no output Q doesn't need a 10k resistor to ground.
but the inverted A input on pin 11 needs a 10k to ground (instead of the 10k to V+ which I have on the scope shot)

indeed the pin 11 of hef 4528 needed a 10k to ground.
I removed the 10k from the Q output on 5
and now it fully works.
green in the output Q of the first delay, yellow the Q output for the Bmosfets.
purple again, the A mosfet signal

FINALLY
pfew
this took a lot from me.
tomorrow if the sun shines I'm taking a day of, and walk in nature to refuel.

next phase can now me done, which is testing the B mosfet and see how that all works!
 EXCITING

The PCB I now designed has 2 4017, but in theory with the 4 channel AND gate 4081 I can hook up 5 4017.
This is a bit much for what I need. enough for now.
RELAX mode activated

INTERESTING SPACING

in this video instead of using the 4081 AND gate IC,
he uses a totem pole with 2n3906 pnp and 2n2222 npn transistor, and 2x 51 ohm resistors.
That is probably even cheaper and less complex to build taking up less space.
worthy for my pcb build.

https://youtu.be/kLMGdsXeJiY

I need a new desktop with more room!

and a cd4050 for 1 in 3 out buffer

only powering the 12V logic circuits. No PSU to coils yet:

This is the gate signal of the B Mosfets in green
and the A mosfet signal in blue

delayed B signal turns on right after A turns off (where impulse would be)
and B  turns off right before A turns on again.

A mosfet has max amount of cycles right now to create impulses that create the DC offset.

this was set at 100kc/s so the circuit seems to works.

I also already saw a small DC offset when I pumped some power into the coils.
But first I need to tune for a proper impulse on L2

9V 0.22A input 152 kc/s LMD
C2=62nF C3= 11nF
yellow, is L2 impulse
green is B mosfet Gate
orange L3-L4 junction
purple blue is A mosfet square wave.

scr259 is without the B mosfet attached. all as expected
scr258 is with B mosfet connected to ground on drain, and C2 L2 junction on source. rest is the same
I see a lot of ringing with the B mosfet.
B is only on during 1 of 9 pulses of A, Like in the previous post

No impulse. NO DC build up.

My first thought is, B body diode is wrong. but no. its blocking the negative voltage to ground from source to drain.
So... What is going on here?
B mosfets work...

I can even see from the L2 yellow, where the B mosfets turn on (horizontal) after which the orange L3 reaches its highest amplitude. but no DC build up...

maybe retune the B mosfet, for shorter duration, and a bit later.
and check if the mosfets work properly. I just build them, never tested before

maybe a diode is needed at the source of the B. dont like that. it would be killed soon with B conducting.
but I do wonder if the mosfets capacity is playing tricks here.
or is the frequency simply to high??

I barely see impulses on scr258 just some bums, and after the horizontal where B is on, there first is ringing, then a small begining of an impulse, then the next cycle, there is no impulse or ringing at all!

its like L2 is ringing on the sub octave. it has slowed down, so deffinitly an increase of capacity

OK I tuned up in frequency to 158kc/s and now it shows what I want to see,
except... for the dc discharge.
It looks like the B mosfets dont even open up

I used low power levels for low voltages. 0.16A 7.6V input

inpulse on yellow is visible, and the DC offset is also present.
but no discharge!
why are the B mosfets not switching?

oh wait! I did't connect them to the c2 L2 junction.
duh... good morning :P

ok, same setting but, now with the source of the B mosfets connected to C2/L2
I did 2 tests, with 2 differnent power settings. somewhere around 4,4V for the first test and 11V input for the second test.

the green is the gate
the yellow is the source (at L2 c2)

so mosfet should switch.

but again, all the noise...
I think it is due to the gatedrive capacitors, that start ringing, or the capacity of the mosfets.

Even the impulse is not present while it was before. loads of ringing.
This is a BIG problem.

I Think, Im going to rebuild the setup, and use negative impulses again, and a positive DC offset.
Because then I have the drain connected to C2 L2, without the gate drive caps.

Also. I should first test with just one B mosfet
I now have 2 B mosfets in parallel. which doubles their capacity

ok this is with just one B mosfet.
looks the same to me.

