Faradays heating estimate for 8Xa and Variable Plate Cell

Calculate Water volume (4 in inside diameter)
4”dia, plate height plus 4” water over plates
V=PI()* radius^2*height = 201 cu in

Calculate plate volume (1/4 in plate backer)
V=height*width*thickness*2
V=3*12*(1/4)*2 = 18 cu in

Water volume = total volume – plate volume
Water volume = 201 – 18 = 183 cu in

Calculate lbs of water
1 gal water = 231 cu in, and 1 gal water = 8.35 lbs
Water volume = 183 / 231 = .79 gals
Water weight = .79 * 8.35 = 6.6 lbs of water in container

Calculate how much power goes toward heating the water in the container
Total input power 80V@ 4A = 320W
48700cc/hr  =  48.7L/hr = 0.8117L/min
Watts to make gas  = .8117(L/min) * 140 (W/L/min) = 113.6W
Calculate watts to heat water = Total input power – power to make gas
Watts to heat water = 320 – 113.6 = 206.4W

Calculate water temperature rise in 20 minute run
206.4W = 11.748BTU/min
BTUs in 20min = 11.748 * 20 = 235BTUs
1BTU = raise 1lb water 1degF
Water temperature rise in 20 minutes  =  235 / 6.6 = 35.6degF

If the temperature of the water started at 70degF and ran for 20 minutes then the ending cell temperature should have been at 105.6degF. Reports indicate the cell was cool to the touch, I calculate it should have been warm to the touch.

I know there is a first hand report that documents a demonstration which says how long the cell ran and didn’t get hot, but I couldn’t find it, so I used 20 minutes.

What do you guys think? Did I make a mistake in my calculations or logic?

Quote from adys15 on January 3rd, 2013, 08:46 AM

If it is AC voltage ,yes the water will heat up

Hi adys15,

in my test I used DC voltage. It seems to be equal, what kind of water is used. In destilled water I could cut down the current to 0.2A, but the water took the same time to get hot as tap water. In destilled water, also less HHO is coming out of the cell.

Quote from DanB on January 4th, 2013, 09:03 AM

Faradays heating estimate for 8Xa and Variable Plate Cell

Calculate Water volume (4 in inside diameter)
4”dia, plate height plus 4” water over plates
V=PI()* radius^2*height = 201 cu in

Calculate plate volume (1/4 in plate backer)
V=height*width*thickness*2
V=3*12*(1/4)*2 = 18 cu in

Water volume = total volume – plate volume
Water volume = 201 – 18 = 183 cu in

Calculate lbs of water
1 gal water = 231 cu in, and 1 gal water = 8.35 lbs
Water volume = 183 / 231 = .79 gals
Water weight = .79 * 8.35 = 6.6 lbs of water in container

Calculate how much power goes toward heating the water in the container
Total input power 80V@ 4A = 320W
48700cc/hr  =  48.7L/hr = 0.8117L/min
Watts to make gas  = .8117(L/min) * 140 (W/L/min) = 113.6W
Calculate watts to heat water = Total input power – power to make gas
Watts to heat water = 320 – 113.6 = 206.4W

Calculate water temperature rise in 20 minute run
206.4W = 11.748BTU/min
BTUs in 20min = 11.748 * 20 = 235BTUs
1BTU = raise 1lb water 1degF
Water temperature rise in 20 minutes  =  235 / 6.6 = 35.6degF

If the temperature of the water started at 70degF and ran for 20 minutes then the ending cell temperature should have been at 105.6degF. Reports indicate the cell was cool to the touch, I calculate it should have been warm to the touch.

I know there is a first hand report that documents a demonstration which says how long the cell ran and didn’t get hot, but I couldn’t find it, so I used 20 minutes.

What do you guys think? Did I make a mistake in my calculations or logic?

Your calculation seems to be ok. Depending on how much water he finally put into the basin.

We also should remember, that he found out during testing, that he could also quick heat up water (steam resonator) and even built a prototype for home heating.

Hi everyone.

This is Waseem here. I am a regular visitor of this forum but never participated in any thread because I was not having enough information on the subject. Now because of this platform provided by Russ I have learnt a lot. My sincere thanks and best wishes to all members who are participating here and trying to help each other especially to Russ, Tony woodside, Dynodon, Waqas, Donald and Outlaw who are doing to their best for helping out others in replicating Stan's work.

