Quote from Dog-One on October 7th, 2012, 05:28 PM

Quote from Jeff Nading on October 7th, 2012, 03:14 PM

Yes that's the same video.:D

The ol' guy is right, nature is constantly talking to us, we just need to learn how to listen.

JEFF  - It`s   fgunsmoke  If you take a coil like Russ used on his TPU and slide it on a bolt (long enough to clear the coil ) then place a small neodyminum magnet on bottom of bolt. Then add  a LED light to coil.  When you tap top of bolt the LED light will come on -if you reverse the wires the light will come on when you disconnect.  You don`t need a u-bolt but I used steel to tap with and I didn`t charge with a battery.  To me - I`m breaking the magnetic lines which is sending a spike though the coil which lights the LED. I would call this a small magneto.   Have fun

Quote from Lynx on October 4th, 2012, 01:00 PM

As we only see a few revs here I'm a tad suspicious as to why they're not showing like 10 mins of spinning or so..........?
Also, what happens if the magnet were to be bolted to the board, would the wheel then start spinning if you put the ball next to it?
I guess the only (?) way to find out would be to actually build the thing yourself.
Having been building various perm magnet devices of sort in the past I would choose to make a plastic wheel, just to avoid the risk
of magnetizing the whole wheel, with all the probs that follows with that.

We are going to find out here pretty soon guys.  I have my CNC mill running and I'm just brushing up on MasterCAM well enough to machine some plastic parts.  I plan to have really high precision with this puppy so if it don't work, it won't work, period.  And if it does work, I will start a thread titled the "Motorvator" with all the gory details, drawings, G-code, parts list, the works.  I very likely will even send a few lucky forum members working models--just in case I get hit by a bus or something.  The next step will be for you guys to really get "Motorvated" and turn this into something awesome.

Attached is a little teaser image.

Quote from Dog-One on November 18th, 2012, 10:20 PM

Quote from Lynx on October 4th, 2012, 01:00 PM

As we only see a few revs here............

We are going to find out here pretty soon guys.  I have my CNC mill running and I'm just brushing up on MasterCAM well enough to machine some plastic parts.  I plan to have really high precision with this puppy so if it don't work, it won't work, period.  And if it does work, I will start a thread titled the "Motorvator" with all the gory details, drawings, G-code, parts list, the works.  I very likely will even send a few lucky forum members working models--just in case I get hit by a bus or something.  The next step will be for you guys to really get "Motorvated" and turn this into something awesome.

Attached is a little teaser image.

Now we're talking :D
Make sure that the track for the ball has some friction to it so the ball don't just
slide it's way up to the magnet.
Make that sucker spin the wheel around, prefeably 24/7 :D

Quote from fgunsmoke on November 18th, 2012, 09:55 PM

Quote from Dog-One on October 7th, 2012, 05:28 PM

Quote from Jeff Nading on October 7th, 2012, 03:14 PM

Yes that's the same video.:D

The ol' guy is right, nature is constantly talking to us, we just need to learn how to listen.

JEFF  - It`s   fgunsmoke  If you take a coil like Russ used on his TPU and slide it on a bolt (long enough to clear the coil ) then place a small neodyminum magnet on bottom of bolt. Then add  a LED light to coil.  When you tap top of bolt the LED light will come on -if you reverse the wires the light will come on when you disconnect.  You don`t need a u-bolt but I used steel to tap with and I didn`t charge with a battery.  To me - I`m breaking the magnetic lines which is sending a spike though the coil which lights the LED. I would call this a small magneto.   Have fun

Cool, :cool:  and yes, I learned many years ago that you have to have movement, a coil or an electro magnetic coil, an iron bar or a magnet to produce electrical energy. The alternator needing 12 volts dc and no magnets or the generator not needing or having just the opposite. The twist is the EPG, which would use a magnetic gas, pumped through the coils "movement". Very cool test you have done to prove the point. Thanks Jeff.:cool::D:P

Quote from Dog-One on November 18th, 2012, 10:20 PM

Quote from Lynx on October 4th, 2012, 01:00 PM

As we only see a few revs here I'm a tad suspicious as to why they're not showing like 10 mins of spinning or so..........?
Also, what happens if the magnet were to be bolted to the board, would the wheel then start spinning if you put the ball next to it?
I guess the only (?) way to find out would be to actually build the thing yourself.
Having been building various perm magnet devices of sort in the past I would choose to make a plastic wheel, just to avoid the risk
of magnetizing the whole wheel, with all the probs that follows with that.

