Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on July 8th, 2012, 07:18 AM

all,

please read this:
http://open-source-energy.org/rwg42985/russ/Patents/Andrija%20Puharich-US4394230.pdf

dont skip around, read it in its entirety.

this is the only place i have found where some one explains the process stan understood so well.

staged A-F

if these things dont hapen in that order and in that way... we will never get it to work.

its not a coil and water cap and some pulses. ECT.

its a very very precise and orderly process that MUST happen in that order of it will not work.

***Note, that is a patent... so he is not giving you the exact  info you need to get it to work, he is giving you what you need to know to understand how to make it work... ***

basically what I'm telling you is that know one can say that something can not be done. just because you can not get it to work... that just mean's you dont understand it enough to make it work.

healthy discussion is welcome here and is encouraged as that's the way life is. things get done that way. BUT. if your here to tell others that it just dont work and its all fake... please leave or do not comment.

the work i have done dose not push me away and make me think its fake. it draws me closer and makes me try more to  understand whats really going on in stan's system.

the point of this post is to make everyone think about why there here.

this place was started to gather the same like to achieve a goal. if one dose not think the goal will be reached and can not be understanding about it please do not diss-courage others here. we are a support group for each other. again, a healthy discussion is welcome.


thanks guys for your understanding and for anyone that is going to take this message the wrong way.... sorry. got to keep this place rocking... moving forward...

we all share, we all teach, we all learn, we all win, knowledge is power. dont need money or other. a good understanding it always key.

Blessings and GOD Bless

~Russ

PS. dont hate me... lol

from Russ,this's a very precise to understand all.
please compare about Meyer's VIC and Puharich's Circuit.

- about attached picture,when i read Puharis's patents i think "when water molecule(104 degree) become 109.28 degree(tetrahedron) it will split easily by electrolysis(electron(e) from circuit place to 2H+ =H2)"

-what is resonant frequency of tetrahedron form?? f=3980,7960,31840,63690 hz???

thanks
geenee

PS. Puharis's Patents is very hard to understand, i will try harder to understand.

Hello all.

I look at the picture,i attached.Puharich's water cell has 2 parts,capacitor part and electrolyte part.

Capacitor part is insulated by ceramic and Pyrex glass(below part).electron can't pass or leak.

Electrolyte part is upper part,electron can pass this part(from center electrode

• to water to Hemispheric dome cover[-]black color).look at water level.

reason from this,i think "Capacitor part make electric field(electrical stress) and make elongate water molecule(another word make tetrahedron).And Electrolyte part make Hydrogen in efficiency way because no lose electron from power source to heat(by electron hit resistance of water,become to heat).Electron go to H+(pos ion Hydrogen) then make H2(hydrogen gas)".

Just thought
thanks
geenee

i had a new theory.look at a attached picture.

use electrical stress(from 2 HV voltage fields to make tetrahedron) and create electron way from oxygen negative ion to hydrogen positive ion by use 2 exciter plates connect with copper wire.Oxygen ion(Oxygen 2-) lose electron then it will be bound to O2(oxygen gas) and Hydrogen ion(Hydrogen+) accept electron then it will be bound to H2(hydrogen gas).

if use electrical stress only,it will make just H+ and O 2-(hydrogen ion and oxygen ion).there're not a gas.

-about Puharich's patens,hard to understand why put ac carrier wave to water then water cell act like RC circuit low pass filter,the ac wave become dc rectify??why??? or 2 waves were modulated from pulse wave(dc wave low frequency) and sine wave(high frequency)????

thanks
geenee

Quote from geenee on July 15th, 2012, 12:49 AM

i had a new theory.look at a attached picture.

use electrical stress(from 2 HV voltage fields to make tetrahedron) and create electron way from oxygen negative ion to hydrogen positive ion by use 2 exciter plates connect with copper wire.Oxygen ion(Oxygen 2-) lose electron then it will be bound to O2(oxygen gas) and Hydrogen ion(Hydrogen+) accept electron then it will be bound to H2(hydrogen gas).

if use electrical stress only,it will make just H+ and O 2-(hydrogen ion and oxygen ion).there're not a gas.

