Tape 4, after 17 minutes

Stephen explains what they knew about and why they used SS

Here the hypothesis of Lamare gets a beating.

The boys where aware of the transistor like, barrier like behavior between their SS and water.

Quote from FaradayEZ on September 26th, 2013, 05:23 AM

Tape 4, after 17 minutes

Stephen explains what they knew about and why they used SS

Here the hypothesis of Lamare gets a beating.

The boys where aware of the transistor like, barrier like behavior between their SS and water.

Beating?

Surely that's a good sign then.......?

Quote from Steve Meyer on September 26th, 2013, 05:23 AM

It's a doping process...........the water that makes contact with the metal sets up a barrier.........it's a barrier technology that we realised was an important part of the cell.......

Most interesting!

Quote from Lynx on September 26th, 2013, 05:26 AM

Quote from FaradayEZ on September 26th, 2013, 05:23 AM

Tape 4, after 17 minutes

Stephen explains what they knew about and why they used SS

Here the hypothesis of Lamare gets a beating.

The boys where aware of the transistor like, barrier like behavior between their SS and water.

Beating?

Surely that's a good sign then.......?

Quote from Steve Meyer on September 26th, 2013, 05:23 AM

It's a doping process...........the water that makes contact with the metal sets up a barrier.........it's a barrier technology that we realised was an important part of the cell.......

Most interesting!

Beating in the sense that if they knew about it and still where not able to get the production back up to drive the buggy again... then knowledge of these properties isn't the fast and easy solution or secret to Stan.

Or we have to change our believe and say that Stan always had the abillity to get enough production, but had no reasons to drive the buggy with the cell again before a camera...

If Stan lost his secret, like Lamare assumes, then we now see that he lost it whilest knowing the barriersecret of SS.

Then i only can conlude that the barriersecret wasn't the key thing like Lamare proposes in his postings about it.

Quote from FaradayEZ on September 26th, 2013, 05:40 AM

Quote from Lynx on September 26th, 2013, 05:26 AM

Quote from FaradayEZ on September 26th, 2013, 05:23 AM

Tape 4, after 17 minutes

Stephen explains what they knew about and why they used SS

Here the hypothesis of Lamare gets a beating.

The boys where aware of the transistor like, barrier like behavior between their SS and water.

Beating?

Surely that's a good sign then.......?

Quote from Steve Meyer on September 26th, 2013, 05:23 AM

It's a doping process...........the water that makes contact with the metal sets up a barrier.........it's a barrier technology that we realised was an important part of the cell.......

Most interesting!

Beating in the sense that if they knew about it and still where not able to get the production back up to drive the buggy again... then knowledge of these properties isn't the fast and easy solution or secret to Stan.

Why do you say that then?
To my knowlege there's no one who has run their WFC the way Lamare/Steve Meyer suggests, except for Stan that is, atleast nothing open source.
My bet is still that Steve knows exactly how to build and operate the WFC as it once did when it powered the dune byggy.
I also think that he chooses to keep the lid on for personal reasons.

Quote from Lynx on September 26th, 2013, 05:45 AM

Why do you say that then?
To my knowlege there's no one who has run their WFC the way Lamare/Steve Meyer suggests, except for Stan that is, atleast nothing open source.
My bet is still that Steve knows exactly how to build and operate the WFC as it once did when it powered the dune byggy.
I also think that he chooses to keep the lid on for personal reasons.

Could be, but i just followed the arguments Lamare made before (Stan loosing his secret) and put this new piece of knowledge in between and then my conclusions aren't strange.

But Steve even claims his 9 years working on it after Stan makes his work/inventions superior. That's why i think we have to study what Steve has patented.

Quote from FaradayEZ on September 26th, 2013, 06:08 AM

But Steve even claims his 9 years working on it after Stan makes his work/inventions superior. That's why i think we have to study what Steve has patented.

I couldn't agree more.

Yadda YADDA

BUILDING HIS CIRCUIt

Quote from securesupplies on September 26th, 2013, 06:47 AM

Yadda YADDA

BUILDING HIS CIRCUIt

Are you?

Quote from securesupplies on September 26th, 2013, 06:47 AM

Yadda YADDA

BUILDING HIS CIRCUIt

Well it is a very simple circuit, but like I mentioned obove what have wave-guides (think microwaves) got to do with anything, and why are there 6 blocks of 4 capacitors and 2 resistors shown in the schematic, when just 1 capacitor and 1 resistor could accomplish the job?