We are going to find out here pretty soon guys.  I have my CNC mill running and I'm just brushing up on MasterCAM well enough to machine some plastic parts.  I plan to have really high precision with this puppy so if it don't work, it won't work, period.  And if it does work, I will start a thread titled the "Motorvator" with all the gory details, drawings, G-code, parts list, the works.  I very likely will even send a few lucky forum members working models--just in case I get hit by a bus or something.  The next step will be for you guys to really get "Motorvated" and turn this into something awesome.

Attached is a little teaser image.

That's awesome Dog-one really cool .:cool::D:P

i believe these magnet systems will work. But they are not overunity. They use up the stored magnetic force in the magnets. By using magnets to work they die of earlier. Still it will run for a very long time, but it uses the energy stored in the magnets.

This next video shows also a nice setup for a permanent magnet motor.

Quote from Jeff Nading on November 19th, 2012, 06:11 AM

That's awesome Dog-one really cool .:cool::D:P

Hmmm...   Not looking so good thus far.  I have everything built, balanced the wheel and started trying to find a spot to mount the magnet.  No joy.  It appears the magnetic field from the magnet grabs on to the ball from every direction which prevents it from rolling.  You guys with good eyes go back and look at the original video and see if you spot any signs of compressed air being used.

BTW, the wheel in the background is what you will end up with if you don't use a top notch CAM program--busted bits, cut fingers and broken crappy parts.

Looks good so far dog-one:D:cool:, I like it.

Quote from Lynx on October 4th, 2012, 01:00 PM

Quote from KevinW-dirtwill on October 4th, 2012, 10:18 AM

Looks real to me. Anyone else wanna take a guess?

As we only see a few revs here I'm a tad suspicious as to why they're not showing like 10 mins of spinning or so..........?
Also, what happens if the magnet were to be bolted to the board, would the wheel then start spinning if you put the ball next to it?
I guess the only (?) way to find out would be to actually build the thing yourself.
Having been building various perm magnet devices of sort in the past I would choose to make a plastic wheel, just to avoid the risk
of magnetizing the whole wheel, with all the probs that follows with that.

I think we've been had folks.  Here's another video from the same cat--he's quite the editor apparently:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHDFxm7ZU4Q
Something tells me the guy is handsomely paid for making these videos.

Oh well, I have a nice CNC setup to make all sorts of parts if someone comes up with an idea I can make from plastic.

Quote from Dog-One on November 25th, 2012, 07:38 PM

Quote from Jeff Nading on November 19th, 2012, 06:11 AM

That's awesome Dog-one really cool .:cool::D:P

Hmmm...   Not looking so good thus far.  I have everything built, balanced the wheel and started trying to find a spot to mount the magnet.  No joy.  It appears the magnetic field from the magnet grabs on to the ball from every direction which prevents it from rolling.  You guys with good eyes go back and look at the original video and see if you spot any signs of compressed air being used.

BTW, the wheel in the background is what you will end up with if you don't use a top notch CAM program--busted bits, cut fingers and broken crappy parts.

I think the key may be to lift the ball a bit with the magnet. In the original the magnet is placed a bit higher then i see on your setup.

Same old if it looks to good to be true then.
Too bad.
How far away are you from reshaping it into the V-shaped magnet wheel thing?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onbp8N_otHI
This one looks more promising as it accelerates.
But then who knows, maybe all these vids are paid for by the permanent magnet industry.

Quote from Lynx on November 26th, 2012, 01:33 AM

Same old if it looks to good to be true then.
Too bad.
How far away are you from reshaping it into the V-shaped magnet wheel thing?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onbp8N_otHI
This one looks more promising as it accelerates.
But then who knows, maybe all these vids are paid for by the permanent magnet industry.

Its not to good to be true..its just using the force of the magnet to spin the wheel. That's not something new or weird. That magnets attract is something science accepts. So science accepts the pulling force... And nothing more is needed here.

Its more a question of build, used materials. The plastic has more friction on the ball then the alluminum of the example. The iron ball in the example is shiny, the one here is dim coated, giving more friction?

There is no reason why this can't work..as long as the attraction is big enough to rotate the wheel.

We don't trust the normal science laws any more when spending time in the overunity field?

Quote from Lynx on September 14th, 2012, 02:15 AM

www.youtube.com/watch?v=xR6Qait2JGY :cool:

This one is a trick video.

Monopool is non existing. He flips the magnets.

He must have a battery in the wood, between the 2 nails, reading 2,5 volt

Also because otherwise there would be no circuit for the spinning coil to work.
The force of the magnet gives an induction, but induction can only work in a closed circuit.

