Hello everyone,

so what is a wave guide and how dose it apply to Stan's work?

well...

Stan talks a lot about a wave guide... so i'm starting this thread to talk about it.

please post your thoughts and links to information (or download it and attach it)

attached is a document about theory and information on wave guides.

also please read the Memo WFC 427 in Stan's birth of a new technology book. found here: http://open-source-energy.org/rwg42985/russ/Patents/S.Meyer-The%20Birth%20of%20New%20Technology.pdf

you see, we need to understand what a wave guide is and how to apply it to this work. so... you smart, well educated folks can start to ponder this idea and how to apply it to what Stan was doing. ( i have been for a while but need more...)

all the best! ~Russ

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on March 24th, 2012, 08:13 PM

Hello everyone,

so what is a wave guide and how dose it apply to Stan's work?

well...

Stan talks a lot about a wave guide... so i'm starting this thread to talk about it.

please post your thoughts and links to information (or download it and attach it)

attached is a document about theory and information on wave guides.

also please read the Memo WFC 427 in Stan's birth of a new technology book. found here: http://open-source-energy.org/rwg42985/russ/Patents/S.Meyer-The%20Birth%20of%20New%20Technology.pdf

you see, we need to understand what a wave guide is and how to apply it to this work. so... you smart, well educated folks can start to ponder this idea and how to apply it to what Stan was doing. ( i have been for a while but need more...)

all the best! ~Russ

Hi Russ.
The 427 memo is quite a read. Although that memo refers to the injectors, my thoughts turn to tube cells in that with people now being able to replicate desired waveforms but finding a challenge to generate the desired level of gas......I am wondering:
To improve the gas production, is there a need to find a calculation on the desired length and inner and outer diameters (gap) of the tube cells that relate to a specific frequency or a harmonic of a frequency? I am thinking this as the way i read it with the 2 pdf's referred to in your post, the tube cells would appear to be a wave guide but i dont know the effect of water being in between a waveguide..

Hey guys as someone who works with microwave transport of IP data i can say that the most basic thing a wave guide does is carry high frequency RF with lower attenuation than straight coax.

i dont understand the principals of why this is the case but its valid.

Example usage would be:

Coming off a ground based microwave transmitter/receiver to a polarity filter adapter that connects to the wave guide, this wave guide (RF Piping basically hah) then runs up the ladder to the top of the tower where it is connectorized and a traditional coax cable is used for the last few feet (wave guide is a bitch to bend .. and can break if you do to much).

What he would be doing with it would be.. interesting .. perhaps he is flooding them with gas and throwing microwave through it.

In the picture with the device i am not sure what its named ( the one Russ just built that is circular, copper wire wrapped continuously around it .. copper piping) .. one of the ones by Stan seemed to have a device with a heatsink in the center.

wild speculation: possible RF being shot into the tube while the gas is in it to excite it ..  .. in theory a copper pipe could be wave guide, and it would excite particles inside the tube i would imagine with enough energy.



i wouldn't take any of that to seriously tho.

Joe

Go here, Chapter 3 page 66 onwards

http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/

Theres a nice explanation of quarter wave/standing wave resonance.

having wanting to build a 'can-tenna' for wifi, i have studied a little about wave guides.

Wave guides aren't just limited to 'conduit' for HF/VHF/UHF.

Thing is with frequency, as i am sure most of us know, the higher the frequency the shorter the wavelength. So for our frequency to be in the audible band, <20kHz, the wavelength is very very long!

With the cylinder inside a cylinder, the formulas are very hard to predict. A lot of things go into this, thickness of the metal will affect the bandwidth, which will attenuate the results. The electrolyte between the cylinders (water) will also affect the capacitance. I think tho that is the way we need to look at how the WFC needs to be built. It needs to be fed the signal as if its RF, with coax.