For me, the one glimmer of light in all this is that the barrier-like effect on the SS he talks about would seem to lend credence to the EDLC phenomenon, that myself and HMS are alluding to.

I've since listened to much more of the recordings, and find myself rather perplexed as to why Stephen was not asked more poignant questions about Stan, particularly regarding the buggy that supposedly ran just on water! It just seemed to me that important questions were perhaps 'too conveniently' avoided and much of the conversation revolved around discussing other things. But what bothered me most is that they talk a lot about the future of oxyhydrogen technology and the progress being made, almost as if Stan had not already done it, or at least never made any of the major breakthroughs he claimed. :s

I still believe that there are just too many things that don't ring true, too many holes to poke a stick at and indeed something very suspicious about the whole thing.  And given my gut feeling and my natural distrust of people that I sense are winging it, I can't find it in myself to put any faith in him whatsoever. :-/

Quote from FaradayEZ on September 26th, 2013, 07:32 AM

Quote from securesupplies on September 26th, 2013, 06:47 AM

Yadda YADDA

BUILDING HIS CIRCUIt

Are you?

Break out the soldering irons boys :)

Quote from firepinto on September 26th, 2013, 09:51 AM

Break out the soldering irons boys :)

I'm blind as a bat.  Where is this circuit?  Can someone post the image for reference?

Quote from Farrah Day on September 26th, 2013, 08:29 AM

Quote from securesupplies on September 26th, 2013, 06:47 AM

Yadda YADDA

BUILDING HIS CIRCUIt

Well it is a very simple circuit, but like I mentioned obove what have wave-guides (think microwaves) got to do with anything, and why are there 6 blocks of 4 capacitors and 2 resistors shown in the schematic, when just 1 capacitor and 1 resistor could accomplish the job?

For me, the one glimmer of light in all this is that the barrier-like effect on the SS he talks about would seem to lend credence to the EDLC phenomenon, that myself and HMS are alluding to.

I've since listened to much more of the recordings, and find myself rather perplexed as to why Stephen was not asked more poignant questions about Stan, particularly regarding the buggy that supposedly ran just on water! It just seemed to me that important questions were perhaps 'too conveniently' avoided and much of the conversation revolved around discussing other things. But what bothered me most is that they talk a lot about the future of oxyhydrogen technology and the progress being made, almost as if Stan had not already done it, or at least never made any of the major breakthroughs he claimed. :s

I still believe that there are just too many things that don't ring true, too many holes to poke a stick at and indeed something very suspicious about the whole thing.  And given my gut feeling and my natural distrust of people that I sense are winging it, I can't find it in myself to put any faith in him whatsoever. :-/

I built one stage of the 3-phase wave guide system 2 years ago.

IMO stephen meyer tries to overcome those differences in oscillation behaviour of different WFCs by adding a well defined capacitance sufficient for wave guide pulse forming.
 
he combines wave guide technology as stan did (yes - the slices of the VIC with their stray capacitances - CHOKES - are a wave guide!) with 3-phase driven inside- and outside-tubes to maximize process-active surface area within the container. therefore he needs temperature control.

stripping away 3-phase leaves a VIC plus a parallel capacitor for the WFC.

Fig. 6 of stephen_meyer_USPatent-20050246059 points to the ringing for maximum gas production.

without wave guides radar systems and railguns would never work. but they do ...

shaping the pulses means getting full control about the timing at the electrodes. as larmare correctly states one must get full control about all parameters.


good news ... it´s possible :-)

if there were no full control for the combustion process within a combustion engine there were no cars at all ...

if there were no full control for the hydrogen burning process there had no space shuttles been a single mile above ground ...

... but ...

who is willing to invest that amount of time, expertise and money to get along that way of scientific research?


btw. Stan did. Thank you Stan!


brain-twister: why should anyone invest thousands of dollars for a patent describing nothing than crap? does that make sense???

funny aspect: that pulse forming network discussion has taken place more than a year ago ... any reminders at all?

You can find some information on pulse forming network on page 29 in the WATER FOR FUEL TECH. thread.

Open source and working together?