Its a simple motor with the principles of a electric motor.

Quote from Lynx on November 26th, 2012, 01:33 AM

Same old if it looks to good to be true then.
Too bad.
How far away are you from reshaping it into the V-shaped magnet wheel thing?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onbp8N_otHI
This one looks more promising as it accelerates.
But then who knows, maybe all these vids are paid for by the permanent magnet industry.

Could be.

If I can convince Jeff to assist me in converting my CNC mill to a 3D printer, I may just see if I can make one of those goofy mag wheels and give that a whirl.  I do recall someone on Utube working endlessly to find a decent gating mechanism for one of those, but he kept running into problems where he would strip off so much momentum from the rotating wheel that he just couldn't keep it running.  Magnets are strange animals as I learned again from this last experiment--they seem to grab onto things in a way contrary to what one would think.  I wouldn't be a bit surprised with the v-mag wheel the pull force required to lift the gate magnet exceeds the force generated by a single rotation of the wheel.  Almost sounds like that "conservation of energy" stuff we keep beating ourselves up with.  hehe.  :D

Quote from KevinW-dirtwill on October 4th, 2012, 10:18 AM

Looks real to me. Anyone else wanna take a guess?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkLfpXpO5sQ&feature=player_embedded#!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkLfpXpO5sQ&feature=player_embedded#!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkLfpXpO5sQ

fgunsmoke here-- this is of old  - not much you can do but watch it run.  This is like a mouse running in a caged wheel but this time you have a string attached to the mouse so he doesn`t slid down the slope.  Where  the magnet is holding the steel ball from rolling down the slope and keeps making the ball roll back and the rolling back is the key to the wheel revolving. Novelty   To scale-up huge?   Have fun   p.s. The wheel size /steel ball size (weight) for friction  does make a difference as to when the ball will lose its friction and fall back to the point where the magnet will grab it again.

Quote from FaradayEZ on November 26th, 2012, 02:51 PM

Its more a question of build, used materials. The plastic has more friction on the ball then the alluminum of the example. The iron ball in the example is shiny, the one here is dim coated, giving more friction?

There is no reason why this can't work..as long as the attraction is big enough to rotate the wheel.

We don't trust the normal science laws any more when spending time in the overunity field?

I started using a mouse ball with high friction, then cut the covering off to get at the raw steel ball.  I tried for hours and hours in every position imaginable to get the ball to offset the balance of the wheel enough to get the wheel to rotate--it just wasn't happening.  Mind you, the bearings were really good too.  Once balanced the wheel would spin with a simple swipe of the hand for nearly ten minutes.  It is somewhat a "you had to be there" experience.  When the magnet pulls on the steel ball, it pulls from every angle; all at once.  The ball simply refuses to roll, slid or do anything.  If you pull back in 1/2 mm increments nothing changes until all at once, gravity overpowers the magnet and the ball falls completely away from the magnet.  If you watch the video closely, you will see the ball bobbling.  I never saw this effect at all.  The ball was either firmly attracted to the magnet or it was not.  No in between, no bobble.  I suppose there is still hope.  My wheel was slightly smaller than the one in the video and that possibly screws up the angles required to see the effect.  I also tried adjusting the spacing between the wheels, one washer at a time thinking there might be a sweet spot someplace where the angular motion of the ball against the wheel rim acts like a gear.  I was certain this must be the trick to it, but I never found it.  So it's not over, but I'm at least 80% confident this little contraption is a bust.  For now, it will sit on the dining room table with a toaster cover over it.  :(

One other thing, do keep in mind the other video I posted that was from the same guy at Visual Education Project.  Visual Education Project, that should be a key and is far different from their supposed mission statement.  If I had this scenario on an exam, my first thought would be:

Question:  These guys create videos, what's wrong with this picture?
Answer:  The thing doesn't actually work in real life.
Follow-up Question:  How was the video created to make it look like it works?


Visual Education, that's what they are really teaching.  I should have done my homework before I built the device, not after.

I think the way you milled the space for the ball, has to much contactsurface.

The original has 2 thin aluminum rails.

In Dog's one it looks more like (O) so the contactsurface between ball and plastic is much bigger.

Simple way to test this is to put the ball in the wheel and rotate the wheel like the person does in the original. Then see how far the ball travels in hight. On the original it stays in between the bottom 4 inches, so maybe less then plus and minus 22 degrees.

If your project has more friction, then your ball will travel along higher.

This is easy to check.