Basically I am telecommunication engineer and very keen to replicate Meyers work in order to run my car on water to get rid of fuel expenses.

I am trying to replicate 8XA from the following circuit diagram but I am facing following problems. Currently I am using almost specs for cell as defined by Ravi in his document i.e. 9" long tube outside and 10" long tube inside with 1" outer diameter. Gap is 0.63mm.

Schematic is attached about circuit.

1. At 1x and 2x light blinks but at 3x and 4x they almost stays on.
2. After constructing a complete circuit exactly as defined, wires start getting very hot including diode and scr.
3. Even if I take wires out from optocoupler, unit still makes gas but as I said earlier system is getting hot.
4. My variac is also getting hot a lot and even it was about to burn.



Would appreciate if you help me out in replicating this system.

Thanks & Regards,
Waseem

what spec of your wfc is?how many voltage do you use?

my thought is "very hot scr or diode from inrush current at start switch on time or problem about pll circuit ,you said 3x high on time ,8xa must create 50%duty cycle.do you have 7490 on you board? then let check it.about 4x mode is not 50 %duty cycle. "

thanks
geenee

Quote from waseem on May 9th, 2013, 10:50 PM

Hi everyone.

This is Waseem here. I am a regular visitor of this forum but never participated in any thread because I was not having enough information on the subject. Now because of this platform provided by Russ I have learnt a lot. My sincere thanks and best wishes to all members who are participating here and trying to help each other especially to Russ, Tony woodside, Dynodon, Waqas, Donald and Outlaw who are doing to their best for helping out others in replicating Stan's work.

Basically I am telecommunication engineer and very keen to replicate Meyers work in order to run my car on water to get rid of fuel expenses.

I am trying to replicate 8XA from the following circuit diagram but I am facing following problems. Currently I am using almost specs for cell as defined by Ravi in his document i.e. 9" long tube outside and 10" long tube inside with 1" outer diameter. Gap is 0.63mm.

Schematic is attached about circuit.

1. At 1x and 2x light blinks but at 3x and 4x they almost stays on.
2. After constructing a complete circuit exactly as defined, wires start getting very hot including diode and scr.
3. Even if I take wires out from optocoupler, unit still makes gas but as I said earlier system is getting hot.
4. My variac is also getting hot a lot and even it was about to burn.

If you have your cell too small or with very small gap,the water will have little resistance and will draw more curent from all the setup past their ratings.Cheers!

Would appreciate if you help me out in replicating this system.

Thanks & Regards,
Waseem

Quote from geenee on May 11th, 2013, 12:29 AM

Thanks Geenee for your reply :)

what spec of your wfc is?how many voltage do you use?
I am using variac and I can go to as much voltages as I want e.g. I have gone to 100v but water start getting hot along with SCR and blocking diode.

My wfc specs are

Outer Pipe OD : 25.317 mm
Thickness : 14 SWG or 2.032 mm
Outer Pipe ID : 25.317 - (2.032 x2) = 21.253mm
Inner Pipe OD : 19.930 mm
Thickness : 14 SWG or 2.032 mm
Gap is 1.323mm ( 21.253 - 19.930 )
Inside pipe is centered is 1.323/2 = 0.6615 mm on either sides of the inner tube.


my thought is "very hot scr or diode from inrush current at start switch on time or problem about pll circuit ,you said 3x high on time ,8xa must create 50%duty cycle.

Did you replicate this schematic? I have replicated it exactly by using pcb design given by H2Opower in one thread. Does your led gives 50% duty cycle at 3x?

do you have 7490 on you board? then let check it.about 4x mode is not 50 %duty cycle. "

Yes I do have 3 7490 chips on my board, as defined in schematic and I am using h11A1 instead of h11D1 as I could not find it in market. Regarding SCR and blocking diode, I could not find C38M and 1188 but I am using both with almost same specs.


Thanks,
Waseem

Quote from waseem on May 13th, 2013, 01:09 AM

Quote from geenee on May 11th, 2013, 12:29 AM

Thanks Geenee for your reply :)

what spec of your wfc is?how many voltage do you use?
I am using variac and I can go to as much voltages as I want e.g. I have gone to 100v but water start getting hot along with SCR and blocking diode.