Are there possibilities to speed things up? Like bussi living near Lamare?
Is the circuit something to lend out for a while?

I always get impatient so i like to look early into speeding up things ;)

Quote from bussi04 on September 26th, 2013, 10:33 AM

Quote from Farrah Day on September 26th, 2013, 08:29 AM

Quote from securesupplies on September 26th, 2013, 06:47 AM

Yadda YADDA

BUILDING HIS CIRCUIt

Well it is a very simple circuit, but like I mentioned obove what have wave-guides (think microwaves) got to do with anything, and why are there 6 blocks of 4 capacitors and 2 resistors shown in the schematic, when just 1 capacitor and 1 resistor could accomplish the job?

For me, the one glimmer of light in all this is that the barrier-like effect on the SS he talks about would seem to lend credence to the EDLC phenomenon, that myself and HMS are alluding to.

I've since listened to much more of the recordings, and find myself rather perplexed as to why Stephen was not asked more poignant questions about Stan, particularly regarding the buggy that supposedly ran just on water! It just seemed to me that important questions were perhaps 'too conveniently' avoided and much of the conversation revolved around discussing other things. But what bothered me most is that they talk a lot about the future of oxyhydrogen technology and the progress being made, almost as if Stan had not already done it, or at least never made any of the major breakthroughs he claimed. :s

I still believe that there are just too many things that don't ring true, too many holes to poke a stick at and indeed something very suspicious about the whole thing.  And given my gut feeling and my natural distrust of people that I sense are winging it, I can't find it in myself to put any faith in him whatsoever. :-/

I built one stage of the 3-phase wave guide system 2 years ago.

IMO stephen meyer tries to overcome those differences in oscillation behaviour of different WFCs by adding a well defined capacitance sufficient for wave guide pulse forming.
 
he combines wave guide technology as stan did (yes - the slices of the VIC with their stray capacitances - CHOKES - are a wave guide!) with 3-phase driven inside- and outside-tubes to maximize process-active surface area within the container. therefore he needs temperature control.

stripping away 3-phase leaves a VIC plus a parallel capacitor for the WFC.

Fig. 6 of stephen_meyer_USPatent-20050246059 points to the ringing for maximum gas production.

without wave guides radar systems and railguns would never work. but they do ...

shaping the pulses means getting full control about the timing at the electrodes. as larmare correctly states one must get full control about all parameters.


good news ... it´s possible :-)

if there were no full control for the combustion process within a combustion engine there were no cars at all ...

if there were no full control for the hydrogen burning process there had no space shuttles been a single mile above ground ...

... but ...

who is willing to invest that amount of time, expertise and money to get along that way of scientific research?


btw. Stan did. Thank you Stan!


brain-twister: why should anyone invest thousands of dollars for a patent describing nothing than crap? does that make sense???

funny aspect: that pulse forming network discussion has taken place more than a year ago ... any reminders at all?

What? :huh:

I think some of you boys are looking at this through rose-tinted glasses. Seeing only what you want to see.

Waveguides are used in microwave technology - where has either of the Meyer brothers ever  spoke about microwaves? And wherever does radar tech. and rail guns come into Meyer's WFC? Come on, get a grip!

You built it? Really? So how did that work out for you? What did you do with it and what did it do?

And as for your brain-twister, there are thousands of patents that aren't worth the paper they are printed on. For some people having a patent is just a big ego trip and worth outlaying a few quid for.

Perhaps you can answer this brain-twister: On the radio recordings, why was Stephen never quizzed on Stan's Volkswagen Buggy, or the purpose of his brother's gas processor or indeed the what the VIC was really all about. Why was his brother's death and the cause not touched on?  All the important things were completely avoided.

Ask yourself this, what if anything did you learn from all those hours of Stephens radio interview? I know what I learned: Bugger all!

Quote from Farrah Day on September 26th, 2013, 02:53 PM

Ask yourself this, what if anything did you learn from all those hours of Stephens radio interview? I know what I learned: Bugger all!

Hmm now you make me feel rotten... :(
I recommended you the interviews, like i recommended the brillouin one on pesn. Don't say you didn't like that one also?

http://www.open-source-energy.org/?tid=428&pid=18634#pid18634

I did put it on later as an edit

direct link:

http://pesn.com/2013/09/16/9602373_Billouin-Interview_on_SmartScarecrow-Show/

Hope this makes it up..  (Brillouin starts at 30 minutes into it)

No offense to the guy doing the interviews but you could tell he had not done a lot of research on the subject,  so he didn't really know what to ask. That was pretty obvious to me.

