For the last two weeks i have done a lot of testing with varios coil/watercap combinations and it seems that with whatever combination i try i only get selfresonance  between the coils and no LC resonance at all. So eventhough i have a calculated LC resonance of about 1KHz i only see a resonant signal of about 14-15KHz with my coils, ... the choke-watercapacitor resonance is not there. It is as Russ and Dynodon also found, ... you can let out the water cell entirely and it will not influence anything. Since the pll range is from about 200Hz-5000Hz it will never lock in anyway with my current coils.

Anyway this leads me to the following two possibilities:
1) there is no LC resonance at all in the meyer system only between the three coils, we just need to lock in to the self resonance of the vic 'transformer' to get maximum voltage at the cell plates.
2) there is a need for LC resonance and we need to get the self resonance down, ... not sure how to achieve this

What are your thoughts/experiences about this?

Quote from Sharky on April 13th, 2012, 03:38 AM

For the last two weeks i have done a lot of testing with varios coil/watercap combinations and it seems that with whatever combination i try i only get selfresonance  between the coils and no LC resonance at all. So eventhough i have a calculated LC resonance of about 1KHz i only see a resonant signal of about 14-15KHz with my coils, ... the choke-watercapacitor resonance is not there. It is as Russ and Dynodon also found, ... you can let out the water cell entirely and it will not influence anything. Since the pll range is from about 200Hz-5000Hz it will never lock in anyway with my current coils.

Anyway this leads me to the following two possibilities:
1) there is no LC resonance at all in the meyer system only between the three coils, we just need to lock in to the self resonance of the vic 'transformer' to get maximum voltage at the cell plates.
2) there is a need for LC resonance and we need to get the self resonance down, ... not sure how to achieve this

What are your thoughts/experiences about this?

Hi Sharky,

What water type did you use and what is your water gap. Do you use the 3 inch wfc in your setup?

Check from here: http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=170&pid=3818#pid3818 and give comments and thoughts :cool:

-There is "R" LC RESONANCE between RESONANT CHOKE and WFC "R".
-Self-resonance can be lowered if you change the core with higher perm.

Update:
At this moment I have no WFC (3 incher).
I also have approx 14kHz resonance frequency (opposite voltages AC from the chokes) My manual pulse generator go to 16kHz and PLL has limit of 10kHz, but I have not 50% duty cycle from it.
I also think we have resonance (choke self-resonance)  Cp 100-120pF parasitic and the 1100mH choke inductor.:) But as I said the WFC resistance is also a factor and what happens if the cell has lower capacitance than the choke in a series RLC...or higher capacitance... (series capacitors, lower capacitance than the lowest value) :exclamation:

Br,
Webmug

My quic reply...

It's all got to match? Impedance matching is key. Also it could be a harmonic of the coils! So let the coils resonate at what ever frequncy they want if it matches a harmonic of the water cap.

See, you can resonate somthing at a harmonic and see that lower frequncy or higher frequncy but never apply the direct resonant frequncy... It's a voltage wave guide. It will resonate.

As what amplitude??? I don't know. Mabby the cores and water caps will make it hapen. But I have been playing with my 30 awg, orgnail water cap, and Vic circuit. ( toneys and the other) and I just don't see much... But I don't have te cores yet... Just low perm iron.

I know the cores will make a huge deference.      

I also want to Ask, how can we achieve the Bipolar "voltage dubbing" and unipolar pulse??? I just wan to see that wave form. And have no luck. Forget about the Vic... With those consepts. How can we make it hapen?

Agh! It's time for a nap.. Been up for EVeR! Lol

~Russ

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on April 13th, 2012, 11:18 AM

My quic reply...

It's all got to match? Impedance matching is key. Also it could be a harmonic of the coils! So let the coils resonate at what ever frequncy they want if it matches a harmonic of the water cap.

See, you can resonate somthing at a harmonic and see that lower frequncy or higher frequncy but never apply the direct resonant frequncy... It's a voltage wave guide. It will resonate.

As what amplitude??? I don't know. Mabby the cores and water caps will make it hapen. But I have been playing with my 30 awg, orgnail water cap, and Vic circuit. ( toneys and the other) and I just don't see much... But I don't have te cores yet... Just low perm iron.

I know the cores will make a huge deference.      

I also want to Ask, how can we achieve the Bipolar "voltage dubbing" and unipolar pulse??? I just wan to see that wave form. And have no luck. Forget about the Vic... With those consepts. How can we make it hapen?