If you find more friction there, then you have to change the form of the running slope.
......|.....O.....|.....
.......\.../..\.../......

more like into this way, minimizing the contact surface. And the best is to use a hard material of course.

It think it has to be easy for the ball to slide and use a little friction to rotate the wheel when traveling back to the magnet.


Succes,

Quote from FaradayEZ on November 27th, 2012, 07:41 AM

I think the way you milled the space for the ball, has to much contactsurface.

The original has 2 thin aluminum rails.

In Dog's one it looks more like (O) so the contactsurface between ball and plastic is much bigger.

Simple way to test this is to put the ball in the wheel and rotate the wheel like the person does in the original. Then see how far the ball travels in hight. On the original it stays in between the bottom 4 inches, so maybe less then plus and minus 22 degrees.

If your project has more friction, then your ball will travel along higher.

This is easy to check.

If you find more friction there, then you have to change the form of the running slope.
......|.....O.....|.....
.......\.../..\.../......

more like into this way, minimizing the contact surface. And the best is to use a hard material of course.

It think it has to be easy for the ball to slide and use a little friction to rotate the wheel when traveling back to the magnet.

Succes,

The ball only touches the edge of the outer slot wall which I purposely took great care in machining.  The ball, with or without its rubber jacket rolls smoothly inside the wheel.  It doesn't stick or climb the walls when the wheel is spun hard by hand.  But when you get the magnet near it, the ball stops rolling or sliding completely, as though it is glued to the wheel.  The only thing I can't really explain is the size of the wheel and the mass of the wheel--those are both possibly factors I did not account for.

My replication is slightly different than the wheel in the video in that once the ball is placed in my wheel and assembled, you cannot get the ball back out--this was by design.  The surface contact of the ball against the wheel is identical.

Quote from Dog-One on November 27th, 2012, 08:09 PM

Quote from FaradayEZ on November 27th, 2012, 07:41 AM

I think the way you milled the space for the ball, has to much contactsurface.

The original has 2 thin aluminum rails.

In Dog's one it looks more like (O) so the contactsurface between ball and plastic is much bigger.

Simple way to test this is to put the ball in the wheel and rotate the wheel like the person does in the original. Then see how far the ball travels in hight. On the original it stays in between the bottom 4 inches, so maybe less then plus and minus 22 degrees.

If your project has more friction, then your ball will travel along higher.

This is easy to check.

If you find more friction there, then you have to change the form of the running slope.
......|.....O.....|.....
.......\.../..\.../......

more like into this way, minimizing the contact surface. And the best is to use a hard material of course.

It think it has to be easy for the ball to slide and use a little friction to rotate the wheel when traveling back to the magnet.

Succes,

The ball only touches the edge of the outer slot wall which I purposely took great care in machining.  The ball, with or without its rubber jacket rolls smoothly inside the wheel.  It doesn't stick or climb the walls when the wheel is spun hard by hand.  But when you get the magnet near it, the ball stops rolling or sliding completely, as though it is glued to the wheel.  The only thing I can't really explain is the size of the wheel and the mass of the wheel--those are both possibly factors I did not account for.

My replication is slightly different than the wheel in the video in that once the ball is placed in my wheel and assembled, you cannot get the ball back out--this was by design.  The surface contact of the ball against the wheel is identical.

Ok, if your ball has the same friction..and your wheel is turning effortlessly..then i also have no idea anymore what is keeping it from working.

Maybe what you say as..the ball is incapsuled by the magnet..maybe the ball of the original is bigger and does not get captured by the magnetic lines?

Otherwise..i don't know..and still i think this original setup must be a workable thing.

Maybe it has to do with that aluminum reacts weird to magnetisme..don't see how that could influence things but that was the last squeezed out  thought..;)


P.s. After the last thought..how about finding the videomaker and mailing him..let him check this thread and give input?

Quote from FaradayEZ on November 27th, 2012, 10:36 PM

Ok, if your ball has the same friction..and your wheel is turning effortlessly..then i also have no idea anymore what is keeping it from working.

Maybe what you say as..the ball is incapsuled by the magnet..maybe the ball of the original is bigger and does not get captured by the magnetic lines?

Otherwise..i don't know..and still i think this original setup must be a workable thing.

Maybe it has to do with that aluminum reacts weird to magnetisme..don't see how that could influence things but that was the last squeezed out  thought..;)

P.s. After the last thought..how about finding the videomaker and mailing him..let him check this thread and give input?

I'm certainly not trying to clobber your enthusiasm--wish I could keep my own up on this project because at a distance it really does seem workable.