Quote from HMS-776 on September 26th, 2013, 03:45 PM

No offense to the guy doing the interviews but you could tell he had not done a lot of research on the subject,  so he didn't really know what to ask. That was pretty obvious to me.

I agree, it needed a tougher interviewer, he also sounded a lot like Sterling Allen strangely enough.

Quote from Matt Watts on September 26th, 2013, 10:09 AM

Quote from firepinto on September 26th, 2013, 09:51 AM

Break out the soldering irons boys :)

I'm blind as a bat.  Where is this circuit?  Can someone post the image for reference?

I was just insinuating that people that haven't tried to build anything can give it a try. :angel:

Quote from firepinto on September 26th, 2013, 04:01 PM

Quote from Matt Watts on September 26th, 2013, 10:09 AM

Quote from firepinto on September 26th, 2013, 09:51 AM

Break out the soldering irons boys :)

I'm blind as a bat.  Where is this circuit?  Can someone post the image for reference?

I was just insinuating that people that haven't tried to build anything can give it a try. :angel:

You're nuts, my project outcome would be a nice blob of solder on a workbench...:s

Quote from Farrah Day on September 26th, 2013, 02:53 PM

What? :huh:

I think some of you boys are looking at this through rose-tinted glasses. Seeing only what you want to see.

Waveguides are used in microwave technology - where has either of the Meyer brothers ever  spoke about microwaves? And wherever does radar tech. and rail guns come into Meyer's WFC? Come on, get a grip!

You built it? Really? So how did that work out for you? What did you do with it and what did it do?

...

Farrah,

there are many ways to implement waveguides. one kind of waveguide is the SS tube construction of the WFC itself :-)

at that time of experiments with the patent circuit I decided to gain full control over the pulse generation needed to adopt all timing parameters to the other configuration parts (VIC, EEC, WFC).

results were several different pulse generator applications - microcontrollers of course - I created and described in detail somewhere here at the forum. resulting product was PGen pulse generator. there was little feedback so that I assumed that fellows here were not interested ...

my single phase driver implementation was AC and that meant that I was using solid state power amplifier instead of an alternator. that single part was that much expensive that people here at the forum could not accept such an investment.

all equipment has to be cheap or free of cost ... nope ...

I simply made a step to build a cheaper solid state generator and now I´m done :-)


Farrah, take my references pictural ...

noone here I assume could build a radar system or an ICE on himself.

but it can be done! now ask for the difference between those who can and us here at the forum ...

it´s competence and finance ...


to rate Meyer´s results as scam is so much easier than to admit one´s own lack of understanding in technical implementation ...

I can see lots of talks in threads but little building activities. why???

we can discuss all day and night about pros and cons but one day there must be a next step into implementation.

otherwise it´s all infotainment ... nothing more ...

... circles round ... and round ... and round ... and round ...

Steve Meyers uses Same basic Vic circuit as Stan meyers original!!

looking closley at steve myers patent..

in Fig -4 he has a schematic named "Impedance matching circuit 102"

granted his drawings arent as user friendlys as his brother..yet upon closer observation i noticed the following..he is implementing Stan meyers Vic circuit! there in plain sight...i just never noticed before..
there hiding in all that squible is an inline blocking diode [nte5817] and an inductor coil at {1.7mh}  both on the b+ side and b- electrode.

now a mayor difference is that he implements a neutral electrode...this electrode does not have a diode! it connects strait to phase coil....


here we go this are the similaritys ....

#1  inline diode...

#2 inline inductor on both b+ and b-

#3 circuit does not have an arbitruary ground its power source is isolated inductivley via phase line!

there we have it same basic Vic Circiut ... with more fancy stuff hooked up to it.