My wfc specs are

Outer Pipe OD : 25.317 mm
Thickness : 14 SWG or 2.032 mm
Outer Pipe ID : 25.317 - (2.032 x2) = 21.253mm
Inner Pipe OD : 19.930 mm
Thickness : 14 SWG or 2.032 mm
Gap is 1.323mm ( 21.253 - 19.930 )
Inside pipe is centered is 1.323/2 = 0.6615 mm on either sides of the inner tube.


my thought is "very hot scr or diode from inrush current at start switch on time or problem about pll circuit ,you said 3x high on time ,8xa must create 50%duty cycle.

Did you replicate this schematic? I have replicated it exactly by using pcb design given by H2Opower in one thread. Does your led gives 50% duty cycle at 3x?

do you have 7490 on you board? then let check it.about 4x mode is not 50 %duty cycle. "

Yes I do have 3 7490 chips on my board, as defined in schematic and I am using h11A1 instead of h11D1 as I could not find it in market. Regarding SCR and blocking diode, I could not find C38M and 1188 but I am using both with almost same specs.


Thanks,
Waseem

check the voltage over the wfc if there is a real pulsing of some kHz or if it´s simple 50/60 hz frequency pulses.

often the SCR does not switch due to improper LC calibration.
then of course amps are high and components get hot because there is no real pulse regulation but simple grid frequency behaviour.

better start with a Mosfet.

Quote from bussi04 on May 13th, 2013, 02:59 AM

Quote from waseem on May 13th, 2013, 01:09 AM

Quote from geenee on May 11th, 2013, 12:29 AM

Thanks Geenee for your reply :)

what spec of your wfc is?how many voltage do you use?
I am using variac and I can go to as much voltages as I want e.g. I have gone to 100v but water start getting hot along with SCR and blocking diode.

My wfc specs are

Outer Pipe OD : 25.317 mm
Thickness : 14 SWG or 2.032 mm
Outer Pipe ID : 25.317 - (2.032 x2) = 21.253mm
Inner Pipe OD : 19.930 mm
Thickness : 14 SWG or 2.032 mm
Gap is 1.323mm ( 21.253 - 19.930 )
Inside pipe is centered is 1.323/2 = 0.6615 mm on either sides of the inner tube.


my thought is "very hot scr or diode from inrush current at start switch on time or problem about pll circuit ,you said 3x high on time ,8xa must create 50%duty cycle.

Did you replicate this schematic? I have replicated it exactly by using pcb design given by H2Opower in one thread. Does your led gives 50% duty cycle at 3x?

do you have 7490 on you board? then let check it.about 4x mode is not 50 %duty cycle. "

Yes I do have 3 7490 chips on my board, as defined in schematic and I am using h11A1 instead of h11D1 as I could not find it in market. Regarding SCR and blocking diode, I could not find C38M and 1188 but I am using both with almost same specs.


Thanks,
Waseem

check the voltage over the wfc if there is a real pulsing of some kHz or if it´s simple 50/60 hz frequency pulses.

often the SCR does not switch due to improper LC calibration.
then of course amps are high and components get hot because there is no real pulse regulation but simple grid frequency behaviour.

better start with a Mosfet.

Thanks Germany for your quick response.

Voltage across WFC tube is same to input voltage from variac. If I input 20V, the voltage across tubes are also 20v. I am currently using one tube for experimenting purpose. I am using bifilar coil as described by irondmax on youtube, four layers of wire with 13 turns per layer of 18 gauge wire.

Which mosfet do you recommend please?

Thanks,
Waseem

Kiss
it is very hard work to keep things simple.

I want to write a 1 line or short paragraph on each of these so we have crystal clear descriptions of what each does and purpose of each
for start of each thread in an group effort to focus and simplify.  To speed uptake of new comers

So New Comers know what is going on for each item,
So we can than put each description at top  of each item thread to explain each items goal.

8XA Circuit Stans MAin Patent Circuit  for 8 tube array

9XD Circuit   Stans power control circuit rectify and or supply power

9XB Circuit                                 new version of 8xa with 9xb on it                       

9XA Circuit Card Fully Assembled   5 khz with 5 khz over layed gate

SCR Board and Part Not Assembled switch board for 8xa 8xb 8xa  can use others also

VIC Circuit Voltage Intensifier Circuit   a voltage increaser circuit from 12 v or 24 v to 600v on circuit and many kilovolt in cell
"Gated Pulse Frequency Generator", "Phase Lock Circuit", "Resonant Scanning Circuit", Resonant Feedback", and "Cell Driver Circuit".