Here is a good calculator that is mostly inclusive, but i will keep an eye out for one of concentric cylinders.

http://www.wikarekare.org/Antenna/WaveguideCan.html

resonant sound wave to water

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CycFRkWboQU

thanks
geenee

Strange though. The waveguide PDF says that waveguides CONTAIN the E and H fields on the inside and not the outside so, in the EPG, it would seem to me that the magnetic particle accelerator coil would have to not only cause the particles to initially move but also generate a microwave to propagate the E and H fields in the waveguide, which, in turn might keep the particles moving in the loop. That doesn't quite ring true in my mind though because the PDF also stated that the direction of the H fields reverse at half wave intervals although the external coils (pick-up coils?) would surely have some sort of influence on that as well. Seems like the EPG doesn't use microwave frequencies anyway. Doesn't the patent state that if a pulsed DC current is input, that will be the output? And the same for an AC signal?

Quote from cncjoe on August 14th, 2012, 01:56 AM

Strange though. The waveguide PDF says that waveguides CONTAIN the E and H fields on the inside and not the outside so, in the EPG, it would seem to me that the magnetic particle accelerator coil would have to not only cause the particles to initially move but also generate a microwave to propagate the E and H fields in the waveguide, which, in turn might keep the particles moving in the loop. That doesn't quite ring true in my mind though because the PDF also stated that the direction of the H fields reverse at half wave intervals although the external coils (pick-up coils?) would surely have some sort of influence on that as well. Seems like the EPG doesn't use microwave frequencies anyway. Doesn't the patent state that if a pulsed DC current is input, that will be the output? And the same for an AC signal?

yeah. i'm not convened that the EPG is a " Wave Guide" Anyway. its more of a pulse generator... you can see this by the mechanical EPG in the patents before the EPG patents... i think it was intended for creating the pulses for the cells even as a possibility?

~Russ

Well ain't I the dummy then. What patents DO use microwaves then?
Thanks Russ by the way for the link to that PDF.  We make all kinds of waveguides at work but I never knew how they worked. Now I know a little bit more than nothing about them! :D

Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on August 16th, 2012, 03:11 AM

yeah. i'm not convened that the EPG is a " Wave Guide" Anyway. its more of a pulse generator...
~Russ

You might like to read this... found it a while back and thought you guys might like it.  It's not really "wave guide" related... but I think it's related.

http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2011/sep/26/ferrofluid-pump-has-no-moving-parts

Just did some more digging and this is what I've found....
:exclamation: http://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/68673:exclamation:
http://prb.aps.org/abstract/PRB/v84/i10/e104431
http://www.sciencedebate.com/science-blog/magnetic-fluid-pump-no-moving-parts-pumping-ferrofluids-no-machinery

Hy folks,

my thoughts on the "Waveguid Theory" is based on the Memo WFC 425 (Water Fuel Injector, Taper Resonant Cavity)...
I think, this part of the memo explains basically the fuel injector. The waveguide(s) in Memo 427  seems to be different constructional options to get different results out of the injector.

So first I started to studie the Memo 425 and the Injector basics. It says that in the injector electrodes, "voltage zones" wil be created. Further in 427 will be explained that the voltage can "travel" through the injector. However what Stan was explaining with his kind of words...

..we know from the VIC tests, that the voltage in the injector or in the tubes of the WFC is based on the resistance of water, because the circuit will be a short-circuit. And also how can be "voltage zones" with different voltages created on one electrode without isulation? The voltage on an electrode is everywhere the same... :huh:

But then I was remembering on different water spark plug replikations. So the first thing what happen when putting water between the electrodes is electrolyses. Also with the VIC, when enough energy is putted in, the voltage break down to 2 volst or something like that.
So therefor, that the injector is built like a tube cavity, also electrolyses will be created first, (coercive). First, the voltage of the VIC will be in a lower range. After the little amount of water (drops) in the injector is converted into H2 and O2, the resistance of the cavity will be different to the water state.

Because the H2 and O2 Gas has a higher resistance than water, the voltage of the VIC can rise automatically, because there is no short circuit any more. The voltage maybe will rise to an amount of idle state of the VIC. So we know of the Memo 425 that this will be made with the Tri coil assembly. The voltage can rise up to 90.000 volts (Stans words) in a very little time.

