Have not stopped working on VIC system I have been trying to figure out coils and capacitor relationship while I followed Ronnie’s explanation, I was missing something.  It was not clear to me how he got the 2-volt difference between the inputs to cells.

I built my current set of coils following Ronnie’s post below.  While I have the resistance close on each coil the turns ratio is not right.  I knew that at the time and planned to fix it later as this set was to develop my skill in building the coils.

Interestingly, Ronnie’s instructions focus on resistance of coils and loads only.   He explains elsewhere this is because when resonance is reached the resistance in the system still remains, so to get max power out of system you need to account for it.
As I am planning on only using six cells instead of 10, I felt I need to better understand why the coils are set up as they are.  Ronnie stated you can scale system if you understand how this all works.  So, I have been trying to increase my understanding.  Read several articles and watched multiple YouTube videos most of them showed ideal equations only, but I did find a few that include resistance valves.  Still, I was missing something.
 
Did not find what I needed until I looked at transformer articles.  These had the information on finding turns ratio using impedance equations. This matched up to what Ronnie showed (posted his work below).  The transformer articles also brought up the transformer voltage equations that showed the relationship of the number turns on the primary and secondary coils is directly proportional to voltage on primary and secondary coils.
 
This was one of pieces I was missing, if you know the voltage on primary you also know voltage on secondary and in our case also the voltage on chokes as they are all on same core.  I know the VIC is more complex than that but the voltage difference across the two chokes can be set by number of turns using the turns ratio.  Ronnie then says to take turns off one choke and put it on the other I to set voltage difference.  (Ronnie’s post on this is also below.)

I took me a long time to feel confident number of turns in the Transformer equation for voltage is the same as the number of turns in the transformer impedance ratio.  In fact, the standard notation for the number of turns is explained to not be a ratio.
The reason I was hung up on this is I found I could not measure the voltage difference across the choke so I did not know if I was getting it correct thing as I could not measure results.  I did not understand the transformer voltage turns ratio when I first looked at this.

The thing that bothers me is the impedance turns ration includes all the resistance of all the coils, but it appears the voltage turns ratio 5.567 in Vic is only applied to primary and secondary.  The chokes resistance values are match to secondary with turns adjusted to get voltage difference. 

VIC I built is close as I wound the coils to contain the resistance from Stan’s coils.  As wound the turns ration is too low.  I looked at what it would take to fix this.  Adding more turns to secondary and chokes would add a lot more resistance.  However, if you increase the diameter of primary to reduce the number of turns you can raise the number without changing the resistance.  This will not change resistance balance but will have an effect on impedance balance.

Note:  Below I included thread referenced as it shows the load balance calculation coils.

Ronnie''s Post showing showing load calculations
R.Walker

« Reply #257, on October 30th, 2016, 07:36 PM »Last edited on November 13th, 2016, 02:32 PM
Using Stan's Vic and the numbers Don gave us as an example, I will attempt to show how to impedance match it all.
Question is what is the purpose of Impedance matching?
The answer is Watts in must equal Watts out. (Isn't that right Mr. Watts: clap:)

Let's start with the Primary, I have already show it has 10 ohms of impedance in it and how it is calculated.

Line(Primary) side=10 ohms
12volts/10ohms=1.2amps
1.2amps*12volts=14.4watts

Next we use a transformer (Amplifier) to match the Load side.
we need to know the total resistance of the load side.
Secondary side= 72.4+76.7+70.1+Re78.54+11.5=310 ohms

Now that we have a total resistance of the line side of 10ohms
and a total resistance of the load side of 310ohms

Next we take the 310ohms and 10ohms and use this formula to get the turn ratio.
Ns/Np=sqrt Zs/Zp   sqrt (310/10)=5.567
So we need a turn ratio of 5.567 to 1

We know our line voltage is 12volts We can times this by the turn ratio of 5.567 which is =66.816 Load Voltage
Now we have our load voltage.
Next we calculate the load watts
using formula (66.816 ^2)/310ohms= 14.4 watts