-about Puharich's patens,hard to understand why put ac carrier wave to water then water cell act like RC circuit low pass filter,the ac wave become dc rectify??why??? or 2 waves were modulated from pulse wave(dc wave low frequency) and sine wave(high frequency)????

thanks
geenee

I am still learning a lot about electronics and WFC.  I do think Meyer followed Puharich's patent information to develop his WFC.  You may find this written explanation and these video segments of a lecture by Puharich about his patent helpful.  I will give you the links so you can go directly to them.  

http://www.rexresearch.com/puharich/1puhar.htm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oa0bFK6iNI&feature=player_embedded   1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAmQDpcfkMk&feature=player_embedded  2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mcEcys8-lg&feature=player_embedded 3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_0Gty-RR90&feature=relmfu   4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GOD6uqzVzs&feature=player_embedded   5

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pcOJpPmfCc&feature=player_embedded

Hope this helps

Dave

Quote from dlpatte on July 15th, 2012, 03:57 PM

Quote from geenee on July 15th, 2012, 12:49 AM

i had a new theory.look at a attached picture.

use electrical stress(from 2 HV voltage fields to make tetrahedron) and create electron way from oxygen negative ion to hydrogen positive ion by use 2 exciter plates connect with copper wire.Oxygen ion(Oxygen 2-) lose electron then it will be bound to O2(oxygen gas) and Hydrogen ion(Hydrogen+) accept electron then it will be bound to H2(hydrogen gas).

if use electrical stress only,it will make just H+ and O 2-(hydrogen ion and oxygen ion).there're not a gas.

-about Puharich's patens,hard to understand why put ac carrier wave to water then water cell act like RC circuit low pass filter,the ac wave become dc rectify??why??? or 2 waves were modulated from pulse wave(dc wave low frequency) and sine wave(high frequency)????

thanks
geenee

I am still learning a lot about electronics and WFC.  I do think Meyer followed Puharich's patent information to develop his WFC.  You may find this written explanation and these video segments of a lecture by Puharich about his patent helpful.  I will give you the links so you can go directly to them.  

http://www.rexresearch.com/puharich/1puhar.htm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oa0bFK6iNI&feature=player_embedded   1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAmQDpcfkMk&feature=player_embedded  2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mcEcys8-lg&feature=player_embedded 3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_0Gty-RR90&feature=relmfu   4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GOD6uqzVzs&feature=player_embedded   5

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pcOJpPmfCc&feature=player_embedded

Hope this helps

Dave

Thanks alots,Dave.
I try to make this test,to proof that.i will post soon.

geenee

i found something from old patent(US4798661-Gas_Generator_Voltage_Control_Circuit).and reference patent of Meyer(Horvath- US 3954592).

in Faraday's law of electrolysis. m=(Q/F)*(M/z)

m is the mass of the substance liberated at an electrode in grams
Q is the total electric charge passed through the substance.
F = 96,485 C mol−1 is the Faraday constant
M is the molar mass of the substance
z is the valency number of ions of the substance (electrons transferred per ion).

it(production) dependent on current and independent on voltage.Meyer, Horvath and Puharich make the same = high Amps.

But Meyer use another way = High Voltage by restrict Amps.The result is when charge water capacitor(like capacitor)voltage go up and use little amps(capacitor has no amps flow) Volt=200 V ,Amps=0.5 ,P=100W when   dielectric of water is failure,voltage will drop rapidly to nearly 0 voltage then Amps is go up to infinite(but the real is not but very high 200amps+ if votage drop to 0.5 volt or less, P=100W).

this is Amps too.but another ways.Meyer try to make Voltage up more and find the way to make high voltage(like charge capacitor to more voltage nearly dielectric failure and make dielectric failure and stop then start charge again and again).when dielectric failure,amps will flow more and can't control power lose(in this time Meyer stop charge(off time) to make economic way).

Example. if Meyer said use voltage 10,000V and 1 mA (10W) when dielectric failure ,voltage drop to nearly 0 volt ,if voltage = 0.001 V then Amps is 10,000 Amps ,if voltage = 0.0001 then Amps is 100,000 Amps. <----- high amps spike in a short time. At this 100,000 Amps can make high production, Faraday laws is current dependent only(But real world current relate voltage,Meyer see this and use another way=Voltage).  

Example. like Capacitor dielectric failure,electrolyte polar capacitor 400V ,1uF. if you charge by 500-1,000V to capacitor(400V) ,voltage will step up charge from 0-400V and 401V -----> BLOOOMMM dielectric failure ----->high amps make capacitor to explode and that time no more voltage(0 volt or nearly) from short circuit.
( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WheLp0RdLQ )  ---->youtube example

priory art is
- How many Voltages to make dielectric failure of water?(5mm gap,10mm gap,1/4 inch gap)
- How many wait times(for being dielectric again) to start charge water capacitor again?(stop charge time or off time=gate frequency)

all good explain in old patents(US4798661) not in New patents.

thanks
geenee

If you guys say that Meyer ''copied'' Pulharich how did he read his patents?Meyer's patent were not public for 10 years or so...Pulharich published the electrolisis patent in the 80's about the same time Stan was working at his devices...How much time Pulharich patents were not public?

adys15,I don't know about patent government but in US4798661(1989) of Meyer reference Puharich US4394230(1983).see in patents i attached.I didn't mean "Meyer copied".but use a concept.