Going to rebuild, and use positive dc, with negative impulse, and B mosfet drain to C2/L2
(so the source caps wont cause problems)

rebuilt the setup again, ready for testing with
positive dc offset
and negative impulse.
drain of B mosfets to c2/l2

what a mess

7V and 0.1A DC input PSU
158 kc/s

B source is now grounded, so B gate is fairly clean (green)
but... L2 yellow is a mess. I should push up the power, to see if it cleans up.
also played a bit with the B pulse width. but gate starts ringing, so I should check if the source/ground also rings.

not as I want it. but hey... its a start

an you mark in red the BEMF event on that scope shot?

Quote from securesupplies on February 2nd, 2023, 07:52 AM

an you mark in red the BEMF event on that scope shot?

right after the  blue purple square wave turns low

ok, if I make the Bmosfet gate pulse (green) very short in duration, then my impulses return.
L2 (yellow) is still very noisy.
but so is the gate, which means my earth is literally ringing. sounds nice, but isn't. So instead I will discharge into C4 which has a much larger capacity.
I also need to fix my delay circuit, as it picks up much to much noise, since these bare wires are antennas.
since the basics do work, I think it is interesting to look further into this.

What bothers me mostly, is that the DC offset, stays the same, when the B mosfet switch is opened up again.

But hey! it works, the concept is good. just need to refine, clean up tidy up. as I get false triggers and noise
order some pcb's, and use shielded wiring (coax).

I will also incorperate a cd4050 buffer (or cd4049 inverting buffer). since I am splitting the signal 3 times, which degrades the quality of the pulses.

maybe also nice to put the delay circuit in a faraday box.

oh. and... as another option, I might need to try to discharge C6

to me it looks like a ring ( electron bounce)  in the coil after bemf trigger point
have you put large caps on the with a 9xd to condition power  for use.

Instead of c2 discharge to ground,which puts L1 in the discharge path,
I will directly discharge c2,
by placing the B mosfets parallel to C2.
so directly over it! BANG!

this will also draw a large current from C6 through L2 which will amplify the resonance.

Circuit design of the pcb is almost done.
I will not use the totem pole transistors, but instead keep the AND gate.
this way, if needed I can make an even longer delay than the 17 pulses I can now make.

 longer delay, is more time to charge the dc back up. higher voltage is bigger kick

I also definitely need to put fans on my B mosfets

I feel very excited about this and am very curious about how this will play out!

the more the pulse speed the more bemf to capture.

Quote from securesupplies on February 4th, 2023, 09:33 AM

the more the pulse speed the more bemf to capture.

nope that's not how it works

not yet at least lol

Quote from securesupplies on February 5th, 2023, 03:14 AM

not yet at least lol

its not about capturing the BEMF, its what you do with it.
I already capture it, to create a dc offset in L2 primary.
and I also use it to bring the L4 extra coil into resonance.

but I expect the biggest fun to start when I discharge that dc offset!

today I finished designing the delay pcb,with a total of 24 optional delay steps.
bufdered outputs, for all the mosfet gate drivers involved.
based on three 4017, one 4081 and a 4049 IC
took a lot of time and work.
I hope it is flawless.

they are ordered, so now I can continue testing with the prototype, and see how fast the dc charges back up after c2 is discharged.

as i mentions the trifilar does that the rate of pulse to recharge from bemf is what power up the coils capcitence into a futher load bank but hey , I think you can get it done you way too . it just comes now to performance and rate of power your creating and tik tok or a brrrrt all equals power made into caps and load bank  World is buildign things are a extrordinary rate.

DD

scr271 shows the (green) B mosfet pulse signal once every 8 impulses (yellow)
This is with the B mosfets, parallel connected to C2. with the drain to the C2 L2 side, and source to C2 L1 side.
I disconnected the signal from the gates.
orange shows the DC offset, on L2 at the C6 side.

once I connect the signal to the gate of the parallel B mosfets, the signal looks like scr270.
DC offset is less high, due to not having proper higher voltage impulses on yellow.

I fear this prototype is misfiring the B mosfets. which kills the impulses.

At least, now I can see the L2 resonant freqeuncy is unchanged. which is good. But for proper testing I will need to wait for the PCB.
So I will check my part supplies, and make sure I got everything in stock for when the PCB's arrive, which should be next week.