That's how you do it. :bliss:
 
Matt, The 11.5 is the feedback coil.....and yes that is correct the chokes must match the secondary....That's why if you take turns off the L2 they must be added back to L1. In Stan's example secondary is 73ohms close enough, then 76ohm for the L1 and 70 for L2 if you take 3ohms off the L1 and put that 3 ohms back on the L2 you can see they all match to 73ohms. Why does he do this? It's to get the slight potential difference in voltage needed on the chokes. Yea My brain can't keep all this straight, that's the reason for the spreadsheet. Too much math to deal with all at the same time. Now you can see when someone ask me a question, how my brain gets all scrambled.

Ronnies post about scaling below

I have never seen anyone totally explain his post below.   Elsewhere he posted a circuit diagram that showed the 10 cells as 10 resistors in series with a value of 78.54 ohms (picture below).

Not sure what to do with information as he repeatedly stated this is not a resistance number but the dialectic value of water in the cell.  So, I am not sure what to change for only 6 cells.   Does this mean we should redo the impedance turns calculation using all ten cells? 

In the case of capacitors when you have 10 caps in series the total value is 1/10 value of 1 cell.

I expect it would be desirable to keep total surface area the same but I am not sure.

Re: Stans VIC finally reverse engineered and ready to build.
« Reply #13, on December 3rd, 2015, 04:23 AM »Last edited on December 3rd, 2015, 04:40 AM

Nav, as you reverse engineer the VIC transformer, I would like to give you a very important hint. At the same time, you must reverse engineer the CELL at the same time. If you don't, the reversed engineered VIC will be useless as you have seen in the past that everyone has tried to replicate. Keep this number (10) in the back of your mind at all times while you’re reading and doing your research. Stan used (10) Cells in series with his VIC for a very very important reason. No one will ever be able to scale the VIC and Cell up or down unless they stumble upon why (10) cells were used in series. Just keep (10) in your mind at all times, it is a very important number while you’re doing your impedance matching research. This is one of the most useful post I have ever posted, and will determine if you or anyone are successful or not.

Thank you Earl

Dan's Comment ,

Please consider this  in the testing as with solar cells it stops total collapse of production if one cell shorts.

1 Due to inner and outer resistance of different diameter of tube sets (inner Outer) batter if in cell Pairs (inner and outer) x2
it balances the resistance.  Provided that the metals and tolerance are matching or close to matching and water condition consistent to both.

2 IF in Series Wiring if one cell in 10 expires , shorts or experiences excess bubbles impurities or dryness
 the circuit will collapse production of all cells like what happen to Christmas lights when 1 globe goes down all go down,
stated for those following.. To Avoid this we can Test or use a Similar circuit to wiring solar cell on solar panel.
 with a blocking and bypass diode.  I have attached Drawing of this

4 I mention this now as we have found that trying to ramp and compound voltage held on the DBD  Dielectric barrier of the cell to create voltrolysis can be shorted /stopped easily and only a true obsessed person can see that event if watching cell for years to see it. if any one cell is unstable due to bubbles which can vary depending on how much care is taken with water conditions temp and volatility, if can stop cell reaching resonance or optimum state of production at a stable capacitance.  This of coarse aid the production during gate or in off time.

5 Ronnie Did hint as air/ bubbles  change in the cell gap, cell voltage character changes
. As More Bubbles Present in Water/Cell

I am re reading your post to see if I have other things to add

DD

Thanks, I recall seeing this before though I would most likely forgot to add them.

Basicly a couple of couple of simple questions

For 10 cell in power balance do you use 78.54 or 785.4 for cells.  Ronnie was asked this question but he never really answered directly though he implied it should be 78.54.  I am assuming 78.54 as that is a much better match for Stan's VIC.

Give that is correct what needs to be changed to scale down from 10 cells to 6?

I am also aware I need to address the impedance of the coils and cells.

Earl

 The cell water bath type and cell pairing effects this
i will check the readings we did again