Vic Bobbin Style One
Raise Vlotage and restrict amps   the main voltage intensifier circuit primary secondary and 2 chokes ballast ad picup coil
one choke is cutom wind to be fifferent to other choke reason is tube diameter innner and outter

Vic Style 2 Injector  choke inside easy to tune


Dan

New thing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLA3fDP9Ekw

https://youtu.be/SL1PD2IJmp8

Double https://youtu.be/mDx4JZdiLVg

eagle file trace ?

ADVANCING RESEARCH TO MODERN PARTS  EQUIVALENT

Stanley Meyer 9xb chokes inductance measurements
Below is just data not correct it is what we need measured and posted

Re the 2000 Perm E Cores
Used as the Bifilar Wound choke etc 
Need to firm up some measurements of wound cores
Reason is we have now got access to PLanar INductors a more efficient technology
Inductance L1, L2            330µH +- 30%    ?
Rated DC Current           20A?
Operating Frequency      300 kHz.
Peak Current for 1 sec.    60Adc
Dielectric strength (between L1+L2 to core)    500 Vrms
Power losses (With 90°C heat sink)                  2.7W
Ambient temperature      -55°C to +90°C       
Hot spot temperature (With 90°C heat sink)   115°C
Weight 20 gr.
 

===================================================
Last Data I have Found is
Stanley Meyer
760uH chokes with a 2000 perm ferrite core  Bifilar wound
rated 600 v
=================================================
Tony Wood Side using 1.7mH chokes with a steel core.
max current is 500mA-550mA @ 100VDC.
he current down to around 200mA when pulsing at frequencies below 60Hz.

=========================================
 I would like input on this so we can get standard ready to use parts moving from shelf once we match

Dan 

OK we have a 9xb board just posted
gerber here

Enjoy

BOM LIst
9xb parts list
bridged rectifier, not sure of the number.......only needed if you will use a transformer of 7 to 36 volts. use a 12 volt or 9 volt battery other wise
KBU808G bridged rectifier
3 x 1000uf caps
7805 regulator
.1 uf cap
330 uf cap
.01 uf cap
10nf
1k , 10m. 4.7k X2 parts, 220R x 3 parts.(resistors 1/4 w )
4 position dip switch
H11D1 opto
555 timer chip
3 x 74LS90N decade counter
7404 invert chip
red Led
1 100k pot

Project Boxes

Some Times the Simplest Step Begin with the right Parts

We know there was 8xa 9xb 10 xa and a gas processor and vic controller box range
all with Variacs mounted in the front

Any one want to help get the sizes for these boxes

Box 1  Length Width Height  Inches

Box 2  Length Width Height  Inches

Box 3  Length Width Height   Inches


https://www.circuitspecialists.com/search.html?searchQuery=Aluminum+Instrument+Enclosure

do you still need that circuit designed securesupplies ?.. i dont recall what it was about, accept that i can probably do it with my favorite chips of the moment

we have all circuit just a box dimension quiz

yes i see that now, and great job on the youtube uploads today, -  most of meyers circuits i have seen are all 70's and 80's TTL chips, which i particularly like too work with.   no surprises there

going too join you playing with this stuff soon,  spent most of the day building another newman motor with 0.5ohm, instead of 1.7k.  ... ;-)

There is a reason the circuit are based on rf frequencies and knowledge there of

Dan

im hoping that is up for debate,  the most work ive ever done in RF,  depite runnings my own radio station,  is building 1-5 watts tranmitters, -  hoping we can crack this shtie in the low khz,    once i stop using flat dc anyway ;-D

Inviting help to find this part numbers
on Digikey or Mouser.

On off switch
Square red led
Analogue volt meter  0- 150 volt
Analogue amp meter  0 -100 amp
2 position rotary switch
4 position rotary switch
1 round led red chrome seat.

if any one can help source these would be great to have on this thread

Dan

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/visual-communications-company-vcc/1050N1/1050N1-ND/3150877

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/visual-communications-company-vcc/1050QN1/1050QN1-ND/3150875