Agh! It's time for a nap.. Been up for EVeR! Lol

~Russ

Hi Russ

PLease look though here, as there is mountains of info most things have been answered, it is now time to help clip and past the best of the best current as we find it to  final guides,  if you look through

this you may find some examples , it is a public edit doc
 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SiPuaX_kvldohC_BSPG9Q8TLQQ1sa8AQby5Pdhttps://docs.google.com/document/d/1SiPuaX_kvldohC_BSPG9Q8TLQQ1sa8AQby5PdsKd0kk/edit#sKd0kk/edit#

Quote from Sharky on April 13th, 2012, 03:38 AM

For the last two weeks i have done a lot of testing with varios coil/watercap combinations and it seems that with whatever combination i try i only get selfresonance  between the coils and no LC resonance at all. So eventhough i have a calculated LC resonance of about 1KHz i only see a resonant signal of about 14-15KHz with my coils, ... the choke-watercapacitor resonance is not there. It is as Russ and Dynodon also found, ... you can let out the water cell entirely and it will not influence anything. Since the pll range is from about 200Hz-5000Hz it will never lock in anyway with my current coils.

Anyway this leads me to the following two possibilities:
1) there is no LC resonance at all in the meyer system only between the three coils, we just need to lock in to the self resonance of the vic 'transformer' to get maximum voltage at the cell plates.
2) there is a need for LC resonance and we need to get the self resonance down, ... not sure how to achieve this
 
What are your thoughts/experiences about this?

try to use gating for the 2nd resonance. of course gating looks for lower frequencies. don't use autosearch and pll lockin until you found an effect.
YOU must find the pattern and THEN the automatic system can support you to lock in and replicate. there is no system more versatile in pattern recognition and analysis than yourself!

Quote

there is no system more versatile in pattern recognition and analysis than yourself!

that's for sure! :)

~Russ

Russ, do you recall what self resonance frequency you had when using the iron core a while back? I kind of hope the new cores you ordered will get the self resonance frequency below the 10KHz so we can lock on to it with the PLL.

After reading some patents again (every time you read them you find something new :) ) i am ever more convinced the tube configuration is more important than the electronics. This is also logical looking at the different itterations Meyer had on his cells. If electrical resonance between the choke and water cell 'capacitor' is needed to make it work his first versions with the plate and tube cells would not have worked. He clearly states in his patent these first versions actually worked without any pulsing. Later he started to match the pulsing frequency with the resonant cavity frequency to enhance the release of gas (see attachments). That would actually mean that we would not want to have + and - voltages applied simultaneously to tear the hydrogen and oxygen apart but  one after the other, otherwise the water molecules would not move between the cavity and there would be no resonant action, .... that they will move is a proven fact since water is polar. Charge a piece of pvc by rubbing it against your clothes to charge it and hold it near a water stream, it will bent towards the charge. So applying a charge to one of the plates will move the water molecules to that plate.

Just keeping the brainstorm alive here hoping to create the basis for the testcases to do when the cores are in and the cells are ready ....

Quote from Sharky on April 17th, 2012, 10:37 AM

Russ, do you recall what self resonance frequency you had when using the iron core a while back? I kind of hope the new cores you ordered will get the self resonance frequency below the 10KHz so we can lock on to it with the PLL.

After reading some patents again (every time you read them you find something new :) ) i am ever more convinced the tube configuration is more important than the electronics. This is also logical looking at the different itterations Meyer had on his cells. If electrical resonance between the choke and water cell 'capacitor' is needed to make it work his first versions with the plate and tube cells would not have worked. He clearly states in his patent these first versions actually worked without any pulsing. Later he started to match the pulsing frequency with the resonant cavity frequency to enhance the release of gas (see attachments). That would actually mean that we would not want to have + and - voltages applied simultaneously to tear the hydrogen and oxygen apart but  one after the other, otherwise the water molecules would not move between the cavity and there would be no resonant action, .... that they will move is a proven fact since water is polar. Charge a piece of pvc by rubbing it against your clothes to charge it and hold it near a water stream, it will bent towards the charge. So applying a charge to one of the plates will move the water molecules to that plate.

Just keeping the brainstorm alive here hoping to create the basis for the testcases to do when the cores are in and the cells are ready ....

now your on to it! yes. this is what i have been saying for a while. its got to match and its is a wave guide...

any how, good research and and also resonance was really high... over 20khz before i got the nice sign wave...  i dont remember what frequency was but it was way out of audible range...

Quote

So applying a charge to one of the plates will move the water molecules to that plate.

This is why if done correctly you will see the bubbles formed right in the center of the cell... not at the plates. that's the way to confirm your on the right track.

also, in your second reference that was one of his spherical cells... so kinda something to point out.

those make really interesting "wave guides"

~Russ