Quote from Heuristicobfuscation on September 26th, 2013, 05:32 PM

Steve Meyers uses Same basic Vic circuit as Stan meyers original!!

looking closley at steve myers patent..

in Fig -4 he has a schematic named "Impedance matching circuit 102"

granted his drawings arent as user friendlys as his brother..yet upon closer observation i noticed the following..he is implementing Stan meyers Vic circuit! there in plain sight...i just never noticed before..
there hiding in all that squible is an inline blocking diode [nte5817] and an inductor coil at {1.7mh}  both on the b+ side and b- electrode.

now a mayor difference is that he implements a neutral electrode...this electrode does not have a diode! it connects strait to phase coil....


here we go this are the similaritys ....

#1  inline diode...

#2 inline inductor on both b+ and b-

#3 circuit does not have an arbitruary ground its power source is isolated inductivley via phase line!

there we have it same basic Vic Circiut ... with more fancy stuff hooked up to it.

correct, he's describing VIC.

neutral electrode - not correct, it's part of the dynamics because it's hooked up to a phase coil. it´s all about potential and correct timing.

Quote from bussi04 on September 26th, 2013, 04:46 PM

Farrah,

there are many ways to implement waveguides. one kind of waveguide is the SS tube construction of the WFC itself :-)

.....

to rate Meyer´s results as scam is so much easier than to admit one´s own lack of understanding in technical implementation ...

I can see lots of talks in threads but little building activities. why???

we can discuss all day and night about pros and cons but one day there must be a next step into implementation.

otherwise it´s all infotainment ... nothing more ...

... circles round ... and round ... and round ... and round ...

Ok, so I think we will have to agree to disagree on the waveguide, microwave stuff.

The reason that everybody continually goes around and around in circles is because far too much faith is put in the Meyer brothers. Treat the technical brief as a bible at your own peril. In my opinion trying to build something from their patents is a waste of time and a path to nowhere. We go around in circles quite simply because their science and indeed their electronics simply does not add up. This is why I suggest binning Meyers technical brief and taking a fresh outlook on the whole thing.

If what the Meyers said made half the sense they make out it does, then there would not be all the doubt about their credibility in the first place. They only have themselves to blame if they are seen by many as frauds.

In the pt 5 radio recording at around 19mins, Stephen describes the action of a tuned resonant circuit, but does so incorrectly. Not something I would expect of someone well-versed in electronics and electrical engineering. A small detail, but to me at least, just one of many things he said that raises serious concerns.

People need to start thinking for themselves. Stop trying to copy a Meyer patent that may not even work or may never have worked, and instead design and build for themselves something that does the job they want it to do. And I'm afraid that if you can't do this, what chance have you got of replicating a Meyer patent and fully understanding what it is supposed to do!

One other thing that came out of the interview, was that Stephen categorically stated that Stan was using tap water in his WFCs. So at least that issue can be finally put to bed.

Quote from bussi04 on September 26th, 2013, 04:46 PM

to rate Meyer´s results as scam is so much easier than to admit one´s own lack of understanding in technical implementation ...

I can see lots of talks in threads but little building activities. why???

we can discuss all day and night about pros and cons but one day there must be a next step into implementation.

otherwise it´s all infotainment ... nothing more ...

... circles round ... and round ... and round ... and round ...

Very wise words Bussi
To just blindly write scam without offering any substantial explanation is just nonsense and should be ignored.
As for the building part I have got fresh energy from the recent discussions here, which have been most interesting indeed.
Now I'm about to look a little deeper into the how-to's regarding properly winding a VIC for both my own educational purposes and also for a WFC later on, I think it's money well spent and that it's indeed the only way to turn the outcome of these discussions into working builds and when you fail with your experiments share it with the rest of the forum, get fresh ideas and then back at it again.
I also think sharing your build step by step from start will help steering you in the right direction.
Ultimately though it's through experiments the very real results will show themselves, provided you perform your measurements the correct way that is, just to eliminate false readings, misunderstandings and whatnot.

Btw, is this (attached) the Steve Meyer patent you're talking about?

Quote from Farrah Day on September 27th, 2013, 01:34 AM

One other thing that came out of the interview, was that Stephen categorically stated that Stan was using tap water in his WFCs. So at least that issue can be finally put to bed.

In his dune buggy clip he lists just about any form of water, although IMO he insinuates that it has to be desalinated, filtered and deionised prior to entering the WFC.
I can't remember exactly where it comes from but he also said that his cell works best using distilled deionised water, so for the sake of performing experiments I think one could (should) use that.
At the end of the day though filling up your car with tap water would of course be the ultimate dream here