- picture 1 ,in old patents use variable resistor to inhibit amps and negative exciter has dielectric or resistive layer.

- picture 2 ,if use resistor and dielectric layer then can inhibit amps flow and voltage can go up to high value,not breakdown before dielectric failure of water.

- picture 3,4 - there are a theory that i talk about.there's very important(from US4798661).

thanks
geenee

Quote from geenee on July 22nd, 2012, 08:23 AM

adys15,I don't know about patent government but in US4798661(1989) of Meyer reference Puharich US4394230(1983).see in patents i attached.I didn't mean "Meyer copied".but use a concept.

- picture 1 ,in old patents use variable resistor to inhibit amps and negative exciter has dielectric or resistive layer.

- picture 2 ,if use resistor and dielectric layer then can inhibit amps flow and voltage can go up to high value,not breakdown before dielectric failure of water.

- picture 3,4 - there are a theory that i talk about.there's very important(from US4798661).

thanks
geenee

Hi folks,

you see the "breakdown point" and the "negative electrical potential" in the second attachment? This is one of the most important diagramms which I saw in Meyers patents IMHO.
This behaviour is from arcs in the water.

I tested this a lot. The water reacts like a neon tube.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Doutnavka.svg

When the electrodes becoming warm, arcs can form and the amperage in the water is much higher then the amperage input.

In my test, I started with 4 amps, when the water is warm it rises to 8 amps. Then when the arcs appear in the water (very tiny) the input amperage drops down to 3-5 amps. A lot of heat is produced, but also a lot of HHO.

First at starting the hole input voltage is measureable. When the arcs appear, the voltage drops first and then when a stabile state is happening the prefix of the voltage turn around (!!) to negative and drops again dramatically. So it changes from a power consumer to a power producer. :)

Here is some similar. http://jlnlabs.online.fr/cfr/ape/apenrg.htm
I tried this with two tubes --> also working.

So it looks like there is an avalanche effect on the water. It produces free electrons (=current).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avalanche_breakdown
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Townsend_discharge
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_discharge_in_gases
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorescent_lamp#Electrical_aspects_of_operation

So maybe this process can be started easier with a HV puls to ignite the avalanch (like in the "water spark plug" project
http://www.panaceauniversity.org/Water%20Spark%20Plug.pdf )
and can be hold on a stabile ionisation/avalanche level with little current. So maybe some sort of resistore in front of the wfc is bringing an effect to inhibit the amps and to inhibit the heat in the WFC (maybe a coil or somehting). -->VIC circuit with HV pulses.

Found some analogy to Stanley Meyers patent US4798661. In this patent you can read, that he used several technics to inhibit current flow in the direction to the WFC. So the input will be at a minimum, but when the arcs (maybe not visible) are formed, more current is in flowing through the water then the input is. --> "resonant" state

Greetings  




 

great input,Amsy.

this link's very interesting.
http://jlnlabs.online.fr/cfr/ape/apenrg.htm

i think "Old patent is made clearly understanding".

Amsy,how about is your research?(Positive High voltage to water)

Anyone?Do you know about this materiel?? No. 73,70,72,74.


thanks
geenee



 

Hi geenee,

thanks, I found that links during my research on water-spark plug.

I always come back to that point, that all of Meyer´s research ends up in the today so called "water spark plug" but only with other devices and components. But maybe the same theory. (HV and inhibit current to form plasma).

I agree, sometimes it is better to study the old patents. Do you know that the patent 4798661 is the device in the attachment?

So Meyer studied first, with this device, how the current through water will act. With the device he was able to make a basic research how to build up this "plasma" in best way. You see he was forming different types of resistance to inhibit the input current. Could also adjust the resistance with a variable resistor for the best result.
I think the "negative voltage zone" is some speacial. Because when the voltage measured on the WFC is turning to a negative Voltage, then it acts like a voltage supply (Electron extraction circuit of meyer).

I think the material of the isolating plates aren´t descripted in the patent.

Edit: thinking of that the device attached was the pre inovation of the vic. So maybe same technology.
And again I come back to this topic because the 18kV test brings no results jet, unfortunattely. But still researching, how I could make ionisation or plasma!

Greetings

Another reference, possibly with more information:
http://www.svpvril.com/Cosmology/addendum13.html

Low frequency modulated AC with special (water spark plug looking) reactor cell.  Achieves 100% efficiency, or so claimed.


Very low power ~ 0.25mA, 2.36 to 4 volts, low production rate ~ 5.2 cc/min HHO.


Probably not suitable for running an engine unless you have a fairly huge array of them.

Thanks, interesting!