I think as long as there's
a ratio of let's say 1:10 or 1:20 in regards to primary/secondary windings
it really doesn't matter all that much what their reactive components will end up at
as the most interesting aspect here would be to have the bifilar inductive reactance
matching or to be greater than the cell capacitive reactance.
One way of finding a decent ratio of winding the primary & secondary coils is to
check the output from the secondary (TX2) as you vary the input frequency to the
primary (TX1) without varying the voltage.
If you get a good frequency response, I.E a decent bandwidth in the range of let's
say from 1 KHz to 50 KHz, where the voltage on the secondary doesn't drop any
while sweeping across the whole frequency range, then I'd say that you have
a pretty decent setup for the TX1 and TX2.
As for omitting the pickup coil, well if you want to measure the voltage drop
through a resistor instead of measuring the voltage generated in the pickup coil,
then I guess that would be just as telling, I really can't say if it would be the right
approach or not because I haven't seen any such results at all, feel free to correct
me if I'm wrong here.