Furthermore, the high rising voltage can ionize the H2 and O2 gas. This is also shown in the diagramm of this part of the memo, which seems to be the "step charging" curve, but it is no charging like a capacitor, it is the voltage which is rising over the rising resistance of the electrode gap because of the changin of water to HHO. (attachment).

Normaly a voltage of 10-20kV is enough to ionize the HHO and create a ignition for exploding. But it seems, as higher the voltage is, then more atoms are ionized and the thermal explosiv energy level can be higher, so the energy of the explosion can be controlled by the primary voltage of the VIC.

Also in the voltage wave guide, there is a "new" type of VIC, which looks like a improved version of the memo  425. It seems, that both sides of the cavity are feeded with voltage. So maybe the overall voltage is then 2x90.000V or something like that. (attachment2). The "travelling" of the voltage wave looks for me like a trial of explaining the rising voltage phenomenon. But for me it is not realy coherent.

regards

Helo
Tesla worked with voltage wave guide:

The Oscillating Current Transformer

The oscillating current transformer functions quite differently than a conventional transformer in that the law of dielectric induction is utilized as well as the familiar law of magnetic induction. The propagation of waves along the coil axis does not resemble the propagation of waves along a conventional transmission line, but is complicated by inter-turn capacitance & mutual magnetic inductance. In this respect the O.C. transformer does not behave like a resonant transmission line, nor a R.C.L. circuit, but more like a special type of wave guide.

Its from this page:
http://www.tuks.nl/wiki/index.php/Main/TheOscillatingCurrentTransformer
Here you can find more info about voltage wave guide and dielectric wave  ( in documents about tesla's work on this page)

andy

I was searching around the web, found something.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traveling-wave_tube

But the operating frequencys of such wave tubes are normally very high. (>MHz).
Are there special designes that can lower the amplified frequency?

Maybe someone can find more info about this tubes....

regards

Tesla worked in kHz range with use of voltage wave guide. Meyer mention Tesla in his videos , he can inspired from Tesla work.
andy

Quote from andy on September 6th, 2012, 11:36 PM

Tesla worked in kHz range with use of voltage wave guide. Meyer mention Tesla in his videos , he can inspired from Tesla work.
andy

Hi,

I think Stan used a high frequency AC imposing it over his DC current in his fuelcels, dus producing much more hydrogen.

He used light to ionize his gas and used magnetic waves, coil or RF and always tried to reach the resonance points.

You need resonance to use lesser input and get better output.

So its a matter of finding the frequency's and its a matter of changing polarity quickly to stretche the electrons of the atoms or molecules

And doing it near the reaction cause they don't stay long it that position, maybe longer when you remove the electrons

The outlining of the wave..if its square or round or whatever looks to me to be of lesser importance.

You can use frequencies to get a standing wave between the surroundings, or you use the frequency that is in line with the gas in between the surroundings.

The first thing may group the gas around in a certain way
The second thing acts on the atoms themselves and pulls of electrons

Greetingss..

EZ

when i saw "Russ test high voltage help low dc voltage discharge".

then i think "maybe high voltage ac act like carrier to help dc work best or modulation between high voltage ac and pulse dc then demodulate from natural water(as electronic component R and C) = RC cutoff frequency".

just thought
thanks
geenee

PS.i attached MS11 file about RC filter to learn about water rc low pass filter

Quote from geenee on September 9th, 2012, 09:57 AM

when i saw "Russ test high voltage help low dc voltage discharge".

then i think "maybe high voltage ac act like carrier to help dc work best or modulation between high voltage ac and pulse dc then demodulate from natural water(as electronic component R and C) = RC cutoff frequency".

just thought
thanks
geenee

PS.i attached MS11 file about RC filter to learn about water rc low pass filter

can you please post some hardcopies of your multisim file? I don´t have access to Multisim. Is there a way to simulate it with LTSpice (available free of costs)?

or you make a test by modulate AC signal 500khz and pulse signal 1 khz and demodulate by R and C in parallel.

multisim 11 for student free download maybe work??

thanks
geenee

Found something new:
There is a video of a program to calculate the WFC cells. Is this fake?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ck8hOZ1ocV8

If it is treu, I found something that such a WFC tube can be a dielectric resonator:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dielectric_resonator