Tell you what, just get you a small plastic or glass jar, put a steel ball in it and drag it around with a magnet.  Tell me if you don't recognize that "feel" where the magnet either has a hold of the ball or it doesn't.  And when it has a hold of the ball, notice how the ball "feels" almost like its position is locked in space.  I can't really describe it well enough in writing, I just encourage you to try it and let it imprint in your mind what it is.  This really has me baffled, especially the rolling part of it.  It would seem like the ball would still roll just fine, but it doesn't.  It's almost like the magnet focuses is force on one specific spot on the metal ball and holds it there.  I don't have any vocabulary for what that phenomena is, but if you try my simple experiment, you will recognize it when you see it.  It is this very effect that seems to clobber my machine from doing what one would think it is capable of.

P.S.  If the maker of that video did "fake" the experiment, it would seem to me he would do it by putting a battery and pulsing circuit in that magnet base, then use an electromagnet with contacts on the bottom that look like a typical bar magnet.  By pushing down the electromagnet, it begins pulsing.  With pulsing, the off-time would allow the ball to roll and bobble as the video shows.  Also, the frequency of the pulsing would in effect set a maximum speed the wheel would accelerate to.  Think about it, if a permanent magnet pulled on the steel ball and the ball could still roll, the maximum speed of the wheel would only be limited by the friction in the device which could be quite high.  In the video, the speed seemed to stabilize at a fairly low RPM, though the wheel bearings appeared to be pretty low friction.  Just something to think about.

Quote from Dog-One on November 27th, 2012, 11:06 PM

P.S.  If the maker of that video did "fake" the experiment, it would seem to me he would do it by putting a battery and pulsing circuit in that magnet base, then use an electromagnet with contacts on the bottom that look like a typical bar magnet.  By pushing down the electromagnet, it begins pulsing.  With pulsing, the off-time would allow the ball to roll and bobble as the video shows.  Also, the frequency of the pulsing would in effect set a maximum speed the wheel would accelerate to.  Think about it, if a permanent magnet pulled on the steel ball and the ball could still roll, the maximum speed of the wheel would only be limited by the friction in the device which could be quite high.  In the video, the speed seemed to stabilize at a fairly low RPM, though the wheel bearings appeared to be pretty low friction.  Just something to think about.

I'd buy that explanation, it makes sense given that you know how the ball reacts
to the magnet.
The problem then would be to somehow make the magnet oscillate or pulsate.
What if you tried just that, using an electromagnet instead of the perm magnet,
one that which you continuously pulse?
At the "correct" frequency the ball would then start acting as planned and the
wheel would then subsequently start spinning.
Then you atleast know that it's a pulsing thing that's needed, which could be
hard to utilize without some form of electric circuit.

Quote from Dog-One on November 27th, 2012, 11:06 PM

I'm certainly not trying to clobber your enthusiasm--wish I could keep my own up on this project because at a distance it really does seem workable.

I tried with 2 small magnets and a piece of paper, it was indicisive. I don't like the feeling that nothing is to be trusted anymore. If you do a hoax then tell people

Grumblll....

Quote from FaradayEZ on November 28th, 2012, 09:31 AM

I tried with 2 small magnets and a piece of paper, it was indicisive. I don't like the feeling that nothing is to be trusted anymore. If you do a hoax then tell people

Grumblll....

Me either.  That's why we need to become sovereign individuals again and take our world back.  OpenSource Energy will go a long way in obtaining that goal.

Quote from Dog-One on November 28th, 2012, 11:57 AM

Quote from FaradayEZ on November 28th, 2012, 09:31 AM

I tried with 2 small magnets and a piece of paper, it was indicisive. I don't like the feeling that nothing is to be trusted anymore. If you do a hoax then tell people

Grumblll....

Me either.  That's why we need to become sovereign individuals again and take our world back.  OpenSource Energy will go a long way in obtaining that goal.

Like this example...
http://youtu.be/yoCBORXzOqU   i can't find the hoax
~~~~~~~~~~
http://youtu.be/f0fwjY6_-1M  from the same uploader...
http://youtu.be/sl6Zc4M7aYQ someone found the hoax


Resisting the temptation to rebuild...its a shame to put it out as serious, next they use computergraphics to trick us in making the false stuff??

Quote from FaradayEZ on November 28th, 2012, 02:11 PM

Resisting the temptation to rebuild...its a shame to put it out as serious, next they use computergraphics to trick us in making the false stuff??

There is a guy on UTube by the name of Freddy Wong that does some incredible video editing.  What I like most about his videos are the trailers where he shows you how he did it.