Quote from Amsy on October 24th, 2012, 11:57 AM

Found something new:
There is a video of a program to calculate the WFC cells. Is this fake?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ck8hOZ1ocV8

If it is treu, I found something that such a WFC tube can be a dielectric resonator:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dielectric_resonator

Hi Amsy, I uploaded this to our forum a long time ago here
http://open-source-energy.org/rwg42985/jeff_downloaded_from_alex_petty_forum/
you can download it and use it to calculate capacitance of a WFC.:D

Quote from Jeff Nading on October 24th, 2012, 07:24 PM

Quote from Amsy on October 24th, 2012, 11:57 AM

Found something new:
There is a video of a program to calculate the WFC cells. Is this fake?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ck8hOZ1ocV8

If it is treu, I found something that such a WFC tube can be a dielectric resonator:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dielectric_resonator

Hi Amsy, I uploaded this to our forum a long time ago here
http://open-source-energy.org/rwg42985/jeff_downloaded_from_alex_petty_forum/
you can download it and use it to calculate capacitance of a WFC.:D

Thank you!
Ok, so no fake ^^ :D

Found some info again: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavity_resonator#Cavity_resonators
So Stans cavity was not closed on both side. It was an open cavity with a dielectric medium inside. I found no formular how to calculate the frequency of such a "dielectric resonator" like stan it had. (2 tubes, ...)
Stan used the word resonant cavity in his patents very frequently. Reading the International Patent again with an eye on that words. I´m thinking that the international patent was one of the hardest to get. So there is no place for deceptions or something like that. It can be that not only the injectors worked like a waveguide, maybe also his WFC.

That's an interesting observation Amsy. Any ideas how we could test or preform an experiment on this?:D

Quote from Amsy on October 24th, 2012, 10:29 PM

Found something new:
There is a video of a program to calculate the WFC cells. Is this fake?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ck8hOZ1ocV8

The video has been removed... :huh:Has anyone downloaded it?

Quote from Ravenous Emu on October 25th, 2012, 04:49 PM

Quote from Amsy on October 24th, 2012, 10:29 PM

Found something new:
There is a video of a program to calculate the WFC cells. Is this fake?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ck8hOZ1ocV8

The video has been removed... :huh:
Has anyone downloaded it?

Hi Ravenous Emu, if you want the calculator, just go up to post #21 click on the link and download it from our forum, if you want to, thanks, Jeff.:D

Hi Emu,

here are also another Links:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXuVuk0_dHc

If the link doesn´t work, you can search in youtube for "stanley meyer program".

Hi Jeff,

the easiest way to find such a resonating chamber / resonant cavity is the magnetron of a microwave oven. It is also the most popular resonant cavity which is good researched. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavity_magnetron

So if someone will try to use a magnetron, be carefull it is dangerous to your body because of the radiation!!

We know from the international patent, and I think also russ built his cavitys like this, that they are 3inch long, outer diameter of 0,75inch, inner diameter of 0,5 inch. The typical resonance frequency of the cavity was 5kHz. May be with frequency doubling 10kHz .(International Patent)

Unfortunately I don´t know the formular how this can be calculated. Did russ or other members a frequency sweep with the VIC over the cavity? So that different frequencys where used?
Because of the changing effects in the cavity the frequency will change. Therefor the PLL system to hit the right frequency.

Alltough such a cavity is running on frequencys in the Range of Ghz, it should be ok to stimulate a standing wave with harmonics of this frequency.
The wave which is produced in such cavity is an electromagnetic one (like in WLAN). The most content of such wave is an electrical field.
It is reflecting on the inner tube and go back and forth and back and forth. This builds a swinging system, so the resonance effect occurs in the cavity between the tubes.
Normaly such a frequency can be measured with an osci measured over the tubes. The osci must have a very high range (>Ghz). By hitting with one puls it should be enough to se the resonance of the cavity . But an engineer for radar and antenna basics should know this. :D
But I don´t know exactly how it is possible to split water with such a wave.
Stan described it like that in earlier patents. Also in the international patent says, it is an electronic circuit for controlling a resonant cavity / water capacitor.